Little Tait's Preemie Hospital Bill

[YPestis]

What really pisses me off about the family and VF's stance is that they give no regard to the fact they've been stiffing the hospital in order to feel self-righteous. Imagine you provided a valuable service to someone. The customer comes back saying, "Hey, sorry we can't pay for your bill right even though there's a way for you to get paid through the government, because we don't believe in asking the government for help. So, could you lower your bill and we'll try to pay you back...maybe in a few years?". Yeah, how awesome is that you don't get paid because someone decides it's more important that they not sully their hands over a principle? Would you like your paycheck beholden to someone's ideals? I sure wouldn't.

What's worse is that the family takes no thought to taking the service, knowing they are unable to pay for it themselves. Hey, don't go around telling me that the government is evil for providing service when you are forced to ask for that service without ability to pay for it yourself! If the government is evil for providing you with service, then why do you think it's ok to go ahead of take that same service and then stiff the provider for four years?

I can understand if someone said they oppose government aid because they know such and such item can be paid for by individuals. However, how does it make sense to say government aid is evil even when they are helping to pay for life saving services that individuals would be unable to purchase themselves?

As an aside, I have a cousin in China who also recently had a premature baby. His child was born (I think) 3 months premature and the family lacked health insurance. In China, there is no medicaid. Instead, the uninsured usually pay in cash. Each week in the incubator was more than what my cousin made in a year. They soon ran out of money and the family was looking at several years of debt. They decided to take the baby home early instead of facing financial ruin. The baby died. That's what happens when there is no medical safety net, when the evil government don't step in. Fundies talk about charity like children talk about Santa Claus. It's a great idea but it doesn't work out as nicely in real life.

[Stephanie66]

Former insurance rep here: Even if the insurance didn't cover the pregnancy, they HAVE TO cover the child as soon as it is born, so the whole story is BS. Lying liars who lie.

[salex]

Former insurance rep here: Even if the insurance didn't cover the pregnancy, they HAVE TO cover the child as soon as it is born, so the whole story is BS. Lying liars who lie.

I never believed they had any health insurance in the first place. She didn't work and he worked for daddy, a fundy small business owner who likely never offered any employee health insurance. So, their vague story has always been a lie, and only one of likely many. I find them and their parents despicable. Trust in God, have the preemie at home and mourn when it dies according to God's will, OR take the aid society provides to save the life of your child. But don't be a deadbeat and call it virtue!

[lilwriter85]

Sadly, I get the feeling that in future other fundie types will refuse Medicaid even if they qualify because some will think back to "righteous" Zimmermans. The Zimmermans have lucked out that many people have donated to them. A lot of their donations are likely coming from the VF crowd. I think Tait Sr.'s connections with Dougie have aided him greatly. Other fundie type families might not have deep connections the Zimmermans have.

A bit off-topic, but I continue to wonder if the Duggars were offered or accepted Medicaid for Josie's NICU bills. I know this has been discussed quite a bit here on FJ. Overall, the attitude of many fundies regarding Medicaid in serious situations worries me because someday a fundie family isn't going to be able to raise enough money to pay off a huge hospital bill.

[salex]

Overall, the attitude of many fundies regarding Medicaid in serious situations worries me because someday a fundie family isn't going to be able to raise enough money to pay off a huge hospital bill.

Which will put them into bankruptcy and, likely, make them scorned by their church (who they likely counted on for help with the bill based on the Zimmerman model.) The sooner these things come into play and begin to cause fissures in the facade, the better.

[Mama Mia]

Former insurance rep here: Even if the insurance didn't cover the pregnancy, they HAVE TO cover the child as soon as it is born, so the whole story is BS. Lying liars who lie.

In my state, that is just for the first 30 days. And if there was a gap before the mother was on the policy, and she wasn't covered yet the insurance obviously wouldn't cover it at all.

So if there is no pregnancy coverage on a policy the newborn is still covered for the birth and follow-up expenses ?

[countressrascal]

I think that the hospital put a lien on their house and they want to sell and move and can't because of that. Why they are begging on the internet. Here is the difference between fundie/mainstream Mormons and fundie Christians-Mormons will accept any type of government help they can get, it is called bleeding the breast. Chrisitians have a holier than thou attitude, Sky Pilot will provide, that is BS. All I can say is that my little clinic had to deal with Dougie, the Tool, regarding one of his followers that had his so called medical insurance. He plays the Sky Pilot card especially when it comes to children, has no clue how much anything costs, we finally had to go against the family and put a lien on their house to get paid the $50K that was owed us, that was after reducing the bill to Medicare rates. Because they refused to sign up for state insurance. I always heard that God will help those who help themselves. In my eyes signing up for government funded medical insurance is helping yourself. If I am wrong please explain.

