19 Kids and Counting 2013 - The Duggars Do Part 2

[singsingsing]

Why are all of Smugger and Anna's children's jender reveals a big deal? A cake for Mackynzie, a sky writer for Michael. Who knows what M3's will be? Even J'Chelle's were just showing the ultrasound and announcing what it was. I think Smugger requests that his children's jenders be announced in the most over the top way possible. Could you be more of a fame seeker than you already are, Smugger? What makes you and Anna so special that your kids jender reveals have to be an over the top spectacle? Do you think we care?

It's because they don't have anything interesting to actually film. They either have to invent things, or make a huge deal out of mundane things.

[alba]

Why are all of Smugger and Anna's children's jender reveals a big deal? A cake for Mackynzie, a sky writer for Michael. Who knows what M3's will be? Even J'Chelle's were just showing the ultrasound and announcing what it was. I think Smugger requests that his children's jenders be announced in the most over the top way possible. Could you be more of a fame seeker than you already are, Smugger? What makes you and Anna so special that your kids jender reveals have to be an over the top spectacle? Do you think we care?

I think it has to do with the whole fundie gender essentialism obsession. When your kid's entire future depends upon his/her reproductive organs, they're kind of important. Not so much when you actually let them choose a future.

[ljohnson2006]

It's crazy that Fundie's lives are based on what's between their legs. That's also very sad.

[Tom Slick]

It's crazy that Fundie's lives are based on what's between their legs. That's also very sad.

Just the females, the men are exempt.

[EmmieJ]

Regarding the female sibs, it's possible that they can get out of the show appearances if they marry and their new headship refuses to participate in the show after the wedding. Which is maybe why they haven't had any courtships. JB knows that if a J'slave marries and her husband says no, that's it. There's nothing he can do about it, and any potential new participants / material for the show is lost. Between ceding authority and control over a J'daughter to a husband who may not go along and the fact that the household loses a J'slave to help keep things running (and J'chelle relatively sane) I wouldn't be surprised if those are the real reasons for lack of courtships for the girls.

ETA: Another reason is that other fundie families may not want to be associated with the blasphemous Duggars. Those girls' options are really limited.

I have long thought that the primary reason why the older daughters are still single and living at home (doing all the work) is exactly the above. As soon as any of his daughters marry, JimBob loses control over them, and can no longer tell them what to do. They would also lose the free labor that daughter provides the household.

None of the following scenarios are likely to be appealing to J'Boob:

1. Fundie guy is interested in one of the older daughters. He says he'd be willing to relocate to the Duggars' hometown, iffen a small home of some kind could be provided for him and his new bride. He's willing to sign the dotted line to give up his privacy and be on the show. But since he's moving away from his own area, he'd either need to start or re-start his own small business. Better not be car sales or towing! Perhaps he could start a tree trimming business. So why would fundie guy be willing to do all this? Probably some sort of trouble back home, desperate for money, or just an opportunist who wants to be on tv.

2. Fundie guy expresses interest in one of the older daughters. But he is full-on fundie, and has no interest in being on tv, nor does he want his bride-to-be to remain on tv. He wants her to come live with him, in his hometown, live a modest life having as many babies as possible. Better pick one of the younger adult daughters. There goes JimBob's control over one of his children, and he runs up against a problem with the TLC contract, which I believe may stipulate that for filming purposes, all of the children must participate.

So he can't let any of them go; but if he allows one of them to marry a fundie who says they want to be on the show, he's opening another can of worms. What if the guy is a creep who makes passes at his sisters-in-law - on camera! What if the guy starts demanding that his wife get paid a fair percentage share of the TLC money? Oh noes - can't have that.

So I don't see any of those girls having the slightest hint of courtship until JB is certain that TLC is done with him and his family. (And even then, only grudgingly because that free labor is hard to give up.)

[Buzzard]

Why are all of Smugger and Anna's children's jender reveals a big deal? A cake for Mackynzie, a sky writer for Michael. Who knows what M3's will be? Even J'Chelle's were just showing the ultrasound and announcing what it was. I think Smugger requests that his children's jenders be announced in the most over the top way possible. Could you be more of a fame seeker than you already are, Smugger? What makes you and Anna so special that your kids jender reveals have to be an over the top spectacle? Do you think we care?

