A fat person dared to get in my pro-life picture

[littlemommy]

Shoot, now I owe her a dollar. :(

[ThisOlGirl]

"

bitch, fucktard, cuntlicker, fuckass, suckbutt, uglybitch, shiteater, whore, witchwhore, assface, slut, retard, narrowminded"

I'll be filing this one away for future use. Most likely it will be directed toward Ikea furniture with no assembly instructions.

[yewchapel]

The people calling you offensive names are almost certainly not from Free Jinger, that's not how people from here work. What we do is call people out on their bullshit, not just fling mud.

Maybe you could have, I don't know, asked the Catholics about their faith instead of jumping to conclusions, and not treating Muslims, Africans and others as exotic pets instead of people?

[kpmom]

There's nothing wrong with your looks, and I doubt anybody here would have mentioned them if you hadn't made the obese comment. They were just trying to make a point. It doesn't sound like you got the point though.

[FreeJosie]

So, have you publicly apologized to the man who had the audacity to stand behind you in a photograph and weigh more than you deem acceptable?

[lilith]

Actually, I've been thinking you remind me of someone and I wasn't sure who. It's Miss Raquel. That self centred adolescent narcissism, vanity and forced piety and total lack of experience mixed with the conviction that you know more at nineteen than anyone else will at ninety seemed familiar.

From a mother of three who has had two abortions for which she has no regret who resents your assumption that you should have any say in my reproductive choices.

[Megan]

Where were this Catholics from? Again, I grew up Catholic and knew plenty of pro-life Protestants, both when I lived in the North and when I lived in the South. Additionally, evangelical Christianity has a ridiculous presence in the US, especially in politics. I sincerely doubt anyone is unaware of evangelical Christians.

Malawi and Tanzania both have significant Christian populations. Hell, Malawi is about 85% Christian.

I am an atheist and I've only heard of one of those blogs (Friendly Atheist) and have never actually read it, it just sounds familiar. Googling shows that The Friendly Humanist only has 25 Twitter followers. Atheist Dad only has 22 people on his RSS feed. When people hear "top atheist" (since modified to "top atheist blogger") they tend to think of Hitchens or Dawkins.

I disagree with comments about your appearance. I do think, however, your way of other-ing people from other religions purely for being "the other" seems bizarre - your statements about Catholics are often flat out wrong. Your emphasis on Catholics and Muslims is concerning, given that you are clearly trying to convert them in Africa (since these are 2 of the dominant religions in the region you are going to). I am torn between wanting you to receive more education on Muslim beliefs and concern that this will "help" your mission (though I doubt it - Muslim theology has explanations for the existence of Christianity and your attitude towards Islam and Catholicism won't help you with them, either).

Your "situation" - you have apologized for bringing it here but haven't said anything about your behavior more broadly. I think that the apology you owe is to your friend ("friend"?) and not to us. You lied to her and then chastised and harassed her for not forgiving you. Forgiveness takes time, if it happens at all.

[mockingbird]

I'm sorry for posting my story and fundie encounter and acting like a brat about the whole situation I was in. It was foolish of me, but consider that this site is a place to rant and rave about fundies. :-P

None of her or your actions in that situation had anything to do with being a fundy or not being a fundy, hate to break it to you. It was just teen girl drama slash poor choices mostly on your part. We're not here to use religion as a scapegoat to hate on someone who (you perceive) wronged you. The snark is more about calling out hypocritical, racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. beliefs and actions based in religion which sorry to say was not what happened here.

The way I call catholics and muslims by "demeaning" or exoticized names isn't much different than putting me under the label of "fundie" which has it's own negative tone.

So, let's say you're right about this. Why does this give you the right to call Catholics and Muslims by demeaning names? Why do you have to say, if someone else does this, I can too? Isn't your religion about stepping up and doing the right thing, being the bigger person even if nobody else is doing it? (BTW, the "right thing" in this situation is to stop making assumptions and judgements about people and stop demeaning them.)

