On the road again..... (Maxwells)

[nokidsmom]

Oh yeah. Steve is a Boehner-level crier. Do you guys remember when he and Teri had another family over to the house years ago, and while they were singing hymns after dinner Steve accidentally glanced at the mother of the other family right when she happened to glance at him, and he almost cried because he was so upset that she might have thought he was sneaking a peek at her boobs? He told his readers that that her husband would answer for this sinful affront on judgement day. It was all that guy's fault that Steve got upset because he let his wife go out in a shirt that showed her shape and God was going to punish him for it. It definitely wasn't Steve's fault for making a big deal out of nothing or for not keeping his eyes to himself.

I wasn't around for this. WTF? :shock:

[freejugar]

dry crust? wtf :evil-eye:

[Eternalbluepearl]

Taco Bell vs cracker punishment?!! They all look so darn happy in their photos, I honestly can't imagine a Maxwell misbehaving.

[sparkles]

I wasn't around for this. WTF? :shock:

Aaaaand, here you go!

Modesty

Awhile ago, we had a Christian family over for dinner. It had been a most enjoyable evening, and after dinner we gathered in the living room to sing and listen to Christopher play a few hymns for us on the piano. I was sitting on the floor by the fireplace and looking across the room to the hallway opening, where the piano was located. The wife of the other family was sitting on the edge of the loveseat, putting her almost directly in my line of sight to see Christopher.

She was rather conservatively dressed except for a loose fitting top with a medium neckline. She was sitting with her baby on her lap, and then she bent over to set the child on the floor in front of her (She was now directly in my line of sight.). As she set the child down, she looked across at me. To my horror her top hung open, and it would have appeared to her I was inappropriately looking at her. I immediately closed my eyes and turned away, but I was never so humbled in all my life. I honestly could have wept right there.…

…The husband is responsible before God for his wife and for her purity. "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." (Eph. 5:23-28) Could Scripture be more plain about the husband’s role in guarding the purity of his wife?…

…It blesses my heart to have my wife and oldest daughter bring me new clothing for my opinion. I have not mandated that they must; it is that they desire that their clothing be pleasing both to me and the Lord Jesus. I know this whole subject is a personal and sensitive issue. It is my desire that no ones feels judged or condemned by this, but I pray that I may spur each dad to own this area of responsibility, to study the matter, take it before his Lord and then to present it to his family.

web.archive.org/web/19990921085137/http://www.titus2.com/Corners/frame1.htm

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Sprocket went to a Maxwell conference session last September and reported back to FJ in this thread: http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12884 If a Maxwell conference report thread is created as someone suggested above, Sprocket's must go in there as well.

I've read that before but it's always good to reread. Great insight. Sarah, in her thirties and she's never even had a friend :(

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Steve cried on each separate excursion. ...Steve began to weep aloud, I think when he was reading a power-pointed e-mail from a mother who felt she was losing her kids' hearts. It was amazing to see a grown man turn on the waterworks like that.

:violin:

Reminds me of William Hurt in the 80's film "Broadcast News..."

[copper]

Oh, the modesty story from Steve. Yuck, yuck, yuck. It sounds like the kind of story an offender makes up ahead of time to assure others of their innocence.

[Palimpsest]

This just in from Mr P by email. I'd asked him last night if Steve had talked about hitting during Family Bible Time.

He said, no. Posting the email with permission:

Not only did Steve not say anything about corporal punishment, but he said the following, which I only just now remembered.

"Don't be angry with your children. If you're angry when correcting them, they will rebel against you, and that's the surest way of leading them to hell," or words to that effect.

Of course, rather than giving him some credit for this, my cynical thought is that there are more book sales in helping people not to be angry [to preclude the need for anger by perfect scheduling and management] than there are in sanctioning righteous anger.

Mr P has a very valid point on the merchandizing.

I wonder, though, because Steve reminds me a lot of my father (although my father was almost a teddy bear in comparison to Steve) and other people posting here about John Maxwell and showing other evidence.

