Little Tait's Preemie Hospital Bill

[lilwriter85]

I found an article about the Zimmermans. Tait Sr. and Lauren went on a radio show to discuss their experiences.

From the article

http://toginet.com/show/motherhoodtalkr ... icles/2042 (not breaking link because it is a radio website)

Early in Little Tait's stay, Tait and Lauren were approached by social workers, informing them that - because of their son's low birth weight - Medicaid would automatically cover their hospital bills in full, as well as partially cover meals, lodging, transportation, and any future therapies. While it was definitely a tempting option to just sign their son's substantial bill off to the taxpayers, and while social workers raised many arguments in favor of the government programs, Tait and Lauren sought counsel and stood firm on their pre-marriage commitment to not accept government welfare; instead, they sought to cover the costs on their own and with any help the Lord might send through private support.

[rhianna]

You know, in reading their story, if they had gone to an ER (which, it seems like the closest one was 40 miles away, but whatever) when the contractions first started, instead of just calling a midwife, who didn't even come to see the laboring mother and just prescribed bedrest and water (???), they might have been given medication to delay labor and maybe Tait wouldn't have been born so prematurely . . .

Then again, he might have still been born that night, but at least he would have had a better chance of staying in longer at a proper hospital with a fully equipped L&D ward.

[lilwriter85]

You know, in reading their story, if they had gone to an ER (which, it seems like the closest one was 40 miles away, but whatever) when the contractions first started, instead of just calling a midwife, who didn't even come to see the laboring mother and just prescribed bedrest and water (???), they might have been given medication to delay labor and maybe Tait wouldn't have been born so prematurely . . .

Then again, he might have still been born that night, but at least he would have had a better chance of staying in longer at a proper hospital with a fully equipped L&D ward.

I think you do have a point there about what might have happened if they had gone to the ER. I have several relatives who live in rural areas and some of the nearest hospitals are between 20 to 40 miles away. They are always prepared in case they have go to the ER, they have figured the quickest routes to take in order to get to the hospital as fast they can. Some rural law enforcement agencies will provide lead escorts in certain situations. I do think Tait and Lauren could have handled things better and I have to wonder if it is possible for that midwife to have gotten into trouble.

Edited to add a word.

[Verin Sedai]

You know, in reading their story, if they had gone to an ER (which, it seems like the closest one was 40 miles away, but whatever) when the contractions first started, instead of just calling a midwife, who didn't even come to see the laboring mother and just prescribed bedrest and water (???), they might have been given medication to delay labor and maybe Tait wouldn't have been born so prematurely . . .

Then again, he might have still been born that night, but at least he would have had a better chance of staying in longer at a proper hospital with a fully equipped L&D ward.

Reading their story, I cant faullt the midwife's recommendations... rest and water were what I was first prescribed for preterm contractions. Most early contractions result from dehydration and will go away when the mom drinks enough water. However, some are the real deal and no amount of water, or even medication, will halt them. I first had contractions on a Sunday, was admitted to the hospital on Wednesday, and had the baby Sautrday evening, just long enough to do a round of steroids.

However, I think it is bull That they call fundraising "God's approved way"... God never said thou shalt not accept govt assistance... don't understand the capitalism=Christianity mindset.

[twinmama]

Jesus fuck. I have a preemie NICU bill, for twins, that I will be paying off for 20 years. Yes, when my kiddos go to college, we will still be paying their birth bill. Because we didn't qualify for Medicaid and our insurance, which we DID have, was shit. Yet I've never begged on the internet because it's OUR bill. And because in my opinion, that hospital SAVED my boys' lives and they deserve their payment. Even if we're paying for 20 years.

[lilwriter85]

Reading their story, I cant faullt the midwife's recommendations... rest and water were what I was first prescribed for preterm contractions. Most early contractions result from dehydration and will go away when the mom drinks enough water. However, some are the real deal and no amount of water, or even medication, will halt them. I first had contractions on a Sunday, was admitted to the hospital on Wednesday, and had the baby Sautrday evening, just long enough to do a round of steroids.

However, I think it is bull That they call fundraising "God's approved way"... God never said thou shalt not accept govt assistance... don't understand the capitalism=Christianity mindset.

This. I will add that I'm a former Catholic now atheist, if I still believed in God I would hope that a loving God wouldn't judge people in need for taking government assistance. The Zimmermans might be at high risk for needing government assistance later on. Tait Sr. could end up facing troubles in real estate and it seems that Lauren doesn't have any kind of backup plan in place. I guess they would let their children starve by not accepting ebil food stamps in certain situations.