Turning off the criticism for a moment, I have a serious suggestion. Have you thought about going to school for something that deals with social theory like social justice, women's/gender studies, social work, etc.? (Even literature; literary theory exists very nicely alongside social theory and even uses some of the same texts.) You seem to have a surface understanding of many social theories (e.g. "exoticizing" something/someone), but I doubt whether you really know what these words mean or fully grasp them. That is not to be mean, there are a lot of young people on the internet who throw around these theories without really looking into them. I think you would benefit from further examination of those theories and would enjoy that type of work. From your posts here at least it seems that you enjoy analyzing and questioning things. I think a BA that incorporates education in social theories would greatly add to your ability to help people in other countries if you believe that is what you are being called to do in life. Always better to go in educated and more fully aware/prepared :)

[clarinetpower]

Ofasingleheart, I'd like to give you an exercise, as a suggestion. Go to your blog (pick one), and see how many times you use the word "I" or "me". Look over your writing, and read through each sentence. I think you'll be surprised to see just how often you talk about yourself, how things affect you, the feelings you have about them, etc. Even when you are talking about others, it is always in relation to yourself and how you can "help" them. It's all about you.

Should it be?

[GodsKnickers]

I'm still watching. And laughing a little. :-) I've gotten one fanatic telling me that if I make a public blog post saying all of you here are right and that I deserve to go to hell they would donate $1,000 to my missions fund. HA! Not happening.

Yeah right. I call bullshit on this.

You're so upset about someone being called fat, and this past weekend I've been called, and I quote:

"bitch, fucktard, cuntlicker, fuckass, suckbutt, uglybitch, shiteater, whore, witchwhore, assface, slut, retard, narrowminded" end quote.

By whom?

I realize you're all NOT meanspirited, some of you left some really nice comments and said that you were Christians, but not fundamentalists. Thanks. But I have a feeling no matter what I say or apologize for, you're just going to find something new to pick on.

Have you even tried? And I mean a true apology, not an "apology" followed by a lot of 'but this, or that or blah blah blah."

I don't agree with a lot of what, I guess, "more fundamentalist" bloggers say.

And?

Raquel over at God's Daughter drives me absolutely batty. The YLCF/KG ladies have stopped approving my comments after a simple question I asked about why they didn't consider a different approach to courtship since so many were failing. :think: I came here because another blogger alerted me to the discussions about YLCF and thought I might find them helpful and encouraged me to share my story.

So? Did you delete a bunch of stuff on yours and take it private? What's the difference? And um, have you ever considered the 'other blogger' sent you here to take you down a peg? You're not really different than any other of the fundie bloggers.

I'm sorry for posting my story and fundie encounter and acting like a brat about the whole situation I was in. It was foolish of me, but consider that this site is a place to rant and rave about fundies. :-P

So, I'm sorry but not really, then?

And by the way, that picture of me was when I was wearing no make-up, after 30 hours of no sleep on a bus in which I could not get sleep because a bunch of teens where asking me what I believed and why I was so interested in coming along.

I know I'm not good looking.

So you still think he's a fat photobomber then? Nothing about how you could be sorry you called him that, just a few words about you looking bad? Um, so what if you looked bad? What's that got to do with calling him a fat photobomber?

Honestly, some of the teens on that bus had never heard of a pro-life protestant.

Already covered that one.

I will say that I am sorry if I sounded judgmental to you, and calling people by their appearances is wrong.

Getting better...

I haven't had much upfront experience with Catholics before. (Um, duh, I used to be in the whole VF shebang (I had all the Titanic memorabilia and AS and E Botkin were my heroes, what do you expect?) :D I was tired when I wrote the post (60 hours later or so). That photoblog is my place to post pictures of my life to mostly family and friends. I'm out of an iPod right now so I don't have an Instagram to enjoy and my close family likes to see what I'm up to and what I'm thinking and feeling. So it may seem like I'm narcissist, and I admit it's something I've struggled to overcome. But it's really just my personal update blog for family and friends without Facebook.

I don't get what any of that has to do with not having experience with Catholics.

I may not be as "liberal" as you, I may not be as "open minded" as you and you may shove me in a box of "hypocritical little fundie" because I think differently than you.

It's not that you think differently. It's how you apply it.

No fundie has the exact same flavor.

