"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[2xx1xy1JD]

Knowing basic English is important in customer service.

That's very different, though, than not having an accent. In the OP, it sounds like the gentleman could speak English, but happened to repeat a question and the customers made an assumption based on his background. If the man was Indian, it's quite possible that he had learned English in India, and the accent would have nothing to do with language ability.

[Third]

Another thing Americans might not realize - all these sayings. Coming to American and a lady told me her husband was "lit up like a Christmas tree" and I seriously pictured him with a string of lights wrapped around him. I had to ask her to explain herself and I have always spoken English. Imagine trying to understand all these sayings and all this slang when you are also learning the language.

[Witsec1]

YpiAhxaE_oI

[Bella99]

The owner should have been made aware of the shoplifting. But I'm the type of bitch who would have tried to take a picture of them or their license plate with my phone in case he wanted to call the police. She is a thief, the rudeness is just the cherry on top of their assholeyness.

[holierthanyou]

Ok, the customer who had the hissy fit was wrong in acting the way he did. I agree it's a good idea to learn a 2nd (I'm considering taking Spanish & French classes or purchase language learning software). Having said that, why should I have to learn another language or repeat myself several times just to place an order at a restaurant or get customer service/technical support over the phone in my own country? I used to work in a call center, and one of the very first things a customer would ask me "do you speak English" or they would say "thank goodness somebody I can understand." Having an accent is not the problem, but when It's so "thick" that you can't understand anything being said, that's the problem. The fact they can speak a hundred different languages or that I can't speak other languages is beside the point. The fact of the matter is they are here in the U.S. where the primary language is English. So, no, I shouldn't have to learn another language to conduct everyday business or transactions in my own country.

I have no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants (regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin). Just to be clear, I'm referring to immigrants who work with the public, not immigrants in general, and I do agree that many immigrants do speak English in an understandable way. And, I'll repeat one more time the customer who pitched the hissy fit was wrong.

I'm calling this one as I see it: thinly veiled racism. First, for all you know the person whose accent you judge too 'different' from yours, maybe very well be fourth generation American. So don't pull the whole "my own country" bullshit card. It's their "own country" too, and I feel sorry for them they have to put up with bigots like you on a daily basis. Unless you are 100% status Indian/First Nations, then you are an x-generation American too- you aren't any more or less American than people with darker skin tones and/or different accents than your own.

[Three and Done]

I imagine this couple would have thought my fiance a "damn immigrant" too, as he is Latino and speaks with a pronounced accent. However, he is also an American citizen (and has been since birth, since he was born in Puerto Rico).

Judgemental azzholes.

[Conuly]

Knowing basic English is important in customer service.

Presuming most of your clients speak English to you. If you serve a largely immigrant community, it's probably more important to speak their language. (Well, duh.)

People don't know this, but until relatively recently in the US most immigrants stayed in their own language communities and never left. They worked and shopped and prayed with other immigrants from their own area. At the turn of the last century there were public schools, in America, that were conducted entirely in German because they were situated in German neighborhoods!

It's actually amazing how many nations in the world are officially bilingual, or have multiple small languages. People say things like "Oh, if I moved to Italy I'd speak Italian", and first that's possibly untrue (many expats stay in expat communities and get by in English for all things) and secondly - what if you moved to a part of Italy that's German-speaking, or where they speak Sardinian or Catalan? Italian is useful, and I'm sure they all know it (though it's not the official language), but how are you going to buy groceries? (Better stick with English.)

Most of the world's speakers speak at least two languages. Monolinguals are really a small minority.

Having said that, why should I have to learn another language or repeat myself several times just to place an order at a restaurant or get customer service/technical support over the phone in my own country?

Well, you don't. If this is upsetting to you, vote with your dollars and shop somewhere else. Register a complaint with the people in charge and don't patronize businesses where you have clear communication difficulties.

However, lots and lots of people have to "learn another language" in their own country. Look at deaf people! In order to communicate with everybody else, they have to learn the local spoken language, even if their primary language is signed. It'd make as much sense to teach everybody to sign in school, but we don't do that.

Lots of people have to repeat themselves several times to be understood, people with speech problems or speaking with people who have trouble hearing. It's an inconvenience, but usually it's not a big concern.

Learning another language is DIFFICULT, especially as an adult. Learning to speak it as a native speaker gets harder and harder as you get older and older. As you only speak ONE language, learn a second language and try getting a job where you only speak that language first before you complain.

[debrand]

No. Read the thread again.

Trying your best to get along in English, especially keeping your cool when insulted = good

Racist intolerance shown to non-white immigrant, especially when you aren't any better yourself AND you get hostile and break the law = bad

I'm from the south and have a regional accent. People who speak a language from birth should use decent grammar in that language. I'll be the first to admit, that I don't always do so. However, I am aware that is my own fault and I can't fault someone for holding me to a higher standard to someone who hasn't spoken the language from birth.

I've heard immigrants mocked only for having an accent, not just for being difficult to understand.

[slickcat79]

Having said that, why should I have to learn another language or repeat myself several times just to place an order at a restaurant or get customer service/technical support over the phone in my own country? I used to work in a call center, and one of the very first things a customer would ask me "do you speak English" or they would say "thank goodness somebody I can understand." Having an accent is not the problem, but when It's so "thick" that you can't understand anything being said, that's the problem. The fact they can speak a hundred different languages or that I can't speak other languages is beside the point. The fact of the matter is they are here in the U.S. where the primary language is English. So, no, I shouldn't have to learn another language to conduct everyday business or transactions in my own country.

Point taken, but those problems are hardly limited to immigrants. I live in the south, and I have a boss who's never set foot outside of the US but he still gets asked to repeat himself often because his accent is too thick to understand. You could potentially say the same for a deaf person, a stroke victim or a person with a brain injury, a person with a speech disorder, etc. You're going to have to interact with people that are hard to understand in a regular basis, and what they sound like to you is no excuse for rudeness, theft, and snide/racist comments. It's not like this guy is actually in a call center/help center/customer service position, he's just a restaurant clerk.

[ohpotteryourotter]

Ok, the customer who had the hissy fit was wrong in acting the way he did. I agree it's a good idea to learn a 2nd (I'm considering taking Spanish & French classes or purchase language learning software). Having said that, why should I have to learn another language or repeat myself several times just to place an order at a restaurant or get customer service/technical support over the phone in my own country? I used to work in a call center, and one of the very first things a customer would ask me "do you speak English" or they would say "thank goodness somebody I can understand." Having an accent is not the problem, but when It's so "thick" that you can't understand anything being said, that's the problem. The fact they can speak a hundred different languages or that I can't speak other languages is beside the point. The fact of the matter is they are here in the U.S. where the primary language is English. So, no, I shouldn't have to learn another language to conduct everyday business or transactions in my own country.

I have no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants (regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin). Just to be clear, I'm referring to immigrants who work with the public, not immigrants in general, and I do agree that many immigrants do speak English in an understandable way. And, I'll repeat one more time the customer who pitched the hissy fit was wrong.

I understand it can be annoying to keep asking "what?" if you can't understand them. However, it's not as easy as you think. It is just plain biology that by the age of 16, your accent is your accent pretty much for life. Your mouth has already formed around the sounds you make on a daily basis in your native language. Learning a foreign language after the age of 16, you will NEVER develop a foreign accent to native level. You want to learn Spanish and French? That's great...but no matter how long and hard you study, no matter how fluent you get and how great your accent can be, it will never be perfect. Hence, you go to Spain or France, there will always be people asking YOU "what?" because your accent will be in the way.

Just like non-native English speakers will never be able to develop an amazing accent speaking English. It physically cannot be done. Maybe once you start learning a new language, you'll realize that more and more.

Don't like it? Well, every country on earth have non-native speakers of whatever language living in their country. It's just something you have to deal with.

[debrand]

Another thing Americans might not realize - all these sayings. Coming to American and a lady told me her husband was "lit up like a Christmas tree" and I seriously pictured him with a string of lights wrapped around him. I had to ask her to explain herself and I have always spoken English. Imagine trying to understand all these sayings and all this slang when you are also learning the language.

In some parts of the south the word, ill means angry as well as sick. I have a friend from the northeast who was dating a southern man. One day he told her that he was so ill he could barely speak. Alarmed, she started to tell him that he needed to go to the hospital. Luckily, he was so angry that he went into a rant to explain why he was upset. She realized that he was using the word, ill in a way that was unfamilar to her.

Try as I might, I can't make the words, pen and pin sound differently.

Regional differences must be very hard for immigrants.

[Nothing2CHere]

I'm calling this one as I see it: thinly veiled racism. First, for all you know the person whose accent you judge too 'different' from yours, maybe very well be fourth generation American. So don't pull the whole "my own country" bullshit card. It's their "own country" too, and I feel sorry for them they have to put up with bigots like you on a daily basis. Unless you are 100% status Indian/First Nations, then you are an x-generation American too- you aren't any more or less American than people with darker skin tones and/or different accents than your own.

:clap:

My grandfather spoke with a distinct Eastern European accent his entire life, because he was raised in Europe. But guess what, he WAS an American citizen, had a Pennsylvania birth certificate. His family moved back to Europe when he was about five years old, and then when he became an adult he decided to move back to the US. So yeah, despite his accent, the US was also his "own country."

[Conuly]

I'm from the south and have a regional accent. People who speak a language from birth should use decent grammar in that language. I'll be the first to admit, that I don't always do so. However, I am aware that is my own fault and I can't fault someone for holding me to a higher standard to someone who hasn't spoken the language from birth.

Yes, actually, you do.

Or rather, you speak the correct grammar (learning grammar is something all typically developing children do naturally and normally, with no explicit help needed) for your own dialect. This varies in some ways from the grammar of the prestigious dialect, Standard American English. (That's the prestigious dialect in America. In other English-speaking areas it's different, obviously.)

We don't call that dialect correct because it's better in any objective way than the others, or it's been around longer or anything like that. We call it "correct" because it's the dialect spoken by people with money and power, and they have the ability to carry through on their judgments of other people. We also call it "correct" because schoolteachers enforce this, but honestly, a lot of stuff they tell you in school about how the English language works is dead wrong.

[fundifugee]

Ironically, if the Subway employee was Indian he probably spoke English as well or better than those criticizing him, as most Indians who end up abroad have rigorous formal education in English.

My grandmother was a fourth-generation Canadian who spoke English with a German accent, and I've met many Chicanos who have lived in the enormous part of the US that was formerly Mexico for generations, and speak Spanish as a first accent. If the US had followed the pattern that Canada did, then English and Spanish would be the official languages (as English and French are in Canada).

Ignorance on so many fronts. Jerks.

[Three and Done]

I understand it can be annoying to keep asking "what?" if you can't understand them. However, it's not as easy as you think. It is just plain biology that by the age of 16, your accent is your accent pretty much for life. Your mouth has already formed around the sounds you make on a daily basis in your native language. Learning a foreign language after the age of 16, you will NEVER develop a foreign accent to native level. You want to learn Spanish and French? That's great...but no matter how long and hard you study, no matter how fluent you get and how great your accent can be, it will never be perfect. Hence, you go to Spain or France, there will always be people asking YOU "what?" because your accent will be in the way.

Just like non-native English speakers will never be able to develop an amazing accent speaking English. It physically cannot be done. Maybe once you start learning a new language, you'll realize that more and more.

Don't like it? Well, every country on earth have non-native speakers of whatever language living in their country. It's just something you have to deal with.

At times, Fiance's accent makes it very difficult to understand him, and I have to ask him to repeat himself. I often wish I spoke Spanish, it might make things easier!

On the other side of it, my DD16 is learning Spanish, and even I can tell her accent is terrible.

[holierthanyou]

Ironically, if the Subway employee was Indian he probably spoke English as well or better than those criticizing him, as most Indians who end up abroad have rigorous formal education in English.

My grandmother was a fourth-generation Canadian who spoke English with a German accent, and I've met many Chicanos who have lived in the enormous part of the US that was formerly Mexico for generations, and speak Spanish as a first accent. If the US had followed the pattern that Canada did, then English and Spanish would be the official languages (as English and French are in Canada).

Ignorance on so many fronts. Jerks.

This.

It reminds me of when my grandmother complained about the Jamaican nurse who was attending her, because she "couldn't even speak English" and my grandmother claimed not to be able to understand her. Obviously, my grandmother was ignorant to the fact that, like herself, the nurses first (and only) language was English. :roll:

There's a decent chance the same applies to some of the other people that geniebelle (and the couple in Subway) take issue with. For all you know, they are just like you and the only language they can speak is English. If I moved to India (or Jamaica, or any one of a number of other places) and spoke English with my normal accent, I am sure people would have a difficult time understanding me. Hopefully they would be more polite and respectful though, and not question my right to live and work there because of my accent.

Also, why did the one poster specify that she had no problem with legal immigrants??? Do people believe that undocumented workers in their countries have even less similar accent to their own? Do legal documents make you adopt the regional accent? WTF?

[ThreeCatsAndCounting]

Grammar, syntax, accent, and usage is also a class-type thing in the US, although some people don't like to admit it. Kids whose families live in better school districts or who are sent to good private schools; or whose families value education and encourage their kids to do well, whose parents expose them to books and read to and with them from an early age no matter what the economic status is-- these children are far more likely to do well than those whose families from poorer districts or with parents who don't place a value on early childhood education (and not those "educational" videogames-- read your kid a BOOK, damn it!)

[Witsec7]

I grew up hearing a multitude of accents in my hometown. I'm not put off by accents, but today its acceptable for accents to be politicized and an 'acceptable' indicator of citizenship. Xenophobia is becoming the status quo here in the US.

[Conuly]

Grammar, syntax, accent, and usage is also a class-type thing in the US, although some people don't like to admit it. Kids whose families live in better school districts or who are sent to good private schools; or whose families value education and encourage their kids to do well, whose parents expose them to books and read to and with them from an early age no matter what the economic status is-- these children are far more likely to do well than those whose families from poorer districts or with parents who don't place a value on early childhood education (and not those "educational" videogames-- read your kid a BOOK, damn it!)

And they're more likely to speak the prestigious (standard) dialect, however, there's nothing inherently valuable or better about that dialect.

You're conflating two things: How people speak, and how much they value education and read.

But you can be very well-educated and not speak the standard dialect, or not speak it exclusively. There is such a thing as being bidialectical.

[holierthanyou]

I grew up hearing a multitude of accents in my hometown. I'm not put off by accents, but today its acceptable for accents to be politicized and an 'acceptable' indicator of citizenship. Xenophobia is becoming the status quo here in the US.

This.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think it's helpful to teach kids who speak "non business standard" dialects at home that what they speak IS a dialect, with rules and a full functioning grammar, that outsiders in fact would have to explicitly learn - meaning, it's very much NOT just "broken English" with each kid and family doing their own thing. It has RULES, like any other language or dialect. It's their community in-group language.

As such, you can then explain that while that dialect is for use at home and on the playground, when writing reports you need to use the Official Business Dialect, and then show the kids how to convert from one to the other. Help them understand that yes they are in fact bidialectical (or will be once they master Official Business Dialect in school), and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm bilingual, and it might horrify people to know that when I am teaching English to some of my friends, I go out of my way to TEACH them the various "non-standard" "bad grammar" that is used in my region of the US. "Ain't" and "it needs washed" and all the rest of it. I will explain that it's regional and not for use in business or school writing. But you know what? KNOWING those dialect items and being able to use them naturally actually helps them fit in MORE, so when talking informally they don't sound like someone who has just stepped off the boat and learned English only from books. Even with a terrible accent they sound more natural or at least as if they've lived here a while, and so... people are more comfortable speaking to them in English, assuming they know more. I do the same in reverse, also.

Of course if they're in some situation where people will be looking to pick apart their English looking for faults, they should stick to Official Business Dialect, even if the person grilling them doesn't...

[Guest Anonymous]

First of all comparing a Southern accent to a foreign accent is like comparing apples to oranges. Second, no, it's not racist to expect to be able to conduct business transactions in English and be able to understand what is being said without having to repeat yourself. Furthermore it doesn't matter if they are first or tenth generation American. English is the primary language in the U.S., and they need to learn effectively communicate in English. The same would be true of me if I moved to a country where English isn't the primary language. I should be expected to learn to effectively communicate in that language. And as to the racist part...I believe I said regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. Apparently you missed that part.

[holierthanyou]

First of all comparing a Southern accent to a foreign accent is like comparing apples to oranges. Second, no, it's not racist to expect to be able to conduct business transactions in English and be able to understand what is being said without having to repeat yourself. Furthermore it doesn't matter if they are first or tenth generation American. English is the primary language in the U.S., and they need to learn effectively communicate in English. The same would be true of me if I moved to a country where English isn't the primary language. I should be expected to learn to effectively communicate in that language. And as to the racist part...I believe I said regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. Apparently you missed that part.

I take back what I said about your earlier comments being thinly veiled racism. I now consider your comments to be overt and intentional racism. Ignorance is not an excuse.

[xReems]

What pissed me off is that they were quick to assume that because he kept repeating things, it was because he needed to learn proper english. I've been to that shop plenty of times and this was the first time the guy had to repeat things. He was the only one working that day so he could have been exhausted or there was something going on with his family or friends that kept him distracted. It just irks me that people have a huge tendency of assuming and judging things without thinking about other possibilities.

If they had issues with this guy in Subway, I'm sure they would be pissed to go to almost every fast food joint, grocery stores, pharmacies, doctor offices, etc because almost everywhere you go, you're bound to find some immigrant with an accent. Get over it if you have issues with it. At least they're making an effort to speak English! I'm sure if those people went overseas, they would not put in a single effort to speak that country's language and throw a bitch fit over the lack of "english words."

[Guest Anonymous]

I take back what I said about your earlier comments being thinly veiled racism. I now consider your comments to be overt and intentional racism. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Just now is this racist or ignorance?