Theobros, Patriarchs, Dominionists, Christofascists et al.

[clueliss]

I saw this last night in both Twitter and Threads and has to share.  
 

 

[Giraffe]

Jezemales. Omg I love that!

[FilleMondaine]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Jezemales. Omg I love that!

I was confused at first, because I made the word rhyme with ‘tamales’. Jajajaja!

in all seriousness, wonderful word!

[neuroticcat]

On 7/12/2023 at 2:42 PM, Columbia said:

In which Doug Wilson's fan boys throw complementarianism under the bus in favor of true patriarchalism.

I wouldn't touch either party with a 10 foot pole, but it is a pretty funny to see CBMW be smeared as liberal Marxists. Now to see how long it takes for CBMW to just give up, follow the money, and go full patriarchy. It's additionally amusing because anyone who actually read Jesus and John Wayne and took some of its concerns to heart could have seen this coming a mile away. It's too bad they just whined about it instead. 

Of course they are devouring their own. John Piper is is forged in the fires of marxism. I guess the idea is patriarchy is the True Way. 

And sadly I recognize the guy in the upper left's face because went Christian twitter viral this week for saying that men should not permit their women to go to Bible studies because they can't be trusted to learn the Bible on their own. And then he went on to tell this horrible story about his wife reading a book on infant baptism and he saw it and took it from her because he wasn't ready to decide for the family if they would believe that and he didn't want her to "outpace him." The clip seemed to be about maybe other theobros kind of trying to control what other men believed, because his point was that pastors don't have that kind of authority but fathers/husbands do. So treating his wife that way was exemplary AND then he went on to say that he has complete and total authority over four people in his life: when they pee, when they eat, etc - and it was his children. 

It was a disgusting clip and rightly caused even super conservative guys to call him out. 

It was a busy week for the theobros because some other guy talked about how men should take their wives to the church elders for discipline if they didn't agree to the book control. And then this theobro - do we have a thread on him? He was a TED talk social media build-your-brand for a hot minute and then a few years ago started his very own patriarch brand:

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by neuroticcat

[Howl]

5 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

he went on to say that he has complete and total authority over four people in his life: when they pee, when they eat, etc - and it was his children

This reflects back to the Kirk's elementary school in the Doug Wilson kingdom: based on reports from parents who got the hell out, they do physical discipline (i.e., beat children) but they also don't allow kids to go to the bathroom based on need, resulting in a higher number of urinary tract infections.   "When they eat" -- he's likely Ezzo centric. 

"He’s given them hormonal and biological capacity for greater discernment, rational thinking, risk-taking, and assertiveness..." 

Dale, dude!,  rational, discerning women are calling you out on your bullshit and you can't handle it. 

Also, please address the chronic problems that arise when risk-taking, and assertiveness (let's refer to this as dick brain for purposes of this discussion) are conflated with  discernment and rational thinking and then are used to justify things like   *checks notes* wars.  

I gotta say, reading the responses to Dale Partridge's idiocy make joining twitter worth it.  Ol' Dale got ratio'd very hard indeed. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

In which a theobro patriarse is absolutely mystified:

The comments are predictable and even Lori weighs in:

Edited July 16, 2023 by hoipolloi
Fixed typo

[neuroticcat]

18 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

In which a theobro patriarse is absolutely mystified:

The comments are predictable and even Lori weighs in:

Whatever could be the trend Michael?  Glad to hear there are women getting out, 

[Alisamer]

LOL, they are taught that if they are bare minimum decent and marry a woman and have kids with her, she'll never stray and they'll all be happily ever after. The women are taught that if they are submissive and compliant and pop out babies like Pez their husband will be great and they'll be happily ever after. 

Then the wife realizes she's checked off all the boxes and she's not happy. Her husband isn't that great, in fact he's barely tolerable. The kids aren't doing all that well either. And all advice she gets from the church is to keep doing the same thing, just more. More submissive, more obedient, pray more about it. And after all, she'll go to heaven when she dies.

And then some women decide their lives are so unhappy that even the promise of heaven doesn't make it worth staying. And the men involved are mystified.