[salex]

Since the Zimmermans don't want to participate in the socialist parts of government by accepting any of the perks of living in society do they

Decline to participate in the Alaska distribution of oil revenues from the permanent fund?

Not take personal deduction on their taxes for themselves or their children?

Not take and refuse to sell to potential real estate unless they agree not to take interest deduction on home real estate loans on their taxes?

Do any churches they attend refuse to take the socialist perk of not paying property taxes or decline to set up as charities so that they pay taxes like a for profit business?

Because all the deductions, etc are just as socialist as paying for his child's medical care.

[desertvixen]

As an aside, I have a cousin in China who also recently had a premature baby. His child was born (I think) 3 months premature and the family lacked health insurance. In China, there is no medicaid. Instead, the uninsured usually pay in cash. Each week in the incubator was more than what my cousin made in a year. They soon ran out of money and the family was looking at several years of debt. They decided to take the baby home early instead of facing financial ruin. The baby died. That's what happens when there is no medical safety net, when the evil government don't step in. Fundies talk about charity like children talk about Santa Claus. It's a great idea but it doesn't work out as nicely in real life.

My sympathies for your family member.

You are spot-on with the bolded, however.

[Stephanie66]

So if there is no pregnancy coverage on a policy the newborn is still covered for the birth and follow-up expenses ?

Yes, the mother of the child does not have to be on the policy for the baby to be covered, effective the baby's date of birth. They have anywhere from 30 days to a year to add the child to the coverage, based on the state.

When Tait was born (before the evil Obamacare was implemented) he would have still been subject to a lifetime maximum, but the laws are clear that a baby is covered from birth, provided the child is added in a timely manner.

I worked for a national health insurance company, and a big part of my job was adding and removing people from coverage. I added newborns all the time. If one parent has coverage and the company allows for family coverage, then the baby is added either effective the date of birth OR during open enrollment.

Also, I have NO IDEA what she is talking about with the ten months of prior coverage before they would take on the pregnancy? If she was on in the insurance plan at the time of marriage, her pregnancy would NOT have been pre-existing, and therefore, they can't not cover it unless the plan doesn't cover maternity, period. Otherwise, the company doesn't get to pick and choose when maternity coverage kicks in.

Their story has more holes than a ton of Swiss cheese. Bottom line--a part of me hopes they lose their house for their arrogance.

ETA: It shows how ignorant people donating are...they didn't bother to even research her story before handing over tens of thousands of dollars. Aren't the tea baggers all about personal responsibility? Why did they have more children when, technically, they couldn't afford the one they had? Also, if they are cutting back to pay medical expenses, why do they have internet? I'm sorry, but I have been pretty poor, and although internet wasn't the first thing to go, go it did.

[DarkAnts]

Many hospitals will help with hospital bills if you are near the poverty line. I have had large parts of my hospital bills paid off by hospital programs. Some just use you as a tax write off, others have donation programs. I still dont understand why they turned down evil government help but think its ok to ask for handouts.

[hoipolloi]

A lien on their house due to unpaid medical debts? Well, that certainly puts a different complexion on this matter.

Asshats, liars, and scammers - all of 'em.

[Stephanie66]

So is declaring bankruptcy acceptable? Not accepting taxpayer assistance, but screwing over their creditors?

(I have no issue with accepting Medicaid or declaring bankruptcy if there is no other option. I am on Medicaid because I have breast cancer and didn't want to, you know, end up living on the street. However, I DO take issue when they refuse help offered them, then declare bankruptcy. Especially when I suspect they just didn't want to pay for insurance premiums.)

[Buzzard]

I went to check on the status of the fundraising and the page seems to be down. So... poked around...

preemiefoundation.com/how-it-works

The applicant family is interviewed by the board of directors to determine eligibility for aid.

A few of the requirements:

Must adhere to our basic statement of faith.

Must believe on principle that it is the role of the Church, not the State, to provide for medical needs within the body of Christ.

