And Joanne falls even deeper down the rabbit hole...

[linnea27]

It wasn't an all-the-sudden thing. I read what Jesus said about how being married to a divorced woman is adultery in 2005. I took it to my second husband (who is Hindu) right away and asked him what he thought. He said it seems like according to Jesus we are living in adultery. He also said that maybe I am missing something so he encouraged me to keep reading and see what I find. I struggled for about 3 years openly - meaning, the children knew and he knew. During these three years, I was attending mostly different baptist churches and a few home churches. But also we were making changes to conform to what the NT taught (modesty, worldliness, etc.). My second husband was a great help and encouragement through the whole thing. When I decided to step out and obey Christ, he continued being a help and an encouragement and still is to this day. Did my children rebel even a little? No. They love me and also they saw what the bible says about my situation.

Contrary to what everyone likes to say here on freejinger, my son chooses to help support the family. He has free access to the money and gets what he needs whenever he needs it. Our family is a working unit ... meaning, we all pitch in and we all share to make ends meet. We are very close. The boys have jobs they do together and my daughter and I have jobs we do together. We all do the farmers market together.

"What will it take for you to consider your son to be an adult?" I'm not really sure. My oldest son has a form of high functioning autism and it's a great blessing for him to be working and learning so much. Before moving here, I was not sure what was going to happen to him. Now however he's made great strides towards becoming a functioning adult. He is not able to drive by himself (except on the farm) nor is he able to live by himself. He is very thankful (and so I am) to have a few godly brothers around to help him and challenge him. They have been so patient with him and have taught him a whole lot of valuable work skills.

I love my children dearly and they love me. We make a great team. This is hard for many to understand because sadly the accepted norm today is to have selfish, rebellious children. I look back to how I was when I was their age ... selfish and rebellious ... and I am so sad for all I put my dad through. Even though I was very close with my dad, I still was very disrespectful. I am thankful I have lived long enough to tell him I am sorry for being such a jerk of a daughter in the past.

I hope there is nothing in what I have said that causes anyone to "snark" more.

Thank you for responding.

[joannesmith]

I think it is so interesting when Christian bloggers come here and write to us, and I wish everyone would not attack them quite so viciously. I think when they respond graciously to mean comments, they come across as much more sensible and grounded than the person who was mean.

Joanne, I do think that if you take the Bible literally, as you seem to in other situations, you are obligated to submit to your son. Certainly, he would be considered a man in Biblical times. There is no exception for this. With that said. . .

Do you see how following the Bible literally sometimes just doesn't work? While I understand your desire to please God, following the Bible literally would mean submitting to a young man who clearly (by your description) is not ready. Yet that is what Scripture would require.

I would encourage you to find a gentler, more elastic way of looking at Scripture, that would allow you to use your own judgment in situations like this one with your son.

Thank you Hisey for the peaceful comment. In the comment section of my blog (the post in question on this particular thread) I was sincere when I asked the "anon" commenter to please show me where they see I have to submit to my son. This commenter has yet to provide scripture references. I am open to correction in this area if it's backed up with scripture. The headship order is clearly spelled out in the New Testament and "son" is not included in it. Christ says that we must be willing to even forsake our parents &/or children if that is what it takes to follow him. Several times in the NT a woman is told to submit to her husband. No where is it ever said that a woman is to submit to her son.

Do you see something different? Am I missing a scripture in the NT? A commenter on my blog managed to produce one scripture but it was to women or girls of jewish priests.

[holierthanyou]

I just cannot imagine any of the Godly correcting-rebuking-headships are going to approve of you spending an afternoon on FreeJinger.

[keeks21]

Wow. I just read this thread and the blog and my heart is breaking for her kids. The stepdad seemed like a lovely man and the kids were really attached to him.

My mum divorced my physically abusive father and she was condemned by her church for doing it. She's now left the religion and married to a lovely guy over 3yrs ago and just the thought of Mum ever deciding to leave him because the bible says so is terrifying.

