Adoptive "Mothers" part deux

[littlemommy]

For about 7 years I was the site supervisor at an assisted living facility, what used to be called a "group home" for adults with disabilities. I had 12 adults to manage paperwork for, and I promise they had more paperwork than this. Part of me wants to clue ol' fencingmama on how to deal with the paperwork and the other part of me wants to shake her and tell her to just get her act together about the papers. I suspect she is seriously, seriously burned out and might be at that stage where eveything is too overwhelming. That activates the sympathetic side of me. Then I remember all those horrible blog posts about her kids and the screeching, unpitying part of me comes out. 

Get some binders, Kimi. God.

[scribble]

On 10/4/2016 at 0:33 PM, keepercjr said:

The posts about mail shocked me.  Does she really need hours every day to go through her mail?  She must not be opening it right away so after a few days it accumulates.  I can't believe she literally has a mail room

It's absolutely insane.  Just spend ten minutes a day opening the mail when it comes and you won't have this problem.... it takes me longer to walk out to the mailbox and back than to open my mail and put the bills etc in the spot where they need to go. Also, it's fairly easy to tell that multiple family members are getting the same letter-- they all have the same return address for goodness sake!

[alexandracabot]

Oh my God. Raising Sunflowers, the woman who a few years ago adopted from China and then gave away 5-year-old Linzi, seems to be saying that she has given up YET ANOTHER child! Her post is somewhat incomprehensible, but it seems like that after a desperate attempt to adopt, she took in another re-homed girl, Emily, and then gave her back when she found out the girl had reactive attachment disorder.

And yet… she reiterates that she is STILL looking to adopt.

This woman is an addict and a monster. Someone needs to stop her from taking in another child.

[dianapavelovna]

Oh boy. Oh boy oh boy. 

What comes to mind is a line from Christie's 8/21/16 post about how Emily was adjusting: "We keep reminding her that she is here FOREVER and she seems to understand that, but still can not stop herself from doing things that she thinks will make us want to send her back." Well, that wasn't true, was it? She was only there for a few months before she was able to manipulate the adults around her into doing what she wanted. But was it truly what she wanted? Things cannot have been going well in that previous home if she was placed with another family. I believe she was trying to exert control over her life the one way she knew how. 

Christie, I don't know if you have or will find your way here. If you read this, though, I implore you: stop trying to adopt again. You have now had two catastrophic failures, and I categorize them as such not to lay blame, but to emphasize the emotional wreckage left in the wake of all dissolved adoptions/disrupted adoptive placements. You have five beautiful daughters who appear happy, healthy, and well adjusted. Focus on them and the joy I know they must bring you.

By your own admission, the recent situation with Emily has caused you and the rest of your family great distress. So stop checking the Second Chance website, stop scouring photolistings, stop searching for the mythical perfect sixth child. Your family has tried twice now to add that sixth daughter (with more attempts that never made it to placement, based on what you wrote in your latest blog entry). Perhaps the fact that neither has worked is a sign that it's just not meant to be. And further, how much do you think all this has cost your family, not only financially, but also spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically? And what of those two hopeful, eager young girls for whom you promised to be a forever family? Despite the outward reactions and behavior of these kids, I do not believe that their disruptions, dissolutions, and shuffling from home to home do not have a profound effect on them.

I have worked with similar children in a professional capacity. I know how frustrating, maddening, and baffling their behavior can be. I have seen families pushed to the edge, tearing their hair out. Don't do this to your family again. Don't do this to another vulnerable young girl in need of stability. Continue to fight for orphans if you feel burdened. Advocate, fundraise, donate, even volunteer to provide time-limited respite for other families. Otherwise, delight in the blessings you already have. Remind yourself that you cannot save every child and that you don't need a sixth child to be happy. Let your family be at peace. 

[MimsyBlk]

Hi guys!  I don't comment often and am more of a long time lurker(?) but these women! It is so frustrating to watch these children lives be effected by narcissistic a-holes that have no idea the damage they are creating.  Any sort of discussion leads to the dread "P" word (prejudice) and the poor child is quickly forgotten.  How can these people claim they are doing this for religion?!  You can NOT rent a child (for j-sus) and the give it up again (for j-sus)!!!! Sorry rant over back to my perch

[Mercer]

We keep reminding her that she is here FOREVER and she seems to understand that,

but still can not stop herself from doing things that she thinks will make us want to send her back.

