Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge

[Howl]

Just came across this piece in the Belief section of AlterNet: 

BELIEF

What Is the Link Between the Oregon 'Militiamen' and Mormonism? LaVoy Finicum’s ultraconservative Mormon beliefs help explain his radical actions.

alternet.org/belief/what-link-between-oregon-militiamen-and-mormonism

Fills in the blanks if you're wondering, like most of us, What the heck was he thinking?  Connects the dots on Joseph Smith, John Birch Society, Glenn Beck, pocket constitutions, Cleon Skousen, secret combinations, Masons, LDS, Satan's Plan, divine inspiration and why a man with everything to live for chose to give his life away at a traffic stop. 

 

[Howl]

Burns Paiutes to Ammon Bundy: You're not the victim

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/burns_paiutes_to_ammon_bundy_y.html#incart_big-photo

[AmazonGrace]

More fresh videos from David Fry:

https://www.youtube.com/user/DefendYourBase

[Howl]

I tried to watch, I did.  Watched a few minutes of Just Chillin', where they give the FBI a nice view of their armaments -- a little dark, but still.  It looked like they might have a rocket launcher or something in there.  I suspect the FBI has a D Day in mind or maybe just sneak up in the dark. 

[freehannie]

David Fry really seems to be melting down and getting angrier and angrier as the list of charges against him grows.  He needs to stop posting videos documenting their fortifications and him driving a federal vehicle.  I don't think he will allow them to take him alive.

[Howl]

Yes, David is continuing to upload videos.  I'm wondering if the FBI gives them periodic internet access because his videos allow them to gather information on their mental state, their supplies and physical setting, and whatever other information they need for their profilers to develop the best strategy to extract them.  Oh, and to know what additional charges to add.

Earlier on, there was some discussion of David Fry's background; can't recall if someone in the media contacted family/friends or what.  Pretty clear that he has explosive anger issues, in that he can't function very well in the real world because he gets pissed off too easily.  He also has made comments on social media supporting ISIS, presumably because they also hate Jews.  This guy is a piece of work.  

 

 

 

 

Ammon Bundy's lawyers released another one of his statements today, although he recorded it on Saturday.

Quote

 

Ammon Bundy, February 6, 2016. This is a call to action for any elected representative in Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, the State of Washington, and Ohio.  You have constituents in federal custody.  Please visit and contact them to voice your support for free speech, the right to assemble, and civil disobedience. 

It is your duty to hold federal agencies at bay, protecting the people in your state.    And to those who disagree with my speech, or our civil disobedience, and may dislike our ideas regarding that the land belongs to the people:  Please remember that you do not want free speech to be retaliated against by government officials.  If you do not advocate for government to tolerate ideas that it hates, then the First Amendment and free speech mean nothing.

Arm yourself with ideas. Arm yourselves with education. Argue and disagree.  Be free.  Thank you.

 

I assume he's asking the lawyers to record as he speaks to them, as he did with his last statement.  As the lawyer played it 

Quote

Audio of Bundy's voice is set against a backdrop of still images, including the definition of civil disobedience and a photo of Bundy's meeting on a rural road with Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward last month.

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/ammon_bundy_issues_new_stateme.html#incart_big-photo

[DaisyD]

These guys don't seem to understand that their protest is not the problem here. They started by trespassing, and went from there. It is essentially theft at this point, since they took possession of something that isn't theirs by force. None of them are being held or charged for anything they said, thus free speech is still intact. I always wonder about people who can't keep straight the difference between actions and words...

[AmazonGrace]

I dunno, I always understood free speech to mean that you're free to say whatever you like, not that you're free to do whatever you like. 

[bashfulpixie]

Freedom of speech is just that: being able to say what you want.  It doesn't mean being free of consequences from saying what you want.  It's something they don't seem to get.

[Howl]

The dictionary.com definition of civil disobedience: 

 the refusal to obey certain laws or governmental demands for the purpose of influencing legislation or government 

policy, characterized by the employment of such nonviolent techniques as boycotting, picketing, and nonpayment of  

taxes

Also found this very interesting pdf called Civil Disobedience and the Law by Carl Cohen, from the 1966 Rutgers Law Review.  http://www.carl-cohen.org/docs/Civil%20Disobedience%20and%20the%20Law.pdf

This is a significant year, not only because it is the year I graduated from high school, but because 1966 is only TWO YEARS after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964.  Many more marches and sit ins were to follow to protest the Viet Nam war;   I marched with 39,000 other people to protest this war around 1969.   

We are a country will a long and not so distant history of civil disobedience and protests changing our country in profound ways. It will be interesting which case law will be cited when both prosecuting and defending those who occupied the MNWL and how 2nd amendment rights figure into the whole thing.  Does display of weapons disallow this as an act of civil disobedience when open carry is legal?  

