Little Tait's Preemie Hospital Bill

[DarkAnts]

The hospital in my town will let you pay your bill off in easy monthly installments that are adjusted based on your income. I am currently paying my bill at $50/month for getting stitches. I get the feeling that they were trying to pray the bill away instead of working with the hospital.

[salex]

My guess is they aren't reporting the donations at all -- just collecting them under the table. So the donor is expected to pay the taxes on that money. How convenient is that? Free money from generous Christians! Woo-hoo!

IF the donations"" are less than12-13 K each, then they would be gifts, and thus not taxable to the recipient, I think. I could give him 10 K and her 10 K and they would neither have to pay taxes on the gift, even if they report them. Not that I'd give them anything.

Anyone more tax savvy than I, please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... ft-Taxes#4

[salex]

I haven't seen this discussed here before and I did a search before I am now posting this message...

Without further ado, we've got the Tait Zimmerman family begging for money to pay for the preemie birth of their first (of FOUR) children. Little Tait (he's named after his father) was born 3 months premature FOUR YEARS AGO, and they ended up with a lot of medical bills (yet they still decided to have 3 more children after that).

Fast forward to now. They have managed to negotiate some of the bills with the hospital and other medical care. But they are now at the point they need to raise $100,000 in 90 days in order to finally settle the last bill.

Some background info: They got pregnant a month into their marriage and their insurance didn't cover the pregnancy. That's surprising. I'm guessing they didn't HAVE insurance but are too embarrassed to admit it. They do state on their fundraising website that they now have Scamaritan so they rely on other Christians to pay for their other births and medical issues.

Although they qualified for Medicaid at the time Little Tait was born, they turned it down. They felt it was unChristian to take government aid.

AND, donations to their fundraiser are not tax-deductible because "With all the hoops to jump through and the time constraints, obtaining tax exempt status was not feasible". In other words, give us your money and pay taxes on it yourself.

BTW, Daddy Tait is a VF intern graduate and BIL to Phillip LeClerc, the guy who makes movies (he made "Divided", as I recall).

Their fundraising website is here: littletait.com The "FAQ"and "Our Needs" pages are the most interesting.

And....go!

Is it wrong to hope they don't make their goal, though since they got 15K in 4 or 5 days, they likely will.

Clearly , the did not have insurance when they got married. It would be great if they would suffer the fate of other unisured people bankruptcy, etc, because of their arrogance at refusing "socialistic" aid. I'd view it as God trying to teach them a lesson.

[uber frau]

In Australia, private insurance has a waiting period. It's about 2months for most things but 12 for obstetric cover. Is this ever the case in the US? That's what I kind of presumed was the case but our system is very different from yours. There's always the public system here (and let's be honest, micro press will always end up in the big public hospitals anyway. Private hospitals here lack the expertise and facilities).

[Mellanya]

Ebil socialized medicine system country member here.

Now, as I see it, it is these people who brag that American health care is premium because it's a capitalist system, I don't see how negotiating bills works with that. Yes, the lights will probably not be turned off in that hospital because the 650k hurt them so much, but how are you going to keep it "premium" if you negotiate hospitals down?

To be honest, I'd be ashamed of myself if I had to negotiate down such a high amount. And I also don't see why it's so terrible to accept government support. Because it's totally my fault the baby was a preemie? Because preemies can't grow into useful members of society? Nope, just don't see it.

As for me, I'm glad for every preemie who survives due to my taxmoney. I'm glad for everyone who receive the help he/she needs because of my money. Meh.

[morfydd]

FYI, the article someone mentioned was here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 64,00.html "Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us" (link not broken because it's Time magazine) It's pretty horrifying in the amount of markups that are standard, and the uninsured aren't able to negotiate the markups down without usually trashing their credit in the process.

But that doesn't excuse the dumb of not signing up for Medicaid, not having any way to pay back the bills, and then begging on the internet.

[treemom]

My guess is they aren't reporting the donations at all -- just collecting them under the table. So the donor is expected to pay the taxes on that money. How convenient is that? Free money from generous Christians! Woo-hoo!

