Charles and Camilla

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, 47of74 said:

Yeah I just saw that too that they'll be crowned on May 6.  Thought he would've wanted to keep it closer to the day his mother was crowned but I guess it's what he wants.  It will also be his grandson Archie's 4th birthday.

There are many moving parts to scheduling a coronation. Security, schedules for government officials and members of the family, and Commonwealth heads off state. It’s not about when he wants it. And a grandchild’s birthday certainly isn’t a priority when scheduling around world leaders and governmental concerns. Especially a grandchild he’s barely seen who is being raised in a foreign country. 

[viii]

Yeah, I don't see a big deal about the date. There's a lot that goes into a coronation, and Archie's birthday can be easily celebrated a different day. It's not like Archie will know the difference. I imagine that Harry & Meghan will bring the kids over for it, but who knows. 

[47of74]

13 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Easy enough to celebrate on the 5th or 7th or other close date as families do all the time when the child’s birthday occurs on a Holiday or other important event. 

My nieces both have their birthdays in early April. My sister in law didn’t want to have my younger niece on her elder sister’s birthday but she knew right away she was due in early April and it would a c section since it a high risk for her so she scheduled it for three days after my older niece’s birthday.  Works out well since they can have joint celebrations and family living further away don’t have to make multiple trips. 

[rosamundi]

12 hours ago, 47of74 said:

Yeah I just saw that too that they'll be crowned on May 6.  Thought he would've wanted to keep it closer to the day his mother was crowned but I guess it's what he wants.  It will also be his grandson Archie's 4th birthday.

He may not have wanted to overshadow his mother's coronation anniversary. His grandfather was also crowned in early May. 6th May also has a reasonable chance of being a Bank Holiday or close to a Bank Holiday for future Trooping of the Colour dates (for example, 6th May 2024 is a Bank Holiday).

As well as the scheduling nightmare that it is to organise an international event on this scale, there are also domestic schedules to consider. 3rd June is also FA Cup final day and William is the President of the Football Association, and it is traditional that the President attends and presents the cup to the winner, so if William had any input he may have said "could you avoid that day if possible." Apart from anything else, it would look bad for the viewing figures if millions of people suddenly switched over to watch the football. Charles has never struck me as a horsey person in the same way his Mother was, but he did inherit the racing stables and 3rd June is also Derby Day.

[just_ordinary]

23 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Easy enough to celebrate on the 5th or 7th or other close date as families do all the time when the child’s birthday occurs on a Holiday or other important event. 

True. But that’s normally just a coincidence. Most people (with normal sized families) try to avoid putting stuff like that on the same day- at least when it’s two events that are celebrated regularly with all parties involved. 
Now, I don’t expect KCIII to throw a coronation party every year, nor do I think he will attend many birthday parties for Archie (or his other grandchildren for that matter- probably an afternoon tea around the day? Just can’t see him and Cams to join the Middletons for this though.). It also isn’t a milestone birthday. Thing is, if he wants the Sussexes to join, they will have to refrain from really celebrating Archie on this day but instead follow the protocol and all have to bring a stellar performance. In my experience most children care about their birthday from the age of 3 in one way or another. They definitely know when their birthday is as well. I mean, I could sell it to my 4year old as a special birthday trip. But a cake would most definitely be requested. And a small party (like a play date with cake) with kindergarten/neighbour friends sometime later, because that’s what they experience with peers. And I would prepare for a meltdown on the day because reality will very possibly not match their expectations. And it’s not just one day. They surely will arrive at least 1 or 2 days before and also stay for another additional 24h afterwards. But I don’t see a small royal birthday bash for Archie as they will all be extremely busy. So yeah…,,
It’s indeed not a big deal in the big picture, but I can appreciate that in this case the Sussexes will have to put an important day in their lives on the bench because Charles picked this day for his coronation. 
I do think there are many things that influenced the date. From security, to schedules, to preparation timelines, to collisions with other events to maybe him wanting it done as quickly as appropriate. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t realise it’s one of his grandchildren’s birthday. I somehow doubt he knows those 5 dates on top of his head. And while this might just be the best available date for the set parameters (whatever they might be), this could easily be another moment for H&M to feel disregarded. And I can emphasise with both sides here.

All of this is speculation though. H&M might not care, or eve think it’s cool. They might considering not going anyway or coming and telling everyone how stressful it is or just happily rolling with it. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by just_ordinary

[louisa05]