Steve is a very angry person. Has the rage in Steve made him frightened of beating children because he's afraid of losing control? Or has he lost control once or twice and now preaches anger control? Was this the cause of the split with Pearl? I think the Maxwells have beaten their children, but it is not their message now.

My father stopped corporal punishment with us (my brother and me) after he lost control once with me and went to potentially very identifiable child abuse levels. If enquiring minds want to know, I played a scale wrong on the piano and my father was a very talented musician. Not only did the physical punishment cease after that episode, but so did the piano lessons for me. Thank god. I was 7. I have not touched a musical instrument since. But no sympathy needed, thanks. I've dealt with it in therapy. :)

I could just be projecting about Steve. But still.

[lilith]

Taco Bell vs cracker punishment?!! They all look so darn happy in their photos, I honestly can't imagine a Maxwell misbehaving.

If I recall correctly, the fight that led to the boys being left in the car with crackers was about wether cats were better than dogs.

They really tackle the contentious issues in Maxhell.

[DefraudedByPlaid]

If I recall correctly, the fight that led to the boys being left in the car with crackers was about wether cats were better than dogs.

They really tackle the contentious issues in Maxhell.

Are you effing kidding me???

The sad thing is, I know you're not.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Are you effing kidding me???

The sad thing is, I know you're not.

Honestly, the topic of the fight doesn't seem that shocking for any family. Little kids tend to confuse preference and fact sometimes, and get very defensive about their favorite color or cartoon or whatever being THE BEST ONE EVER. :lol: I can see this leading to a bigger sibling fight. Of course, with the Maxwells, there's no way to know if it was something like that and simply got out of control, or whether one of the boys just raised his voice or something. :think:

[johnhugh]

Thanks Sparkles for posting the 'Corner'. I've seen it mentioned on here a few times but never read it.

Stevie wrote:

I know this whole subject is a personal and sensitive issue. It is my desire that no ones feels judged or condemned by this

But you've written a whole 'Corner' judging Mr Hussey for his helpmeet's choice of a top. :angry-banghead:

I love how Mrs Hussey was sitting on the "edge of the love seat" Was she giving Stevie the come on with "get an eyeful of these" as she bent over whilst he was watching Chris her, Or was Stevie looking at her hoping she would bend down and he would sneak a peek? Didn't Stevie have issues with learing at breasts before when he caught himself looking at a woman in a tight top in church? Didn't this result in them starting up the elderly church at the elderly home?

How do they get on when they see defrauding woman on their rare trips to the outside world. There must be woman in low cut tops at the Zoo or when 'friends' bless them with a meal at a restaurant. Do they have a 'Nike' call sign like the Duggers I wonder...

[thoughtful]

Awhile ago, we had a Christian family over for dinner. It had been a most enjoyable evening, and after dinner we gathered in the living room to sing and listen to Christopher play a few hymns for us on the piano. I was sitting on the floor by the fireplace and looking across the room to the hallway opening, where the piano was located. The wife of the other family was sitting on the edge of the loveseat, putting her almost directly in my line of sight to see Christopher.

Steve was disappointed -- clearly he sat on the floor because he's a leg man, and was hoping for a look up her skirt. He was just bummed that he saw boobs instead.

Oh, and you used "awhile" wrong, Steve.

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/a-while-vs-awhile/

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Dangers of Sports

Nathan and Christopher were great baseball players. They loved to play about as much as we loved to watch them. The season began in late February and ended mid-summer when the All-Stars series was over. Unfortunately, we realized that those things that were needful and excellent in developing men of God, according to our biblical goals, were pushed out due to practices and games. We were trading time in God's Word as a family for ungodly peer influences and the boys being under the authority of coaches. For us it became clear that organized sports were opposed to us achieving our goals in raising our children.

