Anna Sofia and Elizabeth Botkin Webinar "Reclaiming Beauty"

[Trynn]

Up till now, I don't think I spent anywhere near $130 a year for clothing either. I probably spent about $100 in new clothes this summer, but that's because

1. I needed clothes for work

2. I finally realized that people will think I'm older if I try to dress my age. I'm really short, so I constantly get mistaken for 12. When I try to dress my age (which I'm still learning to do) people will guess me at 16-18. So, anything I bought from the girls' section except basics has to go, and I'm trying to shop in the adult section which is hard because nothing there fits me properly...

3. And I really did need new pairs of pants. The ones I currently own were wearing out in areas that you don't want to have holes, even outside of fundy-land.

Other than that... I rarely buy new clothes... shoes get purchased once every 2-5 years, and I don't wear any makeup. Maybe you could count the times I get my hair done as part of all that, so MAYBE this year I spent over $130, but that's unusual.

[Sister Mozz]

If you go to the Facebook page for this event (https://www.facebook.com/events/372613339477699/) and click on the list of people who are 'Going', there is at least one interesting name: Natalie Nyquist. I thought she was smarter than to get mixed up with these nuts!

[Anise]

I find it amusing that some fundie women defend their makeup so rigorously. I'm part of an online community that includes many fundies, and once I inadvertently created a drama fest when I pointed out that wearing makeup for the purpose of covering up was problematic for body acceptance. For them it's all about "enhancing their beauty". :roll:

In fact, it's safe to say that in this webinar, AS and E will say just that in defence of their precious makeup.

Also, color analysis? Seriously? That was popular in the 80s...

[Marian the Librarian]

If you go to the Facebook page for this event (https://www.facebook.com/events/372613339477699/) and click on the list of people who are 'Going', there is at least one interesting name: Natalie Nyquist. I thought she was smarter than to get mixed up with these nuts!

Well hush my mouth - this explains the Botkinettes' recent conversion to the church of Facebook. Let's see...as of this writing, 56 people are going, with another 26 saying "maybe"...56+26=58x$44 a pop = $3,608.

Ka-CHING!!!

[SisiL78]

Well hush my mouth - this explains the Botkinettes' recent conversion to the church of Facebook. Let's see...as of this writing, 56 people are going, with another 26 saying "maybe"...56+26=58x$44 a pop = $3,608.

Ka-CHING!!!

Am I the only one out here in FJ world who has had the thought that I could pose as a fundie and write a fundy blog and make money off of selling fundy books and fundy webinars? I mean, I could totally write a book "as good as" the Moody series.

[gustava]

Am I the only one out here in FJ world who has had the thought that I could pose as a fundie and write a fundy blog and make money off of selling fundy books and fundy webinars? I mean, I could totally write a book "as good as" the Moody series.

Better than the Moody series.

[SisiL78]

Better than the Moody series.

I have three weeks until my next semester. I think I can do it :-)

Once my roomate and I wrote a harlequin novel but never submitted it. I think i'd have to keep from writing about heaving breasts :-)

[SisiL78]

I read that, and in the comments some one asked what happens if Husband kicks it, and they answered with a LONG post. If anyone of you can get through all the fundieisms and bullshit, please tell me what the hell it says as I gave up reading the post, it made me need a drink.

http://ahthelife.blogspot.com/2008/07/w ... nging.html

She keeps repeating that "jobs are not forever" either. I don't know about any of you but a job is easier to find than a husband. I really felt queasy reading this blog entry. I wrote this once today already, but the crazy fundy logic is really starting to hurt. I try to follow their train of thought but then things start contradicting each other and make no sense. I'm an engineer, I can follow complicated things. But, this sh*t has blown my mind.

[Olive Plant]

Well hush my mouth - this explains the Botkinettes' recent conversion to the church of Facebook. Let's see...as of this writing, 56 people are going, with another 26 saying "maybe"...56+26=58x$44 a pop = $3,608.

Ka-CHING!!!

Well, maybe. Unless there are multiple FB profiles per family, which is highly likely given how many kids these people are supposed to have. Also, not everyone who RSVPs on FB goes to events, or at least that's how it's been every single time I've created event invites on FB, especially if they're public.

Regarding the comment about posing as fundie, hells yes. I was seriously thinking about starting a fundie blog and tricking it out with ads. Since the blog posts require no thought or research, I could write one in half an hour. Or less.