[Columbia]

This guy also thinks that a pastor who protects pedophiles seven ways to Sunday is a "decent" man, so I'd wager his discernment in that area is not the most reliable.

[noseybutt]

I can’t stop laughing every time testosterone is elevated to godliness. Have they not checked the crime stats?

[Howl]

Julie Ann?  On urban dictionary?  I'm so here for this. 

From the Greg Bahnsen WIKI: "In 1975, after receiving ordination in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, he became an associate professor of Apologetics and Ethics at Reformed Theological Seminary (RTS) in Jackson, Mississippi... Bahnsen's four years at RTS were fraught with contention, centered around his particular version of theonomic postmillennialism...

...Greg Bahnsen's vocal advocacy of Christian Reconstructionism and theonomy was highly controversial during his lifetime, and a public disputation pertaining to theonomy led to his dismissal from the Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi."

This guy was staggeringly productive, but died young at 47 in 1995. 

The WIKI doesn't mention him being married,  so I noodled around a bit and found this item in an elegy from a former student:  "Before graduating Westmont College, Bahnsen married Cathie Wade in 1969 (they would eventually have three sons and an adopted Vietnamese daughter; they were divorced in 1990 after she deserted him)..."

Referencing @hoipolloi's post up thread: 

On 7/16/2023 at 4:36 PM, hoipolloi said:

In which a theobro patriarse is absolutely mystified:

Michael Foster referencing 40+-year-old-women who decide they've had enough of a very bad marriage -- Cathie Wade Bahnsen would fit into this exact time frame when she noped out ("deserted" the marriage), and left him for another church member, David Arnold. I can't find anything past that, but I'm sure it was utterly scandalous at the time. 

 

 

 

[Columbia]

I wasn't sure where would be the best place to put this, but Cait West, former stay-at-home-daughter and member of Kevin Swanson's church announced the release date of her book this week. It looks like it will be an interesting read, and hopefully will be part of an ever growing goad to eventually put pressure on people who need to answer for their teachings.
 

 

[Howl]

From TiaLevingsWriter today on Instagram today: 

"Dominionism teaches that Christians are meant to take over the world—that it’s their God-given, biblical mandate to bring every person, belief, lifestyle, and practice into submission to their way. When dominionists, which make up the majority influence in evangelicism and Christian fundamentalism, get into politics, they pass laws that protect their own religious freedoms and deny anyone who disagrees. They do this without empathy or humanitarian sway. They don’t care who hurts—the goal is to dominate, period. This is why they don’t care about democracy except to defeat it.

If you’ve run into Christian leadership that seems intolerant of anyone else’s viewpoint or experience, that dominionism at work. Book bans? Dominionism. On the outside, we call it fascism and authoritarianism, but they don’t understand those words. They believe God gave them the best way and it’s their job, duty, and right to bring society under their control. They believe they’re benevolent, and that society will heal if we do what they say.

I only know how to fight it on the individual level, which starts within my own heart. By loving people before ideas. By respecting others’ autonomy and right to the pursuit of happiness. By voting. Being an ally. Advocating for survivors. Dominionists have a lot of power in the US, but they are not the majority yet. You can still respect their seat at the table without allowing them to sit at the head."

I absolutely do not agree with the bolded text, everything else, yes.  Dominionists have been working steadily over decades to dominate US politics and eliminate democracy. They are THE clear and present danger and deserve no seat at the table.

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I only know how to fight it on the individual level, which starts within my own heart. By loving people before ideas. By respecting others’ autonomy and right to the pursuit of happiness. By voting. Being an ally. Advocating for survivors. Dominionists have a lot of power in the US, but they are not the majority yet. You can still respect their seat at the table without allowing them to sit at the head."

I absolutely do not agree with the bolded text, everything else, yes.  Dominionists have been working steadily over decades to dominate US politics and eliminate democracy. They are THE clear and present danger and deserve no seat at the table.

I think this mindset is the reason that separation of church and state is such a critically important aspect of government. It also seems to be one of the most ignored aspects of government in the US. 

