Harry & Meghan 12: Prodigal Prince, Immature, Paranoid, Whiner, or Fully Justified?

[viii]

And I wouldn't put it on Harry alone. It's well known that William wasn't the biggest fan of Camilla either for years. It wasn't until the last three years that he started to warm to her. I think considering how public Charles and Diana's divorce was, the boys heard far more about their parents relationship than a) they should have and b) they normally would have if they were regular people. I'm not surprised that has coloured their view of Camilla - no matter how nice she is. 

[Coconut Flan]

Daily Mail, but it's not entirely wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11332989/Duchess-Despair-Endless-Grievance-rebrands-MAUREEN-CALLAHAN-reviews-new-Meghan-Markle-intv.html

[hoipolloi]

On 10/19/2022 at 4:27 AM, viii said:

And I wouldn't put it on Harry alone. It's well known that William wasn't the biggest fan of Camilla either for years.

Just finished reading Tina Brown's The Palace Papers which was much better than I thought it would be. I recommend it if you are interested in a snarky, well-written 20th-21st century overview of the BRF. The e-edition I had was updated to include the death of QE2. 

She spends a lot of print dissecting the Charles-Diana marriage & the fall-out for the boys, which was  immense. According to her, both boys had a lot of resentment for years about Camilla and saw her affair with their father as a prime factor in their parents's divorce. In recent times -- say the last 5 years or so -- their resentment seems to have subsided and they have a more amicable relationship with her. 

ETA: Brown goes into some depth on the H & M saga and, with her incredible sources, provides some good insight into the various opposing parties, from H (with his various issues), to H + M, to the courtiers, to the press, to senior members of the BRF. She also talked to Samantha Markle (M's half-sister) and their father, Tom Markle. I thought Brown's presentation was pretty even-handed.

Edited October 20, 2022 by hoipolloi
Adding info

[SoSoNosy]

I have that book on my Kindle, just haven't read it yet.  Actually forgot about it until you mentioned it.

 

[viii]

Thanks, @hoipolloi! I'll have to check it out. That timeline sounds likely from everything else that's been reported. I'd even say that up until the last 5 years or so, William didn't even have that great of a relationship with Charles. 

[Coconut Flan]

E-book is on hold.  Thanks.

[Loveday]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:53 PM, hoipolloi said:

Just finished reading Tina Brown's The Palace Papers which was much better than I thought it would be. I recommend it if you are interested in a snarky, well-written 20th-21st century overview of the BRF. The e-edition I had was updated to include the death of QE2. 

She spends a lot of print dissecting the Charles-Diana marriage & the fall-out for the boys, which was  immense. According to her, both boys had a lot of resentment for years about Camilla and saw her affair with their father as a prime factor in their parents's divorce. In recent times -- say the last 5 years or so -- their resentment seems to have subsided and they have a more amicable relationship with her. 

ETA: Brown goes into some depth on the H & M saga and, with her incredible sources, provides some good insight into the various opposing parties, from H (with his various issues), to H + M, to the courtiers, to the press, to senior members of the BRF. She also talked to Samantha Markle (M's half-sister) and their father, Tom Markle. I thought Brown's presentation was pretty even-handed.

Just put this on hold at my library. Can't wait to read it. I was reading through the sample on Amazon, and Brown mentions the HR department at Buckingham Palace, "...a surreal-sounding place that few people had ever heard of (and that sounded ripe for a BBC sitcom written by Ricky Gervais)." Now, I don't know about y'all, but I would pay extra to watch that show! 😆

 

[hoipolloi]

Iʻll be very interested to hear what all of you think about The Palace Papers.

To be truthful, I was predisposed to dislike it because I don't think much of Tina Brown, especially after her stint as editor of The New Yorker for a few years. She made a lot of changes, for the sake of change, it seemed to me. Some were good (like including photography) but many of them were pointless and stupid, making the magazine more like Us or People.

After reading this book, however, my opinion went way up. She's a good journalist and I think did justice to her subject(s). 

[SoSoNosy]

I started the book yesterday, it looks promising.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

The Palace Papers is pretty good, but a significant amount of it is recycled from Brown’s biography of Diana.

[hoipolloi]

51 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The Palace Papers is pretty good, but a significant amount of it is recycled from Brown’s biography of Diana.

I wondered. I hadn't read that earlier book but that makes sense. Donʻt think I can get my public library to purchase a license for it -- maybe it will be an Amazon Daily Deal for $1.99 at some point.

[EmCatlyn]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:27 AM, viii said:

And I wouldn't put it on Harry alone. It's well known that William wasn't the biggest fan of Camilla either for years. It wasn't until the last three years that he started to warm to her. I think considering how public Charles and Diana's divorce was, the boys heard far more about their parents relationship than a) they should have and b) they normally would have if they were regular people. I'm not surprised that has coloured their view of Camilla - no matter how nice she is. 