We would encourage each family to evaluate your goals and pray long and hard before allowing your children to participate in sports. Even if you were able to keep your child from all the negative peer pressure, do you desire to give them the appetite for something that will consume hours and hours of their time as an adult? Most adults don't play on a team, but tehy do spend considerable amounts of time watching it on television. Why foster an appetite that will have no eternal benefit?

There is another danger in sports that can cause you to lose your child's heart - the coach. It is a fact that those under a coach's authority are highly influenced by him. In other words, the hearts of the team members are drawn to their coach. Even if the coach is a positive role model, if your child's heart is pulled to him, is is being drawn away from you. When that happens, your ability to guide your child's life is potentially diminished. Why allow this?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I was asked about other pastimes that many Christian families spend their time participating in such as board games, non-organized "friendly" basketball, football, and volleyball games or even spelling bees. Are they wrong or beneficial? I suggest each dad evaluates them based on Scripture and family goals. For example, in light of 1 Corinthians 10:31 which says, "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God," I ask myself these two questions concerning the activity: "Is there nothing better to do with the time? What appetites might be developed?"

[anjulibai]

Something I noticed when watching the Olympics last year was the number of people (particularly the runners) that would pray before and after their competitions, and that, when interviewed, would give thanks to God for helping them through the competition (whether they won or not).

Wonder what Stevhovah would say to them.

[Mary C Doates]

Yes, thinking about DEATH is a much more appropriate way for children to spend their time time than, say, having fun. The Maxwells make the orphanage in Jane Eyre seem like Party Central.

[uber frau]

Something I noticed when watching the Olympics last year was the number of people (particularly the runners) that would pray before and after their competitions, and that, when interviewed, would give thanks to God for helping them through the competition (whether they won or not).

Wonder what Stevhovah would say to them.

Probably that handy text where Jesus says, "not everyone who calls to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven". Incidently, Jesus was talking to the guys who turned religious observance into a burden and judged everyone else who didn't do the same there. Oh, the irony...

[thoughtful]

Yes, thinking about DEATH is a much more appropriate way for children to spend their time time than, say, having fun. The Maxwells make the orphanage in Jane Eyre seem like Party Central.

[Mary C Doates]

Excellent! Note the slightly manic look in Helen Burns' eyes, a Maxwellian trait.

[Phyllis Styne]

I may have reason for optimism w/r/t the Maxwell reversal children. Went back to my write-up of the session I attended and was reminded that the most striking parts of the evening were the two mistakes the Maxwells made and how they reacted to them. Just for review, the second flub was when Teri flubbed her lines and exhorted listeners to "be lovers of pleasure." She realized her mistake immediatley and fell silent and kind of cowered before Steve, who took several moments longer to get what was going on. Eventualy he gave her some kind of signal and they continued on.

The first was when Steve, in mid-pitch and alone downstage, turned upstage to pick up his Bible and it wasn't there. He froze, then showed obvious incomprehension and frustration. Memory's hazy but almost sure he called for Sarah, who arrived in a doorway behind the audience, looked shocked and turned to go search. As Steve hobbled along in his lines, suddenly one of the boys - either John or Joseph, since he wasn't wearing glasses - strode in from a hallway, grinning widely at the audience, holding a Bible rather aloft triumphantly. He handed it to Steve, who visibly relaxed and picked up on his spiel again. John or Joseph strode off the stage, still grinning toward the crowd, as a few folks applauded.

It only occurred to me today: Did oen of them misplace the Bible intentionally, knowing it would throw dear old death-dependent dad off his game and cause him elevated heart rate? Is there by any slim chance some humor or even - my heartbeat increases at the following - some rebellion in the ranks?????

I can only hope.

[YPestis]

I think the turning point for me with the Maxwells was their "Keeping Our Children's Hearts" book. Before, I thought of them as your normal crazy fundie family with some weird ideas but more classed up than the Duggars. After reading of the dangers of "developing appetites", banning anything that may resemble FUN and deriding "outside" (i.e nonsibling) friendships....I had a WTF moment.

