(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 51: An Unappealing Appeal

[Cam]

17 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

the thing is, they just looked really dated back then? In the early 90s when I was a kid, these big collars and blowsy dresses were really fashionable, plus that half-up long waved hair. In the 80s and 90s here in the UK the gold standard for 'smart' dresses was Laura Ashley - I don't know if that made it over the pond but really you'll see a similar style in any kids movie from the first half of the 90s. Two examples of Laura Ashley below:

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...so in the early 2000s I remember that the Duggars looked comical because they were so throwbacky, but they didn't look cultish, per se. They looked frozen in time in a really specific sort of way. The fashion of 10-15 years ago is always the most awkwardly painful to us in whatever our present moment is. I mean, I can understand that they favoured this look because it does specifically hark back to an imagined 'wholesome' past, but these kind of dresses must have been very very easy to find second hand back then too.

Maybe this kind of clothing was worn back in the day for church, picture day at school or a special function like a wedding or party. But not worn to do laundry, run the vacuum, cook, scrub toilets. Not to go get groceries. Not to run outside and play ball, ride bikes, jump rope. Not worn exclusively every day without any other choice or style of clothing.

Movies in the early 90s like Home Alone, The Parent Trap, My Girl. Not so much Laura Ashley from what I remember.

 

8 hours ago, Giraffe said:

To me it’s weird that someone other than the parents are cleaning the parent’s bedroom. As many problems as there were in my family of origin it was expected that my parent’s bedroom be treated as a space to only enter when invited after knocking. It wasn’t about there being “bad” things in their bedroom, it was that the bedroom was their private space and expected to be treated as such including that they were the only ones expected to clean it. 
 

This was similar to my parents’ style. They made their own bed everyday. We were not to touch the things on their dressers or get in their dresser drawers or closet. A large bookshelf was in the corner of their room and during the day we were certainly allowed to go in any time to search for something to read or use the encyclopedias. Us kids had Saturday chores but were never required to clean up my parents’ personal effects. 
 

Tanba, I agree, Duggar chore distribution seemed inappropriate. In the video, I notice several of the young girls lifting heavy cases of canned goods while the boys seem to take on a lot less, like one of them looks like he has a stack of tortilla packages in his hands. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Cam

[Meggo]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

Maybe this kind of clothing was worn back in the day for church, picture day at school or a special function like a wedding or party. But not worn to do laundry, run the vacuum, cook, scrub toilets. Not to go get groceries. Not to run outside and play ball, ride bikes, jump rope. Not worn exclusively every day without any other choice or style of clothing.

Movies in the early 90s like Home Alone, The Parent Trap, My Girl. Not so much Laura Ashley from what I remember.

 

This was similar to my parents’ style. They made their own bed everyday. We were not to touch the things on their dressers or get in their dresser drawers or closet. A large bookshelf was in the corner of their room and during the day we were certainly allowed to go in any time to search for something to read or use the encyclopedias. Us kids had Saturday chores but were never required to clean up my parents’ personal effects. 
 

Tanba, I agree, Duggar chore distribution seemed inappropriate. In the video, I notice several of the young girls lifting heavy cases of canned goods while the boys seem to take on a lot less, like one of them looks like he has a stack of tortilla packages in his hands. 

We never cleaned our parents room. We sometimes rooted around in drawers (but not always). 
Personally - I'd LOVE to have the bedroom be our private space - but I have a kid who crawls into bed most nights. I have booted his bum out of my room when he's come in with a FRIEND looking for the cat - dude - OUT OUT OUT with your friends. My space!

[Alisamer]

17 hours ago, Antimony said:

Good law. Low unintended impact. Addresses community support for children. Puts children near mandated reporters. Doesn't cause homelessness. 

I agree it's a good law. 

12 hours ago, Smee said:

 If you want to force sex-offender parents to take their little kids to the doctor regularly or send them to daycare, you’ve also gotta make daycare and doctor’s visits free…

Reason number 9 million for universal healthcare...

 

4 hours ago, Smee said:

My approach to household chores is shared mess = shared responsibility, and your mess = your responsibility. The kids have to keep their own rooms clean and I’ll ask them to load the dishwasher or wipe down benches or fold laundry, but my room is my responsibility.

My question is, if JB & Michelle’s room is Jana’s jurisdiction, what’s THEIR jurisdiction?

That seems reasonable to me. And I can also see asking a kid who was vacuuming or dusting to do the parents room while they were at it, even, especially if it's done in a "thanks for helping me" way not a "slave, go vacuum my floor" way. I hope that by JB and Michelle's room being Jana's jurisdiction that meant stuff like dusting, vacuuming, and taking care of the crib and baby stuff in the room. Not like picking up JB's undies off the floor. And especially not JB coming up to Michelle and going "hey HEY hey" and then winking at Jana as they slink off saying "Jana, make sure you change our sheets tomorrow!" (GROSS. But he seems potentially that slimy.)