[twinmama]

Preemies born before a certain week gestation ( I forget which) are categorically eligible for Medicaid regardless of parental income. Tait probably wasnt that premature.

Unfortunately I know way too much about this, but this is only somewhat true. In my state (CT) preemies of a certain gestation or birth weight do qualify for Medicaid. BUT that is only if they dont' already have insurance. And because our shit insurance automatically covers babies for the first 30 days, my boys did not qualify for Medicaid. And of course, the first 30 days was an expensive treatment time in the NICU. So we got a bill of $700,000 for two 29 weekers. That got lowered to $125,000 for just the first 30 days (after they were off our auto cover insurance they did get medicaid). We had to negotiate down to something there was some hope of us every paying off. So we owe the hospital like $40,000. :pink-shock:

[JMarie]

What happens if they're unable to raise the $100,000 in 90 days?

[WonderingInWA]

What happens if they're unable to raise the $100,000 in 90 days?

This is directly from their website:

"Our goal is to raise $100,000 within 90 days. We have a letter from the hospital stating that this amount will settle Little Tait’s account. If we are not able to meet the hospital’s requirements, we will pursue one of two options:

1) Offer the hospital the final amount of money raised in exchange for complete settlement of the account.

2) Ask for an extension if progress is being made towards our goal.

If neither of these two options are acceptable to the hospital, we have two choices:

1) Return money to individual donors (minus minimal paypal/credit card/bank processing fees).

2) Hold money in third party account until future settlement or extension is negotiated."

[Mama Mia]

No, AFAIK waiting periods for maternity coverage are illegal, but you might be excluded as a pre-existing condition? The rules are also different if you get coverage through work (group cover) or on your own (individual). You can purchase insurance with no maternity cover. Hospitals are required by law to treat a woman in labor, and to allow you to remain for 24 hours after the birth. They can, however, pursue you to bankruptcy to pay for it.

You can pre-negotiate a c-section price, I know someone who did.

Time for a resounding chorus of USA! USA! USA! :angry-banghead:

Pregnancy coverage varies greatly by insurance provider and by state regulation. If they are a particularly slimy company they could also deny care if, for example, childbirth is only covered after the person has been on the policy for 10 months ( one month for waiting period for coverage and 9 months for pregnancy ) and the baby was premature. Also, many policies cover the mother during the pregnancy and the childbirth - but wouldn't cover the nicu after a certain number of days.

I hate insurance companies with a burning hatred after recent experiences.

Fortunately many of the huge gaps in coverage are being phased out under the Affordable Health Care act -- but that wouldn't have been in effect at that time.

[burntnorton]

Unfortunately I know way too much about this, but this is only somewhat true. In my state (CT) preemies of a certain gestation or birth weight do qualify for Medicaid. BUT that is only if they dont' already have insurance. And because our shit insurance automatically covers babies for the first 30 days, my boys did not qualify for Medicaid. And of course, the first 30 days was an expensive treatment time in the NICU. So we got a bill of $700,000 for two 29 weekers. That got lowered to $125,000 for just the first 30 days (after they were off our auto cover insurance they did get medicaid). We had to negotiate down to something there was some hope of us every paying off. So we owe the hospital like $40,000. :pink-shock:

Wow. You must have one of those piece of shit, should be illegal mini med plans. Seriously, you should have blown right into catastrophic coverage at least $30,000 ago. Is this through an employer? If so, does your employer know? Thank God for ACA. This story will be unthinkable a year from now.

[Mama Mia]

Wow. You must have one of those piece of shit, should be illegal mini med plans. Seriously, you should have blown right into catastrophic coverage at least $30,000 ago. Is this through an employer? If so, does your employer know? Thank God for ACA. This story will be unthinkable a year from now.

There is often conflict between already having insurance - no matter how crappy - and getting government coverage. I know with our state run children's health insurance coverage kids can't be covered if their parents employer based insurance covers them. Unfortunately many private policies have very high deductibles and minimal coverage so children still can't get care.

[Buzzard]

Given that the baby was a preemie, might the hospital simply have submitted the bill to Medicaid? Most of us are under the impression that much of Josie Duggar's hospital was paid directly to the hospital, therefore allowing Jim Boob to declare "We never accept government money."

