Dillards 92: Prosecuting All Of Us

[patsymae]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:08 AM, Idlewild said:

JB & M, if they have any sense, will stay quiet. However don’t forget JB thought he’d win an election while Josh was facing CSA images charges - he has a tremendously inflated sense of his own wisdom and importance.

The book will shake down the the JB followers - Jed has outed himself early. I seriously doubt any of the daughters will come out in support - Jessa and Joy will probably maintain a relationship with both their parents and Jill, but keep their views private. 

Not just the Senate run but he and Meech and one or more of the kids, and even a baby, had their own float in the town's Christmas parade. If that were my kid I'd be hiding in the basement.

[JDuggs]

Jill posted this to her stories a couple of days ago. I thought someone else might post it and then I forgot about it. I can’t believe someone had the nerve to tell Jill that some kids are truly abused while ignoring the fact that she was molested by her brother and not protected by her parents. How can someone leave out that crucial information? I’m glad Jill posted the bs she is putting up with.

Spoiler

 

[patsymae]

56 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

Jill posted this to her stories a couple of days ago. I thought someone else might post it and then I forgot about it. I can’t believe someone had the nerve to tell Jill that some kids are truly abused while ignoring the fact that she was molested by her brother and not protected by her parents. How can someone leave out that crucial information? I’m glad Jill posted the bs she is putting up with.

  Hide contents

 

Hitler thought he was doing the right thing too. I hate this whole BS about how your pain doesn't matter because somebody else has it worse.

[HeartsAFundie]

FYI:  The book is now being released in September.  Just got notice from Amazon.  

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by HeartsAFundie

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

FYI:  The book is now being released in September.  Just got notice from Amazon.  

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by AussieKrissy
opps I didnt write anything! I meant to say they brought it forward to capatalise on the doco

[JermajestyDuggar]

What’s funny is that out of the 4 oldest Duggar daughters, Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleasers of the bunch. While although Jessa and Jana were rebel had girls or anything, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were people pleasers. And yet the 2 biggest people pleasers in the family have been the ones to denounce Gothard.

[Jackie3]

36 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What’s funny is that out of the 4 oldest Duggar daughters, Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleasers of the bunch. While although Jessa and Jana were rebel had girls or anything, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were people pleasers. And yet the 2 biggest people pleasers in the family have been the ones to denounce Gothard.

I know! I think this is funny too. I used to think Jill had really drunk the koolaid.

[zimona]

49 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What’s funny is that out of the 4 oldest Duggar daughters, Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleasers of the bunch. While although Jessa and Jana were rebel had girls or anything, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were people pleasers. And yet the 2 biggest people pleasers in the family have been the ones to denounce Gothard.

Well, you could count people pleasing as "fawn"-response, which is along fight, flee, and freeze one of the '4F-responses' to high level stress and (perceived) danger. It's a bit like Stockholm syndrome in the sense that you identify with the aggressor's wishes, trying to fulfill them in order to avoid punishment (or worse). 

Once you're living in a different context with different people around you, this people pleasing behaviour might seem strange or even be a source of conflict. I've had people  pointing out to me (in an exasperated manner) that I'm constantly apologizing, even for things that were just a given. I didn't even think about what I was doing and why, over the years it had turned into a reflex, trying to keep me 'safe'. But once this behaviour that once kept you safe turns into a problem, you start questioning what you're doing and why.... And one question will lead to the next and the next one after.

If anything, the fact that the Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleaser shows to me the enormous amount of stress they were carrying while growing up in this f*cked-up family... 

[CaseyGrace]

6 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Jill posted this to her stories a couple of days ago. I thought someone else might post it and then I forgot about it. I can’t believe someone had the nerve to tell Jill that some kids are truly abused while ignoring the fact that she was molested by her brother and not protected by her parents. How can someone leave out that crucial information? I’m glad Jill posted the bs she is putting up with.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

so much is wrong with that dm but I am stuck on the suggestion that because Jim bob gave them the McMansion that means they were being adequately paid for the show.......that doesn't make any fucking sense. there is no excuse for Jim bob to just pocket that money instead of setting up Coogan accounts (I understand that coogns law isn't federal but it should be) for the minors and paying the adult kids. what he and Michelle did is evil and inexcusable and there is no defending it. 

6 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Jill posted this to her stories a couple of days ago. I thought someone else might post it and then I forgot about it. I can’t believe someone had the nerve to tell Jill that some kids are truly abused while ignoring the fact that she was molested by her brother and not protected by her parents. How can someone leave out that crucial information? I’m glad Jill posted the bs she is putting up with.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Jill is a better woman than me because I would have cussed their asses out.... I can tell she has been in therapy so good for her! 

[Smee]

That’s an incredibly mature and generous response from Jill. She could have argued back about so many of the details (like, yeah, beating with a switch is abuse, there was food scarcity and hygiene issues without enough bathroom access, there was no protection from sexual assault and being called a “tattle tale” for telling the truth) and whether they were “given” the house vs allowed to live in it (whose name was on the deed? Did they sell it and profit?) but it was probably a wiser move to just sidestep the specifics and remind them that one person’s trauma doesn’t invalidate another’s.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, zimona said:

Well, you could count people pleasing as "fawn"-response, which is along fight, flee, and freeze one of the '4F-responses' to high level stress and (perceived) danger. It's a bit like Stockholm syndrome in the sense that you identify with the aggressor's wishes, trying to fulfill them in order to avoid punishment (or worse). 