I cant believe they couldnt get frothy to do the reveal for them. Oh wait, they're not even important enough for him to care... :nenner:

[alba]

Just the females, the men are exempt.

Eh, not entirely. They're not as restricted, but they're still expected to be able to provide for a family and fit into masculine roles. No being a stay-at-home-dad and writing poetry while the kids are napping.

[JenniferJuniper]

I don't see any of those girls having the slightest hint of courtship until JB is certain that TLC is done with him and his family. (And even then, only grudgingly because that free labor is hard to give up.)

Agree. The show is the most important thing to Boob and the show is the biggest hindrance to any of the daughters being married. As worldly as they are, they've become freaks within their own community, and I can't see any suitable partners taking an interest in being on a reality show partly edited by his father-in-law. It flies in the face of the whole headship thing.

On balance, I think this is a good thing for the daughters. I know many people think the girls will be "free" once they marry, but I think they'll probably have more difficult lives if they marry Gothard men via courtship. The perks of wealth and pseudo-fame will disappear, there will be no more travel, and whatever camaraderie exists between sisters will be gone. Sure at least the kids will be hers, but a married daughter would be on her own and at the mercy of her extreme fundie husband, probably living far away from the young buddies she raised. Pris Waller might be content with her lot, but I can't see Jessa Duggar feeling the same way. She'd probably prefer to hang around the TTH eating bon bons.

I'm not sure how much independence Jim Bob would ever allow them, but once the cameras are gone and the "girls" start moving into their mid and late 20's, maybe they can prevail upon him to lighten up. He's a cheap bastard after all, and as kids grow up and the value of the older daughters' labor diminishes, they'll become extra mouths he'll need to feed post-TLC.

[Dandruff]

JenniferJuniper wrote:

The show is the most important thing to Boob and the show is the biggest hindrance to any of the daughters being married. As worldly as they are, they've become freaks within their own community, and I can't see any suitable partners taking an interest in being on a reality show partly edited by his father-in-law. It flies in the face of the whole headship thing.

I agree that the show is the biggest hindrance but thought a Bates/Paine/Waller type guy might be able to deal with it. On the other hand, neither they nor any other guy appear to be showing any interest...so maybe not.

[Markie]

I think, in her head, Jill is preparing herself to marry a man who is a "missionary" someplace in Central America. He'll "missionary" and she'll deliver babies and "help" women. They'll have their own flock of "slaves" who will be cared for by one of the forgotten girls....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. I can totally see Jill getting married in a few years. She could take her Jenny along to help out and homeschool her kids while she attends births and is a good Missionary wife. Jenny will be happy to be with her Buddy Jill!

[gustava]

Would an ATIer marry a Vision Foramite? Or do VFers consider themselves superior socially?

[tabitha2]

there are many who follow both, probably most actually, so it probably is not an issue usually. for a big name closer to doug Phillips personally family like the botkins it might cause a controversy with loyalty and marketing ones though...they are competing after all.

[JenniferJuniper]

I agree that the show is the biggest hindrance but thought a Bates/Paine/Waller type guy might be able to deal with it. On the other hand, neither they nor any other guy appear to be showing any interest...so maybe not.

Those whose families have been featured on TV might have less trouble with the reality show itself, but there can only be one headship and where the show is concerned, JB would almost certainly want to maintain control. Major conflict potential there.

With that said, I could see someone like David Waller being quite happy to play along for the sake of being on TV regularly. He’s a prancing attention whore. But there aren't too many David Wallers out there and if another did happen to come along, Boob probably wouldn't let him within a mile of one of his girls.

[lilith]

Would an ATIer marry a Vision Foramite? Or do VFers consider themselves superior socially?

VF sell Duggar merchandise, have given Michelle their Mother of the Year award, and regularly feature Duggars at conferences. They definitely wouldn't have an issue with a child of a VF family marrying a Duggar, even though VF does view themselves as very upper middle class and ATI as working class/redneck. The Duggars are fundie royalty, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had more marital success among image conscious VFers than the more Puritan ATIers. A Duggar Princess/ Phillips Boy match is within the realms of possibility - and I'm sure Dougie would love to have one of his sons featured on the show, promoting VF and endorsing and thus selling many products to fund Doug's manly romps, intern wages and period costumes.