I had no idea you had a taste. Would you say it's Teryiaki, BBQ, what?

The way I call catholics and muslims by "demeaning" or exoticized names isn't much different than putting me under the label of "fundie" which has it's own negative tone.

Don't follow you here.

I dropped out of CollegePlus (Minus) for many reasons. Mostly, I wanted to pursue other options for my future, and selling me a degree like they were was really stupid. I had just read a couple books (Radical, Firsthand, A Matter of Basic Principles, Atlas Shrugged, and Kisses from Katie) and all of those had an impact on me in one way or another. But I was also waking up to the HUGE IBLP following- the online events for CPers to connect were really weird. Seriously: everyone at the "World Changer" Summit (Isn't 'World Changer' an IBLP thing?) was part of Verity, In the Gap, Character First! or they said "I worked at HQ". That's when I really woke up to Gothardism and all it's magic because I had no idea what HQ referred to.

Ok?

Oh, and whoever asked, you should feel sorry for Malawi and Tanzania. And, I plan on sticking around.

Malawi is 80% Christian. Tanzania is over 60%. Why go there? They're plenty 'missionaried."

[OkToBeTakei]

You're so upset about someone being called fat, and this past weekend I've been called, and I quote:

"bitch, fucktard, cuntlicker, fuckass, suckbutt, uglybitch, shiteater, whore, witchwhore, assface, slut, retard, narrowminded" end quote.

Where exactly was this?

[ladyamylynn]

I'm still watching. And laughing a little. :-) I've gotten one fanatic telling me that if I make a public blog post saying all of you here are right and that I deserve to go to hell they would donate $1,000 to my missions fund. HA! Not happening.

You're so upset about someone being called fat, and this past weekend I've been called, and I quote:

"bitch, fucktard, cuntlicker, fuckass, suckbutt, uglybitch, shiteater, whore, witchwhore, assface, slut, retard, narrowminded" end quote.

I realize you're all NOT meanspirited, some of you left some really nice comments and said that you were Christians, but not fundamentalists. Thanks. But I have a feeling no matter what I say or apologize for, you're just going to find something new to pick on. I don't agree with a lot of what, I guess, "more fundamentalist" bloggers say. Raquel over at God's Daughter drives me absolutely batty. The YLCF/KG ladies have stopped approving my comments after a simple question I asked about why they didn't consider a different approach to courtship since so many were failing. :think: I came here because another blogger alerted me to the discussions about YLCF and thought I might find them helpful and encouraged me to share my story.

I'm sorry for posting my story and fundie encounter and acting like a brat about the whole situation I was in. It was foolish of me, but consider that this site is a place to rant and rave about fundies. :-P

And by the way, that picture of me was when I was wearing no make-up, after 30 hours of no sleep on a bus in which I could not get sleep because a bunch of teens where asking me what I believed and why I was so interested in coming along. I know I'm not good looking. Honestly, some of the teens on that bus had never heard of a pro-life protestant. I will say that I am sorry if I sounded judgmental to you, and calling people by their appearances is wrong. I haven't had much upfront experience with Catholics before. (Um, duh, I used to be in the whole VF shebang (I had all the Titanic memorabilia and AS and E Botkin were my heroes, what do you expect?) :D I was tired when I wrote the post (60 hours later or so). That photoblog is my place to post pictures of my life to mostly family and friends. I'm out of an iPod right now so I don't have an Instagram to enjoy and my close family likes to see what I'm up to and what I'm thinking and feeling. So it may seem like I'm narcissist, and I admit it's something I've struggled to overcome. But it's really just my personal update blog for family and friends without Facebook.

I may not be as "liberal" as you, I may not be as "open minded" as you and you may shove me in a box of "hypocritical little fundie" because I think differently than you. No fundie has the exact same flavor. The way I call catholics and muslims by "demeaning" or exoticized names isn't much different than putting me under the label of "fundie" which has it's own negative tone. I dropped out of CollegePlus (Minus) for many reasons. Mostly, I wanted to pursue other options for my future, and selling me a degree like they were was really stupid. I had just read a couple books (Radical, Firsthand, A Matter of Basic Principles, Atlas Shrugged, and Kisses from Katie) and all of those had an impact on me in one way or another. But I was also waking up to the HUGE IBLP following- the online events for CPers to connect were really weird. Seriously: everyone at the "World Changer" Summit (Isn't 'World Changer' an IBLP thing?) was part of Verity, In the Gap, Character First! or they said "I worked at HQ". That's when I really woke up to Gothardism and all it's magic because I had no idea what HQ referred to.

