On the road again..... (Maxwells)

[twin2]

And of course, Father's Day was a special day. Let me guess...bible time, individual prayer time, a special family bible time to honor their leader, maybe their hosts made them burritos for dinner, and dear old dad allowed them all to have three animal crackers for dessert in honor of HIM. Then, more bible time and some special family time.

Isn't everyday Father's day in the house of Maxwell?

[Jezebel]

New blog. Boy, this other family is sure lucky getting so much free labor to paint their house! Sarah is amazed it is light at 4:30 am! I know they are early risers, but 4:30?! They may start home tomorrow (Wed) or Thurs.

I'm on the opposite side of the country, but at roughly the same latitude, and yeah--it's light out by 4:30am at this time a year (and doesn't get fully dark until around 10:00pm). I'm not an early riser, but most mornings I awaken around 4:00 because the birds are making such a racket they wake me up. But since I don't live in Maxhell, I'm free to roll over and go back to sleep.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I wasn't here when the Maxwell "friend" came. What did they have to say that was interesting? I can't search the forum because Maxwell is too common a word lol.

[WonderingInWA]

I'm on the opposite side of the country, but at roughly the same latitude, and yeah--it's light out by 4:30am at this time a year (and doesn't get fully dark until around 10:00pm). I'm not an early riser, but most mornings I awaken around 4:00 because the birds are making such a racket they wake me up. But since I don't live in Maxhell, I'm free to roll over and go back to sleep.

I'm in Seattle, too. Damned birds at 4am! They were actually singing last night before it was even light! What's funny is the birds burn themselves out by around 6am and go back to sleep, but we don't get the luxury...

[Lillybee]

Couldn't the girls wear mid-calf skirts when they are climbing ladders? It looks very unsafe.

[thoughtful]

You are very welcome. :)

I'll keep the survey out of recycling until I get a chance to write it up. It might not be today.

How about photos of it?

[deborahlynn1979]

You just KNOW there's something really, really dark in Steve's past. I bet he slept with a bunch of whores or something while in the military, or engaged in some kind of ultra-kinky sexual behavior that he's trying to absolve himself of. It just feels like he has a major secret in his past that has lead to his extremism.

[WonderingInWA]

You just KNOW there's something really, really dark in Steve's past. I bet he slept with a bunch of whores or something while in the military, or engaged in some kind of ultra-kinky sexual behavior that he's trying to absolve himself of. It just feels like he has a major secret in his past that has lead to his extremism.

I've always thought that, too. He's got a past he will never talk about. But it might be a good lesson for the people he is trying to convert, so he really should use it as a teaching tool.

[DefraudedByPlaid]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think that Teri does like being organized by Steve, lists and oven timers. She has turned over all control and absolved herself of all responsibility. That freedom from responsibility may well have helped with her depression. Or perhaps menopause helped too. It does sometimes.

I agree about relinquishing responsibility. When your life is governed by fears of not being perfect enough (because the teachings of Jesus are all about perfectionism and not mercy/grace, doncha know?), it makes sense as a coping mechanism. I say this as someone who has had a lifelong struggle with semi-OCD/perfectionism and a sometimes crippling obsession with trying to do the right thing, always. Thanks be to God, my parents didn't seize this as an opportunity to control me and have patiently encouraged me over the years not to worry about being so perfect. But Teri's headship is not so patient, or so self-sacrificing as to inconvenience himself for her good.

By giving over all control, Teri does not take the risk of making a mistake, and she fulfills what Steve asks of her and what they both perceive to be her biblical role.

Steve is obsessed with perfectionism as well - but as a man, his role is different. By virtue of being leader of his family, there is almost something inherently virtuous about making decisions for his wife and children. We see this from other fundies in their counsel to wives and children: basically, even when your headship is wrong, you give glory to God by obeying said headship, while headship gives glory to God by asserting his manhood (one of Dougie's favorite words), with manhood being inherently closer to God-given perfectionism than womanhood.

Sorry to run on and on...but in a word, Teri gets to avoid the risk of being imperfect by totally and completely ceding control to Steve; Steve gets to avoid the risk of being imperfect by totally and completely asserting control over his family, because he is inherently the most perfect of his family (you know, being not only the headship but also being...Steve Maxwell).

[DefraudedByPlaid]

If he really wanted to, he'd manage it, or get one of his devoted minions to act as a mole on his behalf.

I think they make more sense in SOTDRT. That's the first place I go if I start reading a thread on a fundie family I don't know, and the personal accounts would be a great complement to the existing descriptions, which are pretty much based only on the blogs themselves.

ETA: and a secondary bonus would be that if they were publicly available, they could be read by anyone wondering 'so who are these Maxwells? I would like more information on them'. We give a much different viewpoint than the official blog....

