Female Arab/Muslim Athletes on the rise

[2xx1xy1JD]

How do we define fundamentalism?

Quite frankly, I don't think it's helpful to either say "all X are violent fundamentalists" or to say "all X are peaceful except for a handful of whack-jobs".

I think the discussion needs to be the same as it is for Christians and Jews - what are the dominant groups behind fundamentalism, what are the scary parts of their doctrine, who is supporting them, to what extent are beliefs being mainstreamed, what religious sources are being used to support the beliefs, how are those sources being twisted or used out of context, what are their pet political causes, how influential are they, what trends are we seeing, what is the relationship to other more moderate trends within the religion, etc.

[heinz57]

I mean this as an honest question.

I think, at least for me, some of the perceived double-standard when it comes to snarking on fundies and Muslims is that there seems to be a discrepancy in determining what makes a fundie between religions. I tend to think that if Muslims were judged by Christian-fundie standards, they'd mostly be fundies, and yet as someone posted above, when it comes to Islam, the only ones we call fundamentalists are the "cruel wackjobs."

Take, for instance, the link that sunnichick posted early on in this thread. She called it her "favourite hejabi fashion blog" and in one of the posts, the blogger criticizes this outfit because it reveals the shape of the wearer's ankles:

Can you imagine the fallout on here if the Duggars or the Coghlans or the Maxwells posted this picture, ankles circled, implying that this woman was immodest? We snark on Christian fundies for being "modest" by wearing longer skirts, etc, but don't say anything about the women who cover from head to toe.

(I don't mean this post to call out sunnichick specifically, despite discussing her link, as from what I've read she's a very nice person. I just mean it to help illustrate something I have always wondered: this board, by and large, respects Muslim women dressing according to their religious beliefs, but doesn't tend to respect fundie Christian women dressing according to theirs, from what I've seen.)

I checked out this blog as well and also found her quite hardcore - from what I gathered she's also an American convert, so I find her very much holier-than-you in pointing out how the others do it all wrong.

My guess is that we are less inclined to snark on the covered women for the same reason we feel less inclined to snark on the Orthodox Jewish dresscode, and the Amish etc. - because it's a continuity of what has been practiced for hundreds of years.

From my understanding in the region where Islam was born, the veiling predates Islam (there was a mesopotamian law from 13 c. BC that imposes veiling). It got inscribed in the religious texts and practiced -in different ways and to different extents- ever since. It is also inscribed in Christianity (Paul's letter to Corinthians) and was practiced for centuries, and then progressively discarded (though in Eastern Europe even some 50 years ago women in the country would always put a scarf on before leaving the house. And they probably wouldn't even think it a religious obligation, just that a 'decent woman" has to wear a scarf). So if the Duggars suddenly decided to cover, it would be anachronistic and snark-worthy. If a woman comes from a country/family where women have always covered, it's a bit different.

But as far as the mentioned blog is concerned, yes, I do find her snark-worthy at times.

Edited for typos

[latraviata]

I checked out this blog as well and also found her quite hardcore - from what I gathered she's also an American convert, so I find her very much holier-than-you in pointing out how the others do it all wrong.

My guess is that we are less inclined to snark on the covered women for the same reason we feel less inclined to snark on the Orthodox Jewish dresscode, and the Amish etc. - because it's a continuity of what has been practiced for hundreds of years.

From my understanding in the region where Islam was born, the veiling predates Islam (there was a mesopotamian law from 13 c. BC that imposes veiling). It got inscribed in the religious texts and practiced -in different ways and to different extents- ever since. It is also inscribed in Christianity (Paul's letter to Corinthians) and was practiced for centuries, and then progressively discarded (though in Eastern Europe even some 50 years ago women in the country would always put a scarf on before leaving the house. And they probably wouldn't even think it a religious obligation, just that a 'decent woman" has to wear a scarf). So if the Duggars suddenly decided to cover, it would be anachronistic and snark-worthy. If a woman comes from a country/family where women have always covered, it's a bit different.