[Olive Plant]

One thing, though: how the heck do you justify spending $44 for a beauty seminar if your yearly beauty budget is $130? Don't these girls realize that they're total hypocrites for preaching beauty thrift and charging something like that for stuff you could find out for free? You want a good makeup tutorial, for example, there are thousands on YouTube.

But we all know it's not really about the ideals (women not working, not spending money frivolously) at all. It's about finding a way to pay the bills.

[Austin]

Of course I am going to shell out the 44 bucks for this. I want to be shown how I did it all wrong, and still ended up with the best husband on the planet (for me). Oh yes, I cannot wait to learn about "Sprucing up my Temple" from these poor, deluded

"ladies". The last blush of youth is fading from their cheeks, and in the distance? The sound of pruning shears.

[liltwinstar]

What a great way to get fundie girls/women to feel like crap about themselves. Only $130/year? Give me a break. If you have a skin condition that requires special/brand name soap, for instance, you're going to have to spend more on that. If you have sensitive skin and want "good" makeup, you'll have to shell out for that too. If you're hard to fit in any way, you have to pay more for stuff that will fit you (either to buy it that way or to have it tailored).

I'll use myself as an example - I have super dry, itchy skin, and then only thing that calms it down is cetaphil followed by lubriderm. Each of those is easlly $8-$10/bottle, depending on sales. I probably go through 3-4 of each in a year. So, we'll say $64/year, just on soap and lotion. I buy bare minerals for my foundation, and that's $30 each time I buy it, which is 2 times per year, for another $60. Finally, I wear a 36H bra, and you can't buy those at Target/Walmart. I need 3/year (at a minimum) and you can't find them for less than $50 each. That's $150/year. So I'm up to $270 per year, just for bras and (somewhat decent/healthy) skin! Pretty sure I couldn't waltz into a VF event in just those two things.

All that to say that it's total garbage. You have young women/girls in families where money is stretched as tight as it will go, and the message is that with some "creativity" you too can spend almost nothing on yourself *and* look like a supermodel!! Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Way to heap condemnation on women for not measuring up while at the same time chastizing women who do spend money on themselves.

Ugh.

[fundies_like_zombies]

i think they dress kinda nice - i don't do layers though.

They seem to be getting less natural with age.

[Deleted07]

WHOA! :shock: They remind me of the twins from The Shinning there:

[marmalade]

Better than the Moody series.

Don't forget I have that autographed Moody book that I wasted a couple of hours (with interruptions) reading. Trust me, the bar is set VEEEEERRRRRRRRRRY low here.

[SisiL78]

Here's the problem I see. If the books are too interesting or exciting they won't be fundy approved. But, we can't fall asleep when writing it.

Anne Shirley used to talk about "scope for the imagination". I believe that in writing fundy approved "literature" one must squash any scope for imagination on behalf of the reader or the writer of the book.

Don't forget I have that autographed Moody book that I wasted a couple of hours (with interruptions) reading. Trust me, the bar is set VEEEEERRRRRRRRRRY low here.

[Wandering]

What a great way to get fundie girls/women to feel like crap about themselves. Only $130/year? Give me a break. If you have a skin condition that requires special/brand name soap, for instance, you're going to have to spend more on that. If you have sensitive skin and want "good" makeup, you'll have to shell out for that too. If you're hard to fit in any way, you have to pay more for stuff that will fit you (either to buy it that way or to have it tailored).

I'll use myself as an example - I have super dry, itchy skin, and then only thing that calms it down is cetaphil followed by lubriderm. Each of those is easlly $8-$10/bottle, depending on sales. I probably go through 3-4 of each in a year. So, we'll say $64/year, just on soap and lotion. I buy bare minerals for my foundation, and that's $30 each time I buy it, which is 2 times per year, for another $60. Finally, I wear a 36H bra, and you can't buy those at Target/Walmart. I need 3/year (at a minimum) and you can't find them for less than $50 each. That's $150/year. So I'm up to $270 per year, just for bras and (somewhat decent/healthy) skin! Pretty sure I couldn't waltz into a VF event in just those two things.

All that to say that it's total garbage. You have young women/girls in families where money is stretched as tight as it will go, and the message is that with some "creativity" you too can spend almost nothing on yourself *and* look like a supermodel!! Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Way to heap condemnation on women for not measuring up while at the same time chastizing women who do spend money on themselves.

Ugh.

