And Joanne falls even deeper down the rabbit hole...

[joannesmith]

This was my first post on this thread. I don't think you have any way of knowing how I would react.

If you were addressing FJ in general, assuming we all have the same attitude towards everyone and everything, you are mistaken.

There was no sarcasm in my post -- I meant it. I'm puzzled.

Your original statement sounds very much like someone who yearns to have someone to whom you must submit. But your more recent post has you asking why a grown woman would need that.

Those two statements are contradictory, to me. That's a big part of what we discuss here -- why do strong, grown women, capable of caring for themselves, want to submit?

If you can explain it, I really do want to read the explanation.

I'm sorry - I was told before that this is a snark board and no one is interested in knowing the truth, they just want to snark. I assumed that meant you too and I see it was wrong of me to assume. Please forgive me if I offended you.

Why do strong, grown women, capable of caring for themselves, want to submit? Because sometimes I need some direction and guidance. While I am free to do whatever I want, I also know that I am not wise in every area yet and never will be. The bible says, "in the multitude of counselors there is safety". I believe this. It's a blessing to have people to turn to when you need some help. Very rarely do I turn to them for spiritual help though [meaning, "what does this bible verse mean?"]; usually it's for situations in my life. For instance, my mother in law is not always the most loving person in the world. Sometimes she says things that are just not true and are rude. There are so many things I could say back to her in defense, but would that be the most loving, wisest thing to do? More often than not I want to act out of haste and defense, but that is usually not the best thing and will come off as unloving and only add to her issues. By stepping back and asking for help, I am able to take a deep breath, collect my thoughts, and respond to her in a way that will not make things worse.

This is just a small example. It's not like I have men here who are lording over me, telling me what to do. Brothers are here to lend an ear and give advice when needed.

I hope that clears it up for you.

[Witsec7]

Brothers are here to lend an ear and give advice when needed.

In the nonfundy real world, independent women have family, extended family and friends that they would seek for advice. This isn't something new.

[joannesmith]

Joanne, these two statements do not match:

There is a huge gulf between appreciating advice that you feel free to accept or toss out, and submitting to correction, rebuke, and instruction. Are you now stating that you just wanted advice and weren't looking to submit to them?

Also, would you mind addressing the fact that you said your son is not an adult, even though according to your posts he is over 18?

Koala, I am doing all I know how to please the Lord. Maybe there are blind spots in my life? If there are, it would be a blessing to me if someone pointed it (them) out. One time there was some friction between me and a sister. One of the brothers here noticed it and said something like, "You know Joanne, I noticed you were acting stand-off-ish towards so-and-so. What's going on?" He saw that something was not quite right and he checked me on it. This lead to a conversation that helped me greatly. It was a gentle rebuke and it helped set me in the right direction to keep loving my sister and keep trying to be a friend to her.

A husband is to be the head of the wife. Whether you agree with it or not, this is what the bible teaches. The bible also teaches that the woman is the 'weaker vessel'. How many times have you acted on emotion and done something stupid? Well, I guess I am only assuming you are a woman. If you are a man, I'm sure there are times you have known women in your life to act on emotion and do something stupid. The husband is there to offer guidance and boundaries. He is there if rebuke or correction is needed. I am a firm believe that all women can benefit from this, but of course most women would hate it.

As for my son. He is not over 18 and I answered another question about my son a few responses ago. I hope that clears it up.

[terranova]

In regards to Joann's desire to be rebuked and corrected by these Godly men of her church... Am I the only one thinking there might be a few shades of grey in there?

Holy shit you're right.

Joanne, you need to read those books!

[joannesmith]

In the nonfundy real world, independent women have family, extended family and friends that they would seek for advice. This isn't something new.

Ok good, so you know what I am talking about then.

[Koala]

As for my son. He is not over 18 and I answered another question about my son a few responses ago. I hope that clears it up.

From your blog:

http://www.fewtherebethatfindit.blogspot.com/2012/02/selective-service-conscientious.html

My son Tylor got a letter in the mail the other day stating that he has not yet registered for Selective Service. I remember they asked him at the driver's license office whenever he got his license (not too long after he turned 18), but we declined to register because I was not sure what to do or even if he had to register. I quickly forgot about it, and then here comes this letter.

Joanne, can you please address which one of these statements is a lie?

[joannesmith]

Although aside from all that, I can't imagine living in a basement with very small - or no - windows is good for mental health. I need sunlight.

Our church basement is quite sunny actually. It has high ceilings and a lot of big windows. The ground it was built on has a solid sheet of rock about 5 feet down, so the basement is only about 5 feet under ground. When we were living in the basement (we have been in a house for about 1 1/2 years now) we had a large, private room with a private bathroom.

[Witsec7]

Ok good, so you know what I am talking about then.

Ok I'm gonna feed your ego and reply Joanne.

In the RW independent women do not necessarily seek out homogenous thought when asking advice. Family, extended family, friends and spouses have diverse thoughts on many issues. When you seek out advice or rebuking from one of the 'brothers' you are asking a person who holds to the same biblical unreality that you cling to. Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining out. Diverse thought is not of value among your fellow cult members.

[joannesmith]

Does your arm ever hurt from spending so much time patting yourself on the back?

It's interesting but not unusual that you are a true to form fundy who never answers direct questions, you just dip into FJ for some attention whoring every now and then.

Koala, the only question you quoted above was: "wonder how he feels about the life his kids are living right now?" and I answered it directly even though it was not asked to me. What could I have done differently to make you not speak badly of me?