Oh, and whoever asked, you should feel sorry for Malawi and Tanzania. And, I plan on sticking around.

You're just the worst, you know it? Deep down, I think you do know it. All the equivocation, all of the excuses, all of the explanations. I think deep down, you know that you're intellectually bankrupt. Vapid. Almost literally a waste of space. Do us all a favor and fuck off.

[Vex]

Wow that's some klassy shit.

I would be horrified to be in someone's picture and like the OP a thoughtless comment about my weight or appearance would just tear my self-esteem to shreds. Fuck her, seriously. This had nothing to do with her ex-fundie status. If she knew anything about FJ at all she would know we'd call out anyone who did this. We don't shy away from criticising our own members if we feel they have said something they need to be held accountable for.

Nice copout and flounce. I give it a B.

[Sola]

I'll hold my hand up to calling her a two faced lying bitch. I copied my post from here as I said I would, to her blog. I don't comment anonymously either. If you have something to say, own it.

The rest of the stuff, not me. You have to remember that if you're being discussed here you're almost certain to be discussed elsewhere as some membrs ahere are on other snark boards. Plus we have members who just lurk here but will comment on blogs. I seriously doubt any regular poster called you those names. A lurker? Maybe.

[Maggie Mae]

I'm actually not surprised she was called those names, and I don't think she is lying. There were a couple of other blogs we talked about, that disappeared shortly after. I know there was one that didn't have comment moderation, and I saw some comments calling the blogger a "cunt" and "to just shut the fuck up and die already". I'm assuming it was a lurker.

[Mellanya]

I'm going to say she deserves a chance. I do feel that her post was a sufficient apology at this point. I also think it is very hard for a 19 year old to hear so many comments about her appearance - heck, it's hard for most people, no matter the age.

I also don't think she's lying about the name calling. I saw a comment myself in which the word "cunt" was used, followed by "I hope your plane gets kidnapped by a terrorist and you die". No matter who posted this - that's just wrong. You don't do this. Period.

Either way, I still think you're wrong about Catholics. :P They ain't so bad, really. I also want to add something about Saints because I read something you said about the belief in Saints is borderline polytheist: Saints are role-models in the faith. Traditional catholics chose names for their children based on what Saint they want their child to resemble. Like Joanne, who fought (physically) for faith and died fearlessly for it. You pray to a Saint in order to relate to exactly those deeds.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am on the fence about the comments on her blog. If they are real, I think they are as much about messing with FJ as they are about messing with ofasingleheart. Any constructive points that FJers make, whether here or on blogs, are fatally undermined by the idiots who waste time with name calling. I suspect that's the point. As long as someone is making petty, crude, personal attacks, ofasingleheart does not need to address any of the legitimate criticisms of her actions.

[Effie]

I'm actually not surprised she was called those names, and I don't think she is lying. There were a couple of other blogs we talked about, that disappeared shortly after. I know there was one that didn't have comment moderation, and I saw some comments calling the blogger a "cunt" and "to just shut the fuck up and die already". I'm assuming it was a lurker.

Ouh, that's awful. She didn't deserve that.

I haven't followed this whole thread, and my first reaction was: "Hey, she should know better". But it's clear she doesn't know better, so who cares about "should"? It is what is is. "My" 11-year-old doesn't know the clock, although she should know by now. I can't fault her, and maybe I can't fault this 19-year-older either. And I hope she is here, willing to learn from us. I can't say I have ever understood "pro-life" so maybe I shouldn't judge so harshly for someone wanting to take away my sister's reproduction rights. We never had pro-life vs. pro-choice debates in school because no one understood how you could have any valid arguments against abortion (for you that probably sounds strange since you have all those"pro-lifers" protesting everywhere). I actually had to leave my country to be exposed to the pro-life-craziness for the first time (I think I was 15). That was in my mother's catholic home country, where I noticed the religious buildings in Gdańsk Oliwa were filled with pro-life propaganda. There were pictures of babies (not fetuses) and I could see it for what it was: total bullshit. I should consider myself lucky. Other people have been fed with religious propaganda since before they could even walk.

