Jana Duggar 15: Paying her court fine on Duggar time

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Even if she deposits into an account with her name on it, she can then transfer it almost anywhere or write a check to someone else.  

The money goes to her. She can do whatever she wants with it after that. But JB isn't getting the money, unless SHE gives it to HIM. The bank cuts the check to Jana, or does a direct deposit to Jana.

2 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

the cheque maybe in her name but does the account she deposits in have to be too?

 

Why is everyone so anxious for JB to have Jana's money? Yes, of course, she can deposit her check into JB's account, but why would she?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jackie3

[rosamundi]

4 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Why is everyone so anxious for JB to have Jana's money? Yes, of course, she can deposit her check into JB's account, but why would she?

I don't think anyone is anxious for JB to have Jana's money, but they suspect it will end up with him anyway. She has been raised all her life to obey her "headship", and as an unmarried fundy woman living at home, her headship is JB. If he told her to transfer the money to him, she probably would.

[Smee]

Financial abuse is a well known tactic in authoritarian lifestyles and cults. The law says it’s her money, but realistically odds are high that she isn’t keeping it. She will give it to him because she has been subject to coercive control her whole life and all he has to do is tell her to transfer it and she’ll accept whatever reason he gives.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

20 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Was this before or after Josh’s trial and conviction?

Before and after! But Michelle seemed to have issues while on television. She seemed dazed, confused and "out of it".  Then she is rumored to have COVID, I think in 2020, but again that is not definite. The COVID stuff is a very plausible rumor.  

[SassyPants]

Just a thought about Michelle…so she claims that the miscarriage of Caleb was the catalyst for their turn to Gothard and his tenets, including no BC. Yet when Josh was first reported to have started molesting his sisters In 2002, there was no major change in course for the family? So seemingly when JB and M were most affected by an untoward event, they elected to make major lifestyle changes, yet when their kids were most affected, no such introspection? 2001-2002 would have been very chaotic times in Duggarville. Lots of young little boys, 14 kids in a 3 BR home, trying unsuccessfully to build the TTH, and voila, Josh is caught acting out. Why didn’t they reevaluate then? 

[Jackie3]

9 hours ago, Smee said:

Financial abuse is a well known tactic in authoritarian lifestyles and cults. The law says it’s her money, but realistically odds are high that she isn’t keeping it. She will give it to him because she has been subject to coercive control her whole life and all he has to do is tell her to transfer it and she’ll accept whatever reason he gives.

If I had to guess, I don't think JB would say, "Give me that money." I do think he might say,

"You should be paying room and board"

"I lent you the money for that investment, and btw, I charged a 25% interest rate"

"Now that you have some money, you won't be needing the allowance I give you" (this last one isn't a terrible thing to say to a 30-year old)

"You should be paying more of your expenses"

I understand that Jana has been raised in this abusive, patriarchial cult for her entire life, and that it's really hard to change your mindset.  However, I also know that she is an adult woman, healthy, no kids, with money, and access to the internet. She's ahead of a lot of women who find a way out. I hope she does one day.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jackie3

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Just a thought about Michelle…so she claims that the miscarriage of Caleb was the catalyst for their turn to Gothard and his tenets, including no BC. Yet when Josh was first reported to have started molesting his sisters In 2002, there was no major change in course for the family? So seemingly when JB and M were most affected by an untoward event, they elected to make major lifestyle changes, yet when their kids were most affected, no such introspection? 2001-2002 would have been very chaotic times in Duggarville. Lots of young little boys, 14 kids in a 3 BR home, trying unsuccessfully to build the TTH, and voila, Josh is caught acting out. Why didn’t they reevaluate then? 

Or during the infamous laundry room break down?

I think the lack of reevaluation is because Jim Bob and Michelle’s egos were too involved. Their way couldn’t possibly be wrong so instead they ignore the situation since if there’s nothing to challenge their ego there’s no problem.

[socalrules]

I highly doubt it was Jana’s money to begin with or even her investment idea. It’s more likely that Jim Bob needed to use someone else’s name than his own for tax purposes or some scheme. How would Jana have enough money to buy property? We know from Jill that the kids were never paid money from the show so why would Jana suddenly have a large sum of money? Jim Bob isn’t known to be generous that way and I don’t think Jana is blackmailing him or anything. There is no reason to believe Jana is some type of savvy businesswoman who accumulated this on her own. 

[rosamundi]

16 minutes ago, socalrules said:

It’s more likely that Jim Bob needed to use someone else’s name than his own for tax purposes or some scheme.