I think most of the people currently jailed will be escorted to prison at the end of their respective trials; some, like Shawna Cox will probably receive probation. 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Wow.  This guy is over the top.

http://koin.com/2016/02/07/malheur-occupier-says-they-have-booby-traps-near-camp/

 

[Howl]

So the cans and bottles will make noise and alert them to the FBI walking up to arrest them? That's the booby trap? Plus alerting everyone to the fact that THE CANS ARE A TRAP!!!!!!!

FBI, do you have a hot line where I can call in this suggestion?  Call David on his special phone to let him know that you have left a nice big bag of fresh Sensimilla on the seat of the drop car.  With a pipe and rolling papers.  And a lighter.  He just needs to walk up the road and pick it up, but remind him that it's for all of them to enjoy.  See where I'm going with this?

[AmazonGrace]

David thinks that Youtube commenters rule America. 

 

 

 

[DaisyD]

So even if their lawyers successfully argue that this was a sit-in, like the protests of the '60s, they still destroyed government property, broke and entered, and quite a number of other offenses that were not anything like the sit-ins I heard about. It seems like the feds aren't trying to prosecute those that were simply there (sitting-in alone). It looks like they are arresting those that are breaking other laws.

[Howl]

True, and the feds have only charged them with prohibiting Federal employees from doing their jobs, so far.  I'm sure the Feds are also thinking strategically on charges, because they know civil disobedience will be used as a defense. 

 

 

[Howl]

OK, so I think we are on Day 39 or maybe 40 or something.  OPB.org has scooped OregonLive! with news that Cliven Bundy MAY be coming to Burns  to protest the arrest of his sons or maybe not, he has totally not made up his mind.  Bet he's checking to make sure he doesn't end up in jail too.  Anyway, several Western lawmakers are headed to Burns and Portland on Thursday to protest the jailing of these noble men on no grounds whatsoever.   

This news scraped the lid off some crazy in the form of Michelle Fiore, an assembly woman from Nevada, who tweeted early on that LaVoy Finicum was murdered with his hands in the air.   She apparently supported the Cliven Bundy standoff.  Michele's headed to Burns and Portland because there's a Nevada man in jail! + press coverage and photo ops, I'm sure.  Ryan Bundy is the Nevada man; I don't know where that leaves Ammon. 

Really, this woman is an ammosexual's wet dream (she loves guns and she's hawt)  and Sarah Palin's sister wife.  Here's a link to her twitter account: twitter.com/VoteFiore; she's running for higher political office.  Many pictures.  Truly, only in Nevada.  

To give her SOME credit, she did vote to legalize gay marriage and has voted in favor of medical marijuana.  On the other hand, she believes that cancer (I am NOT making this sh*t up) is caused by a FUNGUS.  

Quote

She sponsored Assembly Bill 148 to allow concealed firearms on the campuses of colleges and grade schools and in day care facilities. In an interview with The New York Times, Fiore is quoted saying, "If these young, hot little girls on campus have a firearm, I wonder how many men will want to assault them. The sexual assaults that are occurring would go down once these sexual predators get a bullet in their head.

Oh, and she'd so like to shoot Syrians in the head, but not refugees, but they still can't come to Nevada because there might be some mixed in she'd like to shoot and how can you tell the difference?  

(Thanks, wikipedia).  

[AmazonGrace]

It looks like it might finally be coming to an end.

[violynn]

Big Daddy Bundy arrested.  Finally.  http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/10/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

[DaisyD]

I wonder what Pappas Bundy did this time... 

Quote

"God has put us on this path. Our families are already taken care of; they weren't in our lives much before all this because God made sure we didn't have that to weigh us down so that we could do this," one man said.

Read "Even our families have separated themselves from the crazy."

[SpoonfulOSugar]

They're still talking - the live stream is back up.

It's . . . WOW . . . it's mind boggling.

[47of74]

5 hours ago, violynn said:

Big Daddy Bundy arrested.  Finally.  http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/10/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

Yeah, that made my morning hearing that ol' Cloven Hoof Bundy got his ass arrested.  A whole family of jailbirds.

[church_of_dog]

59 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

They're still talking - the live stream is back up.

It's . . . WOW . . . it's mind boggling.

Is this:  

 

the livestream?  Or is there another one with video too?  (This one is audio only)

[SpoonfulOSugar]

12 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

Is this:  

 

the livestream?  Or is there another one with video too?  (This one is audio only)

That's it!  I was trying to put it in, but spoilered, and I couldn't.

No one has cameras at this point, as far as I know.

Updates on OPB (opb.org), the Oregonian, and Twitter with #OregonStandoff.

This is going to end with a whimper.

And they are *STRANGELY* obsessed with how many people are listening.

[church_of_dog]

It sounds like maybe they are surrendering right now?  I think that's what I'm hearing...

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Oh, fuck, he's saying he's not going out.