But as far as the mentioned blog is concerned, yes, I do find her snark-worthy at times.

Edited for typos

I am sorry Heinz 57, I usually appreciate your comments but this is byond hypocrytical and not at all true.

It is in the quran that women should cover themselves and it is completely illogical to drag pre islam period customs and even a letter from Paul in order not critisise the awful based religious mores.

What for the love of sanity is so wonderful about islam??

Their stance towards homosexuals, jews, women, infidels, black people??

I provided a page with verses from the quran, it is there!

[Guest Anonymous]

latraviata, do you honestly not see the hypocrisy in your dismissal (and apparent hatred) of an entire religion which you then justify by saying that it's fine to hate them because they hate another religion?

[CanadianHippie]

I am sorry Heinz 57, I usually appreciate your comments but this is byond hypocrytical and not at all true.

It is in the quran that women should cover themselves and it is completely illogical to drag pre islam period customs and even a letter from Paul in order not critisise the awful based religious mores.

What for the love of sanity is so wonderful about islam??

Their stance towards homosexuals, jews, women, infidels, black people??

I provided a page with verses from the quran, it is there!

You are generalizing... You could make the same arguments about Christianity just because a someone them have a negative stance towards homosexuals, Jews, women, pagans/heretics/philistines (or what ever the term used is now), black people (for the record, a good percentage of the Muslims in the world are black).

As someone who lives, works, and attends school in an area with a large Muslim population, I can attest to the fact that there are LGBTQ and allied Muslims, there are Muslims who have no problem with Jews, there are feminist Muslims, and Muslims who have no problem with non-Muslims, and, as I mentioned, Muslims who are black and Muslims who help fight all forms of racism. There are even Muslims who are all of the above. There are Muslims who think a woman covering is required, and those who think it's highly recommended, and those who think it is a decision to be made by the woman and Allah.

There are approximate 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, can you honestly say that all 1.6 billion have all the same opinions on everything? If you do think that, then it's time for you to get out and start doing your own research.

[2xx1xy1JD]

For Linnea27's question:

Obviously I can't answer for anyone else, but I do have some opinions on snarking on Muslims vs. snarking on Jews and Christians. For me, it comes down to the fact that I don't know much about Islam. I live in a Christian country (with an official religion), I went to a Catholic school, and I am pretty immersed in a Jewish community now (though I am not Jewish myself). I don't understand as much about Judaism or Christianity as some of the other FJers, but I can scare up a Bible quote and vague recollections about episodes from the Midrash from somewhere in the back of my mind. I can't do this for Islam and so I don't. Obviously, this is my own shortcoming, and I should certainly do something about it, but until I do I'm not so confident snarking on things.

I don't agree that if most Muslims were tested by Christian fundy standards they would be proven fundies. That might just be because the Muslims I know are straightforwardly secular or, otherwise, kept their religious stuff pretty private.

Deleted a weird typo, despite the fact that this has already been quoted in full.

See, that's why I DON'T have a problem in snarking just as much on fundie Muslims.

In my particular corner of the universe, white Christian fundies are rarer than a 4 leaf clover. I've never been to the American South/Bible Belt (southern Florida doesn't count). So, for me, when I snark on Christian fundies, I'm snarking on this sort of exotic, foreign culture that's light years away from my own.

OTOH, whatever part of my area that isn't Jewish, Chinese or Italian is generally Muslim. We live beside the Persian area, hubby works near the Ahmadi area, I work in an area that a mix of Arab and South Asian and Somali, and we used to live in a building that had tons of Saudis. The type of work that I do means slamming up against family/cultural/religious pressures on women all the time. At the same time, it also means that I don't see Muslims as a homogenous group at all, and the influences of politics and culture are more apparent. Most people, for example, would be surprised at just how moderate many of the ex-pat Iranians are - they've been through the Revolution, they saw how it went horribly wrong and they hate the government there.