JB and Michelle's jurisdiction was making more mouths to feed. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Jim Bob and Michelle’s jurisdiction was each other’s genitalia. You know he’s said that.

Spoiler

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Father Son Holy Goat

[patsymae]

On 4/29/2022 at 11:02 AM, Alisamer said:

I agree it's a good law. 

Reason number 9 million for universal healthcare...

 

That seems reasonable to me. And I can also see asking a kid who was vacuuming or dusting to do the parents room while they were at it, even, especially if it's done in a "thanks for helping me" way not a "slave, go vacuum my floor" way. I hope that by JB and Michelle's room being Jana's jurisdiction that meant stuff like dusting, vacuuming, and taking care of the crib and baby stuff in the room. Not like picking up JB's undies off the floor. And especially not JB coming up to Michelle and going "hey HEY hey" and then winking at Jana as they slink off saying "Jana, make sure you change our sheets tomorrow!" (GROSS. But he seems potentially that slimy.)

JB and Michelle's jurisdiction was making more mouths to feed. 

I don't know why this junk is stuck in my head but I remember an episode where for some reason they were filming in Jboob and Meesh's bedroom and Josie was walking around picking up dirty laundry from the floor. Jboob said it was her jurisdiction that week. She was really little, too.

[Dandruff]

A few weeks to go before Josh's sentencing and I wonder what's going through his head.  Has he developed a love for reading?  Does he miss and feel bad for Anna and the Ms?  Have his lawyers informed him of a plausible means to get him at least partially off the hook?

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, patsymae said:

I don't know why this junk is stuck in my head but I remember an episode where for some reason they were filming in Jboob and Meesh's bedroom and Josie was walking around picking up dirty laundry from the floor. Jboob said it was her jurisdiction that week. She was really little, too.

Bad that she was little, but I’m struck by the fact that Boob and Meesh throw their dirty clothes on the floor. 
  Years ago my brother-in-law’s wife asked me if my husband tossed his clothes on the floor when he changed.  They were brothers after all.  (He didn’t.) Her husband was pretty into that patriarchal nonsense and she too, but I’m glad that at least she thought this was disrespectful to her, the dutiful homemaker. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Bastet

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

5 hours ago, Dandruff said:

A few weeks to go before Josh's sentencing and I wonder what's going through his head.  Has he developed a love for reading?  Does he miss and feel bad for Anna and the Ms?  Have his lawyers informed him of a plausible means to get him at least partially off the hook?

I'd guess his attorneys have prepared him for what's likely to happen at sentencing, right down to the range of years he's likely to get. I can't imagine what the pest does all day.  He doesn't have access to a TV when he's in his cell to use as a distraction.  I'd read anything I could get my hands on, but somehow I can't see Josh doing much but eating sugary and carb loaded snacks and trying to chat up anyone who who comes within earshot of him.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

7 hours ago, Dandruff said:

A few weeks to go before Josh's sentencing and I wonder what's going through his head.  Has he developed a love for reading?  Does he miss and feel bad for Anna and the Ms?  Have his lawyers informed him of a plausible means to get him at least partially off the hook?

I think all of Josh’s time is probably spent feeling bad for Josh. 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think all of Josh’s time is probably spent feeling bad for Josh. 

And I'd guess replaying the moment when he asked the feds whether someone had downloaded csam, and wishing he could go back in time to stfu.

[Jana814]

I still think that Josh is surprised he got convicted. He probably thinks he’s not going to go to jail. 

[gustava]

2 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I still think that Josh is surprised he got convicted. He probably thinks he’s not going to go to jail. 

Then he's delusional, as he is currently in jail!!

[Knight of Ni]

He probably thinks he's either going to the get the lightest sentence or somehow his conviction will be over turned. He's probably imagining ways it could have gone differently and he would either be found not guilty or not caught at all. I can guarantee that he is NOT reflecting on the pain he caused his victims and his family. 

[nokidsmom]

14 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

He probably thinks he's either going to the get the lightest sentence or somehow his conviction will be over turned. He's probably imagining ways it could have gone differently and he would either be found not guilty or not caught at all. I can guarantee that he is NOT reflecting on the pain he caused his victims and his family. 

I suspect he's in major denial about what is happening to him just as Anna obviously is.    He might be hanging on to the idea that his conviction will be tossed out and I highly doubt that he's prepared to face whatever sentence he gets, even if his attorneys have tried to prepare him.  This is the guy who decided to roll the dice with a jury trial instead of taking a plea deal.  Which was his right but if he made that decision against his own legal counsel's advice then I would not be very confident that he would listen to any warnings about what to expect at sentencing.

Regarding any consideration for victims and family, it's clear that Joshley has never given that a thought.   It's all about what's been done to him as opposed to being consequences for some very bad choices he's made and causing people, some of which he purports to love, tremendous pain.  

