Harry & Meghan 12: Prodigal Prince, Immature, Paranoid, Whiner, or Fully Justified?

[viii]

19 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Also, they really don't need the royal connections at all. Meghan got 18 million for her podcast, and there are other, even more lucrative deals in the works. They have no need for royals after a bonanza like that. 

Let's be honest here (as difficult as it is for you) - Meghan only got her podcast (and her 18 million) because she is Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex. She would have never gotten it otherwise. 

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Harry’s book will be published on January 10th. The title is - get this - Spare.

I'm curious. I have zero doubt that Harry was affected by the spare label growing up. It would be hard to know that your parents really only had you in case something happened to your sibling. Some people might not care about that, but Harry strikes me as the sensitive type that cares a lot about what other people say, and if the entire world is remarking on him just being a back-up, I'm not surprised that it's bothered him. 

[Lollipopgirl]

13 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

 

But if you want to play that game factually Diana slept with a couple of married men including her sons riding teacher. She probably made a few wives “desperately unhappy” as well 
 

 

 

 

Exactly. Ask Julia Carling, Will Carlings ex wife.

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Let's be honest here (as difficult as it is for you) - Meghan only got her podcast (and her 18 million) because she is Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex. She would have never gotten it otherwise. 

I'm curious. I have zero doubt that Harry was affected by the spare label growing up. It would be hard to know that your parents really only had you in case something happened to your sibling. Some people might not care about that, but Harry strikes me as the sensitive type that cares a lot about what other people say, and if the entire world is remarking on him just being a back-up, I'm not surprised that it's bothered him. 

But did they? I don’t think so. Diana loved being a mother. And was rumored to want another child at the time of her death. The assumption that he was unwanted doesn’t take into account that his parents were humans with human desires and a family likely was one. Certainly, it’s no secret that Catherine wanted all three of her children. 
 

It is also never recorded that any child in the BRF has been told they were merely a “spare” by any relative. It’s a convention of the press. Diana, in fact, raised them very intentionally as equals and reportedly told Harry he would help William in all of his roles. This may have been a mistake as on William’s marriage that changed. Harry was never going to be deputy Prince of Wales or Assistant King. Leading him to believe that is likely more the problem than anything the press has written. But that was the blessed martyr Diana so can’t be questioned.  

[viii]

I'm not saying Harry was unwanted, so please don't put words in my mouth. I think Charles and Diana would have had two or more children even if they weren't royal. However, because they ARE royal, the option to just have William was not an option for them, which is why Harry was born, ergo making him the "spare". 

And yes - I will agree that Diana built it up too much in Harry's head about being equal to William. He was never going to be his equal, unfortunately, which just really highlights how fucked up and how outdated the monarchy is in general, but that's not the debate here. 

[prayawaythefundie]

Yes, Diana absolutely tried her best to not make Harry feel like the spare in their family. However, many other people in the palace or at school will have used the word or made him feel like the understudy. The influence of those people on him must have grown as he got older and, of course, after Diana‘s death.

It undoubtedly made an impact and would have on anyone. It‘s a set up for a very unhealthy family dynamic. Also, Harry‘s personality may make him particularly vulnerable to this. But will dissecting his struggle publicly make him heal? Probably not. And it certainly won‘t bring him any closer to a reconciliation with his brother who used to be, by his own account, his most trusted confindante and vice versa. With this book he‘ll likely lock that door and throw away the key.

Note on the Wales children: Yes, everyone knows they were wanted. Kate has said she‘d even have another one. William is putting the brakes on (and I don’t blame him 😄). But they will have the same problem to some extend. Two things could play in their favour: there are two spares. They share their fate. And the first one is a girl. She probably will feel a bit less of a rivalry with her brother George as that is usually stronger with siblings of the same sex. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Note on the Wales children: Yes, everyone knows they were wanted. Kate has said she‘d even have another one. William is putting the brakes on (and I don’t blame him 😄). But they will have the same problem to some extend. Two things could play in their favour: there are two spares. They share their fate. And the first one is a girl. She probably will feel a bit less of a rivalry with her brother George as that is usually stronger with siblings of the same sex. 