IF the donations"" are less than12-13 K each, then they would be gifts, and thus not taxable to the recipient, I think. I could give him 10 K and her 10 K and they would neither have to pay taxes on the gift, even if they report them. Not that I'd give them anything.

Anyone more tax savvy than I, please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... ft-Taxes#4

Yes that is true, but I think there is a limit on the total amount of gifts you can get.

Plus the additional problem is they can deduct these medical expenses when they aren't paying for them really.

[salex]

I'm also not thrilled that they keep having kid when they haven't paid for the first one. Maybe they should abstain for a season and pay their debt.

With only one kid, maybe help meet could get a job in the evening or at night and help with the bills while headship stayed home with his son. No day care costs, and increased income. though I doubt she has much education (SOTDRT and Advanced Home Making Skills)

[nelliebelle1197]

I'm also not thrilled that they keep having kid when they haven't paid for the first one. Maybe they should abstain for a season and pay their debt.

With only one kid, maybe help meet could get a job in the evening or at night and help with the bills while headship stayed home with his son. No day care costs, and increased income. though I doubt she has much education (SOTDRT and Advanced Home Making Skills)

Isn't this the kind of stuff these people rail against? Doing things you cannot afford?

They do not understand that what they are doing is only different in signing up for Medicaid and "socialist" systems in language. They are still having to rely on others to pay their bills. They are not self-sufficient. It is nothing more than hippie, marxist influenced communalism that they are practicing here. Hypocrites.

[burntnorton]

, I'm a healthcare lawyer and have a lot of thoughts on our "system", but this case is an example of why people shouldnt be permitted to refuse Medicaid. Because guess who ends up payimg anyway when these morons rack up bills they can never hope to pay? Yes, the hospitals negotiate down the sticker price, in part because it bears only a casual relationship to the actual cost of care, in part because they are often charitable institutions, but mostly because they would like some payment sooner rather than fruitlessly pursuing an uncollectible debt for a year or two. The patients, if poor enough to qualify for Medicaud, are judgment proof, after all. Then they write ofc the debt and, by a combination of raising rates in the following year and collecting funding from the government for uncompensated care, go on their merry way. So who ultimately pays for everything, including the vast bureaucratic apparatus needed to support this absurd comedy? Taxpayers, the insured, and patients who self pay for care. So fuck these assholes, their principles, and their parental rights. Particularly for kids, the hospitals and doctors should be permitted to sign them up for Medicaid without asking permission. Hell, they probably have sufficient income verification from attempting to means test the charges. Once again, fuck them.

[VooDooChild]

I'm also not thrilled that they keep having kid when they haven't paid for the first one. Maybe they should abstain for a season and pay their debt.

With only one kid, maybe help meet could get a job in the evening or at night and help with the bills while headship stayed home with his son. No day care costs, and increased income. though I doubt she has much education (SOTDRT and Advanced Home Making Skills)

:lol: Surely, you jest! :lol: Helpmeets work.... :lol: ah, you're funny. But then again, maybe if she has a centerpiece and her cabinet top is clear......

[salex]

THen maybe he should get a second job, or work for someone else in a job that will pay.

I am just about to start praying some of those "god, punish them" prayers on some of these people. I'm just so sick of the sanctimonious crap, the pussies as pez dispensers, popping out babies every 9 months and 20 minutes and whole dumbing down of my country by these people. These people, despite their 'happy smiling faces" disgust me more and more over time.

[bea]

Yes, there's a limit on the number of gifts you can get, but the REAL tax issue here is that those gifts are counted as - dun dun DUNNNN - income for Tait's family. So that $100,000, if not put into the right kind of bank account set up in the right kind of way by a tax lawyer, would be taxable income.

Mr. Bea is a tax lawyer and he says that 90% of the "raffles" and "fundraisers" that he sees can have adverse consequences for the person the money is raised for. The IRS doesn't usually go after stuff like this, unless it's REALLY blatant, but dude, someone gives you $100,000 and you're not a 501c(3), they don't get a tax writeoff and YOU PAY TAXES ON THE MONEY.