[roddma]

Also its highly likely that Halle has had a trainer & a personal chef since she was in her early 20s. Making her much, much fitter & healthier than J'chelle.

Michelle also had 4 c sections , two msicarriages, and a preemie. I really don't think Michelle will be pregnant again. Her body has been through so much birth and pregnancy unlike Halle. On the other hand Kelly Bates never really had trouble until the last two or three. In their eyes, Halle would be wrong to focus more on career than babies.

[snarkyjan]

VF sell Duggar merchandise, have given Michelle their Mother of the Year award, and regularly feature Duggars at conferences. They definitely wouldn't have an issue with a child of a VF family marrying a Duggar, even though VF does view themselves as very upper middle class and ATI as working class/redneck. The Duggars are fundie royalty, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had more marital success among image conscious VFers than the more Puritan ATIers. A Duggar Princess/ Phillips Boy match is within the realms of possibility - and I'm sure Dougie would love to have one of his sons featured on the show, promoting VF and endorsing and thus selling many products to fund Doug's manly romps, intern wages and period costumes.

Hey, be nice. Anaconda hunts are expensive.

[roddma]

If the Duggar grils get married, they will likely have to live less than cushy lifestyle unless they find Fundie royalty. If I'm not mistaken, I read the suitor must be close or equal to the current income of the bride's family. It would be hard to find anyone that matches the current lifestyle of the Duggars even in mainstream Christianity. I think that Boob will help set the guys up somehow. I still don't see that there is room in Springdale for 10 Duggars to have a used car lots or tow truck business.

[Mama Mia]

I really think most of those girls are purposefully waiting as long as possible to get married. They have a great deal of money, they get to travel, and as the little kids get older they have less work, and they can get their middle buddies to take over most of the chores and little buddy childcare.

If they wait until they are 25-28 to get married they will have at least a few years with no diapers to change before they start having their own children.

And a woman of even average fertility who starts having children at 20, when she is at her most fertile and with over two decades to bare children, could easily end up with over a dozen children, and maybe even have a super size family like their mother.

If she waits until 28, with fewer years and when fertility starts to slowly decline, she will likely end up with a more manageable 6-8, and even if she is hyper-fertile will probably not go over 10. Having been brought up raising a billion siblings, a family of 6-10 would probably seem very doable.

She can still follow her religion and be open to children and not use any birth control and not end up with an overwhelming family size.

[Mela99]

I really think most of those girls are purposefully waiting as long as possible to get married. They have a great deal of money, they get to travel, and as the little kids get older they have less work, and they can get their middle buddies to take over most of the chores and little buddy childcare.

If they wait until they are 25-28 to get married they will have at least a few years with no diapers to change before they start having their own children.

And a woman of even average fertility who starts having children at 20, when she is at her most fertile and with over two decades to bare children, could easily end up with over a dozen children, and maybe even have a super size family like their mother.

If she waits until 28, with fewer years and when fertility starts to slowly decline, she will likely end up with a more manageable 6-8, and even if she is hyper-fertile will probably not go over 10. Having been brought up raising a billion siblings, a family of 6-10 would probably seem very doable.

She can still follow her religion and be open to children and not use any birth control and not end up with an overwhelming family size.

All good points, but...

1. Would they really have a say in waiting if Boob found someone he liked to be a son in law?

2. Umm... are the J'slaves even clever enough to work that out as a plan? It would give me great hope if they were.

[tabitha2]

plus they have plenty of younger and maybe prettier competition...whose to say they can afford to pass on a decent looking young man with his own place and steady job who ticks all the right boxes when they might not get another chance?

[socalrules]

I really think most of those girls are purposefully waiting as long as possible to get married. They have a great deal of money, they get to travel, and as the little kids get older they have less work, and they can get their middle buddies to take over most of the chores and little buddy childcare.

If they wait until they are 25-28 to get married they will have at least a few years with no diapers to change before they start having their own children.