 

[SassyPants]

Really, despite prison curtailing his illegal and amoral behaviors, I’m not sure his life is too different. Sure he is imprisoned; locked in, but he’s been living in JB prison for 34 years. Instead of having to occasionally help out at home, he’ll have to provide some sort of Emmanuel labor within the system, fed the same crappy, calorie laden food and alcohol restrictions. Instead of listening to Anna and an endless number of children yammer on, he’ll have the other prisoners droning on.

I think Josh can do 10 years of this on cruise control. He lived under JB and M’s roof for what, 20 years? He didn’t buy into any of their BS either. 

[nokidsmom]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Really, despite prison curtailing his illegal and amoral behaviors, I’m not sure his life is too different. Sure he is imprisoned; locked in, but he’s been living in JB prison for 34 years. Instead of having to occasionally help out at home, he’ll have to provide some sort of Emmanuel labor within the system, fed the same crappy, calorie laden food and alcohol restrictions. Instead of listening to Anna and an endless number of children yammer on, he’ll have the other prisoners droning on.

I think Josh can do 10 years of this on cruise control. He lived under JB and M’s roof for what, 20 years? He didn’t buy into any of their BS either. 

Agree that prison life might not be too different from the controlled life he had been living.   Certainly he faced a more controlled life regardless of the trial outcome.  Had he not not been convicted he would have gone back to the TTH which is its own type of prison.   And because he managed to still get in trouble in spite of controls that were in place while still being under his Dad's thumb, I can only imagine how seriously limited his life would be.  I mean he got in trouble while working in the car lot, a family business.  Can anyone at home trust him anywhere?  What could they do with him outside of just keeping him stuck at the family compound with a dwindling number of family as accountability partners having to tag along if he has to go out?  It could be argued that he might have greater freedom in prison.   

One thing, if he wasn't keen on having more kids, that problem sure is solved for him and he's got a good excuse now if he was looking for one.  

[EmCatlyn]

18 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I'd guess his attorneys have prepared him for what's likely to happen at sentencing, right down to the range of years he's likely to get. I can't imagine what the pest does all day.  He doesn't have access to a TV when he's in his cell to use as a distraction.  I'd read anything I could get my hands on, but somehow I can't see Josh doing much but eating sugary and carb loaded snacks and trying to chat up anyone who who comes within earshot of him.  

Maybe he plays solitaire a lot.  I know some people who play cards instead of reading.   

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I still think that Josh is surprised he got convicted. He probably thinks he’s not going to go to jail. 

Well, he is in jail.  He may have delusions that a miracle will happen and he won’t be sentenced to spend years in prison, but he must have noticed that he is in jail. 😉

I do agree that he was surprised that he got convicted, and he may have hopes that his sentence will be much shorter than it is.  (As opposed to us on FJ— no sentence will seem long enough.)

[imokit]

Josh is probably enjoying the lack of screaming children, the reduced moralising and god stuff from everyone around him.  He can wank without guilt, swear and talk about sex without guilt, and I bet there's a lot of adult porn floating around that jail for him to look at semi-openly.

But - no sex.  No joyfully available Anna.

 

I bet he still thinks he'll get off or the judge will give him minimum custody time, because he's the golden boy and has never had sensible consequences (only being sheltered from them or given disproportionate ones).

[myusername]

Josh is probably enjoying the lack of screaming children, the reduced moralising and god stuff from everyone around him.  He can wank without guilt, swear and talk about sex without guilt, and I bet there's a lot of adult porn floating around that jail for him to look at semi-openly.
But - no sex.  No joyfully available Anna.
 
I bet he still thinks he'll get off or the judge will give him minimum custody time, because he's the golden boy and has never had sensible consequences (only being sheltered from them or given disproportionate ones).

Oh..... There's sex. For sure.

Just not the kind he prefers.

[Cam]

3 hours ago, myusername said:

Oh..... There's sex. For sure.

Just not the kind he prefers.

I wanted to say it but figured I’d get scolded if I did. And anyway, you phrased it much better than I would have.

[SassyPants]

IDK…and I think since Josh is under his own umbrella (well, at least when he’s not incarcerated) and has shown he has aberrant behaviors, we can discuss him and sex. I don’t think we really know what he prefers. Maybe he doesn’t even know-

 

[myusername]

IDK…and I think since Josh is under his own umbrella (well, at least when he’s not incarcerated) and has shown he has aberrant behaviors, we can discuss him and sex. I don’t think we really know what he prefers. Maybe he doesn’t even know-
 

True. I stand corrected. [emoji4]

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:48 AM, Dandruff said:

And I'd guess replaying the moment when he asked the feds whether someone had downloaded csam, and wishing he could go back in time to stfu.

Would it have made a meaningful difference if he hadn’t said it? I thought it was the cherry on top that he did but the other evidence spoke for itself. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Would it have made a meaningful difference if he hadn’t said it? I thought it was the cherry on top that he did but the other evidence spoke for itself. 

Yeah, I don’t think it matters one way or the other. His conviction was based on all the accumulated federal evidence of those downloads.