I don't know how this sort of thing can be dealt with other than strict adherence to the constitution. Unfortunately the people in politics who are dominionists have little knowledge and less care about the constitution. And I think many of them don't have much care about the Bible or Christianity either. They just know that spouting Bible verses and opposing what the evangelicals oppose will win them votes, and getting in power and staying there is their main goal. It brings them money and fame, that they can spin into more money. And the richer you are, the less the laws affect you. 

I also don't know if there's a way to combat this at the voter level. Education helps, but is being demonized. Once someone is convinced that something is God's will, it's rarely possible to sway them - any opposition, education, explanations, etc. are just satan trying to prevent God's will from being done. They can explain away anything, once they've convinced themselves that their way is God's way. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

Unfortunately the people in politics who are dominionists have little knowledge and less care about the constitution.

They are revisionists re: the Constitution and the Framers..  They refuse to recognize how adamant many of the Framers were regarding the wall between church and state, so much so they wrote it into law.   And they use people like Barton, a pseudo historian, to write revisionist history. 

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

Once someone is convinced that something is God's will, it's rarely possible to sway them - any opposition, education, explanations, etc. are just satan trying to prevent God's will from being done.

Many believe that God put Trump in place to carry out a mandate to make the US a Christian nation. 

[Antipatriarch]

🤣 Jerry Falwell Jr. is continuing to press his lawsuit against Liberty U., trying to salvage some money or dignity or something. This part really made me laugh:

Quote

“The JERRY FALWELL brand does not stand for such abhorrent treatment, which is antithetical to the reputation by which it is known,” the complaint alleges.

Um, say there, Jer: I think there's only one person to blame for how the JERRY FALLWELL brand is currently known.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Antipatriarch said:

🤣 Jerry Falwell Jr. is continuing to press his lawsuit against Liberty U., trying to salvage some money or dignity or something.

What's also hilarious is that Jerry's filing engages in major what-aboutism:

Quote

Falwell Jr. also alleges the board overlooked sexual misconduct by former leaders, including an unnamed former president, only to turn on Falwell Jr. when his life fell apart.

ETA More dirty laundry here:

Quote

 

Falwell Jr. says that the Executive Committee held him to a different standard than they had held other “high-ranking officials of the University.” He claims that “one former University President was sued by a former Liberty employee for sexual harrassment, and Liberty retained him in that position notwithstanding that a payment had to be made to that employee as a result.” Who is this “former president?” It can only be Jerry Falwell Sr, Jerry Falwell Jr., or interim president Jerry Prevo. Correct? Am I missing something here?

Falwell Jr. says that Ed Hindson, the former Dean of Liberty’s School of Divinity, had an extramarital affair “during his time at Liberty.” (Hindson was the co-author–with Jerry Falwell Sr. and Ed Dobson–of the 1986 book The Fundamentalist Phenomenon: The Resurgence of Conservative Christianity. Ron Godwin, a former provost at Liberty, also had an extramarital affair. Falwell Jr. adds that “a current member of the Executive Committee has admitted to previously having more than one affair.” All of these men stayed in their posts.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:36 AM, Alisamer said:

I don't know how this sort of thing can be dealt with other than strict adherence to the constitution. Unfortunately the people in politics who are dominionists have little knowledge and less care about the constitution.

Some of these people want to rewrite the constitution via constitutional convention.  It hasn't been much discussed more recently because everything has been eclipsed by Trump & MAGA, but you can be sure a totally different constitution is envisioned by dominionists and they have a strategy to bring it about. 

[Columbia]

Not linking to his Twitter because this guy's a creep.



This guy is probably one of Doug Wilson's most appropriately named satellites. He runs a podcast called "Hard Men," so all the jokes write themselves. But he's also part of a number of Doug Wilson acolytes who seem very determined to bring back the stay-at-home-daughter paradigm with an even heavier hand and a lot less flowery language than was ever seen in a VF father-daughter retreat.

I know there are a number of former SAHDs talking about their experiences, but I wish the biggest ringleaders of the movement would start talking: Jasmine Baucham (not that they'd care to hear a Black woman, but still) the Botkin sisters, Kelly Brown. And more than just "we went too far" à la A-S & E. The hard manly men wouldn't listen, but it might help families who are on the fence, and it also might help daughters caught in unsafe environments know that this has been tried before and found wanting.

