Anna Sofia and Elizabeth Botkin Webinar "Reclaiming Beauty"

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I've spent the last few days doing (academic) research about women in the early Christian church and reading the high praise lavished by the church fathers on those women who left their husbands and children (or sometimes parents, pre-marriage, as young as 12), became ascetics or martyrs, and completely neglected their physical appearance...so the Robotkins are particularly funny to me today. How things have changed.

[Cran]

I've spent the last few days doing (academic) research about women in the early Christian church and reading the high praise lavished by the church fathers on those women who left their husbands and children (or sometimes parents, pre-marriage, as young as 12), became ascetics or martyrs, and completely neglected their physical appearance...so the Robotkins are particularly funny to me today. How things have changed.

You probably read about Maria Aegyptiaca (or however she is spelled in English!) who went naked after so many years in the desert and her only over was her hair.... and Pelagia, who was a prostitute, or so the legend tells, and after her conversion lived a life of penance in Jerusalem, clothed as and believed to be a man.

While the OT does praise beauty in women, the NT and the early church considerably downgraded it, and this seminary is, in my opinion, a poor attempt to prove to the world, whom they claim to despise so much, that being fundie doesn't equal being frumpy.

[Angri-la]

189 going now.

125 maybe.

2126 invited!! Botkins must have a lot of FB friends!!

I am not counted on the list of those attending, as I didn't think "Angrila Freejinger" would pass without notice, and I have no other FB that I could use for this purpose.

[Peas n carrots]

Wow, so they are charging $44 for a webinar. Essentially, you are paying a good chunck of cash to watch a class online over several weeks, when you could do this for free over the span of one or two evenings in one week.

As for $130 for beauty a year...for me, that is one pair of good running shoes. I go through 3-4 pairs a year on those alone. I look at it this way...it's cheaper than being diabetic!

[Deleted05]

Why are the Botkin sisters so popular?

I think part of it is because they're so mysterious. They never post anything public about themselves a la Jasmine or the Maxwells, etc. Heck, they didn't even post when their nephews/nieces were born (I know their brothers have kids, I just don't know when or how many.) Everything they write is instruction or criticism, and they are never wrong. I get this feeling that, intentional or not, they elevate themselves over the common SAHD, and part of that may be why they have such a following.

[fundies_like_zombies]

Because their daddy is besties with Doug Phillips, and Doug Phillips is supreme master of Vision Forum - one of the main fundie fixes for gender stereotypical toys, clothing, articles, events... Also, they wrote a book! Which, well, was pretty much just whatever daddy dearest told them to write, but it seemed pretty popular. :P Kinda sad to think they will never get a chance to actually put into practice everything they are learning about being a perfect submissive wife... but hey, at least they can be the shining guide for other girls down the path of righteousness! Just $19.95 (plus S&H) please!

Soooooo if they are the perfect SAHDs living the perfect SAHD life what happens when they are 40 and not married?

Like if the girls who look up to them are single now and follow all the Botkin advice (books webinar dvd) and then get married they have gone passed the stage that the Botkin girls are stuck at. And then the Botkin sisters are less likely to attract a following from the next generation of fundy girls as they will be that much older than them and still unmarried.

[meda]

I am not counted on the list of those attending, as I didn't think "Angrila Freejinger" would pass without notice, and I have no other FB that I could use for this purpose.

Yeah, I received an email about it because I am not FB connected, I am assuming they cast the net wider and have more participating than what is on FB

[Peas n carrots]

Soooooo if they are the perfect SAHDs living the perfect SAHD life what happens when they are 40 and not married?

Like if the girls who look up to them are single now and follow all the Botkin advice (books webinar dvd) and then get married they have gone passed the stage that the Botkin girls are stuck at. And then the Botkin sisters are less likely to attract a following from the next generation of fundy girls as they will be that much older than them and still unmarried.

If you were a Botkin would you want to get married and follow a new headship as well as pop out a dozen kids? They have it good right now...I'm sure they are milking this for all they can.

Also, I wonder with some of the high profile maidens if they put off suitors because they aren't wallflowers? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of young fundie men find them intimidating.

[nokidsmom]

If you were a Botkin would you want to get married and follow a new headship as well as pop out a dozen kids? They have it good right now...I'm sure they are milking this for all they can.

Also, I wonder with some of the high profile maidens if they put off suitors because they aren't wallflowers? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of young fundie men find them intimidating.

This plus being closely linked to the VF supreme master probably intimidates some young fundie guys even further.

[Angri-la]

Special delivery from the "Reclaiming Beauty" FB page. The image is really boring; a blond with a grid across her face.

Robotkinettes:

Earlier this year, 18-year-old Florence Colgate was dubbed “Britain’s Most Beautiful Face,†not by the authority of beauty pageant judges, but by the authority of science and math. Miss Colgate’s face won out over 8,000 others on the basis of best match-up with a mathematically devised blueprint for perfect facial proportions based on the Golden Ratio.