Fuck these stupid fucking controlling cults.

[Witsec7]

I just cannot imagine any of the Godly correcting-rebuking-headships are going to approve of you spending an afternoon on FreeJinger.

Maybe she was in the mood for a private rebuking session with one of the brothers?

[joannesmith]

I just cannot imagine any of the Godly correcting-rebuking-headships are going to approve of you spending an afternoon on FreeJinger.

I'm canning meat that we butchered last august and no longer have the freezer space for (freezer broke ... have to do something with it). Have to baby-sit the canners because they are old and finicky. While I have time, I've been learning more about using sourdough and also checking in here.

[Renting with Raggles]

I don't keep pet fundies. I did not come here to listen to fundies justify all manner of child abuse and neglect based on their particular book of myth.

For what it's worth I'm a sensible grounded mature adult in the RW, but as the title and purpose of this board suggests, I'm here for the Snark.

riffle

I'm not going to jump into this discussion, but I have to say how much I support experiencedd's fundy-handling policy. No one is"attacking" anyone, even in the most heated debate. Sticks and stones. If your ideas do not stand up to criticisim, they aren't much good. I tell my debate classes that being Rosamond Vincy doesn't automatically mean you win every conversation, and all the fundies who come here already have that massive sense of entitlement ( they use the prettiest, blondest words and so all opponents owe them a lollipop). There is also the problem of massive cognitive dissonance, which undermines their intellectual honesty and can derail discussion ( women should submit to adult men, but by shifting my definition of adult to "over 18" meaning actually 19 means I don't have to submit to him for a full year more!).

Interesting guys. Keep it up.

[StarrieEyedKat]

I'm not going to jump into this discussion, but I have to say how much I support experiencedd's fundy-handling policy. No one is"attacking" anyone, even in the most heated debate. Sticks and stones. If your ideas do not stand up to criticisim, they aren't much good. I tell my debate classes that being Rosamond Vincy doesn't automatically mean you win every conversation, and all the fundies who come here already have that massive sense of entitlement ( they use the prettiest, blondest words and so all opponents owe them a lollipop). There is also the problem of massive cognitive dissonance, which undermines their intellectual honesty and can derail discussion ( women should submit to adult men, but by shifting my definition of adult to "over 18" meaning actually 19 means I don't have to submit to him for a full year more!).

Interesting guys. Keep it up.

Agreed. I usually just remind myself that no matter how "sweet" one of our visiting fundies may seem, even the nicest ones still think I'm going to rot in hell, and many of them would love to strip my rights away.

[Koala]

Koala, the only question you quoted above was: "wonder how he feels about the life his kids are living right now?" and I answered it directly even though it was not asked to me. What could I have done differently to make you not speak badly of me?

Read closer Joanne. You are quoting someone else :roll:

[Koala]

Neither.

Joanne, on what planet can both of those statements be true?

In your post dated Feb. 10, 2012 you reference something your son did "not too long after he turned 18". That was in Feb. This is July. He is over 18 no matter how you slice it. Now you can play semantics if you want, but your son is a legal adult.

[Koala]

Then he's free to attend high school and college?

[joannesmith]

Read closer Joanne. You are quoting someone else :roll:

Koala, the only question you quoted above was: "wonder how he feels about the life his kids are living right now?" and I answered it directly even though it was not asked to me. What could I have done differently to make you not speak badly of me?

Right. I realize you did not ask the question, but you used that as an example of me dodging questions when I actually answered it directly. It seems I am just confused as to why you quoted the things you quoted.

[kpmom]

Over 18 would be 19 or older.

Are you really taking the "over 18" stuff that literally, or are you saying that because otherwise you were caught in a lie?

[Gizmola]

SEK wrote:

Agreed. I usually just remind myself that no matter how "sweet" one of our visiting fundies may seem, even the nicest ones still think I'm going to rot in hell, and many of them would love to strip my rights away.