I think Kate would have likely had three children no matter who she married. She was raised in a family of three and her sister has also had three children. William, however, probably would have been content with two children but I think Louis was born solely to help alleviate the 'spare' issue that the royal family seems to struggle with. At least Charlotte and Louis will have each other as they navigate their futures. 

[louisa05]

6 hours ago, viii said:

I think Kate would have likely had three children no matter who she married. She was raised in a family of three and her sister has also had three children. William, however, probably would have been content with two children but I think Louis was born solely to help alleviate the 'spare' issue that the royal family seems to struggle with. At least Charlotte and Louis will have each other as they navigate their futures. 

There is zero indication that Louis was born to alleviate anything at all. The indication is that his parents wanted another child. Comments by both of them have implied that William’s reticence is not about the children but about his wife’s very difficult pregnancies. 

[viii]

Hence why I said *i think* as in, my own personal opinion. 95% of what is discussed here is our personal opinions and not facts. 🙄

[just_ordinary]

I don’t think having more will help the “spare problem”. Look at the Queen. She had four. Didn’t help with the second son going rouge (and potentially criminal) and becoming an entitled idiot with a jealousy problem and always feeling as if he was cheated and deserves more. Talking about compensating. 
I really do had to snicker when I saw the title. Remember when it was said he writes the book “not as the Prince but as the man he has become”? What exactly are we to expect? A critical view on what the spare position did to him and reflecting on how he, his family and the institution dealt with it, would be an interesting topic. Especially if we saw some self awareness and what this means for his own parenting and how it shapes his actions now. 
But that’s very probably not what we will get. He is softening parts, so it must have been quite the attack and pity party. What exactly does that say about the man he has become? Especially under the light that he still holds onto his titles instead of giving them up and basically sticking the finger to the royal circus. Or complaining about that the children weren’t made P/P at birth. Still feels he is entitled to police protection like people with a constitutional role.

RE M‘s podcast: She probably could still have gotten an exclusive contract. But less lucrative. She would have had to deliver and grow her audience in a more organic way- by delivering relevant and constant content. Her status through her relationship definitely helped, but who knows - she might have developed a very successful podcast on her own as well.

[EmCatlyn]

16 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Oh my. I guess you shouldn‘t judge the book on its title alone but… really? That‘s a lot of self-pity in one word. 

The title was probably chosen by the publisher.  The book cover likewise.

14 hours ago, viii said:

Let's be honest here (as difficult as it is for you) - Meghan only got her podcast (and her 18 million) because she is Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex. She would have never gotten it otherwise. 

I'm curious. I have zero doubt that Harry was affected by the spare label growing up. It would be hard to know that your parents really only had you in case something happened to your sibling. Some people might not care about that, but Harry strikes me as the sensitive type that cares a lot about what other people say, and if the entire world is remarking on him just being a back-up, I'm not surprised that it's bothered him. 

I always thought they had Harry because Diana liked kids.  I don’t think he got the msg that he was born only because his parents needed a “spare.”    

[prayawaythefundie]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

The title was probably chosen by the publisher.  The book cover likewise.

Yes but if you give your name & face to sell a book, you must take the criticism. If he didn‘t like the melodramatic / passive agressive title and cover shot, he should have kept more decision making rights in the contract. He didn‘t. This will get him more attention and more money. Maximum attention is what he wants to compensate his feeling of being neglected by his family in my opinion.

[prayawaythefundie]

13 hours ago, viii said:

I think Kate would have likely had three children no matter who she married. She was raised in a family of three and her sister has also had three children. William, however, probably would have been content with two children but I think Louis was born solely to help alleviate the 'spare' issue that the royal family seems to struggle with. At least Charlotte and Louis will have each other as they navigate their futures. 

This doesn‘t have to be a one or the other though. Couples often discuss having a(nother) child. To me it seems likely that she wanted a third baby and he may have been hesitant (her difficult pregnancies being one reason) and addressing Charlotte‘s possible spare issues helped convince him. Of course I don‘t know. We do speculate a lot here. 
 

ETA: Sorry, I actually meant to quote @louisa05, not @viii and I don‘t know how to change it using just my phone.