[latraviata]

You are generalizing... You could make the same arguments about Christianity just because a someone them have a negative stance towards homosexuals, Jews, women, pagans/heretics/philistines (or what ever the term used is now), black people (for the record, a good percentage of the Muslims in the world are black).

As someone who lives, works, and attends school in an area with a large Muslim population, I can attest to the fact that there are LGBTQ and allied Muslims, there are Muslims who have no problem with Jews, there are feminist Muslims, and Muslims who have no problem with non-Muslims, and, as I mentioned, Muslims who are black and Muslims who help fight all forms of racism. There are even Muslims who are all of the above. There are Muslims who think a woman covering is required, and those who think it's highly recommended, and those who think it is a decision to be made by the woman and Allah.

There are approximate 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, can you honestly say that all 1.6 billion have all the same opinions on everything? If you do think that, then it's time for you to get out and start doing your own research.

Oh I am sure there are a few enligtened muslims here and there of course, I mentioned a few in my previous post.

But lo and behold I just watched a Dutch news program (net 3 Half acht live Dutch FJers) and some young muslim men were interviewed about homosexuality, it is disgusting they say it is against our religion.

Sudan, Egypt, Irak, Afghanistan, Irak, Somalia, Jemen, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia, North Africa Malaysia, Indonesia (not as secular as you think many churches are burned by muslims and people are forced to convert, the Indonesian government is powerless and can't do anything about it.)

The Islamisation of Turkey happens rapidly.

Lebanon was predominantly christian, at this moment there is hardly a christian left.

There are a lot of muslims in these countries and I assume that you have no desire to live there.

[latraviata]

See, that's why I DON'T have a problem in snarking just as much on fundie Muslims.

In my particular corner of the universe, white Christian fundies are rarer than a 4 leaf clover. I've never been to the American South/Bible Belt (southern Florida doesn't count). So, for me, when I snark on Christian fundies, I'm snarking on this sort of exotic, foreign culture that's light years away from my own.

OTOH, whatever part of my area that isn't Jewish, Chinese or Italian is generally Muslim. We live beside the Persian area, hubby works near the Ahmadi area, I work in an area that a mix of Arab and South Asian and Somali, and we used to live in a building that had tons of Saudis. The type of work that I do means slamming up against family/cultural/religious pressures on women all the time. At the same time, it also means that I don't see Muslims as a homogenous group at all, and the influences of politics and culture are more apparent. Most people, for example, would be surprised at just how moderate many of the ex-pat Iranians are - they've been through the Revolution, they saw how it went horribly wrong and they hate the government there.

Iranian political refugees are absolutely favourite, no problem here.

They are usually atheist , erudite and very well adjusted.

[CanadianHippie]

Most people, for example, would be surprised at just how moderate many of the ex-pat Iranians are - they've been through the Revolution, they saw how it went horribly wrong and they hate the government there.

That's been my experience too. Though I live in Canada, and it's Muslims from strict theocratic countries in general. Many (if I had to hazard a guess, I would say most) immigrated here because they don't agree with the strict adherence to fundamentalist beliefs that the government of their country of origin has imposed.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I checked out this blog as well and also found her quite hardcore - from what I gathered she's also an American convert, so I find her very much holier-than-you in pointing out how the others do it all wrong.

My guess is that we are less inclined to snark on the covered women for the same reason we feel less inclined to snark on the Orthodox Jewish dresscode, and the Amish etc. - because it's a continuity of what has been practiced for hundreds of years.