QFT

I'm pretty sure most fundies who show up here wouldn't invite my best friend & his husband in to their home for punch and pie and fellowship. If I needed an abortion I doubt any would offer to drive me to the clinic and hold my hand. You know, the kinds of things Christ would've done.

[Koala]

I'm canning meat that we butchered last august and no longer have the freezer space for (freezer broke ... have to do something with it). Have to baby-sit the canners because they are old and finicky. While I have time, I've been learning more about using sourdough and also checking in here.

Joanne, in the past you have listed the following reasons for using the internet:

I use it as a tool to see if I can find someone who loves the truth and also as a tool to keep in touch with brethren.

Do you feel that FJ meets that requirement?

[Koala]

Right. I realize you did not ask the question, but you used that as an example of me dodging questions when I actually answered it directly. It seems I am just confused as to why you quoted the things you quoted.

Please quote me using that as an example of you dodging questions. It didn't happen.

[Koala]

Are you really taking the "over 18" stuff that literally, or are you saying that because otherwise you were caught in a lie?

I think this is a good question for Joanne:

What age constitutes being an adult?

*HINT* In MO it's 18.

[latraviata]

Thank you Hisey for the peaceful comment. In the comment section of my blog (the post in question on this particular thread) I was sincere when I asked the "anon" commenter to please show me where they see I have to submit to my son. This commenter has yet to provide scripture references. I am open to correction in this area if it's backed up with scripture. The headship order is clearly spelled out in the New Testament and "son" is not included in it. Christ says that we must be willing to even forsake our parents &/or children if that is what it takes to follow him. Several times in the NT a woman is told to submit to her husband. No where is it ever said that a woman is to submit to her son.

Do you see something different? Am I missing a scripture in the NT? A commenter on my blog managed to produce one scripture but it was to women or girls of jewish priests.

Why don't you get rid of this 3000 year old fairy tale book and start thinking for yourself.

[Koala]

Contrary to what everyone likes to say here on freejinger, my son chooses to help support the family. He has free access to the money and gets what he needs whenever he needs it. Our family is a working unit ... meaning, we all pitch in and we all share to make ends meet. We are very close. The boys have jobs they do together and my daughter and I have jobs we do together. We all do the farmers market together.

You do realize that it is your job as a mother to support your children, do you not? It is not a group effort. You are the responsible party. You should not be accepting your children's hard earned money. You say he has free access to his money, but you have very clearly stated that you spend what is needed on the family and then give the rest away. Given the fact that you state that (due to his mental capacity) he isn't capable of driving or living alone this is even more suspicious to me.

[joannesmith]

Then he's free to attend high school and college?

If he wants to.

[joannesmith]

Joanne, in the past you have listed the following reasons for using the internet:

Do you feel that FJ meets that requirement?

Yes I do.

[Koala]

How many times have you acted on emotion and done something stupid? Well, I guess I am only assuming you are a woman. If you are a man, I'm sure there are times you have known women in your life to act on emotion and do something stupid. The husband is there to offer guidance and boundaries. He is there if rebuke or correction is needed. I am a firm believe that all women can benefit from this, but of course most women would hate it.

My husband and I are both completely competent. Neither of us are prone to foolish actions based on emotion. Neither of us are here to "rebuke" or "correct" the other.

[joannesmith]

Please quote me using that as an example of you dodging questions. It didn't happen.

I'm sorry Koala - I see where I was confused now. It was "experiencedd" that said that. Sorry for the confusion.

[Witsec7]

If he wants to.

Fuck that shit, the child was raised in a cult. And from todays little act there is no way that you're going to tell him he has the right to an education, intervention for his autism or that he has a minor income available for him to live independently or that he is legally an adult.

This is just another fundy justifying child neglect and abuse based on some bullshit fable.

[Koala]

I'm sorry Koala - I see where I was confused now. It was "experiencedd" that said that. Sorry for the confusion.

It's fine.