I'm still pretty new to FJ, and having access to stories like these really helped me get a more accurate, complete view of what is being talked about here and some of the dangers in this belief system. I'm one of those people that sometimes takes things at face value (okay, I'll call it what it is...I'm a bit gullible, and used to think the Duggars were a sweet family and that the early episodes of Jon and Kate + 8 simply showed a slightly sassy, but fun couple who happen to be overwhelmed but are still a loving family).

I think it's good that newbies have access to the inside scoop. Also, erm, I'm...not at ALL motivated by the fact that I still haven't reached 75 posts yet...though I have indeed now kissed dating goodbye :snooty:

[YPestis]

When I read that the Maxwells were up and ready to work at 430AM, my first thought was that these people's lives just got worse! I am NOT a morning person. The idea of getting up that early (and not going to bed at 4AM) is abhorrent to a night owl such as myself. However, I'm not surprised Steve would forbid sleeping in for his kids. Gotta keep those kids busy with and working so they don't realize how miserable and empty their lives actually are!

[Dru]

You just KNOW there's something really, really dark in Steve's past. I bet he slept with a bunch of whores or something while in the military, or engaged in some kind of ultra-kinky sexual behavior that he's trying to absolve himself of. It just feels like he has a major secret in his past that has lead to his extremism.

For sure. He was stationed in Thailand so who knows what he was up to.

[uber frau]

How much of it is a history he feels terribly guilty about and how much of it is simply that he saw death up close( and probably had a few near misses himself), I don't know but I'm certain that period of his life had some major implication's for the person he is today.

[Jana814]

When I read that the Maxwells were up and ready to work at 430AM, my first thought was that these people's lives just got worse! I am NOT a morning person. The idea of getting up that early (and not going to bed at 4AM) is abhorrent to a night owl such as myself. However, I'm not surprised Steve would forbid sleeping in for his kids. Gotta keep those kids busy with and working so they don't realize how miserable and empty their lives actually are!

We r night owls in my house also (hense me writing this post so late) we would never make it in the Maxhell house.

[already hungover]

We r night owls in my house also (hense me writing this post so late) we would never make it in the Maxhell house.

I have ALWAYS been a night owl - my mom likes to tell stories of sitting up with me until 2 or 3 AM even when I was an infant, and as a preschooler, I never liked getting out of bed before 11 AM or so. I also refused naps. I actually had to do afternoon kindergarten because there's just no way I could have been up and at school by 8:45 AM at 5. Now, I can force myself out of bed in the morning like a proper adult, but I seriously HAAAAATE it, and if given the option, I revert to a 2 AM - 10 AM sleeping schedule.

I think I would have been well-acquainted with the plumbing line had I been a Maxwell.

[lilith]

You just KNOW there's something really, really dark in Steve's past. I bet he slept with a bunch of whores or something while in the military, or engaged in some kind of ultra-kinky sexual behavior that he's trying to absolve himself of. It just feels like he has a major secret in his past that has lead to his extremism.

I don't like to be hand slappy, but lets not use sexually shaming language like whores. Sex workers, prostitutes,, call girls, escorts - there are plenty of non derogatory terms for people involved in the sex trade.

I agree with you - I have no doubt that Steve patronised sex workers and feels like he has to be extra holy and repress the sexualities of those around him to make up for it. The fact that he didn't feel safe having working lunches with female co workers because he couldn't be sure he wouldn't enjoy their company and find himself attracted to them (and thus committing adultery by looking on them with lust) is very telling.

I feel for the sex workers he patronised if he did indeed do so. I can see him treating them badly and being contemptuous towards them, blaming them for tempting him, especially in a country like Thailand where sex workers have few legal protections and westerners tend to offer enough money to get away with whatever they want to.

I think part of the reason that Steve is so strict with his daughters (ankle length skirts instead of the usual fundie knee length or below, very loose tops with undershirts, no contrasting buttons) is because he was sexually active outside of marriage and was inclined to undress women with his eyes. I suspect that he thinks all men have his lack of self control and fidelity.

[Patsy]

I have ALWAYS been a night owl - my mom likes to tell stories of sitting up with me until 2 or 3 AM even when I was an infant, and as a preschooler, I never liked getting out of bed before 11 AM or so. I also refused naps. I actually had to do afternoon kindergarten because there's just no way I could have been up and at school by 8:45 AM at 5. Now, I can force myself out of bed in the morning like a proper adult, but I seriously HAAAAATE it, and if given the option, I revert to a 2 AM - 10 AM sleeping schedule.

I think I would have been well-acquainted with the plumbing line had I been a Maxwell.

Actually, I can't dig up the reference, but I'm almost certain they didn't hit. On one of their forums, maybe?, they said like "well, we don't hit, but it's perfectly okay to do so" or something?

[Palimpsest]

How about photos of it?

Now there's a thought, Thoughtful! But you are forcing me to admit how technically challenged I am. :embarrassed:

Mr P has left for work with his fancy photo-taking phone, my camera is kaput, and even if I could take a pic it would probably take me more hours than I like to admit to figure out how to put it here. :lol:

Question for the Helpmeets. If I just transcribe the thing word for word would that risk Steve getting his knickers in a twist and coming after us for copyright violation? Would it be better just to describe it using a few quotes?