Once you're living in a different context with different people around you, this people pleasing behaviour might seem strange or even be a source of conflict. I've had people  pointing out to me (in an exasperated manner) that I'm constantly apologizing, even for things that were just a given. I didn't even think about what I was doing and why, over the years it had turned into a reflex, trying to keep me 'safe'. But once this behaviour that once kept you safe turns into a problem, you start questioning what you're doing and why.... And one question will lead to the next and the next one after.

If anything, the fact that the Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleaser shows to me the enormous amount of stress they were carrying while growing up in this f*cked-up family... 

I agree that it was likely very stressful for them. But the people pleasing aspect is exactly what Gothard wanted from all the women in the cult. That’s what’s interesting to me. He wanted a bunch of people pleasing women yet look at all of those women who have now spoken out. The ones he sexually harassed. The ones like Jill and Jinger. It backfired on him in a way. 

[Cam]

 

2 hours ago, Smee said:

That’s an incredibly mature and generous response from Jill. She could have argued back about so many of the details (like, yeah, beating with a switch is abuse, there was food scarcity and hygiene issues without enough bathroom access, there was no protection from sexual assault and being called a “tattle tale” for telling the truth) and whether they were “given” the house vs allowed to live in it (whose name was on the deed? Did they sell it and profit?) but it was probably a wiser move to just sidestep the specifics and remind them that one person’s trauma doesn’t invalidate another’s.

Agree 100%. I love Jill’s reply and that Derick didn’t jump in to defend her but let her take it on. 

There’s a best-selling book “Maybe You Should Talk to Someone” by Lori Gottlieb, a psychotherapist. True story about both her professional and personal life. (Highly recommended, excellent read. Her first career was as a film and tv executive.) She discusses the wide range of problems her clients deal with, from one dying of cancer to another one who’s babysitter is stealing from her. As a therapist she learned to see that regardless of the situations, all pain is pain and should not be minimized. (The book was so insightful to me and helped me grow. My family minimized everything I went through because it didn’t match someone else’s drama. I was never important enough to pay attention to.) Jill’s response is right on target. 
 

7 hours ago, zimona said:

Well, you could count people pleasing as "fawn"-response, which is along fight, flee, and freeze one of the '4F-responses' to high level stress and (perceived) danger. It's a bit like Stockholm syndrome in the sense that you identify with the aggressor's wishes, trying to fulfill them in order to avoid punishment (or worse). 

 

 

Wow, I never heard of the fawn part of the response to high levels of stress but it sounds so very true. I was suuuch a people pleaser. It is a very difficult trait to change. 

[nst]

11 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What’s funny is that out of the 4 oldest Duggar daughters, Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleasers of the bunch. While although Jessa and Jana were rebel had girls or anything, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were people pleasers. And yet the 2 biggest people pleasers in the family have been the ones to denounce Gothard.

everyone has breaking points, and I am glad they are exposing the lies.

[CanadianMamam]

Jill's book got moved up to September. I bet they want to capitalize on the success of the documentary. 

[Bobology]

4 hours ago, Cam said:

(The book was so insightful to me and helped me grow. My family minimized everything I went through because it didn’t match someone else’s drama. I was never important enough to pay attention to.)

This makes me think of Carlin Bates.

As the people-pleasers in the family, Jill and Jinger could also have been the more "used" by JB and M because they were (maybe) extremely easy to control. They could have been impacted differently from all the abusive ways of their parents, all while still having to perform as adults.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Bobology said:

This makes me think of Carlin Bates.

As the people-pleasers in the family, Jill and Jinger could also have been the more "used" by JB and M because they were (maybe) extremely easy to control. They could have been impacted differently from all the abusive ways of their parents, all while still having to perform as adults.

I’m sure when there was a particularly awful job to do, they asked the people pleasers first. Like if a toddler threw up all over the bathroom, JB and Michelle wouldn’t be cleaning that up. And they probably went straight to Jill to clean it up. JB’s favorite would always be the one with instant obedience and admiration. And I’m guessing that was Jill for a long time. She was probably stuck with a lot of shit jobs and high expectations. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:09 AM, viii said:

Jill has made huge progress. She still has some room to grow (all fundies do), but I'm really impressed with her from the two episodes I watched. 

I’d even say all people have room to grow. None of us are ever done.

 

On 6/8/2023 at 6:10 PM, patsymae said:

Not just the Senate run but he and Meech and one or more of the kids, and even a baby, had their own float in the town's Christmas parade. If that were my kid I'd be hiding in the basement.

I think I would have died of shame. 
 