From my understanding in the region where Islam was born, the veiling predates Islam (there was a mesopotamian law from 13 c. BC that imposes veiling). It got inscribed in the religious texts and practiced -in different ways and to different extents- ever since. It is also inscribed in Christianity (Paul's letter to Corinthians) and was practiced for centuries, and then progressively discarded (though in Eastern Europe even some 50 years ago women in the country would always put a scarf on before leaving the house. And they probably wouldn't even think it a religious obligation, just that a 'decent woman" has to wear a scarf). So if the Duggars suddenly decided to cover, it would be anachronistic and snark-worthy. If a woman comes from a country/family where women have always covered, it's a bit different.

But as far as the mentioned blog is concerned, yes, I do find her snark-worthy at times.

Edited for typos

Various forms of veiling/head-covering have existed in many religions throughout the ages. It was common even if relatively recent times for women to wear hats or bonnets when going out.

By the same token, though, in many countries we have seen or are seeing a much stricter dress code being imposed, that goes beyond what was similar "traditional".

Prior to the revolution in 1979, many Iranian women wore Western clothes and did not cover their hair.

Prior to the Taliban takeover, many women in Afghanistan (esp. Kabul) did the same.

Traditional Somali garb was simply fabric wrapped around the body, and under the former regime of Siad Barre many urban women adopted Western dress

There are definite fundie trends to impose a particular standard, where that standard hadn't simply been the way things had always been.

The same is true in the Orthodox Jewish community. Yes, there is a tradition of hair covering and of certain modesty standards, but there has also been a definite shift in recent years toward making standards stricter. Women who are younger than me have a hard time believing me when I say that I knew plenty of older women who proudly identified as Orthodox while wearing pants, shorter sleeves and no hair covering.

Look, I respect someone saying "I won't snark because I frankly don't know enough to do so". I just resent any suggestion that there wouldn't be anything snark-worthy, or that women in other communities wouldn't be facing similar issues.

[2xx1xy1JD]

That's been my experience too. Though I live in Canada, and it's Muslims from strict theocratic countries in general. Many (if I had to hazard a guess, I would say most) immigrated here because they don't agree with the strict adherence to fundamentalist beliefs that the government of their country of origin has imposed.

In my experience here, it's a particular feature of the Iranian community.

Iran's revolution was in 1979. The new government was extremely anti-Western, and it was imposing an insane theocracy on the people to the extent that the average person had a reasonable fear of arrest and likely knew someone who had been arrested (if not tortured and/or executed). 30 years later, the regime was so obviously corrupt and miserable that people wanted a change, and the country has such young demographics that most people had no bitter memories of the Shah, which is why they tried to get rid of Ahmadinejad in 2009.

In many of the Arab countries, though, the regimes themselves were not Islamic revolutionaries. In many cases, they were autocrats who were desperately trying to cling to power. Some allied themselves with Islamic authorities in order to gain some legitimacy with the people (eg. Saudi Arabia), while others actively suppressed Muslim organizations that they considered to be a threat to their power (eg. Egypt and Syria).

Somalia is a world of chaos unto itself. The secular leftist regime collapsed, tribal warfare and various warlords tore the country apart, and radical Islamist groups have filled the vacuum.

[freejoytoo]

You cannot say that all Muslims think the same.

I went to school with a high percentage of Muslim girls (single sex school). One girl was very conservative, very strict about wearing the veil and the other girl was very liberal and eventually stopped wearing her headscarf as she interpreted the Qur'an differently.

I think there are lots of things to criticise in Islam as a whole, as with all religions, but you cannot say Muslims think homogeneously.

[CanadianHippie]

Oh I am sure there are a few enligtened muslims here and there of course, I mentioned a few in my previous post.

But lo and behold I just watched a Dutch news program (net 3 Half acht live Dutch FJers) and some young muslim men were interviewed about homosexuality, it is disgusting they say it is against our religion.

Sudan, Egypt, Irak, Afghanistan, Irak, Somalia, Jemen, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia, North Africa Malaysia, Indonesia (not as secular as you think many churches are burned by muslims and people are forced to convert, the Indonesian government is powerless and can't do anything about it.)

The Islamisation of Turkey happens rapidly.