I won't do anything with it until I hear back. I've got a fairly busy day ahead.

[Palimpsest]

I agree about relinquishing responsibility. When your life is governed by fears of not being perfect enough (because the teachings of Jesus are all about perfectionism and not mercy/grace, doncha know?), it makes sense as a coping mechanism. I say this as someone who has had a lifelong struggle with semi-OCD/perfectionism and a sometimes crippling obsession with trying to do the right thing, always. Thanks be to God, my parents didn't seize this as an opportunity to control me and have patiently encouraged me over the years not to worry about being so perfect. But Teri's headship is not so patient, or so self-sacrificing as to inconvenience himself for her good.

By giving over all control, Teri does not take the risk of making a mistake, and she fulfills what Steve asks of her and what they both perceive to be her biblical role.

Steve is obsessed with perfectionism as well - but as a man, his role is different. By virtue of being leader of his family, there is almost something inherently virtuous about making decisions for his wife and children. We see this from other fundies in their counsel to wives and children: basically, even when your headship is wrong, you give glory to God by obeying said headship, while headship gives glory to God by asserting his manhood (one of Dougie's favorite words), with manhood being inherently closer to God-given perfectionism than womanhood.

Sorry to run on and on...but in a word, Teri gets to avoid the risk of being imperfect by totally and completely ceding control to Steve; Steve gets to avoid the risk of being imperfect by totally and completely asserting control over his family, because he is inherently the most perfect of his family (you know, being not only the headship but also being...Steve Maxwell).

A like isn't enough. Yes! I think you nailed it. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[kpmom]

Actually, I can't dig up the reference, but I'm almost certain they didn't hit. On one of their forums, maybe?, they said like "well, we don't hit, but it's perfectly okay to do so" or something?

Really, Patsy? I wish we could find what they said on the subject, I've never read anything on hitting, for or against, from the Maxwells.

I always assumed they did hit their kids for several reasons; 1). They followed Ezzo once upon a time. 2). They were buddies of the Pearls back in the 90's. 3). They take the bible literally, so I imagine the spare the rod, spoil the child stuff, or however it's worded in the bible, would be the go ahead for hitting to people like them.

[YPestis]

Really, Patsy? I wish we could find what they said on the subject, I've never read anything on hitting, for or against, from the Maxwells.

I always assumed they did hit their kids for several reasons; 1). They followed Ezzo once upon a time. 2). They were buddies of the Pearls back in the 90's. 3). They take the bible literally, so I imagine the spare the rod, spoil the child stuff, or however it's worded in the bible, would be the go ahead for hitting to people like them.

I remember in one of their forums Teri wrote they do not use physical punishment, instead they use time outs, taking away privileges etc. However, for those that do, they recommended the Pearl's book. Teri then went on to suggest some type of line (?) you can get from Lowe, that suggestion of the tool to use was quickly deleted by Steve (maybe liability reasons?). That was the only time they mentioned hitting children. Otherwise the maxwells have always said in their writings that they employ nonphysical punishments for their kids.

I always thought of the Maxwells has being more insidious in their approach to child rearing. They tell their kids "sweetly" that they are going to hell and never see loved ones again if they misbehave rather than beat them into submission. Probably the same result but I don't think we can lay physical abuse at the feet of the Maxwells.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Didn't they have an example "consequences" chart that had some corporal punishments on it? I seem to recall they then said it was only an example... anyway the topic did come up here on FJ a while ago, you might be able to hunt up a thread (alas I can't recall any details at the moment).

I remember it was implied that the example wasn't what they actually used. We do know that they've had kids who were fighting end up stuck in the car eating crackers while the rest of the family got to enjoy fast food, which I suppose is "physical" in a way, but it's not spanking.

[treemom]

I hate to say it but there is a chance that the Maxwell family is a really good (or maybe convenient?) family to be related to- especially if you are elderly. There are many posts and corners that talk about how the kids visited their grandparents every Friday afternoon...... There are also posts where they have done things to "bless" their grandparents through cleaning.

My husband and I (and my son when he was born) have eaten dinner with my inlaws every sunday since we started living together 17 years ago. And my son mows their grass.

You can be good to your "elderly" family without the BS the maxwells bring. I suspect the BS outweighs the good sometimes.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

How could they "take away privileges????" - what privileges have they ever had?

[Brittany15]

My husband and I (and my son when he was born) have eaten dinner with my inlaws every sunday since we started living together 17 years ago. And my son mows their grass.

You can be good to your "elderly" family without the BS the maxwells bring. I suspect the BS outweighs the good sometimes.

I COMPLETELY agree with you...however unfortunately this is not how it is for the Maxwells. I think that the grandparents "put up with them" because they do feel that they are getting something "good" out of it. Would it be much better to have a relationship with their daughter and not get the BS along with it? Absolutely! Is this an option for them? Not at all!