Edited October 28, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Yes but if you give your name & face to sell a book, you must take the criticism. If he didn‘t like the melodramatic / passive agressive title and cover shot, he should have kept more decision making rights in the contract. He didn‘t. This will get him more attention and more money. Maximum attention is what he wants to compensate his feeling of being neglected by his family in my opinion.

Titles are usually agreed on by author and editor. He could have said no to that one. Authors also have a ton of input into covers. If my friends publishing small printings of niche novels do, you can bet this overpaid clown did. The publisher has input but H still could have said no to both. 

[viii]

A small printing house is different than one of the big five, though. If you're an author that has signed with one of the big five publishing houses, you rarely have contract approval over your cover. You might have a consultation but the final word is never yours. The title is something you get a little more control over but more often than not, publishing houses change the titles and the authors' hands are pretty much tied. 

[louisa05]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I don’t think having more will help the “spare problem”. Look at the Queen. She had four. Didn’t help with the second son going rouge (and potentially criminal) and becoming an entitled idiot with a jealousy problem and always feeling as if he was cheated and deserves more. Talking about compensating. 
I really do had to snicker when I saw the title. Remember when it was said he writes the book “not as the Prince but as the man he has become”? What exactly are we to expect? A critical view on what the spare position did to him and reflecting on how he, his family and the institution dealt with it, would be an interesting topic. Especially if we saw some self awareness and what this means for his own parenting and how it shapes his actions now. 
But that’s very probably not what we will get. He is softening parts, so it must have been quite the attack and pity party. What exactly does that say about the man he has become? Especially under the light that he still holds onto his titles instead of giving them up and basically sticking the finger to the royal circus. Or complaining about that the children weren’t made P/P at birth. Still feels he is entitled to police protection like people with a constitutional role.

RE M‘s podcast: She probably could still have gotten an exclusive contract. But less lucrative. She would have had to deliver and grow her audience in a more organic way- by delivering relevant and constant content. Her status through her relationship definitely helped, but who knows - she might have developed a very successful podcast on her own as well.

Newest reports are that no changes were made to the book after the Queen’s death. 

[AmazonGrace]

I do hope the title wasn't his own idea. He's almost forty and if he still defined himself as "too bad I'm not my brother" he'd never be able to stop.

[hoipolloi]

9 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I don’t think he got the msg that he was born only because his parents needed a “spare.”    

Agree. He was a wanted child and his birth order had nothing to do with anything. 

His parentsʻ marriage disintegrated due to actions and pressures unrelated to him or William. Sadly, they were pawns in the years-long battle between C & D.

[louisa05]

5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I do hope the title wasn't his own idea. He's almost forty and if he still defined himself as "too bad I'm not my brother" he'd never be able to stop.

I think he does in a way, unfortunately.  

[Jackie3]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:22 AM, viii said:

Let's be honest here (as difficult as it is for you) - Meghan only got her podcast (and her 18 million) because she is Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex. She would have never gotten it otherwise. 

On 10/27/2022 at 7:58 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Of course that's true. However, now that she has the 18 million plus much more from other deals, she doesn't need the royal family connections at all. She is set for life. But absolutely she got the deals because of her Duchess-ness.  (She also earned millions before she was a Duchess)

[Jackie3]

On 10/27/2022 at 1:36 PM, viii said:

I think Kate would have likely had three children no matter who she married. She was raised in a family of three and her sister has also had three children. William, however, probably would have been content with two children but I think Louis was born solely to help alleviate the 'spare' issue that the royal family seems to struggle with. At least Charlotte and Louis will have each other as they navigate their futures. 

Do people usually have the same number of kids as their parents and siblings?  I didn't know that was a thing. She seems to like kids and she has nothing else to do, so she probably had a third because she wanted a third. I suspect she'd like more.

Since Charlotte is the spare, I don't understand why Louis would help alleviate the issue. Unless you mean that now there are two spares?

Harry once said that he doesn't think any of the members of the royal family actually want to be monarch. So I don't think the spare spends his time wishing he were going to be King. I think it's more like, "Phew, I'm not going to be King."

[bergelin]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:46 AM, Jackie3 said:

The Royals made the mistake. Meghan is the one who gets all the press. She doesn't need the royal "clout" to help women--especially since that clout is clouded by hypocrisy and scandal.