6 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

True. But that’s normally just a coincidence. Most people (with normal sized families) try to avoid putting stuff like that on the same day- at least when it’s two events that are celebrated regularly with all parties involved. 
Now, I don’t expect KCIII to throw a coronation party every year, nor do I think he will attend many birthday parties for Archie (or his other grandchildren for that matter- probably an afternoon tea around the day? Just can’t see him and Cams to join the Middletons for this though.). It also isn’t a milestone birthday. Thing is, if he wants the Sussexes to join, they will have to refrain from really celebrating Archie on this day but instead follow the protocol and all have to bring a stellar performance. In my experience most children care about their birthday from the age of 3 in one way or another. They definitely know when their birthday is as well. I mean, I could sell it to my 4year old as a special birthday trip. But a cake would most definitely be requested. And a small party (like a play date with cake) with kindergarten/neighbour friends sometime later, because that’s what they experience with peers. And I would prepare for a meltdown on the day because reality will very possibly not match their expectations. And it’s not just one day. They surely will arrive at least 1 or 2 days before and also stay for another additional 24h afterwards. But I don’t see a small royal birthday bash for Archie as they will all be extremely busy. So yeah…,,
It’s indeed not a big deal in the big picture, but I can appreciate that in this case the Sussexes will have to put an important day in their lives on the bench because Charles picked this day for his coronation. 
I do think there are many things that influenced the date. From security, to schedules, to preparation timelines, to collisions with other events to maybe him wanting it done as quickly as appropriate. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t realise it’s one of his grandchildren’s birthday. I somehow doubt he knows those 5 dates on top of his head. And while this might just be the best available date for the set parameters (whatever they might be), this could easily be another moment for H&M to feel disregarded. And I can emphasise with both sides here.

All of this is speculation though. H&M might not care, or eve think it’s cool. They might considering not going anyway or coming and telling everyone how stressful it is or just happily rolling with it. 

H&M spent Archie’s birthday at polo without him this year. They spent Easter on another continent without either child. And we’re suddenly worried about them not spending one birthday exclusively with the kid??? Because we may be more worried than they are. 

[tabitha2]

Real talk. Those two kids don’t really ever stop the couple from going and doing exactly what they want. 

[just_ordinary]

13 hours ago, louisa05 said:

H&M spent Archie’s birthday at polo without him this year. They spent Easter on another continent without either child. And we’re suddenly worried about them not spending one birthday exclusively with the kid??? Because we may be more worried than they are. 

True. I forgot about that. But it’s different if you decide this on your own whim or if your family „forces“ you to make this decision. But I think you have an important point. H&M might not care about this at all. 

[Giraffe]

14 hours ago, louisa05 said:

H&M spent Archie’s birthday at polo without him this year. They spent Easter on another continent without either child. And we’re suddenly worried about them not spending one birthday exclusively with the kid??? Because we may be more worried than they are. 

Oh I bet this time they’ll suddenly care about it. 🙄

[viii]

I don't know, they didn't make a fuss when the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebrations were held on June 4 - Lilibet's first birthday. 

[tabitha2]

Their care and fussing is selective. If it suits whatever plans they have and if they want to sell a book or interview it will suddenly be so traumatic and hurtful and they forced  to make such difficult choice *dabs moist eyes*

 

Or they will ignore the matter completely. 

[hoipolloi]

This *is* the Daily Fail, so caveat lector and all that, but it would quite something if C3 authorized this investigation:

 

[Mama Mia]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:23 AM, tabitha2 said:

Their care and fussing is selective. If it suits whatever plans they have and if they want to sell a book or interview it will suddenly be so traumatic and hurtful and they forced  to make such difficult choice *dabs moist eyes*

 

Or they will ignore the matter completely. 

This line of thought confuses me. When an adult child  even moderately speaks out and somewhat moves away from the highly controlling, ritualistic, cultish systems we snark on here we applaud them, and are generally understanding that they may not want a complete break from their family systems- but are exposing their experiences of the downsides, and that’s progress. We accept they are flawed.  We acknowledge that a supportive spouse is likely a large part of the reason they are  able to speak more freely ( Hello Jill Duggar  ) —- But that appears to be exactly what happened with Meghan and Harry - and people hate them. 
 

I LOVE all the pageantry, and tradition, and beautiful clothes and jewels and crowns. But bottom line the hierarchy and rigidity and sheer arrogance of monarchy is at least  as objectively cultish as any fundamentalist sect. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mama Mia

[viii]

@Mama Mia I've learned that our line of thinking is definitely the minority when it comes to this board. If Harry and Meghan were fundie and broke away, they would be completely praised. The royal family can't be criticized like a fundie family though, for who knows what reasons. I mean, I grew up my entire life adoring my girl Lizzie but the older I get, the more aware I become of how completely flawed she was and how she was the figurehead of an extremely fucked up institution. I'm not saying Harry and Meghan are perfect, because lord knows that their behavior leaves me scratching my head a lot of the time, but it's definitely interesting to watch how a strong willed woman who speaks her mind is regarded on this board. 

@hoipolloi This would be amazing. I would love to see this finally solved for once and for all. So many theories out there that I'd love to see which one is right! 

[hoipolloi]

36 minutes ago, viii said:

This would be amazing. I would love to see this finally solved for once and for all. So many theories out there that I'd love to see which one is right! 

I totally agree.

This Wikipedia article (again, caveat lector) has a good summary & includes some additional mysterious burial finds from the Tower and St. Georgeʻs Chapel. I think itʻs great that C3 may be willing to allow the necessary scientific investigations.