[VooDooChild]

THen maybe he should get a second job, or work for someone else in a job that will pay.

I am just about to start praying some of those "god, punish them" prayers on some of these people. I'm just so sick of the sanctimonious crap, the pussies as pez dispensers, popping out babies every 9 months and 20 minutes and whole dumbing down of my country by these people. These people, despite their 'happy smiling faces" disgust me more and more over time.

See, you keep making sense. But that doesn't apply to these people because God. These people tend to be spineless, lazy mooches and God seems to the crutch or excuse to keep being lazy. No personal responsibility that way. I can't imagine that doesn't make these types secretly miserable. If it's insecurity instead of laziness then I might have an ounce of sympathy because I know insecurity sucks. But it still isn't an excuse to be a bum.

But yeah, I get your frustration. They make me angry too. Maybe we should......

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

I haven't seen this discussed here before and I did a search before I am now posting this message...

Some background info: They got pregnant a month into their marriage and their insurance didn't cover the pregnancy. That's surprising. I'm guessing they didn't HAVE insurance but are too embarrassed to admit it. They do state on their fundraising website that they now have Scamaritan so they rely on other Christians to pay for their other births and medical issues.

Although they qualified for Medicaid at the time Little Tait was born, they turned it down. They felt it was unChristian to take government aid.

And....go!

Sorry, I call BS. Unless her insurance policy did not cover pre-natal, than you are covered through your pregnancy. Also, depending on the insurance company they give you a grace period to make changes to your insurance when you get married you have 30-90 days to change your insurance if you have a "life changing" event: Marriage, death, birth, move. So even if she got pregnant a month into their marriage, they had ample time to make changes to their insurance (I am sure she made time to change her name).

Heck, my employer encourages us to fill out "change of life" insurance changes before our due date. I went into HR two weeks prior to my due date (my family is on my insurance plan), and all my husband had to do was fax the provisional birth certificate to my HR office the day after I gave birth, and my daughter was covered under my insurance before we were checked out of the hospital four days later.

But even is she was not already covered, my insurance would have covered her birth. I ended up having a c-section. My total bill was 45,000 and I was responsible for 350.00 of it.

But not to accept medicaid? Unbelievable.

[salex]

I suspect he didn't have insurance as he is self employed and or works for his dad and he may well have been on his parents policy is they had insurance .

[gibbsgirls]

IF the donations"" are less than12-13 K each, then they would be gifts, and thus not taxable to the recipient, I think. I could give him 10 K and her 10 K and they would neither have to pay taxes on the gift, even if they report them. Not that I'd give them anything.

Anyone more tax savvy than I, please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... ft-Taxes#4

I believe this only applies to monetary gifts to your children and their spouses, not just anybody.

[gustava]

, I'm a healthcare lawyer and have a lot of thoughts on our "system", but this case is an example of why people shouldnt be permitted to refuse Medicaid. Because guess who ends up payimg anyway when these morons rack up bills they can never hope to pay? Yes, the hospitals negotiate down the sticker price, in part because it bears only a casual relationship to the actual cost of care, in part because they are often charitable institutions, but mostly because they would like some payment sooner rather than fruitlessly pursuing an uncollectible debt for a year or two. The patients, if poor enough to qualify for Medicaud, are judgment proof, after all. Then they write ofc the debt and, by a combination of raising rates in the following year and collecting funding from the government for uncompensated care, go on their merry way. So who ultimately pays for everything, including the vast bureaucratic apparatus needed to support this absurd comedy? Taxpayers, the insured, and patients who self pay for care. So fuck these assholes, their principles, and their parental rights. Particularly for kids, the hospitals and doctors should be permitted to sign them up for Medicaid without asking permission. Hell, they probably have sufficient income verification from attempting to means test the charges. Once again, fuck them.

Given that the baby was a preemie, might the hospital simply have submitted the bill to Medicaid? Most of us are under the impression that much of Josie Duggar's hospital was paid directly to the hospital, therefore allowing Jim Boob to declare "We never accept government money."