Lebanon was predominantly christian, at this moment there is hardly a christian left.

There are a lot of muslims in these countries and I assume that you have no desire to live there.

You mention Iraq twice and misspelled it both times.

Also, the population in the USA is predominantly Christian and I have no desire to live their either. Jordan has a population that is 92% Muslim, yet they have Christians in government, more than half the female population chooses to not wear any form of head covering and homosexuality has been legal since 1952 (something the US didn't do on a federal level until 2003).

And just because someone lives in a particular country, it doesn't mean they agree with their government. Same-sex marriage is not recognized by the federal government in the US and yet in 2011 53% of the country were in favour of same-sex marriage.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you are just trying to justify a hatred of Muslims by generalizing to the entire group. With that being said, you aren't going to stop generalizing until something happens that forces you to acknowledge that the Muslim population is widely diverse group of people and there are more than "a few enlightened" people in that 1.6 billion.

ETA: Riffle

[CanadianHippie]

I think there are lots of things to criticise in Islam as a whole, as with all religions, but you cannot say Muslims think homogeneously.

Well, maybe if it's Westboro Baptist Church and it's whole 40 members, but lumping all 1.6 billion Muslims in with the fundamentalists is like lumping the 2.2 billion Christians in this world in with Phelps and his posse.

[freejoytoo]

I know...that's what I was saying. It's wrong to lump in all Muslims as a whole.

[latraviata]

You mention Iraq twice and misspelled it most times.

Also, the population in the USA is predominantly Christian and I have no desire to live their either. Jordan has a population that is 92% Muslim, yet they have Christians in government, more than half the female population chooses to not wear any form of head covering and homosexuality has been legal since 1952 (something the US didn't do on a federal level until 2003).

And just because someone lives in a particular country, it doesn't mean they agree with their government. Same-sex marriage is not recognized by the federal government in the US and yet in 2011 53% of the country were in favour of same-sex marriage.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you are just trying to justify a hatred of Muslims by generalizing to the entire group. With that being said, you aren't going to stop generalizing until something happens that forces you to acknowledge that the Muslim population is widely diverse group of people and there are more than "a few enlightened" people in that 1.6 billion.

Very charming, I didn't misspell Irak/Iraq, because Irak is spelled like this in Dutch, English is not my first language and English is not the only language.

And it seems to me that you try to justify the unjustifiable.

Hate? I don't hate anybody, but I resent political correctness just for the sake of it.

I am critical of all religions including islam.

[CanadianHippie]

Very charming, I didn't misspell Irak/Iraq, because Irak is spelled like this in Dutch, English is not my first language and English is not the only language.

And it seems to me that you try to justify the unjustifiable.

Hate? I don't hate anybody, but I resent political correctness just for the sake of it.

I am critical of all religions including islam.

I'm not the one saying "This is what Muslims all think!" I'm not trying to justify anything, you are trying to justify, if not hatred, than an extreme dislike of an entire group for the actions and beliefs of a portion of the group. All because you can't get your head around the fact that not all Muslims think, act, or believe the same things.

[fakepigtails73]

My point exactly.

Not all muslim fundamentalists are terrorists. But fundamentalism is not an exeption at all.

This thread was about the Saudi officials force their athletes to wear hijabs/veils. One of the posters said it must be the stubbornness of the judo federation, of course "l'enfer c'est les autres". No, it is not the judo federation, it is the Saudi government pushing their way no matter what the Olympic rules and regulations are.

As far as the head covering is concerned, here in Europe, the Netherlands/France for that matter the social pressure is enormous to cover the head.

Though, there are some courageous women, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirshi Ali, Fadela Amara (ni putes, ni soumises) who fight the oppressing nature of islam in particular towards women.

I live in one of the major cities here in Holland and when (young) women walk on the streets without a head scarf, young muslim men are hissing 'whore' when passing by.

