Theobros, Patriarchs, Dominionists, Christofascists et al.

[hoipolloi]

6 minutes ago, Howl said:

After reading about SACR, I started wondering about guys who desperately want to join, but can't pass the threshold of wealth and influence. 

Same. Can't help thinking of the saying "It isn't a club unless someone can't join and it isn't a party unless someone isn't invited."

So 3rd grade. You wonder also if they have a secret handshake or something. 

[Howl]

Also intrigued that a patriarchal marriage is a non-negotiable prerequisite.  Hyphenated name is also a deal braker.   This puts them on the fringe.  What a bunch of raging a** hats.  I wonder if their extremism will attract dominant personalities that ultimately can't get along. 

[hoipolloi]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:13 AM, Howl said:

Membership in the SACR (Society for American Civic Renewal)  is by invitation only and you have to be

• male!  white! 
• rich, very very rich
• involved/influential in politics
• have competence, success and influence in your field/business
• a certain KIND of Christian (trinitarians, raise your hands! LDS, Jehovah's Witness et al. don't make the cut. Catholics, Orthodox Xtians OK)
• a patriarch 
• be ready to take over the US government

Looks like they or similar people have been buying up land in south-central Kentucky to establish WASP compounds. 

The company is called RidgeRunner and theyʻve got two subdivisions so far near Burkesville, KY:

Quote

 

RidgeRunner is building pioneer communities in the old American heartland. 

With the rise of remote work and rural broadband, and crowds of people looking to leave the city and return to a more sane lifestyle, an opportunity presents itself. There is an opportunity for people to build new types of communities built around shared values and the American way of life.

We are creating communities in Appalachia where people can gather and build toward a better future.

 

A guy named Joshua Abbotoy is behind this. Homeboy is a Harvard law grad but, at the moment, is suspended from practicing law in TX:

[Howl]

Quote

"Josh is a Managing Director of New Founding, where he directs strategic transactions working on the cutting [edge?] of the realigned economy and new ventures within it."

It's both an empty statement and a way to say he's deeply into crypto without saying he's deeply into crypto. 

Quote

"There is an opportunity for people to build new types of communities built around shared values ..."

Hmmmm.  Which shared values might those be? 

Quote

"...and the American way of life."

Don't even get me started.

[hoipolloi]

33 minutes ago, Howl said:

Hmmmm.  Which shared values might those be? 

Oh, just these shared values: 

Quote

Josh is also the Executive Director of American Reformer, an organization dedicated to reinvigorating American Protestants for contemporary challenges. [emphasis added]

 

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

It's both an empty statement and a way to say he's deeply into crypto without saying he's deeply into crypto. 

Hmmmm.  Which shared values might those be? 

Don't even get me started.

Crypto and guns. 

[Howl]

"Reinvigorating American Protestants"

a) Episcopalians need a jump start because they're nodding off in the pews 

or 

b) patriarses take over churches and government

Going back to "There is an opportunity for people to build new types of communities".   A few people will buy in and then the whole thing will flounder, go belly up followed by bankruptcy,  but Mr. Crypto will scurry off with enough money for that condo in Vegas or maybe a little beach cottage in the Bahamas. 

 

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

"Reinvigorating American Protestants"

a) Episcopalians need a jump start because they're nodding off in the pews 

or 

b) patriarses take over churches and government

Going back to "There is an opportunity for people to build new types of communities".   A few people will buy in and then the whole thing will flounder, go belly up followed by bankruptcy,  but Mr. Crypto will scurry off with enough money for that condo in Vegas or maybe a little beach cottage in the Bahamas. 

Voting for B myself.

Re: crypto. At the American Reformer Abbotoy describes himself as a "seasoned private equity lawyer by background." I rank private equity firms with hedge funds in terms of the evil they perpetrate. They should be outlawed. 

Youʻd think that anyone buying some of that KY land would execute due diligence and find out that Mr. Crypto's law license has been suspended in TX. Talk about red flags. Then again, I can't say that I give a damn about the likely buyers losing their shirts. Less money to go to MAGA causes. 

[Howl]

So this happened, and I can't quite...well, whatever.  

Apparently, Driscoll was brought back on eventually, or talked to someone about something and possibly it's all good now? 

Also Theo Bros re: the male stripper and screaming about context: But he was a SWORD SWOLLOWER

Edited April 15 by Howl

[clueliss]

Not Mark Driscoll being problematic (and getting booted from stage) 

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1779660848933560503?t=xUFsoLFEVrl2Nz75aenTYg&s=19

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

Not Mark Driscoll being problematic (and getting booted from stage) 

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1779660848933560503?t=xUFsoLFEVrl2Nz75aenTYg&s=19

I would have paid money to watch that circus. John Lindell is Assembly of God royalty.