Virtually any child who is adopted after experiencing attachment breaks is going to exhibit this behavior. As frustrating as it can be for the parent, it's extremely developmentally typical for children with that background. The child has learned to assume they will be abandoned and they fear it, so they try to push for the abandonment on their own terms so they can stop waiting for the other shoe to drop and just get it over with.

Someone who is not prepared to deal with that behavior should not be adopting. Obviously parents unexpectedly get in over their heads sometimes, but judging by Christie's repeated failures she clearly is not capable of this. She needs to accept her limits and be content with the family she has, rather than trying to adopt more children with likely the same outcome.

[alexandracabot]

How much damage must have been done to Emily by taking her away from her family, promising her that her new family would keep her forever, and then having that second forever-family give her back? How will she ever be able to trust anyone again? I don't believe for a second that Christi understands the damage she's done by taking in a child she was unprepared to care for and promising her it was forever, only to give her away. 

[DarkAnts]

Christi is once again blaming the child for the trauma the family has gone through with this failed adoption. It's never her fault for putting the family through it. It's always the child's fault.

[chaotic life]

This is precisely why I call attachment in adoption a dance. You step up to dance with a complete stranger and you have a formulaic map of the steps but you don't know the first thing about each other. As you know and become familiar your dance becomes easier, personalized and beautiful but you have to stumble, trip and get lost first.

I mothered a child who only attached to me in the final four months of his life. I've mothered RAD and PTSD and other issues in between. And I have never abandoned a child. I have also never played a role in triangulating a child from their parents and I find that little story JUST as disturbing as the Emily story. Just stop. These are not CARS. You don't try them on for size, rent one for a while, trade them in, return them or sell them to a new owner. THIS behavior is precisely what causes RAD. Stop hurting kids because of your desire to take more in!

[SoybeanQueen]

I have little patience for people who seek to adopt older kids and seem surprised when reactive attachment disorder creates stress in their home. It should not be a surprise. Sure, actually living with the behaviors day to day is challenging and sometimes shocking, but to be completely taken aback that it happens? Nope. Sorry. If you're totally unprepared for that to happen, you shouldn't be looking to adopt.

Also, why do people act surprised still when the child's country of birth doesn't give complete details about medical and social history? That h as been a common issue for a very long time. Again, if you're not prepared to learn that the child has more significant behavioral or physical problems than what's on the initial papers, don't adopt.

These people are in love with the idea of their perfect Chinese child, not with the actual children.

[Lurky]

3 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

Also, why do people act surprised still when the child's country of birth doesn't give complete details about medical and social history?

I also wonder if this is an issue of language - eg people in the orphanage tried, there were language barriers (I can't get over people who can go to the effort of fundraising for a Chinese adoption, but can't be bothered to try to learn even basic language), or it's in papers in Cantonese or Mandarin etc

[ILoveJellybeans]

I have no idea why people are adopting and then rehoming the child because they do not attach straight away, or have behaviour issues. Do they not realise that children who are available for adoption have all been through loss and trauma-death of their parents, abandonment, removal from their home (even if they were abused there), abuse, neglect and likely have not had a consistent caregiver for their entire time since leaving their birth parents. Its going to take a long time for a child to trust a stranger, even one calling themselves mom or dad. How do they know that their new parents aren't going to leave them again, just like their birth parents, or various foster parents and people who worked in the orphanages? Especially when youre adopting an older child from a different country-they need to adjust to learning the language, new cultural norms, new food, and leave behind everything they have ever known. Traumatized children act out, they should be aware of this before they adopt, and only then, if they are prepared to accept this and get their child the help and support they need, along with non abusive discipline, then they should be allowed to adopt.

[LadyBlue]

On 2016-04-30 at 6:40 PM, eightykatie said:

And what was with nursing Apple?  She admits she wasn't trying to lactate.  And don't forget, this is a 20-month old.  I nursed all of my kids to age 2+ so I'm not against the nursing older kids.  It just seems really really odd to take a toddler who has presumably NEVER been breastfed, and put her to your breast for giggles.  Maybe this is really an accepted thing in the adoption community bonding-wise?