[Sola]

The other thing to remember is that when people do leave comments like that, and I'm not condoning the really nasty stuff, is to maybe think to yourself WHY are people leaving such nasty stuff. Those people who called you a whore, cuntlicker, shiteater and whatever else they called you obviously felt very angry and used those words to express that. Now why do you think that is? They didn't do that because your blog is a delightful example of Christ-like behaviour. They did it because YOUR words and YOUR actions offended. You have a choice, you can get all butthurt about it, or you can maybe try and put yourself into another shoes and think about what you did that upset so many people.

[ladyaudley]

ofasingleheart, the issue I have with your apology is that it doesn't really address what most of us had a problem with, namely your lack of willingness to accept your behaviour was wrong. You were wrong. No ifs, no buts, no "they were mean to me too". Then they were wrong, too. That doesn't make you right. I still don't see you getting that.

I agree with mockingbird, go and do a degree. You would enjoy the analysis, the theoretical arguments, making a stand and having to defend it. I'd strongly suggest Literature just because I did it and it broadened my horizon immensely. I'd suggest starting with:

Ordering others and othering orders : the consumption and disposal of otherness - Cristina Pallí Monguilod in The consumption of mass / edited by Nick Lee and Rolland Munro; Oxford : Blackwell Publishers/The Sociological Review, 2001.

Exclusion and embrace : a theological exploration of identity, otherness, and reconciliation - Miroslav Volf

The interpretation of otherness : literature, religion, and the American imagination - Giles Gunn

On Liberty - John Stuart Mill

God and the Reach of Reason - Erik Wielenberg

Beyond Belief: Essays on Religion in a Post-Traditionalist World - Robert N. Bellah

Identity for and against Itself: Religion, Criticism, and Pluralization - Ananda Abeysekara in Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 72, No. 4 (Dec., 2004), pp. 973-1001

The Future of Religion - Richard Rorty, Gianni Vattimo

The Subject of Coexistence: Otherness in International Relations - Louiza Odysseos

That seems like it should keep you occupied a month or so. JSTOR is a good place to get a lot of these; ask a college-going friend for their login / to download some of the articles for you. If you don't know any, pm me and *I'll* get them for you.

edited for format

[green]

I agree with mockingbird, go and do a degree. You would enjoy the analysis, the theoretical arguments, making a stand and having to defend it. I'd strongly suggest Literature just because I did it and it broadened my horizon immensely.

* Completely off-topic *

Lady Audley: I just want to thank you for these references. I would like to learn more about these topics ("otherness/religion"), and its awesome to have recommended sources to start with. Thank you!

*Ends off-topic*

[ladyaudley]

My pleasure :)

[JesusFightClub]

I'm kinda intrigued by the Christian/libertarian thing. The gospel *and* Atlas Shrugged? Not an easy fit, there.

[Joan of Snarc]

I'm kinda intrigued by the Christian/libertarian thing. The gospel *and* Atlas Shrugged? Not an easy fit, there.

Not if you're a modern-day 'Murican conservative Christian Republican. This is their worldview*.

*Don't ask me; I don't understand it either.

[Syd+Marky]

ofasingleheart

Okay-I wasn't gonna say anthing when I read the thread the first time because I thought a sheltered 19 yr old might not know any better.At 19 I was already a wife and mother.I was still an idiotic little twit sometimes.

Now that I have read the response, I feel the need to point out what might not be so obvious to you.An apology that contains the word "but", is not an apology.When you say "Im sorry,but...", and lead into a disclaimer,the apology becomes null and void.If I said"Im sorry I called you*insert insult of choice*, but blah blah blah, I meant it", would you accept that as an apology?Is that the kind of apology you gave your "friend"?

Even if you would accept it,as you can see-it doesn't fly here.