[Loveday]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

This *is* the Daily Fail, so caveat lector and all that, but it would quite something if C3 authorized this investigation:

 

As a longtime armchair archaeologist and extremely amateur historian, especially that of the British persuasion (anyone else here besides me ever watch Time Team? 🤩), I'm mentally squeeing all over the place at the very thought that King Charles might actually grant permission for this!

[treehugger]

@viii and @Mama Mia, I could see what you are saying, but at least for myself, I think it is possible both to criticize the BRF and not be impressed by H&M at the same time.  I really liked Meghan at first, I was a huge fan.  My daughters and I got up early and dressed up to watch the wedding and I had such high hopes for what she would bring to the monarchy (which is not actually an institution I am impressed with at all).  And I was so glad for them when they moved away and did what they thought was best for their family.  But I have soured on them.  

I am still so supportive (not that they need my support) of their decision to leave what they felt was an unhealthy environment, and I was really happy that they were seeking out the peace and privacy they said they wanted.  But, it turns out, the hypocrisy is off the charts.  The very things I find fucked up about the monarchy: the obscene privilege and wealth, the utter lack of privacy, etc... are the same things that H&M seem unwilling to want to give up.  

Yes, Meghan is a strong women and a force, which is a good thing, but she is also increasing striking me as opportunistic and I am a lot less impressed by her character than I initially wanted to be.  My criticisms of them both have nothing whatever to do with her being a women and speaking her mind, and everything to do with they way that they both (honestly Harry is even worse) have decided to play the victim card when they are privileged beyond belief and honestly, just seem so self-absorbed.  Even the charitable photo-ops they do are full of themselves and not actually helpful.  All words and not substance.  I do not hate them for wanting a different life, but I sure as heck will call out their desire for privilege without responsibility.  

Meghan is not a poor, undereducated fundie bride who married while she was still a child.  She is a grown ass woman with enormous privilege, and Harry has always had the privilege of obscene wealth without the responsibility of being the heir.  Yes, they are leaving an oppressive system, but they are doing it with the wealth and influence and opportunities that our fundie children do not.  I struggle to muster a lot of sympathy for them when most of their negative press is of their own making.  

[prayawaythefundie]

While I think Harry & Meghan had every right to leave for being unhappy, I guess they can‘t expect us to be so sympathetic to their complaints about an admittedly flawed system / institution simply because they really had it good compared to the average person.

Fundy kids usually grow up deprived of many things we would consider normal and take for granted. Their complaints instantly make sense. Royals who leave & complain do however - and we have discussed this at length here - complain about a life full of priviledges. It just does not go down so well with the struggling middle class to whine about being cut off from lots of money while still being able to afford a very fancy home in Montecito.

Don‘t get me wrong, the working royals do provoke envy as well since they are filthy rich. They just got one thing right: you usually won‘t hear them complain. 

[Teaistheway]

43 minutes ago, Loveday said:

(anyone else here besides me ever watch Time Team? 🤩),

Me....but I am British so probably don't count 🤣 History geek though and this is one mystery I would love to see solved

[Loveday]

11 minutes ago, Teaistheway said:

Me....but I am British so probably don't count 🤣 History geek though and this is one mystery I would love to see solved

Of course you count! 😆 That show, I'm tellin' ya, I would spend HOURS late at night watching episodes on YouTube. And there were over 250 of them if you count all the 'specials!' At some point someone tried to do a US version here, but it was a slow, boring mess, and there were no American equivalents to Phil, Mick (may he RIP forever!), Tony, or any of the other greats of the UK show. I don't think they even lasted six episodes. 🙄

Yeah, I'll be on the edge of my seat watching this mystery get sorted out!

[viii]

43 minutes ago, treehugger said:

@viii and @Mama Mia, I could see what you are saying, but at least for myself, I think it is possible both to criticize the BRF and not be impressed by H&M at the same time. 

Oh absolutely, but that's not what's happening here. I have zero issues with criticizing BRF and H&M. However, I have noticed that the majority of people in this section typically criticize H&M, and rarely BRF. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I’d be interested in the DNA results too, but confirming that the bodies are the boys doesn’t solve the real mystery: who ordered them dead? Now, if they’re not the boys, that would be interesting. Time Team is on Amazon Prime, by the way.

[treehugger]

I think perhaps the BRF is criticized less because they are quieter about their lives.  If you are constantly whining to the press and doing interviews on Oprah and complaining about your life on your podcast you put yourself in the spotlight.  The BRF is very quiet and discreet and doesn’t provide nearly as much fodder for discussion.

This does not excuse the issues with the monarchy.  But it is easier to forget about them

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, Teaistheway said:

Me....but I am British so probably don't count 🤣 History geek though and this is one mystery I would love to see solved

Me too and I am also hoping this goes ahead! 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’d be interested in the DNA results too, but confirming that the bodies are the boys doesn’t solve the real mystery: who ordered them dead? Now, if they’re not the boys, that would be interesting.

They could have died of typhoid fever or something, with no foul play involved, but youʻre probably right that weʻll never know. 

Regardless, I really hope they go ahead with this investigation.

ETA: This overview from the Tower of London website is pretty good. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by hoipolloi
Adding info