I know this thread is older, but I just started reading this one and the one previous and I got to this point and couldn't go on until I expressed my utter revulsion. I'm an adoptee and admin of an adoptee only forum and every single adoptee there is utterly repulsed by the idea of adoptive parents nursing, even if they adopt infants.  To try to force it on a nearly 2 year old who has probably never nursed is just utterly disturbed to me and it has nothing to do with nursing an older child (all 4 of mine nursed until nearly 3 or longer).I was already deeply disturbed by this woman's behaviour and treatment of these kids, but this is just so very *wrong* on so many levels.

[Lurky]

I've been wondering, since I've never heard of Reactive Attachment Disorder, what it actually looks like in teenagers, and how many of these older adopted children really have it, and how much is them being, well, older children, who are more wary, and not bonding like the parents want? 

I've done a basic google-look at RAD, and on the wikipedia (which, I know, isn't the same as proper medical/psychological specialist source), a lot of the symptoms could easily be, eg, an unsure introverted teenager, with language issues, pushed into a new environment where she doesn't know the rules.  And this is why I hope that they're getting actual diagnoses, rather than "mothers" looking down lists of symptoms and comparing them to what they are expecting.

Because I also wonder, how much of this is unrealistic expectations?  We know a lot of these "mothers" are operating from a very weird place in terms of child collecting etc, so I can imagine they want a teenager to eg be super-grateful, love them like a mother straight away, fit their idea of a "china doll" stereotype, and NOT have any trauma from culture-clash and hell, being adopted as an older child anyway.  Am I being mean?  I would LOVE to hear from anyone with experience of RAD.

And then there's this, so I am side-eying a lot of these "mothers", wondering if they're quick to slap the RAD label on the kids before they abandon them, but as quick to actually try to help them....

From wikipedia:

Quote

According to the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP), children who exhibit signs of reactive attachment disorder need a comprehensive psychiatric assessment and individualized treatment plan.

 

[DaisyD]

I have often thought the same thing. Many of the reactions these kids have sound like teenage reactions to questionable authority figures. Knowing absolutely nothing about RAD, I have no frame of reference though...

[Mercer]

I work with children with RAD, among other mental health and behavioral difficulties. These are some complicated issues. 

RAD is real, and children with this disorder do struggle to form healthy attachments with their parents and other caregivers. If these difficulties are not addressed with individual and family therapy, the children are at risk of carrying unhealthy attachment patterns into adult life.

That said, it's pretty unusual to see a family where the attachment issue is 100% on the child's side and the parents are perfect. That is not to say that situation does not exist, so please do not take this as criticism of any specific family, which the observation may or may not apply to. In general, though, most parents will have to adapt their parenting and meet their child in the middle, adjusting their own expectations to the child's capabilities.

RAD is a ICD/DSM diagnosis and can only be made by a licensed professional. An armchair diagnosis by the parents does not mean the child has RAD. It is also different from the nebulous "attachment disorder" label which is not an ICD/DSM diagnosis and which you hear applied much more loosely.

RAD also is not a diagnosis that means the child will grow up to be serial killer, will be violent, has no empathy, etc. - which you sometimes hear people say. A child with RAD may exhibit these traits just as a child without RAD may do, but they are not included in the diagnostic criteria. A lot of what you read online about RAD seems to describe something more like Conduct Disorder (which is often a precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder diagnosis) rather than the disordered interpersonal patterns that RAD actually represents.

[Lurky]

@Mercer Thanks so much, I really appreciate the reply.  I totally believe RAD is real, I just wonder how much of it is armchair diagnosed. 

I think about how the Barnum/Forer Effect works on people, and how that could translate to diagnoses - eg some my family have a really bad habit of looking down a list of symptoms and worrying others of us have got whatever they're looking at, even if it's just 5 generic symptoms, and not the 4 that are very specific, so I can see how it would be easy to do with one's children.   Seeing the things that make you say YES! and glossing over the stuff that doesn't fit, and making a diagnosis, because it can't possibly be their parenting (or unrealistic expectations).

It's like the autistic spectrum, or people who think their kids are allergic to everything - I completely believe these are real things, but if someone suspects their kid has these issues, but doesn't get a diagnosis and a proper doctor opinion on plan to deal with it, I get furious, and have no forgiveness at all for them.  My mum did this with my brother - decided he must be a bit dyslexic, but never got him tested, so never did anything to mitigate it (if it's true) - but uses it as an excuse, which makes me  completely rage-ful.