[Howl]

I saw that post being discussed yesterday. 

Incredibly creepy Eric Conn telegraphs a weird and very unhealthy obsession with young women, sex and mattresses. 

Red flag alert level?   High! 

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

...I wish the biggest ringleaders of the movement would start talking: Jasmine Baucham (not that they'd care to hear a Black woman, but still) the Botkin sisters, Kelly Brown. And more than just "we went too far" à la A-S & E.

I don't think they ever will.  Kelly Brown Ziegler is completely shielded on social media, but probably still popping out babies.  A photo of her current husband (Robert Ziegler)  oozed creepy guy -- a never married 38-year-old.  I suspect it wasn't a love match, but what do I know? 

I don't think we'll ever see a thoughtful accounting from any of these people while the  father patriarchs are still alive because the message to not betray the patriarch is very strong and there is still a lot of inter-generational family enmeshment, i.e., Botkins. 

Some of the mothers of various SAHD's have had a major course correction, but crickets on what brought it about.   

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

I don't think we'll ever see a thoughtful accounting from any of these people while the  father patriarchs are still alive because the message to not betray the patriarch is very strong and there is still a lot of inter-generational family enmeshment, i.e., Botkins. 

I agree. Jasmine has actually said & written quite a bit that repudiates her white fundie SAHD past but understandably is not going to denounce her father. It seems very unlikely that Voddie will ever apologize and acknowledge the significant harm he has perpetrated even though it appears that he does not (or perhaps isn't allowed to) treat his grandchildren in the abusive manner he tells others to follow in raising their children.

The Botkins have basically said nothing and Kelly has long since been sucked back into the NCFIC borg after her marriage to Peter broke up. I don't look for either the Botkins or Kelly to say anything until their fathers are off the fundie stage one way or another. As for Geoff or Scottie apologizing for and acknowledging the harm they've done - fat chance. Between their egos and their wallets, there is no way they will give up the patriarse grift. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by hoipolloi

[hoipolloi]

Interviews with a number of women harmed by Voddie Baucham's abusive  theology:

Quote

Katherine Mitchell: I think the most important thing to know about this man is that he is using his notoriety to sell books, sermons, and build his brand. It’s a form of grifting. Then, he preaches that women are property and young children are ultimately evil and manipulative. He refers to children as “vipers in diapers” and advocates frequent, sadistic child abuse as vitally necessary for their salvation. He rose to “fame” by partnering with Doug Wilson and Doug Phillips (the former being exposed as an enabler of sexual abuse and the latter as a perpetrator of it). His other doctrines were considered heresy when they were first espoused by Rushdoony as “Christian Reconstructionism.”

 

[Columbia]

The good old Southern Baptist Convention is back at it. They filed a brief to keep the Kentucky Supreme Court from extending statute of limitations on prosecuting child sexual assault so they can cover their own asses and not be prosecuted for a similar case in Kentucky.

Spoiler

The worst part of it is, the trial they filed the brief for isn't even an SBC abuse case. They're trying to tie up a case that's completely unrelated to any of theirs.

Spoiler

 

[Howl]

Jenny Cohn is reporting on the grifting machine otherwise known as the Awake Church in San Diego. 

From Left Coast Right Watch, Feb. 2023:  PREACHING FASCISM: INSIDE SAN DIEGO’S AWAKEN MEGACHURCH

Welcome to a mashup of christofascism, culture grievance, prosperity gospel and militant Christian Nationalism, now attacking school boards! 

The pastor, Jurgen Matthesius, references Brian Houston (Hillsong) and Phil Pringle (C3) as his mentors, two guys absolutely riddled with corruption and controversy. 

Matthesius and his wife Leanne run Awake.  Jurgen met Leanne when she was 16 and he was a youth minister. They married a year later when she was 17 and he was 23.  In reality, it is more likely she was 15 when they married.  

[Coconut Flan]

They have several SD campuses and also in Salt Lake and Boise.  I've driven past one of their locations, but never had any curiosity about them or seen anything in the news.

I think their main building used to be a craft supply warehouse.    

Edited November 11, 2023 by Coconut Flan