[hoipolloi]

The always-thoughtful Rick Pidcock has an excellent article on this debacle:

Quote

 

Loud cheers and boos began to fill the arena as Driscoll walked off stage. Then suddenly, the Great Southern Bank Arena transformed into Kendomland: Land of the Free and the Men, as the Kens went to war, not against the Barbies anymore, but against the other Kens.

“Bring him back! Bring him back!” the men roared as Lindell hopped up onto the stage to respond.

“Mark was out of line!” Lindell barked amidst the thundering wrath. “If Mark wanted to say that, he should have said it to me. He didn’t. Matthew 18. If your brother offends you, go to him privately.”

“I talked to Mark for a half hour! There was not one word of that! He’s out of line! If he wants to say it, he can say it to me!”

And gazing up at it all, soaking it all in, was none other than the man who has dominated religious news headlines over the past month, megachurch pastor Josh Howerton.

 

I had wondered how Matthew 18 came into this. 

Lots of background on the "Stronger Men" conferences and this gem of a summary:

Quote

While Driscoll has been a regular speaker at the conference, it also has featured the likes of Louis Giglio of the Passion movement and Sen. Josh Hawley of the insurrection movement. [emphasis added]

🤣 🤣🤣

[Pammy]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

I had wondered how Matthew 18 came into this. 

Matthew 18 contains a teaching of Jesus on how to respond when a fellow believer personally sins against you. It's a fairly common sense set of escalation steps, beginning with a personal conversation one-on-one with the person who you believe has sinned against you.

It's often used problematically to shut down any and all forms of public criticism -- without regard for the fact that a thing can be critiqued without it having been a personal sin (one-against-another) or without it being a sin at all. It's an excellent excuse for people in power to keep their opponents alone and unsupported in any confrontation. It also lets them do what this guy has done: "It doesn't matter if the criticism is legitimate -- my accuser is worse than me because they did this in public instead of private."

I'm not one to criticize Jesus. I think a one-on-one conversation about a person-to-person sin between equals and community members is generally a good plan. Just because Jesus didn't break down any of the various cases where that kind of conversation serves to intimidate a victim and further empower powerful perpetrators -- doesn't mean that we can't temper Jesus' general instructions with some situation-specific common sense.

Christians really need to grasp that Jesus' instructions weren't spoken in the form of new laws to govern everyone's behaviour in every situation until the end of time. They were spoken as wisdom to the hearts and minds of intelligent followers. His guidance is very valuable -- but a little common sense modification is not disobedience, it's wisdom and obedience combined.

Edited April 15 by Pammy

[clueliss]

Don't mind me. I have to pick myself up off the floor again. Laughing in hysterics.  Because the Columbia, Missouri Tribune just posted an article about this on Facebook.

[hoipolloi]

@Pammy - thank you.

I knew enough about Matthew 18 to figure that Lindell was trying to shut Driscoll down but didn't understand the grounds on which Driscoll "violated" that scripture. It figures.

What a bunch of fucking assholes. Would love to think that this is a death knell for these annual shit parades but I doubt it. Theyʻll all kiss and make up - or whatever it is "stronger men" do in these situations.

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Pammy said:

Matthew 18 contains a teaching of Jesus on how to respond when a fellow believer personally sins against you. It's a fairly common sense set of escalation steps, beginning with a personal conversation one-on-one with the person who you believe has sinned against you.

It's often used problematically to shut down any and all forms of public criticism -- without regard for the fact that a thing can be critiqued without it having been a personal sin (one-against-another) or without it being a sin at all. It's an excellent excuse for people in power to keep their opponents alone and unsupported in any confrontation. It also lets them do what this guy has done: "It doesn't matter if the criticism is legitimate -- my accuser is worse than me because they did this in public instead of private."

I'm not one to criticize Jesus. I think a one-on-one conversation about a person-to-person sin between equals and community members is generally a good plan. Just because Jesus didn't break down any of the various cases where that kind of conversation serves to intimidate a victim and further empower powerful perpetrators -- doesn't mean that we can't temper Jesus' general instructions with some situation-specific common sense.

Christians really need to grasp that Jesus' instructions weren't spoken in the form of new laws to govern everyone's behaviour in every situation until the end of time. They were spoken as wisdom to the hearts and minds of intelligent followers. His guidance is very valuable -- but a little common sense modification is not disobedience, it's wisdom and obedience combined.

This is a beautiful explanation of Matthew 18 and how it can be weaponized.

IMO the common sense approach outlined by Jesus makes sense when it is practiced between peers. It gets creepy and dangerous when practiced top-down:  for example, a pastor calling out a teen girl 1:1 for immodest clothing. 