BTW: Eliot is one of my favorite poets.

I'm wondering if "negotiating down" is really a code for "the hospital submitted the balance to medicaid." Is that an option for the hospital? Can they submit an unpaid bill after a reasonable period of time to medicaid without the patient's representative agreeing?

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

Pregnancy coverage varies greatly by insurance provider and by state regulation. If they are a particularly slimy company they could also deny care if, for example, childbirth is only covered after the person has been on the policy for 10 months ( one month for waiting period for coverage and 9 months for pregnancy ) and the baby was premature. Also, many policies cover the mother during the pregnancy and the childbirth - but wouldn't cover the nicu after a certain number of days.

I hate insurance companies with a burning hatred after recent experiences.

Fortunately many of the huge gaps in coverage are being phased out under the Affordable Health Care act -- but that wouldn't have been in effect at that time.

I had to wait sixty or ninty days before my health care kicked in, when I started my current job. I had forgotten about that. But have been for the most part happy with mine. But I am really fortunate and realize that other are not as lucky as I am.

[twinmama]

Wow. You must have one of those piece of shit, should be illegal mini med plans. Seriously, you should have blown right into catastrophic coverage at least $30,000 ago. Is this through an employer? If so, does your employer know? Thank God for ACA. This story will be unthinkable a year from now.

Thankfully we have great insurance now. But my husband was a freelancer then and we had a horrible limited benefits plan that had a $25,000 annual LIMIT. So the boys blew past that in a few days!

[Bloo]

This is directly from their website:

"Our goal is to raise $100,000 within 90 days. We have a letter from the hospital stating that this amount will settle Little Tait’s account. If we are not able to meet the hospital’s requirements, we will pursue one of two options:

1) Offer the hospital the final amount of money raised in exchange for complete settlement of the account.

2) Ask for an extension if progress is being made towards our goal.

If neither of these two options are acceptable to the hospital, we have two choices:

1) Return money to individual donors (minus minimal paypal/credit card/bank processing fees).

2) Hold money in third party account until future settlement or extension is negotiated."

So if they don't get that amount, sucks to be the hospital, I guess. They've had how long to pay this?

[rhianna]

Does Medicaid pay the whole bill or do they negotiate down and just pay part of it? I've always heard that medicaid reimbursement is horrible, but that is more for doctors' visits and maybe the NICU is different.

[WonderingInWA]

So if they don't get that amount, sucks to be the hospital, I guess. They've had how long to pay this?

They've had at least 4 years to pay it because the premature baby in question is 4. But they were going back and forth with the hospital trying to arrive at a final dollar amount, so it sounds like they finally have it and it's $100K.

I guess I just don't understand why they would continue having children when they know the first one hasn't been paid for. They have four children aged four and under (and she just had a C-section yesterday, so che-ching!). They do NOT deserve handouts. I understand the desire for more children, but honestly, if you can't afford them, then don't have them.

[burntnorton]

Does Medicaid pay the whole bill or do they negotiate down and just pay part of it? I've always heard that medicaid reimbursement is horrible, but that is more for doctors' visits and maybe the NICU is different.

Medicaid and Medicare rates are set centrally. Hospitals that choose to participate havr to accept them as payment in full.

[lilwriter85]

They've had at least 4 years to pay it because the premature baby in question is 4. But they were going back and forth with the hospital trying to arrive at a final dollar amount, so it sounds like they finally have it and it's $100K.

I guess I just don't understand why they would continue having children when they know the first one hasn't been paid for. They have four children aged four and under (and she just had a C-section yesterday, so che-ching!). They do NOT deserve handouts. I understand the desire for more children, but honestly, if you can't afford them, then don't have them.

I think a lot of it has to do with them having a type of "entitled Christian attitude". Their belief is too much of "God other Christianswill provide. They really don't evaluate their situation well. Like I said before, I do understand that they might have the desire to have more children, but they haven't been in the best situation finance wise since the birth of little Tait. I think many people wouldn't have judged them for accepting the Medicaid when it was offered to them. Some conservatives do understand why people sometimes need to accept government assistance.

[Mama Mia]

I really don't understand why people object to their negotiating down the bill ? If the insurance company had paid it would have been at a reduced contracted rate. If medicaid paid it would have been a their contracted rate. Why should individuals be any different ?

On recent lab tests I had the "charge" for a blood test was $100, but the contracted insurance rate was only $10.