[dianapavelovna]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

RAD is a ICD/DSM diagnosis and can only be made by a licensed professional. An armchair diagnosis by the parents does not mean the child has RAD. It is also different from the nebulous "attachment disorder" label which is not an ICD/DSM diagnosis and which you hear applied much more loosely.

RAD also is not a diagnosis that means the child will grow up to be serial killer, will be violent, has no empathy, etc. - which you sometimes hear people say. A child with RAD may exhibit these traits just as a child without RAD may do, but they are not included in the diagnostic criteria. A lot of what you read online about RAD seems to describe something more like Conduct Disorder (which is often a precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder diagnosis) rather than the disordered interpersonal patterns that RAD actually represents.

Just want to boost this - there is so much conflation in the foster/adopt blogosphere of RAD the ICD/DSM diagnosis and "RAD" as described by Nancy Thomas.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

@Mercer Thanks so much, I really appreciate the reply.  I totally believe RAD is real, I just wonder how much of it is armchair diagnosed. 

I wonder that too. On the internet, it's really impossible to tell. The parent very well could have either self-diagnosed or found some "expert" willing to say their child has a disorder without the credentials to back up their authority to diagnose.

[DaisyD]

It sounds an awful lot like what teachers have been doing with my son since he was little. Many have assumed/armchair diagnosed ADHD with him even though I told them that I see none of the non-school related symptoms at home. Just because it's a common diagnosis these days, doesn't mean he's not just a boy who's never had much patience with school. 

[littlehouse]

It is Sissy's birthday is coming up in Nov.  She will be 18.  Anyone care to guess how long it will be before there is a post saying she has been moved from the home?

[littlemommy]

3 hours ago, jiggleromp said:

It is Sissy's birthday is coming up in Nov.  She will be 18.  Anyone care to guess how long it will be before there is a post saying she has been moved from the home?

I hope that is the case, for Sissy's sake. My youngest client (I worked with developmentally disabled adults) was 19. His family wasn't getting an adoption credit for him anymore (or something like that, I can't recall now) and wanted immediate residential placement for him. Whatever their reasons, it was a good move for him, because our agency was well funded. 

[FJismyheadship]

Asking just out of curiousity.... if a child had a parent who had no stability, numerous partners and children of those partners, who the child would be forced to refer to as mom, dad, brother, sister... would that cause issues with the child later when the child goes to live with their other parent who keeps stability and sees the same mom, dad, brother, sister, and house day in and out? Could RAD be an issue, and if so could it show up after a couple of months?

[alexandracabot]

16 hours ago, FJismyheadship said:

Asking just out of curiousity.... if a child had a parent who had no stability, numerous partners and children of those partners, who the child would be forced to refer to as mom, dad, brother, sister... would that cause issues with the child later when the child goes to live with their other parent who keeps stability and sees the same mom, dad, brother, sister, and house day in and out? Could RAD be an issue, and if so could it show up after a couple of months?

This is a question to ask a therapist. My understanding is that RAD is usually caused in infanthood and is about babies not having their physical and emotional needs met, or learning how to form attachments as a baby. The one child I know who's been actually diagnosed by a therapist with RAD was in 14 foster homes before he was three years old.

[Mercer]

On 10/19/2016 at 10:12 PM, FJismyheadship said:

Asking just out of curiousity.... if a child had a parent who had no stability, numerous partners and children of those partners, who the child would be forced to refer to as mom, dad, brother, sister... would that cause issues with the child later when the child goes to live with their other parent who keeps stability and sees the same mom, dad, brother, sister, and house day in and out? Could RAD be an issue, and if so could it show up after a couple of months?

The child would almost certainly have issues with the transition and would probably initially act out in response to the structure. The child would also probably struggle long-term with interpersonal relationships because of the relationship patterns that have been modeled for them.

I wouldn't particularly associate Reactive Attachment Disorder per se with that scenario based on the information given, however. RAD is more about the absence or inconsistency of a primary attachment figure in meeting the child's needs during infancy and toddlerhood. If the child had at least one consistent parent who was meeting their needs, I wouldn't expect to see RAD. Not saying it couldn't happen - it could, depending on the specifics of the situation - just that based on the details given I don't think RAD is the most pressing concern.

This just speculation based on the information presented, not a professional opinion.