Agreed. I make my own personal products (shampoo, conditioner, and most of my cosmetics) to make sure they're vegan and I definitely spend over $130 a year. But (and correct if I'm wrong) but the Botkin sisters are affiliates of Vision Forum which caters to the upper class fundie set. They may spout some nonsense about having a humble spirit and not "adorning oneself" but these families will shell out big money to keep their daughters pretty. Back in my fundie princess days all the make-up I wore was from Sephora and my mom only bought my sister and I clothes from designer stores. That was the way it was for the rest of our church as well. One of the girls I used to go to church with put it really well when she said that she was given whatever she wanted but freedom. Material goods were given in place of being able to go out by yourself or having friends or reading what you wanted, especially if said goods made you more "feminine" (like makeup and other beauty products). I'm very ashamed to say that one of the hardest things about breaking away was knowing that I wouldn't have as nice of material things as the ones I was used to. These daughters aren't spending money on themselves-their parents are. So I suppose that they will be free from the condemnation they'll give to women who really do spend money on themselves as you said liltwinstar. Point being that the majority of the girls shelling out $44 for this webinar are certainly not on a $130 a year budget and most of them will be very materialistic.

[mockingbird]

What a great way to get fundie girls/women to feel like crap about themselves. Only $130/year? Give me a break. If you have a skin condition that requires special/brand name soap, for instance, you're going to have to spend more on that. If you have sensitive skin and want "good" makeup, you'll have to shell out for that too. If you're hard to fit in any way, you have to pay more for stuff that will fit you (either to buy it that way or to have it tailored).

I'll use myself as an example - I have super dry, itchy skin, and then only thing that calms it down is cetaphil followed by lubriderm. Each of those is easlly $8-$10/bottle, depending on sales. I probably go through 3-4 of each in a year. So, we'll say $64/year, just on soap and lotion. I buy bare minerals for my foundation, and that's $30 each time I buy it, which is 2 times per year, for another $60. Finally, I wear a 36H bra, and you can't buy those at Target/Walmart. I need 3/year (at a minimum) and you can't find them for less than $50 each. That's $150/year. So I'm up to $270 per year, just for bras and (somewhat decent/healthy) skin! Pretty sure I couldn't waltz into a VF event in just those two things.

All that to say that it's total garbage. You have young women/girls in families where money is stretched as tight as it will go, and the message is that with some "creativity" you too can spend almost nothing on yourself *and* look like a supermodel!! Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Way to heap condemnation on women for not measuring up while at the same time chastizing women who do spend money on themselves.

Ugh.

I am in a similar situation with dry/itchy skin - I use Cerave lotion for eczema, Eucerin for my hands, and Clinque makeup. I also can only use one brand of makeup face wipes. I've tried face creams, other wipes, and just plain soap but they all irritate my eyes. I'm afraid to try the generic version because I've had some issues with going from name brand medication to generic so I don't know if the generic version of these wipes would irritate my eyes. They are by Neutrogena and are $4-6/pack depending on the store and I usually go through about one per month. So just in make-up wipes alone that's $48-72 per year. Granted, I know I am upper-middle-class and in a position to afford fancy make-up and make-up wipes. I do think that if I couldn't I'd probably end up mostly going without make-up because I'd just be having reactions all the time. I bet Wandering is right about the clientele. (The way your friend put it is so interesting and telling to the experience.)

edit for clarity

[gustava]

WHOA! :shock: They remind me of the twins from The Shinning there:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[YPestis]

I think it's possible to spend $130/yr on beauty products. I had a period in my life when I didn't care for makeup so never bought any. The only thing I got were cheap shampoo and conditioner. I hated clothes shopping so I tried to avoid buying anything beyond basic pants and shirts. It was not a pretty phrase in my life but certainly cheap! If you really wanted to go basic, you could go really, really cheap. However, I like to dress up now and to have my hair cut and to have nice face cream so my skin doesn't flake. I enjoy having nice make up. I've also acquired a taste for them too! I still hate clothes shopping but get tired of the same clothes so I buy clothes and shoes to not look like I never wash them LOL. I'm pretty sure I spend thousands of dollars on "beauty" products and clothes alone. Jewelry can be much more depending on what I buy. It makes me feel nice to look pretty and to dress up to a nice dinner party. I feel that fundie girls should be allowed to doll up within reason since it's kind of their "livelihood" to catch a husband. $130/yr will not cover alot, even for standard hair/beauty products. Since catching a good husband is such an important part of a fundie girl's life, it seems the parents should as much on the girls' looks as they do on the son's "training".