Also, I am completely in favor of medicaid - but don't understand the venom about doing a private fundraiser. What difference does it make ?

It seems sometimes people on here snark on fundamentalists for actions that wouldn't be snarkable if it was anyone else.

If I had a family member who had an expensive preemie birth and then wanted more children I wouldn't think they should pay medicaid back before they had another kid, so why should someone who is doing it privately ?

[lilwriter85]

I really don't understand why people object to their negotiating down the bill ? If the insurance company had paid it would have been at a reduced contracted rate. If medicaid paid it would have been a their contracted rate. Why should individuals be any different ?

On recent lab tests I had the "charge" for a blood test was $100, but the contracted insurance rate was only $10.

Also, I am completely in favor of medicaid - but don't understand the venom about doing a private fundraiser. What difference does it make ?

It seems sometimes people on here snark on fundamentalists for actions that wouldn't be snarkable if it was anyone else.

If I had a family member who had an expensive preemie birth and then wanted more children I wouldn't think they should pay medicaid back before they had another kid, so why should someone who is doing it privately ?

Years ago, before I found FJ, I found myself snarking on non-fundie was doing private fundraisers to pay her medical bills. The person was Jackie Saburido a burn victim. She was from South American country and she was injured in a car accident caused by a drunk driver. The car set on fire and she was burned very severely. She remained in the U.S. and had a site that collected donations. She was snarked quite by many on the Internet. Her situation annoyed me for a couple of reasons related to an ongoing controversial debate here in the U.S. regarding immigration.

With the Zimmermans, the bill they need to pay back is the hospital. They rejected Medicaid assistance that was offered to them after their son's birth. Their son's low birth weight gave them the qualification.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

:lol: Surely, you jest! :lol: Helpmeets work.... :lol: ah, you're funny. But then again, maybe if she has a centerpiece and her cabinet top is clear......

Thanks, VooDoo. I needed that. My bipolar I client went off her meds and had to be hospitalized today, but I just spit cranberry juice through my nose. I mean, Gawd shall Bless the Proverbs Woman with a centerpiece!

[WonderingInWA]

I really don't understand why people object to their negotiating down the bill ? If the insurance company had paid it would have been at a reduced contracted rate. If medicaid paid it would have been a their contracted rate. Why should individuals be any different ?

On recent lab tests I had the "charge" for a blood test was $100, but the contracted insurance rate was only $10.

Also, I am completely in favor of medicaid - but don't understand the venom about doing a private fundraiser. What difference does it make ?

It seems sometimes people on here snark on fundamentalists for actions that wouldn't be snarkable if it was anyone else.

If I had a family member who had an expensive preemie birth and then wanted more children I wouldn't think they should pay medicaid back before they had another kid, so why should someone who is doing it privately ?

I don't think anyone is really criticizing them for negotiating the bill down. It's actually opened my eyes personally to the idea that would even be possible (I truly despise the medical community and their pricing). What is most at point here is that this couple denied Medicaid, which was rightfully theirs because they, too, pay taxes which fund the program and certainly their situation was a justified cause to take the benefit offered to them. But they didn't by some high horse they rode in on (the attitude is part of it), and now FOUR YEARS LATER, they are asking for handouts. Yes, good for them that they negotiated the bill down, but I just feel the way they describe their thinking about not forming a tax-free situation for their donors as selfishness and begging.

I do understand wanting more children, I do. But 4 under the age of 4 and then begging for money that they won't be paying taxes on is just wrong. JMHO.

ETA: Just to clarify, I don't despise the medical community, I despise the PRICING of medical care.

[lilwriter85]

I don't think anyone is really criticizing them for negotiating the bill down. It's actually opened my eyes personally to the idea that would even be possible (I truly despise the medical community and their pricing). What is most at point here is that this couple denied Medicaid, which was rightfully theirs because they, too, pay taxes which fund the program and certainly their situation was a justified cause to take the benefit offered to them. But they didn't by some high horse they rode in on (the attitude is part of it), and now FOUR YEARS LATER, they are asking for handouts. Yes, good for them that they negotiated the bill down, but I just feel the way they describe their thinking about not forming a tax-free situation for their donors as selfishness and begging.

I do understand wanting more children, I do. But 4 under the age of 4 and then begging for money that they won't be paying taxes on is just wrong. JMHO.

ETA: Just to clarify, I don't despise the medical community, I despise the PRICING of medical care.

I think this what really sums up my feelings on the Zimmermans.