I think they never imagined there could be a woman who didn't need the Palace and could reject it. After all, Camilla and Kate would never do so. But they didn't have successful lives of their own, pre-marriage. So the royals were chill with the media abusing Meghan, because they assumed she'd never leave.

By leaving the UK, she was 1) putting her family first and  2) showing other women that they have the right to leave abusive situations.  That's how you stand up for women's rights!

In any event, Meghan successfully raised money for women's charities both before and after her marriage. Unlike the royals, Meghan doesn't just attached her name to a charity and call it a day. Apparently, she actually works. Here's what was said about her work at a Smart Work event :

I think the last thing she wants is to work with any of the royals  again. The Daily Mail would love it, of course. However, I suspect Meghan doesn't want to subject herself to racism and hate just so they can make a buck.

Think about it. Would H&M rather do their work in a damp UK castle, as the media criticizing Meghan's latest outfit?  Or in a sunny California mansion, writing books, promoting charities and doing podcasts?

As she plays on the beach with her kids, I doubt she is longing to be back in the UK wearing tights and funny hats. It was a very smart move and the only one regretting it is the Palace. 

 

Sorry but barf. You sugars do enjoy quite the healthy imagination. 

[prayawaythefundie]

10 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

So I don't think the spare spends his time wishing he were going to be King. I think it's more like, "Phew, I'm not going to be King."

Naming their memoir „spare“ sure makes it look like they do.

[bergelin]

On 10/4/2022 at 3:28 PM, KnittingOwl said:

Yeah, that’s what I don’t get. 
 

An episode each discussing classical female archetypes (ie, mother, goddess, crone, maiden, etc) would be incredibly interesting. How does that play into the perception of women in society and the stereotypes that follow?  But she’s just starting with the stereotypes part. Not that those don’t need exploring, but there’s a lot of other people (some with a lot more authority) already doing that. 

I don't think she understands the definition of either of these words. I'm sure someone tried to tell her, but she doesn't listen to the advice or expertise of anyone because she's always right.

An archetype is like a prototype. Like the blueprint for how trope is made. Writers use archetypes when writing stories, TV/movie scripts, creating art, etc to create the characters and then the storyline. It describes the characters in a well known pattern and may be a positive, negative or neutral description. 

A stereotype is a preconceived and oversimplified idea of the characteristics which typify a person, situation, etc…an attitude based on such a preconception. Also, a person who appears to conform closely to the idea of a type. That's what Meh is attempting to do with this podcast she's recording. 

So she's using the wrong word & definition as the premise to create an entire podcast which is cringy enough. But then she does it in a way where she inserts herself into every scenario with no regard to the truth. She just makes up memories of events in her life that never ever happened. In fact, the stories are almost always traced back to a book, article, scene in a movie or TV episode that she then repeats as her own memory, word for word. She's done this repeatedly, especially in the past 6 years.

Why? Because her own life wasn't interesting. She had parents who loved her, a father who gave her the best money could buy (private schooling from pre-k through university, dance lessons, acting lessons, music lessons, etc), was able to do lots of traveling all around the world, had access and made connections to the lifestyle and perks enjoyed by people who made far more than her father and since her mother wasn't around for most of her late childhood and all of her teens she passed as white girl & never suffered any trauma or hardship beyond that which anyone living her lifestyle would have suffered (cliques, fashion trends, not getting the best part in the school play, boyfriends - typical high school drama). 

So she searches out traumatic or upsetting events that have happened to other people, or stories about such events, tweaks a few details then tells the stories as though they are her own. All in a smarmy "rom com narrator voice over" voice. 

Rebarbative. 

 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

From Tom Bower’s book “Revenge”:

One request regarding a photograph of her sitting down with open sandals generated particular mirth: ‘Please fix my feet for me – I get slaughtered online for [sic] people picking apart my feet, sadly. There’s a scar on my left foot + my right foot isn’t the prettiest (long toe etc) – if you can soften that so that it doesn’t distract from the shot that would be amazing. Silly I know. But trust me…’

Meghan’s two recent interviews included a lot of photos of her normal-looking feet. I wonder if she spent some time and money on plastic surgery on her feet during the pandemic.

[viii]

I’d probably say more photoshop than surgery.