I find the use of Matthew 18 in this context hilarious. This is a conference where all the manly men try to out manly man each other. Sword swallower was apparently highly entertaining but then Driscoll got the crowd all fired up using the LGBTQ dog whistle. (He accused sword man of being a woman, essentially, since he used a pole as a prop.) So the audience gets all riled up and Lindell, control freak that he is, has to shut it down. And boom, Matthew 18 to the rescue. 

My take is that Lindell knew he couldn't manly man Driscoll, so he went the alternate route: using Matthew 18 to confront a fellow pastor, so to speak, but of course doing it publicly because Driscoll wasn't willing to listen privately. Which means Lindell himself was not following Matthew 18 in the very least but hey, it's not like any reasonable or sane theology is on the table at this point.

Total power play.

I am with @cluelisson this one, laughing hysterically.
 

[hoipolloi]

Someone on Twitter suggested that this was all a bunch of kabuki to keep the leghumpers off balance.

After all, you can only have so many tanks crushing cars, or girly men swallowing swords, before people get jaded & tune you out - nothing like inter-pastoral drama to wake them up again.

[noseybutt]

43 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Someone on Twitter suggested that this was all a bunch of kabuki to keep the leghumpers off balance.

After all, you can only have so many tanks crushing cars, or girly men swallowing swords, before people get jaded & tune you out - nothing like inter-pastoral drama to wake them up again.

That’s an interesting theory but I’m not sure I buy it. These dudes are hypersensitive to humiliation and not sure they would agree to any sort of theater that would subject themselves to that.

Lindell’s church pioneered over-the-top 4th of July extravaganzas back in the late 90s—I think the party petered out about 10 years ago. There was tons of theater with the “I Love America” celebrations, but never in a million years would Lindell portray himself as anything but the America-loving pastor.

Where he got twitchy with Driscoll is that Driscoll was accusing him, indirectly, of celebrating transgenderism.

I think James River church is in a bit of flux right now with his kids taking over some of the campuses, upcoming election (Assembly of God has opinions), and healing services that are trending more dramatic.

Lindell does not always read the room well. Google the Tim Carpenter story if you want giggles as to how he handled a missing junior pastor. 

 

[hoipolloi]

14 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

These dudes are hypersensitive to humiliation and not sure they would agree to any sort of theater that would subject themselves to that.

Good points. I am not very familiar with Lindell so you are likely correct. 

They're already advertising the 2025 event. 

[neuroticcat]

Driscoll's using it to promote his flop of a book on the "Jezebel spirit" - so I am betting it was a PR stunt. 
 

Imagine Driscoll submissively leaving the stage without pre-planning.

[noseybutt]

5 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Driscoll's using it to promote his flop of a book on the "Jezebel spirit" - so I am betting it was a PR stunt. 
 

Imagine Driscoll submissively leaving the stage without pre-planning.

Is this the New Days Old Demons book? It's hecka confusing because the title Jezebel Spirit was already taken by another author. 😂

From the Amazon description: This book reads like the book of Revelation meets a death metal band in a cage fight on Halloween.

Sounds like the sword swallower would fit right in.

 

[Antipatriarch]

Yeah the "Jezebel spirit" and Driscoll's claims from the Mars Hill days that "I see things" are definitely related; this incident is just the latest example. Driscoll has claimed that several instances of others' sexual immorality were revealed to him in visions (most notably including one about his wife, before they were married), and also he seems to read sex into situations where it isn't there. Personally I think this is an unhealthy fixation and he needs professional help.

[Bassett Lady]

13 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

Driscoll has claimed that several instances of others' sexual immorality were revealed to him in visions

I have a vision of a bumper crop of radishes, zucchinis, and heirloom tomatoes this year! I dreamt of fresh produce. 
 

Do you think Driscoll will want to interview me for a chapter in his next tome? “Veggie Tales from Beyond?”

 

 I mean, all the pollinators, the ripe succulent fruit just hanging on the vine, the obvious sexual tension of the vegetables just mocking him with their hyper masculinity! 

[Expectopatronus]

@Bassett Lady Only if you start singing in Bob or Larry’s voice. 

[Alisamer]

On 4/15/2024 at 8:51 AM, Howl said:

Also Theo Bros re: the male stripper and screaming about context: But he was a SWORD SWOLLOWER

I am apparently a dirty minded 14 year old. A "sword swallower" really? What swords are he swallowing, hmmmm? 

On 4/15/2024 at 3:11 PM, hoipolloi said:

Theyʻll all kiss and make up - or whatever it is "stronger men" do in these situations.

A private session with the "sword swallower" perhaps?

Sorry, I just can't with these dudes. 

Guys. You can be a manly man and still be gay, you know, if you are. I get a lot of conflicted sexuality vibes from a few of these guys.