It was then that I figured out the Maxwells were in their own special category of craziness. It baffled the mind that so-called devout Christians thought childhood friendships were corrupting and useless. Their list of allowed activities felt like it was developed for prisoners rather than children. The Maxwells had decided even innocuous activities and books, however inoffensive, were banned if they were not "edifying". Silly stories and nonproductive activities were a waste on their precious children's earthly time because they taught no Biblical lessons nor increased productivity.

I still remember Steve bragging about how his kids didn't "hang out" but rather did "fellowship". I guess just chilling with your friends may led to horrible things like re-examining and comparing one's life to others.....

From what I can tell, the Maxwells feel a sense of urgency for their time on earth. Every book he's written stresses stripping out this and that in order to "save" time. I could forgive such a spartan approach to life if they spent their free time doing real Christian work----you know, feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, giving to others. Instead, they spend it on Bible time and preaching and selling their wares. It seems all very self-serving.

I believe Teri and Steve are true-believers. I think they believe their preaching really do saves lives (in the afterlife). However, the fact that they make off so handsomely gives them an ulterior motive. Their preaching on feeding "appetites" and turning anything into an idol rings false in my ears. Steve has already turned his family ministry into an idol. It's no longer about helping others (was it ever?). It's now about preaching and selling. If a hungry person came to their door, the Maxwells would ignore the man's plea for food, instead "filling him spiritually" with their ear piercing screeching/preaching. In this way, the Maxwells follow a long line of corrupt zealots who perpetuate abuses in the name of God. After all, people who rape, kill and steal in the name of God also say they are doing it out of concern for society's spiritual wellbeing. The fact they make off with money is just a side effect....

Anyway, the Maxwells were my gateway fundies so I'll always have a soft spot for their craziness. Even after learning of so many other types of fundies, they still stand alone in my eyes.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

From what I can tell, the Maxwells feel a sense of urgency for their time on earth. Every book he's written stresses stripping out this and that in order to "save" time. I could forgive such a spartan approach to life if they spent their free time doing real Christian work----you know, feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, giving to others. Instead, they spend it on Bible time and preaching and selling their wares. It seems all very self-serving.

Yep - that's the same exact sense I get too. The whole thing is utterly based on that "where will you go when you die?" question. Someone (read: Steve-O) is terrified of death. That maybe even was there before being born again, I don't know, but the whole sense you get reading their stuff is that they're scrambling around trying to be worthy of going to heaven.

It's weird though, they occasionally make what strike me as incredibly arrogant posts where they assume that of course THEY are going to heaven, but in most of their actions and prescriptions ("save time for more Bible reading! Every waking moment must be in active service to religious goals!") they seem unsure of it.

I'll happily admit I'm not any sort of religious and my background is very different from the Maxwells (hence why they fascinate me maybe).

But with a lot of very religious people, I might not believe in the specifics of their religion at all but I can see common threads in it that are just good humanistic ideas too and how the religion is inspiring them to do various work for other people and make a difference in the world in a good way, to the point that inspires a lot of respect in me, I would never measure up. Amazing people who give of themselves all the time in service to others, doing all kinds of things that the "market" will never reward (and are necessary). But the ones who just preach and preach about how you need to study scriptures and guard your own heart and isolate yourself lest you become impure, not so much.

[Shoes Grace]

Yes, thinking about DEATH is a much more appropriate way for children to spend their time time than, say, having fun. The Maxwells make the orphanage in Jane Eyre seem like Party Central.

"Oh, Teri, when you put Pepsi and animal crackers, instead of green smoothies, into these adult children's mouths, you may indeed feed their vile bodies, but you little think how you starve their immortal souls!" -Mr. Stevelhurst

[thoughtful]

Note the slightly manic look in Helen Burns' eyes, a Maxwellian trait.

But she's missing the full-toothed smile -- possibly because Elizabeth Taylor was a better actress than the Maxwells.