Her “scientifically proven†prettiness sparked a huge debate that still rages all over the internet. Hundreds protested (for good reason) that the mystery of what makes one face more attractive than another can’t be solved with a formula. A much bigger concern, however, was over what that formula would do to the self-image of millions who can’t measure up to it: Women would feel like they were doomed to ugliness because their faces didn’t match the grid.

Most of us, of course, don’t need the aid of a scientific beauty-o-meter giving us an exact reading on our facial deficiencies to fear that our looks just aren’t “good enough.†If this is how we feel, we need to first take comfort in the fact that God has not given us one prescribed standard for physical perfection that we all have to match up to in order to be beautiful – a good thing, since He created us all to look very different. Also, His purpose for the diversity in our looks was not so that we could hold beauty contests. Beauty is not a game to win or lose, but something we all should be cultivating by the proper stewardship of our bodies to glorify Him. This is a good reminder for both the girls who invest inordinate amounts of time into their looks aiming to come out on top, and the girls who have given up trying because they feel they can’t compete.

When temped to resent the reality that some appear to be crated a little more equal than others, we need to remember that God has a purpose for everything He does – the people He creates and also the way He creates them. God is not color- or beauty-blind, and His Word often uses objective terms like “ruddy,†“lovely to look at,†“without blemish†and also “mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind†to describe His creations. But asking why bad hair happens to good people is as useless as the pot asking the potter why he was made a pot. We may never know why some were created with more proportioned features or better skin than others, but He does, and we can rejoice in the fact that we don’t have to be “equally†made to be “wonderfully and fearfully made.†(Psa. 139:14)

God has given Miss Colgate an objectively beautiful face – one that is much more symmetrical and aesthetically “perfect†than mine. Does that make her more beautiful? Does that make her better? Does that mean that God did not create my face equally well? These questions miss the point. What matters is that He gave us each the faces that pleased Him, and that we are both equally accountable to Him to steward the bodies He gave us and glorify Him in them.

[MamaJunebug]

Now they've verbed the noun "steward"?

Man, this makes my tummy hurt. I'm back in 1962, and it's all about beauty for girls. Girls are encouraged to complete high school but not really frowned upon if they don't.

My dad is telling me I can be a doctor, a lawyer or a CPA, and my mom is listening, skeptical and bemused, as she stirs the soup and holds a baby on her pregnant self.

She'll be thrilled if I complete high school (she wasn't allowed to) and get a nice job as a receptionist before I find a good man.

Both my folks are very nervous about my facial acne that just seems to be getting worse and worse - because who's going to want a pimply med school applicant or a pimply girlfriend or a pimply receptionist?

The Botkins' emphasis on female appearance angers me.

[Marian the Librarian]

The latest report from the webinar's exchequer:

254 "going" x $44 = $11,176.

ETA:

AND, they're picking on none other than Kate Middleton!

Kate Middleton is representing one monarchy, one nation, and one culture -- we are supposed to be representing a very different Monarch, citizenship, and culture.

:roll:

[Angri-la]

Now they've verbed the noun "steward"?

Man, this makes my tummy hurt. I'm back in 1962, and it's all about beauty for girls. Girls are encouraged to complete high school but not really frowned upon if they don't.

My dad is telling me I can be a doctor, a lawyer or a CPA, and my mom is listening, skeptical and bemused, as she stirs the soup and holds a baby on her pregnant self.

She'll be thrilled if I complete high school (she wasn't allowed to) and get a nice job as a receptionist before I find a good man.

Both my folks are very nervous about my facial acne that just seems to be getting worse and worse - because who's going to want a pimply med school applicant or a pimply girlfriend or a pimply receptionist?

The Botkins' emphasis on female appearance angers me.

Me too. Part of me is doing the webinar to snark, but part of me wants to know what they are telling young women. Probably, as you say, pages out of a 1962 Teen Miss magazine (substituting "daddy" for "boyfriend" and "courting" for "dating". (I still haven't paid, so I am not in the count.)

I am sure your parents couldn't have been prouder of you.

[MamaJunebug]

The latest report from the webinar's exchequer:

254 "going" x $44 = $11,176.

ETA:

AND, they're picking on none other than Kate Middleton!

:roll:

By accounts, Kate and Pippa were pimped into high-society culture to benefit themselves and the family business(es) by their parents. In similar fashion, Geoff & Vicki have at least encouraged their own daughters to doll up, truss up and pose sulkily as fundy foxes - all to benefit the Western Conservatory and allied commercial efforts.

Who is their Monarch, again? God or Geoff?