Yes, but legally, once it's in her name, it's her asset.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Just a thought about Michelle…so she claims that the miscarriage of Caleb was the catalyst for their turn to Gothard and his tenets, including no BC. Yet when Josh was first reported to have started molesting his sisters In 2002, there was no major change in course for the family? So seemingly when JB and M were most affected by an untoward event, they elected to make major lifestyle changes, yet when their kids were most affected, no such introspection? 2001-2002 would have been very chaotic times in Duggarville. Lots of young little boys, 14 kids in a 3 BR home, trying unsuccessfully to build the TTH, and voila, Josh is caught acting out. Why didn’t they reevaluate then? 

The major change in course was being in TV. They got the big house finished, putting considerable distance between Josh and the girls. Michelle and JB may have hoped that their fame whore son would have a little more awareness of the consequences of his actions. 

[Cults-r-us]

23 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The major change in course was being in TV. They got the big house finished, putting considerable distance between Josh and the girls. Michelle and JB may have hoped that their fame whore son would have a little more awareness of the consequences of his actions. 

And to heighten his awareness, they shaved his head, made him publicly confess in church, put him in solitary and sentenced him to hard work. All of which might have caught a person's attention and at least reinforced the need for increased sneakiness (didn't happen). So the Duggars felt like they dealt with Josh's transgressions and that he was repentant. Sadly, none of that got to the heart of the matter of why their son was acting out.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

And to heighten his awareness, they shaved his head, made him publicly confess in church, put him in solitary and sentenced him to hard work. All of which might have caught a person's attention and at least reinforced the need for increased sneakiness (didn't happen). So the Duggars felt like they dealt with Josh's transgressions and that he was repentant. Sadly, none of that got to the heart of the matter of why their son was acting out.

By making him publicly confess to molesting his sisters isn’t he also publicly outing his victims? 

[livinginthelight]

17 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

And to heighten his awareness, they shaved his head, made him publicly confess in church, put him in solitary and sentenced him to hard work. All of which might have caught a person's attention and at least reinforced the need for increased sneakiness (didn't happen). So the Duggars felt like they dealt with Josh's transgressions and that he was repentant. Sadly, none of that got to the heart of the matter of why their son was acting out.

What did he actually confess to? I'm not certain but I doubt it was to molestation. Maybe the total effect of the "confession" was to teach him that it's okay to downplay details and participate in a coverup while ostensibly being "godly.'

[Smee]

14 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

What did he actually confess to? I'm not certain but I doubt it was to molestation. Maybe the total effect of the "confession" was to teach him that it's okay to downplay details and participate in a coverup while ostensibly being "godly.'

Yes, I expect it was to “being inappropriate with girls and struggling with sexual temptation” or something similarly vague.

Apparently men would regularly stand up the front and confess to “struggling with anger” and they’d all lay hands and pray and ignore how the message between the lines was that wives and children were being used as punching bags.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Smee

[Melissa1977]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:17 AM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

By making him publicly confess to molesting his sisters isn’t he also publicly outing his victims? 

I doubt the confession was that clear. I bet it was a broad statement and only a few people knew the truth. I also doubt Kellers knew everything before the wedding.

On 4/12/2022 at 3:17 PM, SassyPants said:

2001-2002 would have been very chaotic times in Duggarville. Lots of young little boys, 14 kids in a 3 BR home, trying unsuccessfully to build the TTH, and voila, Josh is caught acting out. Why didn’t they reevaluate then?

They met TLC then. It was their chance to earn money, to build a big house, to feed JB ego... So they need to keep having children, which at that point was no problem for them, because the older girls were trained sistermoms. Well, it was a huge problem for Michelle's health (no woman can have all those kids without consequences), but king JB wanted it, so....

[Cam]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

 

They met TLC then. It was their chance to earn money, to build a big house, to feed JB ego... So they need to keep having children, which at that point was no problem for them, because the older girls were trained sistermoms. Well, it was a huge problem for Michelle's health (no woman can have all those kids without consequences), but king JB wanted it, so....

For me, this is where the problem with JB and Michelle crystalizes. They allowed themselves and their fundamentalist lifestyle to be framed by TLC so that by their appearance, they looked pure as the driven snow. The message seemed to be that following “the word of God” to this extreme was the way to a much easier and blissful life than one would otherwise have. It was the “holier than thou” mentality that their way was better than all others, in fact, the only right way to live. 
 

Yet the show started after the molestations. It wasn’t until the truth came out years later that JB publicly tells Meghyan Kelly this sort of thing is common in the fundie lifestyle! Wait. What? He never happened to bring that subject matter up all those seasons of X # of KAC. Suddenly the carefully constructed IBLP fascade was cracking and crumbling with revelations that their perfect patriarchal religious lifestyle was not so perfect. 
 