Every religion that forces their women to rap up themselves because apparantly men can't control themselves is reprehensible.

I really enjoyed Ayan Hirsi Ali's books! Does she still reside in the Netherlands? She's very courageous. Djamilla Benhabib is a women from Algeria who lives here in Québec since the mid-90s and a few yrs back she wrote a book on her ordeals dealing with Islamist fundies in her native country during the 1990s civil war.

I remember watching on tv a Morrocan woman winning a long-distance race at the Olympics (was it the 2000 or 2004 ones?) and then reading that Islamists in her country were upset due to her wearing running shorts and no hijab. Good thing that in Morrocco religious fanatics don't have a lot of power.

[latraviata]

I'm not the one saying "This is what Muslims all think!" I'm not trying to justify anything, you are trying to justify, if not hatred, than an extreme dislike of an entire group for the actions and beliefs of a portion of the group. All because you can't get your head around the fact that not all Muslims think, act, or believe the same things.

Where did I say that? We were discussing headscarfs and islamic woman oppression.

No the arguments, wrong translation, not religion but culture, there are many different muslims it is all nonsense and you know it.

The chairman of the Dutch muslim federation says we are all brothers when he tries to adjust the Dutch law to islamitic standards. Though there are differences between muslims after some violent incidents, then suddenly we are not all the same. Have you heard about Taqiyya?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

I just listed a number of islamic countries (I have to inlude Pakistan an Syria) and there is a lot of violence, headscarfs stoned female adulterers and hanged homosexuals), why do you deny that?

Shall I add after every critical sentence, there are good muslims too?

Don't you think that is a bit over the top, why don't you do the same when you critisise christian and orhodox jews?? Bible or Quran based idiocy it is all the same to me.

Feel free to revise and correct my poor English.

[latraviata]

I really enjoyed Ayan Hirsi Ali's books! Does she still reside in the Netherlands? She's very courageous. Djamilla Benhabib is a women from Algeria who lives here in Québec since the mid-90s and a few yrs back she wrote a book on her ordeals dealing with Islamist fundies in her native country during the 1990s civil war.

I remember watching on tv a Morrocan woman winning a long-distance race at the Olympics (was it the 2000 or 2004 ones?) and then reading that Islamists in her country were upset due to her wearing running shorts and no hijab. Good thing that in Morrocco religious fanatics don't have a lot of power.

Ayaan has been bullied out of the country by our charming islam apologists and currently lives in the USA.

As far as Morocco is concerned, just give it time.

[mpheels]

One of the posters said it must be the stubbornness of the judo federation, of course "l'enfer c'est les autres". No, it is not the judo federation, it is the Saudi government pushing their way no matter what the Olympic rules and regulations are.

I'm the poster that said that, and I've been meaning to clarify, but haven't had time... I think the Saudi Olympic committee, the judo federation, and the athlete's father were all being stubborn. The no hijab rule is not and Olympic rule, and it isn't even an standard judo rule. Judo competitions in Asia do allow hijabs, and many of Olympic sports allow them. Fortunately, as of yesterday morning all parties have agreed to let her participate with a modified hijab. I haven't seen exact details, but I assume the modified hijab will be like those already in use in other sports where a loose scarf is dangerous. Both sides were digging in their heels to prove a point, even though there was an easy, obvious, and already widely accepted compromise available.

I don't like forced modesty/head covering, but have no problem with women choosing modest dress on their own for any reason, religious of not. With that said, it doesn't actually accomplish anything to prevent an athlete from competing for political reasons she has no control over. Allowing her to compete with her head covered will do far more to advance the rights of Muslim women than excluding her.

I still think a lot of the Judo federation opposition to her participation was due to her lack of training/skill, but they can't say that because the IOC overrode their qualification process and invited her directly.