[joannesmith]

From your blog:

Joanne, can you please address which one of these statements is a lie?

Neither.

[Lemonbalm]

Neither.

Since I am not taking the LSAT and do not feel like figuring out what that means and how those fit together... How old exactly is your son as of today?

[crazytalk]

oooh, I wanna play. You have two sons? Or, maybe you are speaking of his chronological age in one post and his born-again age in another?

[Guest Anonymous]

Neither.

Even if your son is not yet 19, he's still over 18 if he's turned that already, Joanne. So you're lying and attempting to say it isn't actually a lie? That looks like two lies and counting from here. Maybe one of your brothers should address this spirit of deception that you seem to be dealing with.

[joannesmith]

Since I am not taking the LSAT and do not feel like figuring out what that means and how those fit together... How old exactly is your son as of today?

He is 18.

[joannesmith]

Even if your son is not yet 19, he's still over 18 if he's turned that already, Joanne. So you're lying and attempting to say it isn't actually a lie? That looks like two lies and counting from here. Maybe one of your brothers should address this spirit of deception that you seem to be dealing with.

Over 18 would be 19 or older.

[longskirtlotsakids]

[

"What will it take for you to consider your son to be an adult?" I'm not really sure. My oldest son has a form of high functioning autism and it's a great blessing for him to be working and learning so much. Before moving here, I was not sure what was going to happen to him. Now however he's made great strides towards becoming a functioning adult. He is not able to drive by himself (except on the farm) nor is he able to live by himself. He is very thankful (and so I am) to have a few godly brothers around to help him and challenge him. They have been so patient with him and have taught him a whole lot of valuable work skills.

.

I wonder if there is an SSI check in there somewhere that might me coloring the decision whether or not he is able to live by himself. Not to mention, I wonder how much of an education he was allowed. The saddest thing is kids with Asperger's (the most common form of high functioning autism) are often drawn to math and sciences.

This older son may have been able to find a fulfilling adult life were he allowed to pursue worldly education. The thought of an Aspie being forbidden the world of computers, science, and engineering makes my heart break. I am not saying that's your decision Joanne, but no highly analyitical Aspie is going to have any form of life if he is regulated to driving tractors and checking crops. And no, "creation science" is not science. It's the anitithesis of science.

[Guest Anonymous]

He is 18.

Exactly 18 and not one day over, right? No? Okay. You're a lying liar who lies. Good job there. :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

Over 18 would be 19 or older.

You're very stupid. I weep at the thought of the "education" you gave your poor children.

[Witsec7]

You're very stupid. I weep at the thought of the "education" you gave your poor children.

It's a pity that her high functioning autistic son was denied professional help and raised up among a cult. It's likely he would have progressed much further than she represents with some timely professional assistance.

[joannesmith]

I wonder if there is an SSI check in there somewhere that might me coloring the decision whether or not he is able to live by himself. Not to mention, I wonder how much of an education he was allowed.

SSI ... no way. I am not interested in help from the government.

He's allowed as much education as he wants. Right now his current study of choice is Spanish.

[longskirtlotsakids]

If he is allowed as much education as he wants, why is he kept from the Internet? After all, it was an internet quiz and an internet search that led you to your current way of life.

As far as not getting SSI, bully for you. I am glad you are not exploiting his condition for an income.

[joannesmith]

If he is allowed as much education as he wants, why is he kept from the Internet? After all, it was an internet quiz and an internet search that led you to your current way of life.

As far as not getting SSI, bully for you. I am glad you are not exploiting his condition for an income.

He has no need or desire to use the internet. Someday he might. That's up to him.

[Witsec7]

...

I wonder if there is an SSI check in there somewhere that might me coloring the decision whether or not he is able to live by himself. Not to mention, I wonder how much of an education he was allowed. The saddest thing is kids with Asperger's (the most common form of high functioning autism) are often drawn to math and sciences.

This older son may have been able to find a fulfilling adult life were he allowed to pursue worldly education. The thought of an Aspie being forbidden the world of computers, science, and engineering makes my heart break. I am not saying that's your decision Joanne, but no highly analyitical Aspie is going to have any form of life if he is regulated to driving tractors and checking crops. And no, "creation science" is not science. It's the anitithesis of science.

I know several individuals with asperger's who have advanced degrees, but their parents did not belong to cults and sought early interventions with professionals not cultists.

[Hisey]

I think it is so interesting when Christian bloggers come here and write to us, and I wish everyone would not attack them quite so viciously. I think when they respond graciously to mean comments, they come across as much more sensible and grounded than the person who was mean.

Joanne, I do think that if you take the Bible literally, as you seem to in other situations, you are obligated to submit to your son. Certainly, he would be considered a man in Biblical times. There is no exception for this. With that said. . .

Do you see how following the Bible literally sometimes just doesn't work? While I understand your desire to please God, following the Bible literally would mean submitting to a young man who clearly (by your description) is not ready. Yet that is what Scripture would require.

I would encourage you to find a gentler, more elastic way of looking at Scripture, that would allow you to use your own judgment in situations like this one with your son.

[Witsec7]

I think it is so interesting when Christian bloggers come here and write to us, and I wish everyone would not attack them quite so viciously. I think when they respond graciously to mean comments, they come across as much more sensible and grounded than the person who was mean..

I don't keep pet fundies. I did not come here to listen to fundies justify all manner of child abuse and neglect based on their particular book of myth.

For what it's worth I'm a sensible grounded mature adult in the RW, but as the title and purpose of this board suggests, I'm here for the Snark.

riffle