15 hours ago, Smee said:

That’s an incredibly mature and generous response from Jill. She could have argued back about so many of the details (like, yeah, beating with a switch is abuse, there was food scarcity and hygiene issues without enough bathroom access, there was no protection from sexual assault and being called a “tattle tale” for telling the truth) and whether they were “given” the house vs allowed to live in it (whose name was on the deed? Did they sell it and profit?) but it was probably a wiser move to just sidestep the specifics and remind them that one person’s trauma doesn’t invalidate another’s.

Did they say Jim Bob and Michelle used a switch? I had read speculation years ago that Michelle used plastic rulers.
 

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sure when there was a particularly awful job to do, they asked the people pleasers first. Like if a toddler threw up all over the bathroom, JB and Michelle wouldn’t be cleaning that up. And they probably went straight to Jill to clean it up. JB’s favorite would always be the one with instant obedience and admiration. And I’m guessing that was Jill for a long time. She was probably stuck with a lot of shit jobs and high expectations. 

Cleaning up vomit might have had a silver lining, you’d get some alone time. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I figure the Duggars just used what the Pearls recommended. I think they liked pvc pipe or glue sticks because it didn’t leave bruising. Which is proof of the abuse. 

[kjmackin]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:00 AM, CaseyGrace said:

there is no excuse for Jim bob to just pocket that money instead of setting up Coogan accounts (I understand that coogns law isn't federal but it should be) for the minors and paying the adult kids. what he and Michelle did is evil and inexcusable and there is no defending it. 

 

The only issue with Coogan Law,as written in California*,with expanding it with on a federal level JB would still be able to pocket the money since the kids who are involved in reality shows aren’t seen in the same light as child actors according to law. It is a major issue but it is also why it’s cheaper to make reality shows. Expanding it on a federal level there need to a clause in there 
 

* Pennsylvania at one point was working on including reality show children but I don’t know if it got passed 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Wrong thread! I don’t understand my brain today. Sorry!

Edited June 10, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[shesinsane]

1 hour ago, kjmackin said:

The only issue with Coogan Law,as written in California*,with expanding it with on a federal level JB would still be able to pocket the money since the kids who are involved in reality shows aren’t seen in the same light as child actors according to law. It is a major issue but it is also why it’s cheaper to make reality shows. Expanding it on a federal level there need to a clause in there 
 

* Pennsylvania at one point was working on including reality show children but I don’t know if it got passed 

It did. On https://www.dli.pa.gov/Individuals/Labor-Management-Relations/llc/child-labor/Pages/default.aspx I found the Application for minors in performances, and it specifies reality programming (IMHO that's in reaction to the Gosselin family).

Quote

For the employment of any minor under 18, in compliance with the Pennsylvania Child Labor Act in a performance where a minor models or renders artistic creative expression in a live performance, radio, television, movie, Internet, publication, documentary, reality programming, or other broadcast medium that is transmitted to an audience, please download the Application for Minors in Performances.

For those outside the US, I'll add that Pennsylvania state law only applies to that state, so it has no effect on the Duggar family filming in Arkansas. A federal law would apply to every show in every state but for now, a tv producer can avoid these laws by only working with subjects in states that lack reality tv regulations.

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, kjmackin said:

The only issue with Coogan Law,as written in California*,with expanding it with on a federal level JB would still be able to pocket the money since the kids who are involved in reality shows aren’t seen in the same light as child actors according to law. It is a major issue but it is also why it’s cheaper to make reality shows. Expanding it on a federal level there need to a clause in there 

A California court ruled that Coogan applied to Octomom and her kids.  It became applicable to reality show kids here.  That's why you see so few children on reality shows filmed in California.  

[Hera]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:12 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

What’s funny is that out of the 4 oldest Duggar daughters, Jill and Jinger were the biggest people pleasers of the bunch. While although Jessa and Jana were rebel had girls or anything, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were people pleasers. And yet the 2 biggest people pleasers in the family have been the ones to denounce Gothard.

Not that surprising to me. People pleasers tend to please the ones they’re closest to and both Jill and Jinger both married men who aren’t steeped in the Gothard Kool-aid. Leave and cleave didn’t quite work out like JB thought it would, but it did work. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I have also observed that the people who are more steeped into the Kool-Aid and fanatical about something - be it religion, political creed, food/exercise habits... - when they see one small crack in the plot, it kind of wrecks their whole system and they question everything, oftentimes completely reneging on the same belief system they held on to for maybe years. I think it's what's happening to Jill to some extent- she is not fully there, but she will get there. Jill went from Kool-Aid to Diet Coke, whereas Jinger, in my opinion, went from Orange Kool-Aid to Strawberry Kool-Aid. 

It will be good to see Jill going to tequila one day  

Edited June 15, 2023 by Shouldabeenacowboy

[feministxtian]

8 hours ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I think it's what's happening to Jill to some extent- she is not fully there, but she will get there.

I think Jill is slowly finding her way clear of the IBLP brainwashing. It'll take time. She's come this far in less than 10 years. What will the next 10 years hold for her? Jinger will do whatever Books tells her to do. She has her silken cage, the big city, financial means, and can live the life she thinks she wants. I don't see her really doing the work that Jill has done.