[gardenvarietycitizen]

They're not being very modest, or focussing much on the countenance. I'd say they're far more immodest doing this than someone in shorts and a tanktop. With this much focus on the outside appearance they're being pretty immodest. It also seems like something someone would do when they really want a husband. When you go by the courtship model all you have to work with is your outer beauty. It's not like some potential fundie husband will care what's in their brains.

They're tarting this up as Biblical but as with a lot of other stuff in the VF orbit, it seems to be more about being "classy" than anything else. It's all part of the costume drama.

Meanwhile, while AS and E are worrying about home-made beauty products and color analysis, cousin Katie is in Iceland, hanging out in the Blue Lagoon (which is indeed an awesome place)

Woah, it's like the world's biggest onsen. I'd love to visit.

Agreed. I make my own personal products (shampoo, conditioner, and most of my cosmetics) to make sure they're vegan and I definitely spend over $130 a year. But (and correct if I'm wrong) but the Botkin sisters are affiliates of Vision Forum which caters to the upper class fundie set. They may spout some nonsense about having a humble spirit and not "adorning oneself" but these families will shell out big money to keep their daughters pretty. Back in my fundie princess days all the make-up I wore was from Sephora and my mom only bought my sister and I clothes from designer stores. That was the way it was for the rest of our church as well. One of the girls I used to go to church with put it really well when she said that she was given whatever she wanted but freedom. Material goods were given in place of being able to go out by yourself or having friends or reading what you wanted, especially if said goods made you more "feminine" (like makeup and other beauty products). I'm very ashamed to say that one of the hardest things about breaking away was knowing that I wouldn't have as nice of material things as the ones I was used to. These daughters aren't spending money on themselves-their parents are. So I suppose that they will be free from the condemnation they'll give to women who really do spend money on themselves as you said liltwinstar. Point being that the majority of the girls shelling out $44 for this webinar are certainly not on a $130 a year budget and most of them will be very materialistic.

Bingo. VF is very much about a certain kind of image.

I do think some of their fans (thought perhaps not those who actually pay for the webinars) ARE those kids from huge families pinching pennies until they scream, and I feel badly for them - watching all the fluffy VF-produced fairy tale crap has to be bad for their self-esteem, and I'm not even talking about the religious part.

[luckystone]

I find it amusing that some fundie women defend their makeup so rigorously. I'm part of an online community that includes many fundies, and once I inadvertently created a drama fest when I pointed out that wearing makeup for the purpose of covering up was problematic for body acceptance. For them it's all about "enhancing their beauty". :roll:

In fact, it's safe to say that in this webinar, AS and E will say just that in defence of their precious makeup.

Also, color analysis? Seriously? That was popular in the 80s...

Yes. I got into an argument with a Muslim woman about it once. I said if everything was covered except her face to avoid anyone's lust or looking attractive, what was the point of all that make-up on it? She had some garbled answer about being modest but not unattractive which didn't make much sense.

There have probably been years when I've spent less than $130 on beauty stuff (I never wear make-up and I have gone years without a professional haircut), it's tough if you add clothes to that too and need a decent pair of runners or something. $130 also won't go very far if you have to spend $44 on the seminar! I'm surprised they're figuring out money-making ventures when it's ebil for women to work. I guess it's okay if they work from their own homes.

[marmalade]

WHOA! :shock: They remind me of the twins from The Shinning there:

So, I wonder how much of that $130 AS-Bot spends on Miss Clairol? That's a lot of hair that needs coloring and root touch ups.

[nokidsmom]

No to derail thread.....I had to check this out and OMG....can't believe they did this. If this was my workplace, they would be dealing with Security immediately. Also showing her exit interview paperwork.....um isn't that confidential? Guess if they would allow these jokers into the workplace to make a big show of Rebecca no longer working for another man, guess they would allow this.

[Angri-la]

Haircolor in a box is between 6 and 15 bucks, depending on what one is using. (I was at Walgreens today and was looking at hair color, deciding, yet again, that I can't pull off purple, no matter how much I want to) Every 6 weeks= 9 x 6= 54 on the cheap end. That is more than 1/3 of their budget, even if they use the cheapest stuff on the market.

I am very seriously going to do their webinar. Because I really want to write snarky recaps about how to be a beautiful Robotkin. I honestly wonder, as I thought all it took was a glorious, Biblical countenance, and tailoring themselves to Daddy. I guess it will be a list of Geoff's preferences, so we will get to know more exciting things about Daddy. I, for one, cannot wait. I have to wait until next Wed to sign up, but make no mistake, Angrila Freejinger will be enrolled. I cannot wait to be even more fascinatingly feminine and help all you heathen ladies to Botkin up!