Must enroll in an insurance or medical sharing program such as Samaritan Ministries, sufficient to cover future preemie medical bills prior to disbursement of funds; applicant must agree to keep their coverage current; “repeat offenders†will not be considered (unless their next child is born before full coverage kicks in).

Must provide a financial report in order to assess their potential ability to partially or fully meet their own need.

3The hospital bill is professionally negotiated.

The LTFPA may cover up to 40%* of a specific medical bill, based off of the funds available, only if the bill is recognized as “paid in full†by the medical provider; LTFPA will not partially cover a bill.

So, to qualify for funds from their "charity" you have to promise not to be in the situation again... by joining scamaritan ministries? Dont they only "cover" a certain portion as well?

The foundation will only cover UP TO 40% so long as the hospital decides that they'll accept the amount they offer? :angry-banghead: Seriously???

[Buzzard]

The train is slowing... they only have 47k with 30 days left. They're now resorting to woodworking giveaways.

[WonderingInWA]

Still, they said they were hoping to get the hospital to accept whatever they could raise, so maybe they will. It's crazy to think a bill that started at something like $750K (IIRC) was cut down to $100K, and now potentially "whatever they can raise".

[lilwriter85]

I still think they will manage to raise the 100 k. Dougie Phillips will probably send out stuff to the VF crowd asking them to donate again.

[Lillybee]

I don't remember if this issue has been raised upthread, but how did the Duggars manage to pay for Josie's hospital bill?

Did they accept the evil Medicaid?

[slickcat79]

I don't remember if this issue has been raised upthread, but how did the Duggars manage to pay for Josie's hospital bill?

Did they accept the evil Medicaid?

They claimed in their book that they got private insurance after newborn Jordyn was hospitalized in early 2010, so they would have had it in place to cover Michelle's expenses as well as Josie's hospital stay. They did max out their deductible for both 2010 and 2011, but I don't know how much that was. I'm surprised they managed to find any insurance company that would be willing to take them on, but I guess they did.

There was also some speculation that they allowed the hospital to accept medicaid on Josie's behalf because she would qualify for it due to prematurity. That way they could still claim that they never took government money, because they didn't...the hospital did. Don't know if that's true or not. Even with insurance, a 6-month NICU stay for a micropremie has the potential to destroy a family financially.

[JMarie]

I just checked out their site and ... they live in Wasilla? Can't they just ask Sarah Palin for the money?

[Buzzard]

I just checked out their site and ... they live in Wasilla? Can't they just ask Sarah Palin for the money?

She'd probably tell them to take the medicaid!

[Stephanie66]

They are doing all they can to fundraise, but NOT doing all they can to pay their own bills. That irritates me. Having three more children and being a stay at home mom when they had this medical bill looming over them is a tad irresponsible. I guess if people want to bail them out, that's their business, but I would have told them to accept the Medicaid and move on.

And they say they didn't accept Medicaid because it was a "wealth redistribution program." Well...how is asking wealthier people to pay your bills NOT wealth redistribution? Same thing, only different?

[WonderingInWA]

Tait Zimmerman's FB page is full of all his self-righteous bullshit. His status updates are nothing about his life but all about his belief system and he admits his real estate gig with his dad is really just a stepping stone to develop his own ministry. Somehow this gig with raising funds instead of taking "charity" will become his testimony to his future followers that God provided and will always provide, and he'll just preach on that it's okay to go ahead and have as many kids as you like and let your wife stay home even though you owe the hospital who delivered your first child alive (and kept him alive) a million dollars you are begging other people to pay. He's just awful.

ETA: Today's status update: "Listening to a sermon on "leisure," covering today's unbiblical views of work, rest, recreation, and retirement.

Shocking thought: Work was an integral part of man's life even in the Garden of Eden!"

Well, Tait, then get off your ass and pay your own bills without begging people for money. Duh.

[slickcat79]

She'd probably tell them to take the medicaid!

Or go to Canada, or find out if they qualify for Alaska native benefits. I think those are Palin solutions that have been employed in the past.

[teachergirl]

yeah, they are two of the most irritating fundies out there. He works for daddy's business and she has had four babies in five years despite huge health risks with each one. Their latest diatribe was about public school and how evil it is....as a teacher I say, stay home then. I sure don't want their creationism, quiverfull, anti history and science bs in my classroom. I hope they don't raise the money. I really don't.