To Angri-la, thanks, dove, my folks were proud of me, eventually. I feel sorry for them, having had me, first - a tough nut to figure out for first-time rents. ;)

[Marian the Librarian]

In similar fashion, Geoff & Vicki have at least encouraged their own daughters to doll up, truss up and pose sulkily as fundy foxes - all to benefit the Western Conservatory and allied commercial efforts.

Who is their Monarch, again? God or Geoff?

:clap: Amen. That, my dear MJB, is the $64,000 question.

[cupertino]

If anyone's interested in what the early church taught about "beauty" should read Tertullian:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ian27.html

It's lengthy, but a really fascinating look at what fashion and grooming practices were popular at the time of the early christians. Most outrageous quote: "I fear the neck, beset with pearl and emerald nooses, will give no room to the broadsword!"

Don't wear makeup and jewelry - be a martyr instead. Granted Tertullian was just one guy, but I don't see how the Botkins can call themselves christian and push this "make yourself pretty for your husband" agenda.

[Cran]

I also recommend Cyprian, De habitu virginum. Women who use black paint around their eyes or colour their hair with henna are DOOMED! Doomed, I say!

We read this in a seminary once, and I nearly fell of my chair laughing, because I sat there with my lips painted scarlet, with black eyeshadow and red hair of not so natural origin.

[cupertino]

From Cyprian:

Or, if she must glory in the flesh, then assuredly let her glory when she is tortured in confession of the name; when a woman

is found to be stronger than the tortures; when she suffers fire, or the cross, or the sword, or the wild beasts, that she may be crowned. These are the precious jewels of the flesh, these are the better ornaments of the body.

Torture is preferable to makeup? Wow, someone better tell the Botkins..

Sounds like the early christians also hooked up at wedding receptions:

"Some are not ashamed to be present at marriage parties, and in that freedom of lascivious discourse

to mingle in unchaste conversation, to hear what is not becoming, to say what is not lawful, to

expose themselves, to be present in the midst of disgraceful words and drunken banquets, by which

the ardour of lust is kindled, and the bride is animated to bear, and the bridegroom to dare

lewdness." Someone better tell Josh and Anna that first kiss was lewd and REAL christians wait until after the wedding.

Edited to add: Cyprian says women who wear makeup are like the harlot in the book of Revelation. Ok Botkin ladies, you've come a long way baby.

[JesusFightClub]

When are the Robotkins getting pulled from the shelf for being stale dated?

Ah, Experiencedd, you will know of this. We call it "skipping" I think Americans call it "dumpster diving"...not everything which is out of date is inedible, you get me?

Maybe someone will come along one night. Attired in black and keeping a close eye out for security, he (or she) will fish a Robotkin from where they nestle amongst piles of frumpers and discarded 19th century books on being a godly wife, quickly wipe her down a bit, and pack her in the rucksack to take home. The other one will just have to wait. Lucky the council's only doing fortnightly bin collections...TBC...

;)

[MamaJunebug]

Odd you should post that, JFC...I was just thinking that if/when AS & E marry, it will be a double wedding.

And then, of course, that will become all the rage and we'll see young couples pushed into marriage so quickly it'll make Steve-o's pointy head spin !!

[Angri-la]

I also recommend Cyprian, De habitu virginum. Women who use black paint around their eyes or colour their hair with henna are DOOMED! Doomed, I say!

I'm screwed, but the VIP room in hell will be fun: you and you and YOU will be there, says the henna haired woman with kohl eyeliner on.

[Witsec7]

I'm screwed, but the VIP room in hell will be fun: you and you and YOU will be there, says the henna haired woman with kohl eyeliner on.

And just what kind of a fetching outfit will you be wearing. I can get into the VIP room, I'll just tell them I'm with the band.

[thoughtful]

I'm screwed, but the VIP room in hell will be fun: you and you and YOU will be there, says the henna haired woman with kohl eyeliner on.

Hey, does that mean we can get back out of Hell just by clicking our heels together three times? :D

[Angri-la]

And just what kind of a fetching outfit will you be wearing. I can get into the VIP room, I'll just tell them I'm with the band.

I will be wearing the purple Poiret, dear, and be sitting with Bette Davis: You can't miss us. And, yes, you will be with the band; I am sure Jimi Hendrix would like another shot.

Nice catch, thoughtful. No, I am drag queen trapped in a woman's body; Judy lines fall off my fingertips without thinking.

[Arete]

I also recommend Cyprian, De habitu virginum. Women who use black paint around their eyes or colour their hair with henna are DOOMED! Doomed, I say!

We read this in a seminary once, and I nearly fell of my chair laughing, because I sat there with my lips painted scarlet, with black eyeshadow and red hair of not so natural origin.

My aunt gave me that treatise of Cyprian's in a booklet. In Greek. Then told me to read it every day for a year. This would bring me a fetching husband. I read it once so I could slag it with authority. Rolled my eyes. :roll: Moved along.

Needless to say I'm on the clearance rack now. :lol: