Harry & Meghan 14: The Reverse Harry - Restoring the Angevin Empire

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

13 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

So his complaints about being the "spare," make no sense. A monarchy requires some sort of succession rules. Really he's just mad that he didn't have the luck to be born first. 

I don't think he's complaining about being the spare. He's complaining about how he was raised and the treatment he received because he was perceived as a spare human.  Personally, I think William drew the short straw here, but maybe that's just me. Harry has the freedom to do and write and say whatever he pleases.  William has no such freedom.

17 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

  I still don't understand what he wants. Other than attention. 

Money would be my guess. 

[BookwormExtraordinaire]

I think growing up as the spare to the throne is enough to mess up anyone's childhood because it inevitably creates some really strange sibling dynamics no matter how it is handled by the parents. Some people may be better-suited to it than others, but I doubt it's a particularly healthy way to grow up for anyone. Not that I think growing up as the heir is any better, but at least the heir is on a set path from birth. The spare has to just hang around until the heir has children and then go off and do something else with their life, becoming less and less relevant with each niece and nephew that is born while the heir just becomes increasingly more important with time. 

[treehugger]

Ive read in several places that the book is well written, so I’d like to read it for that reason alone. I understand that Harry is free to share his perception of his life story, so that will also be interesting. From what I’ve read so far in reviews, I don’t think his book will change my opinion of him, but I want to give him a fair shot. However, I do think he may regret this in time. 

I did find this to be an interesting article. Patty Davis, Ronald Reagan’s daughter wrote a book about her life that she ended regretting. This is what some of what she had to say about it: 

“I’ve learnt something about truth: it’s way more complicated than it seems when we’re young. There isn’t just one truth, our truth – the other people who inhabit our story have their truths as well.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/01/12/regret-writing-book-father-ronald-reagan-just-harry-will-regret/

Edited January 12, 2023 by treehugger

[Alisamer]

He really does seem like his maturing stopped when Diana died, and he was already on the rocks before that. Which sure, that happens with severe trauma. And I've always from the time he was born thought it was shitty that he was considered "the spare". He's got a weird super-wealthy upbringing with high expectations but no real end result in mind that's also bound by lots of rules and traditions and It's understandable that he's kind of messed up mentally. And then he's got combat experience which can mess anybody up. He needs some help for sure. 

It's the putting it all out for public consumption that's confusing to me. Like, sure, everyone should feel free to tell their story (though Charles, Camilla, William, Kate, etc. definitely aren't free to be writing tell-alls) but he seems also very much to want to be part of things as far as benefiting from being a royal. While also having the freedom that royals never have. He's conflicted himself, I think, which is why it comes off as confusing. He wants to be close with his family, he wants the royal trappings, he wants the benefits and wealth but he doesn't want the press attention (except when he courts it) or the responsibilities that come with that. He basically wants to have his cake and eat it and all of that on his own terms. 

All understandable, but not really possible or reasonable. I hope he has a really good therapist, because he needs one. But I think he also needs somebody in his life who isn't a hanger-on or an enabler who can help him see the difference between things he needs to work through himself, things he needs to work through with his family, things he needs to accept and move past, and things he needs to share with the world. Because he clearly can't tell the difference. 

[hoipolloi]

59 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I'd recommend no one assume they're getting "objective facts" from a memoir.

Thatʻs why thereʻs a difference between memoir and a biography. For that matter, I think that all autobiographies should also be renamed memoirs simply because thereʻs no way to write about oneʻs own life in an unbiased manner. Certainly, there are biographies which are nothing more than hagiographies or, conversely, hatchet jobs, but an unconnected biographer has a better chance of producing more accurate work assuming they have access to materials like diaries & letters. Still, you have to be aware of the context: when you read "approved" or "official" on the cover of a biography, you may not be getting the full story just as an "unofficial" biography may be omitting information.

That all said, I read all types of personal histories -- memoirs, autobiographies, and biographies -- with pleasure & interest. To me, the best form is a collection of a personʻs diaries or journals, such as the complete journals of L.M. Montgomery, author of Anne of Green Gables. The journals provide a fascinating & very alternative view of the author and are also social histories.

I've started reading Spare and, sad to say, it is not very good. 

 

[noseybutt]

19 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Thatʻs why thereʻs a difference between memoir and a biography. For that matter, I think that all autobiographies should also be renamed memoirs simply because thereʻs no way to write about oneʻs own life in an unbiased manner. Certainly, there are biographies which are nothing more than hagiographies or, conversely, hatchet jobs, but an unconnected biographer has a better chance of producing more accurate work assuming they have access to materials like diaries & letters. Still, you have to be aware of the context: when you read "approved" or "official" on the cover of a biography, you may not be getting the full story just as an "unofficial" biography may be omitting information.

That all said, I read all types of personal histories -- memoirs, autobiographies, and biographies -- with pleasure & interest. To me, the best form is a collection of a personʻs diaries or journals, such as the complete journals of L.M. Montgomery, author of Anne of Green Gables. The journals provide a fascinating & very alternative view of the author and are also social histories.

I've started reading Spare and, sad to say, it is not very good. 

 

You may be right there is no way to distinguish between memoir and autobiography. Even with fact checking, there could still be significant differences.

 I would be curious as to the agreement the ghost writer had with Harry. Was it to tell his story regardless of other evidence? To tell it without looking at other sources?

Did they even have these kinds of conversations?

[Loveday]

12 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

My library has about 250 waitlist for both hardcopy and audiobook.

Says 20 copies of hardcover. We'll see how it goes.

Which means that 230 copies of the book won't be purchased. Yay! LOL. I think my library system (with about a dozen branches) will end up with 15 to 20 copies as well, although they tend to order fewer if they figure a book will only be really popular for a few weeks or months. Regardless, the more people who read a library copy, the fewer copies sold at bookstores and online. I honestly see this book ending up on the bargain tables at Barnes and Noble, not to mention on the shelves of Goodwill, right next to Sarah Palin's 'Going Rogue.' 😏

 

Oh, look, my rank title has gone to 'Enjoying post-vomit cleanup day!' I'm not quite sure how, but I'm thinking it sort of fits in with the discussion of Harry's book!😆

Edited January 12, 2023 by Loveday

[viii]

1 hour ago, noseybutt said:

 I would be curious as to the agreement the ghost writer had with Harry. Was it to tell his story regardless of other evidence? To tell it without looking at other sources?

Did they even have these kinds of conversations?

There's been such an overwhelming wave of Harry information lately these past few days that I might be wrong, but I swear I read something where the ghostwriter came out and spoke out against the book and hates that he's attached to it. 

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, Loveday said:

Which means that 230 copies of the book won't be purchased. Yay! LOL. I think my library system (with about a dozen branches) will end up with 15 to 20 copies as well, although they tend to order fewer if they figure a book will only be really popular for a few weeks or months. Regardless, the more people who read a library copy, the fewer copies sold at bookstores and online. I honestly see this book ending up on the bargain tables at Barnes and Noble, not to mention on the shelves of Goodwill, right next to Sarah Palin's 'Going Rogue.' 😏

 

Sounds like a failure would make you happy. 

However, the book is breaking all kind of sale records. Sort of the opposite of your predictions. It's exceeding publisher's expectations.

BTW, not everyone waits for their library copy. Some of those 230 will probably get tired of waiting and buy their won.

Even if NOBODY bought a copy, Harry will still keep his multi-million dollars advance. So there's no way he can lose.

 

So odd that Harry is seen as the one who is messed up.

But William, who attacked him physically and shoved a finger in his wife's face--that's healthy?

 

9 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I don't think he's complaining about being the spare. He's complaining about how he was raised and the treatment he received because he was perceived as a spare human.  Personally, I think William drew the short straw here, but maybe that's just me. Harry has the freedom to do and write and say whatever he pleases.  William has no such freedom.

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Absolutely William drew the short straw. HIs life is so contained and controlled, and he'll be the victim of the press for the rest of his life. Harry is the one who has achieved some level of freedom from that gilded cage.

I think Harry thanks his lucky stars he wasn't the oldest.

 

6 hours ago, Antimony said:

This is sometimes called a Hemingway style. It's a pretty good choice for something that is meant to consumed by a broad audience. It has a few hallmarks, but the biggest are short sentences and a lack of adverbs (which Stephen King also hates). Hemingway scores as really readable on the Flesch–Kincaid scale, and I imagine Spare does too. 

I would bet that this was a very deliberate choice and they may even have picked a ghostwriter because of his ability to do this. It's really, really, really awfully hard to pull off.  You can use the HemingwayEditor to edit your own writing to be more readable though. Almost a must-have if you want to write for people to read without trouble. (Microsoft Word does now have a variation of this under Editor.)

I've never found it hard to pull off. Just write as you ordinarily would. Then break up the longer sentences into 2 or 3 smaller ones. Break large blocks of texts into smaller, shorter paragraphs.

Most popular blogs are written this way. The theory is that  nobody wants to read a long blog of text.

But hard? Not at all. It just requires editing your own work, or having someone else do it.

[just_ordinary]

While it has a nice flow please be aware that it’s an easy read because this book is written in extremely short sentences.

This might give you a good idea of the kind of text:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/12/i-was-alone-abandoned-with-only-a-hundred-million-in-the-bank-spare-digested-by-john-crace
 

I surely wouldn’t pay money for it, but hey we are all free to spend as we see fit.

 

 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I don't think he's complaining about being the spare. He's complaining about how he was raised and the treatment he received because he was perceived as a spare human.  Personally, I think William drew the short straw here, but maybe that's just me. Harry has the freedom to do and write and say whatever he pleases.  William has no such freedom.

Money would be my guess. 

But a hereditary monarchy will always have "spares," and there will inevitably be different treatment because one child needs to be prepared to be the monarch. Unless he is advocating for everyone to have only one child, he still seems to be contradicting himself. 

[Loveday]

10 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

While it has a nice flow please be aware that it’s an easy read because this book is written in extremely short sentences.

This might give you a good idea of the kind of text:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/12/i-was-alone-abandoned-with-only-a-hundred-million-in-the-bank-spare-digested-by-john-crace
 

I surely wouldn’t pay money for it, but hey we are all free to spend as we see fit.

 

 

That was perfect. Now I don't even have to check the book out at the library! 

[Antimony]

24 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

While it has a nice flow please be aware that it’s an easy read because this book is written in extremely short sentences.

This is sometimes called a Hemingway style. It's a pretty good choice for something that is meant to consumed by a broad audience. It has a few hallmarks, but the biggest are short sentences and a lack of adverbs (which Stephen King also hates). Hemingway scores as really readable on the Flesch–Kincaid scale, and I imagine Spare does too. 

I would bet that this was a very deliberate choice and they may even have picked a ghostwriter because of his ability to do this. It's really, really, really awfully hard to pull off.  You can use the HemingwayEditor to edit your own writing to be more readable though. Almost a must-have if you want to write for people to read without trouble. (Microsoft Word does now have a variation of this under Editor.)

[viii]

5 minutes ago, Antimony said:

You can use the HemingwayEditor to edit your own writing to be more readable though.

There goes the rest of my work day... 

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

There goes the rest of my work day... 

It should save you time in the long run!

I don't always use it but it is good for like...student assignment descriptions and expectations, informative blog posts, etc. I mostly use it in science communications and to tidy up cover letters. It can be hard to get something to the "ideal" grade level but moving it down a few grades can always help with readability! 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

27 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

But a hereditary monarchy will always have "spares," and there will inevitably be different treatment because one child needs to be prepared to be the monarch. Unless he is advocating for everyone to have only one child, he still seems to be contradicting himself. 

I don't see it as a contradiction necessarily.  He understands why he was a spare and why he was not groomed to be monarch. I'm still in his fairly early years in the book, but it seems that after Diana died he feels he was more or less ignored by the "firm" and still not as protected from the media as other family members.  That's a little different from wanting to be king.  But I can see a young person feeling real jealousy, and Harry's story is that William wasn't at all nice to him growing up. 

(Harry doesn't seem to know his royal history very well, but even in relatively recent history "spares" have become monarchs.  King George V's older brother died before their father, making him next in line when he was in his late 20's. And of course his son George VI was also not expected to become King until after his brother abdicated.  Had Edward stayed on the throne and remained childless, Elizabeth would not have become Queen until her late 40's.  Had he had a child, she wouldn't have become monarch at all.)

[just_ordinary]

I get the point about readability, but here it also sounds kind of dumb? Not able to formulate a more complicated sentence? I guess it works when you have actually something to tell? The ghostwriter might have done a good job executing this style but he can’t magically change garbage into art. So with the basis H provided it reads like fanfic. Not bashing fanfic in general, there is great stuff out there but this is not it. I get that it should sound punchy and on point but there is no depth, the chosen words are meeting you head on. No room for making you think. There is no need to extrapolate any deeper meaning. Apart from wondering in how many ways H is messed up. Just cutting language down to it‘s bones is not the same as the deliberate and artificial creation Hemmingway did. 
Whenever H has a „deep“ moment it sounds like a bunch of A-level/first semester YA, having deep thoughts while drinking and smoking weed in a field on a Saturday night. Most have outgrown that phase at 23-25. Because we learned to structure our knowledge, ideas and arguments and got some real in depth knowledge and weren’t in awe about every tiny thing we learned anymore. 

[adidas]

Re the discussion about autobiography vs memoir - I remember the uproar after Oprah’s book club title “A Million Little Pieces” by James Frey was exposed to be more fiction than fact. It was originally marketed as a memoir but was changed to ‘semi fiction’.

I suspect (and I’m not the only one - see the attached photo) that the same thing will happen with Spare. Poor Oprah, being duped twice by exaggerating liars.

[Giraffe]

29 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I get the point about readability, but here it also sounds kind of dumb? Not able to formulate a more complicated sentence? I guess it works when you have actually something to tell? The ghostwriter might have done a good job executing this style but he can’t magically change garbage into art. So with the basis H provided it reads like fanfic. Not bashing fanfic in general, there is great stuff out there but this is not it. I get that it should sound punchy and on point but there is no depth, the chosen words are meeting you head on. No room for making you think. There is no need to extrapolate any deeper meaning. Apart from wondering in how many ways H is messed up. Just cutting language down to it‘s bones is not the same as the deliberate and artificial creation Hemmingway did. 
Whenever H has a „deep“ moment it sounds like a bunch of A-level/first semester YA, having deep thoughts while drinking and smoking weed in a field on a Saturday night. Most have outgrown that phase at 23-25. Because we learned to structure our knowledge, ideas and arguments and got some real in depth knowledge and weren’t in awe about every tiny thing we learned anymore. 

I am in my 40’s. I’m in a bookclub with other 40 year old and older people. Almost all of us enjoy YA even though we’re all long out of our mid twenties. 

[Destiny]

3 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I am in my 40’s. I’m in a bookclub with other 40 year old and older people. Almost all of us enjoy YA even though we’re all long out of our mid twenties. 

Same. I read a lot of YA and I'm an Old. I know many other Olds who share my love of YA. Just because you find it beneath you does not make your opinion global @just_ordinary.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Destiny

[Loveday]

15 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Same. I read a lot of YA and I'm an Old. I know many other Olds who share my love of YA. Just because you find it beneath you does not make your opinion global @just_ordinary.

I think I must have missed something in @just_ordinary's post? I thought she was talking about actual young adults, not YA literature. (for the record, I LOVE YA lit, though in recent years a lot of it has gotten too dark and dystopian for me)

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, adidas said:

I suspect (and I’m not the only one - see the attached photo) that the same thing will happen with Spare. Poor Oprah, being duped twice by exaggerating liars.

Way more than twice. We have to count Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, and Rhonda Byrne (author of The Secret) and Jenny McCarthy (anti-vax stuff).

The awful thing about Oprah for me, I was thinking about today weirdly, is that I really like her and I enjoy watching her content and a lot of her book club books (really loved The Rapture of Canaan) but she does keep platforming some of the worst.

[noseybutt]

3 hours ago, Antimony said:

This is sometimes called a Hemingway style. It's a pretty good choice for something that is meant to consumed by a broad audience. It has a few hallmarks, but the biggest are short sentences and a lack of adverbs (which Stephen King also hates). Hemingway scores as really readable on the Flesch–Kincaid scale, and I imagine Spare does too. 

I would bet that this was a very deliberate choice and they may even have picked a ghostwriter because of his ability to do this. It's really, really, really awfully hard to pull off.  You can use the HemingwayEditor to edit your own writing to be more readable though. Almost a must-have if you want to write for people to read without trouble. (Microsoft Word does now have a variation of this under Editor.)

Confession:  I occasionally use Hemingway style for reports that I know will be used in legal or public safety settings and read by a wide audience. It is not easy to get right and almost impossible for me to pull off if I am dictating.

[noseybutt]

4 hours ago, viii said:

There's been such an overwhelming wave of Harry information lately these past few days that I might be wrong, but I swear I read something where the ghostwriter came out and spoke out against the book and hates that he's attached to it. 

I found this article about the ghost writer: https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/royals/who-is-jr-moehringer/

He has ghost written numerous books including Agassi’s autobiography. Also won a Pulitzer Prize for an article published in LA Times.

Edited January 13, 2023 by noseybutt

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I am in my 40’s. I’m in a bookclub with other 40 year old and older people. Almost all of us enjoy YA even though we’re all long out of our mid twenties. 

Spare is choppy.  It's more like a beginning fanfic writer than a talented YA writer.  I think the OP was referencing inexperienced writers rather than the genre.  This isn't my preferred style to read for enjoyment.

The ghostwriter probably did the best he could with the material he was given and the personalities of the couple.  

Edited January 13, 2023 by Coconut Flan