[shesinsane]

[link=http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2012/07/27/157432980/photos-female-arab-athletes-on-the-rise]This article was on NPR today.[/link] Pictures of female Arab/Muslim* athletes. Some of whom are going to the Olympics this year. Thought I'd post because I found the variety of dress interesting, and I'm glad to see small steps for women in that part of the world.

*The article says Arab, but several commenters point out that many of the women do not look Arabic.

They could be from Indonesia (largest Muslim country), Malaysia, or one of the former Soviet Stans, which have many practicing Muslims with Asian features.

From what I can have observed, many Americans think all Muslims are brown and from the Middle East. The average American has no idea about Muslims in Africa or Asia, but that doesn't make them any less real. The fact that a Muslim family from Indonesia could have very different observances than a Muslim family from Saudi Arabia isn't known to the American Christian who would hate to be lumped in with the Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, etc.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'll give an example of why I think it's important to not only acknowledge the different opinions with the Muslim community, but also to define what we mean by extremist or fundamentalist, and to look at how the different voices are treated by both the rest of the Muslim community and by the rest of society in non-Muslim countries.

Here's an editorial from the Toronto Star last winter, bashing Prime Minister Harper and saying "The government has systematically cold-shouldered the 750,000-strong Canadian Muslim community. It does not talk to its main organizations. Instead, it talks to a handful of dissidents." This is described as anti-Muslim bigotry.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... h-religion

Now, let's take a closer look at the story, and at the organizations in question - the Canadian Islamic Congress, and the Muslim Canadian Congress.

The Canadian Islamic Congress is portrayed as the main, mainstream organization, which was getting the cold shoulder. Are they truly "mainstream", though?

Their past president, Mohamed Elmasry, stated on the Michael Coren show in 2004 that he considered all Israelis over the age of 18 to be legitimate targets.

Excerpt from the show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iewZj72EQTE (ignore the other stuff in the video - I'm only linking because it has the footage of the actual incident). The CIC refused to accept his resignation.

Meanwhile, I can only assume that the "handful of dissidents" refers to the Muslim Canadian Congress and Tarek Fatah, since I know that they had met with the government. Tarek Fatah, as I noted earlier in this threat, is the author of "The Jew is Not My Enemy".

Why is The Star promoting the more extreme group?

[mpheels]

Unread post Re: Female Arab/Muslim Athletes on the rise

Glass Cowcatcher wrote:

This article was on NPR today. Pictures of female Arab/Muslim* athletes. Some of whom are going to the Olympics this year. Thought I'd post because I found the variety of dress interesting, and I'm glad to see small steps for women in that part of the world.

*The article says Arab, but several commenters point out that many of the women do not look Arabic.

They could be from Indonesia (largest Muslim country), Malaysia, or one of the former Soviet Stans, which have many practicing Muslims with Asian features.

From what I can have observed, many Americans think all Muslims are brown and from the Middle East. The average American has no idea about Muslims in Africa or Asia, but that doesn't make them any less real. The fact that a Muslim family from Indonesia could have very different observances than a Muslim family from Saudi Arabia isn't known to the American Christian who would hate to be lumped in with the Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, etc.

"Arab" has so many meanings - it can mean geography, language, and/or race/ethnicity. The assumption that Arab = Muslim and that all Muslims are Arabs drives me nuts. At first I was bothered that the article used "Arab" in the title instead of "Muslim," but I ended up looking at all of the countries listed with the photos - they are all geographically and linguistically Arab. I still wish they had chosen a less muddled title, but it does make more sense now.

[latraviata]

I don't like forced modesty/head covering, but have no problem with women choosing modest dress on their own for any reason, religious of not. With that said, it doesn't actually accomplish anything to prevent an athlete from competing for political reasons she has no control over. Allowing her to compete with her head covered will do far more to advance the rights of Muslim women than excluding her.[/quote]

I agree with the first half of your comment.

The second, 'allowing her to compete with her head covered will do far more to advance the rights of Muslim women than excluding her' I don't agree at all, this is enabling women's oppression.