We all know that Diana hated Camilla.  And I am sure that Harry and William heard all about how horrible Camilla-the-homewrecker was.  It is quite understandable if they don’t feel warmly toward her.

I doubt there is anything Harry can say about his feelings about how his father and Camilla behaved towards his mother that would cause problems at this late date.  What may concern Charles is if Harry reports “new” things (beyond what is generally known) that make Camilla look bad.  These could be facts, exaggeration or total fabrication.  The new King and Queen don’t need new “dirt” thrown at him by Charles’s own son.

That being said, the one who is probably most vulnerable from this tell-all is William.  I am sure there are stories from their youth that Harry could bring up which might make William look bad.  

[Coconut Flan]

Doing any of that would end any hope of a reconciliation and I wonder if that's why Harry seems to be rethinking part of the book.

[prayawaythefundie]

So the palace is keeping quiet on Archie‘s and Lilibet’s titles and Harry‘s book is delayed (probably revised). Could there be some negotiations going on?

[Jackie3]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, just_ordinary said:

The facts that it’s still unclear if their children are in fact P/P (and there are very good arguments why they might not have gotten the title automatically) and that there are already concerns about Charles‘ health were wake up calls. At the moment they still need the royal connections but H must know that the whole machinery is now circling around Charles.

I don't think they even want the Prince/Princess titles for their kids. Remember, two of the Queen's children declined them. Both Prince Edward and Prince Anne thought their kids' were better off without them. I would bet Meghan and Harry agree!

Also, they really don't need the royal connections at all. Meghan got 18 million for her podcast, and there are other, even more lucrative deals in the works. They have no need for royals after a bonanza like that. 

[Jackie3]

On 10/24/2022 at 2:03 PM, EmCatlyn said:

I am sure there are stories from their youth that Harry could bring up which might make William look bad.  

It's actually a healthy thing to reveal family secrets. I wonder what Charles/Camilla/William did, which makes them so nervous? Of course, they could be afraid of lies, but that's not the feeling I get. It seems like they are afraid of something that really. happened. In any event, it's never good to keep family secrets hidden, so much healthier to bring them to light!

[Jackie3]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:56 PM, tabitha2 said:

To have his own son potentially be participating in that ugliness has got to be both enraging and heart breaking for the man Esp. as Harry knows very well she has done nothing but good for the family and how happy she has made Charles.

Harry is entitled to speak his truth. He is not bound to a code of silence. Like anyone else, he is allowed to discuss his past.

I am not sure I agree that Camilla has done good for the family. She caused Diana to be desperately unhappy. She cheated on her own husband with a married man. She's shown very poor character. 

If the royal family behaved in a caring, honest, empathic way, then they have little to fear from this book.

[tabitha2]

Yup. He can discuss it and then take the consequences. 
 

Diana was a fragile  with emotional problems from a broken family and genetic inheritance in the Spencer family. Granted the Royal family was totally the wrong environment for her and exacerbated her problems but she probably would have had difficulties and needed therapy wherever she ended up. But if you must blame Charles not Camilla… Camilla had no obligation to placate Diana. But if you want to play that game factually Diana slept with a couple of married men including her sons riding teacher. She probably made a few wives “desperately unhappy” as well 
 

 

Andrew Parker Bowles knew she was playing around and did it not care. He was doing it too. They had that kind of marriage so there were no victims here. 
 

 

 

[prayawaythefundie]

8 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Also, they really don't need the royal connections at all.

Makes me wonder why they keep bringing them up all the time. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[nelliebelle1197]

14 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't think they even want the Prince/Princess titles for their kids. Remember, two of the Queen's children declined them. Both Prince Edward and Prince Anne thought their kids' were better off without them. I would bet Meghan and Harry agree!

Also, they really don't need the royal connections at all. Meghan got 18 million for her podcast, and there are other, even more lucrative deals in the works. They have no need for royals after a bonanza like that. 

Yeah they do. They have been clear they expect the titles. And without the royal connections, they have nothing to offer. Nothing. The more time passes and the more marginalized they are in the family, the fewer opportunities they will have. They will be just like the Wallis and Bertie in a few years.

Edited October 27, 2022 by nelliebelle1197

[tabitha2]

Having an actual little Princess as her daughter can be marketed in all sorts of lucrative ways. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Harry’s book will be published on January 10th. The title is - get this - Spare.

[prayawaythefundie]

20 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Harry’s book will be published on January 10th. The title is - get this - Spare.

Oh my. I guess you shouldn‘t judge the book on its title alone but… really? That‘s a lot of self-pity in one word. 

[louisa05]

8 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Oh my. I guess you shouldn‘t judge the book on its title alone but… really? That‘s a lot of self-pity in one word. 

Not supposed to judge by the cover either, but it’s basically a mug shot. That’s a choice. 

[Coconut Flan]

More pitiful me I'm a victim?