And a woman of even average fertility who starts having children at 20, when she is at her most fertile and with over two decades to bare children, could easily end up with over a dozen children, and maybe even have a super size family like their mother.

If she waits until 28, with fewer years and when fertility starts to slowly decline, she will likely end up with a more manageable 6-8, and even if she is hyper-fertile will probably not go over 10. Having been brought up raising a billion siblings, a family of 6-10 would probably seem very doable.

She can still follow her religion and be open to children and not use any birth control and not end up with an overwhelming family size.

I don't think the girls have a lot of money. I doubt Jim Bob gives them little more than enough to buy make-up. Its unlikely they get individual checks as TLC tends to give one big check. I also don't think that they have any say in when they marry. Its all up to Jim Bob. They are completely under their headship's control and they will never get married until the show ends. Even then, I think Jim Bob will still keep the whole group together for a few years so he can take them cross-country to all the churches that pay to hear the same crap.

Also, I doubt the girls are thinking that the later they get married the less children they will have. If they are capable of realizing that, they should be capable of knowing that they don't have to continually be pregnant like their mother.

[Mama Mia]

I don't think the girls have a lot of money. I doubt Jim Bob gives them little more than enough to buy make-up. Its unlikely they get individual checks as TLC tends to give one big check. I also don't think that they have any say in when they marry. Its all up to Jim Bob. They are completely under their headship's control and they will never get married until the show ends. Even then, I think Jim Bob will still keep the whole group together for a few years so he can take them cross-country to all the churches that pay to hear the same crap.

Also, I doubt the girls are thinking that the later they get married the less children they will have. If they are capable of realizing that, they should be capable of knowing that they don't have to continually be pregnant like their mother.

They seem to at least have spending money for fashionable clothes, make up, going out to eat, etc. Compare the pictures now to just a few years ago with their frumpers and the crowded house to the big one, and the change from their perspective must be huge.

Although they talk a lot about Jim Bob being in charge, the impression I get is that Michelle is much more in control of the actual decisions. And I don't see her being in a big rush to move those girls out.

Also, I think it would be much easier for the girls to rationalize enjoying their current life and not pushing for a courtship while knowing that obviously they won't have as many children as mom --- than to completely go against their beliefs and actively use birth control to achieve the same result.

Probably one or two of them would like to hurry up and get married, but I couldn't see any of them pushing for it unless some boy who they think is absolutely fantastic shows an interest.

[Dandruff]

I think the girls would love to court and get married. They see Anna with her own home, her own kids, affection from her husband, treated as an adult, with probably many more day-to-day choices than any of them ever get. Anna doesn't sleep in a dorm, regularly prepare meals for 20, or get sent off for re-indoctrination. It could be that part of the reason none are married is that once one of them is let out and reports back, the rest of them (working even harder) won't be willing to do it anymore.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think the girls would love to court and get married. They see Anna with her own home, her own kids, affection from her husband, treated as an adult, with probably many more day-to-day choices than any of them ever get. Anna doesn't sleep in a dorm, regularly prepare meals for 20, or get sent off for re-indoctrination. It could be that part of the reason none are married is that once one of them is let out and reports back, the rest of them (working even harder) won't be willing to do it anymore.

But they know Josh is a tool, probably even better than we do. I doubt they envy Anna's life and I wouldn't be surprised if they expect to do much better, with regard to husbands as well as quality of life. Whether they actually do is an open question, but I suspect they've got much higher aspirations.

The workload at the TTH is also continuing to lighten, and after raising so many kids I can’t imagine a single one of them being overly eager to get started on having her own. I know they’ve been raised to believe it’s their sole purpose in life but still, the thought of having my own pack of howlers in a few short years would probably make me physically ill. Anna’s well on her way; by the time M3 comes along she’ll have had 3 kids in less than 3.75 years and she’ll be expected to get started on M4 asap.

Which is not to say they don't want their own lives, but they may be just fine with maintaining the status quo for the time being. It will be interesting to see what happens once the show finally ends.

[love2scrap]

i would SO watch a VF/Duggar wedding on tv!! Just to see Dougie puffing out his chest and being manly men at the costume fest... it would be a snark goldmine!!