BTW: Eliot is one of my favorite poets.

[burntnorton]

Preemies born before a certain week gestation ( I forget which) are categorically eligible for Medicaid regardless of parental income. Tait probably wasnt that premature.

[WonderingInWA]

Preemies born before a certain week gestation ( I forget which) are categorically eligible for Medicaid regardless of parental income. Tait probably wasnt that premature.

I think they said somewhere on their website that he did qualify due to his birth weight. But they still wouldn't accept Medicaid.

[lilwriter85]

I'm also not thrilled that they keep having kid when they haven't paid for the first one. Maybe they should abstain for a season and pay their debt.

With only one kid, maybe help meet could get a job in the evening or at night and help with the bills while headship stayed home with his son. No day care costs, and increased income. though I doubt she has much education (SOTDRT and Advanced Home Making Skills)

I was thinking the same thing too. I understand that they had desire to have more than 1 kid, but they could have waited like you said. I agree with you the wife could have worked too, even part time might have helped. I did part time waitressing shifts in college and sometimes I made $50-$100 during 6 hour shifts. I can understand women who desire to be SAHMs, but if something like this happens they should try to bust their ass to help their situations instead of waiting for years and then asking others to help 100 grand bill.

[August]

In Australia, private insurance has a waiting period. It's about 2months for most things but 12 for obstetric cover. Is this ever the case in the US? That's what I kind of presumed was the case but our system is very different from yours. There's always the public system here (and let's be honest, micro press will always end up in the big public hospitals anyway. Private hospitals here lack the expertise and facilities).

No, AFAIK waiting periods for maternity coverage are illegal, but you might be excluded as a pre-existing condition? The rules are also different if you get coverage through work (group cover) or on your own (individual). You can purchase insurance with no maternity cover. Hospitals are required by law to treat a woman in labor, and to allow you to remain for 24 hours after the birth. They can, however, pursue you to bankruptcy to pay for it.

You can pre-negotiate a c-section price, I know someone who did.

Time for a resounding chorus of USA! USA! USA! :angry-banghead:

[NurseNell]

Preemies born before a certain week gestation ( I forget which) are categorically eligible for Medicaid regardless of parental income. Tait probably wasnt that premature.

According to something I read last night somewhere on their blog or FB he was categorically eligible but they said no, they didn't want any part of socialism. :pink-shock:

[lilwriter85]

On their FAQ page, they answered the Medicaid question.

Q: Does Medicaid cover the bill?

A: Any baby with a birth weight of under 1200 grams (Little Tait was 1170 grams) automatically qualifies for the federal, tax supported wealth distribution program Medicaid, regardless of income or other factors. It was extremely tempting to accept such an easy handout. But, for conscience’s sake we did not believe that it was right to take from such a socialistic program. Instead, after careful consideration, prayer, and much counsel, we reached the decision to rely on God’s approved method for meeting social needs: voluntary action and community.

[lilwriter85]

This just annoyed me for some reason, can't figure out what exactly. Yes, they are correct church assistance isn't outdated or uncommon, but there is only so much churches or other Christian communities can do.

Q: Do you really think that you can raise $100,000 in 90 days?

A: The short answer would be, “yes;” we are going to do our very, very best and leave the results to God. We are willing to do whatever it takes to get as far as possible, and are prayerfully hoping for the support of the Christian community. We believe that Christian community is the single most effective way to meet the real needs we face around us. We are not skeptics, or pessimists as to its capabilities. It has shown itself time after time throughout history. It has only been with the Church’s recent withdrawal from its position of influence over the past century, that the state has dominated areas such as welfare, healthcare, and education. Christian community action is not an outdated concept; it is just as needed now as it ever has been. So, we truly believe that this, and other needs can be met in short periods of time by broad based support from the Christian community.

They have accepted help in the past for other bills

Q: Will there be any other bills?

A: No! The neonatology and other bills (totaling around $75,000) have already been settled through our own payments and generous help from others.