Anyway, that was my perception of it.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Cam

[Mama Mia]

9 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I doubt the confession was that clear. I bet it was a broad statement and only a few people knew the truth. I also doubt Kellers knew everything before the wedding.

They met TLC then. It was their chance to earn money, to build a big house, to feed JB ego... So they need to keep having children, which at that point was no problem for them, because the older girls were trained sistermoms. Well, it was a huge problem for Michelle's health (no woman can have all those kids without consequences), but king JB wanted it, so....

I’ve always thought their going with TLC when they KNEW they had this gigantic secret  hanging over their heads was just bizarre - but now I kind of wonder if they were looking at it as a way to 1- have a new start, with more space, and 2- keep their newly reformed first born on the straight and narrow. All those cameras, all the hype, all the outside eyes. Maybe they genuinely thought it would reinforce his (supposed/temporary) turn around? They did all seem really angry about the Ashley Madison thing, which is so minor in comparison - it makes me think they genuinely thought he had worked through/prayed away his deviancy, had more or less built up some trust, and were just beyond pissed that he was lying. 
 

 

[zee_four]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:53 AM, Mama Mia said:

I’ve always thought their going with TLC when they KNEW they had this gigantic secret  hanging over their heads was just bizarre - but now I kind of wonder if they were looking at it as a way to 1- have a new start, with more space, and 2- keep their newly reformed first born on the straight and narrow. All those cameras, all the hype, all the outside eyes. Maybe they genuinely thought it would reinforce his (supposed/temporary) turn around? They did all seem really angry about the Ashley Madison thing, which is so minor in comparison - it makes me think they genuinely thought he had worked through/prayed away his deviancy, had more or less built up some trust, and were just beyond pissed that he was lying. 
 

 

I've always thought it was just arrogance, especially on JBs part. After all how many white conservative Christian men have gotten away, or at least thought they have, with sexual harassment, assault and/or other impropriety? Look at the way he reacted during Smuggar's trial, he honestly was affronted by being questioned, called out and not believed.

Men with authority issues flock to fundamentalism as true believers, from reading between the lines about his upbringing JB was enabled by his mother who thought he was a golden child. Then when his first crush on the "attractive, out of his league cheerleader" M was as a teenager wound up in a patriarchal marriage, I'm sure that only bolstered his ill deserved ego. It didn't matter it was because of M's age, naivity and family situation more than any prowess on his behalf was inconsequential in his mind.

He pulled off that "awww shucks" "man of God" BS for decades, being elected to office with no qualifications and was still seem as a defender of family values despite never showing up except to vote against reproductive rights, and had been wheeling and dealing as a bit of a slumlord around NWA for decades when Discovery came a calling. 

This was also back before there started to be a massive reckoning and beginning of the long process of accountability against countless powerful (in various capacities even if it is in just a podunk small town or cult) white, often Christian, men. Toss in his greed and griffing affinity and I'm sure JB laughed all the way to the bank for years up until the scandal first came out. His actions after, the audacity to step right back into CO and then running again for office show his continued arrogance even in situations that the majority of the most over confident would bow out from public life because of.

Though I won't lie, it would be quite something to have the self confidence of a below average white conservative American man....

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:38 AM, zee_four said:

Though I won't lie, it would be quite something to have the self confidence of a below average white conservative American man....

I always think of this when I apply for jobs or go to interviews. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:53 PM, Mama Mia said:

I’ve always thought their going with TLC when they KNEW they had this gigantic secret  hanging over their heads was just bizarre - but now I kind of wonder if they were looking at it as a way to 1- have a new start, with more space, and 2- keep their newly reformed first born on the straight and narrow. All those cameras, all the hype, all the outside eyes. Maybe they genuinely thought it would reinforce his (supposed/temporary) turn around? They did all seem really angry about the Ashley Madison thing, which is so minor in comparison - it makes me think they genuinely thought he had worked through/prayed away his deviancy, had more or less built up some trust, and were just beyond pissed that he was lying. 
 

 

Things were pretty different back then. When they started doing the specials, they may have thought they would just be a few specials and that’s it. Plus social media was in its infancy. They likely didn’t think things would come out. And they didn’t for years. As the years went by, they might have become more confident that things would never come out.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Things were pretty different back then. When they started doing the specials, they may have thought they would just be a few specials and that’s it. Plus social media was in its infancy. They likely didn’t think things would come out. And they didn’t for years. As the years went by, they might have become more confident that things would never come out.

Or if they did come out it wouldn’t matter, after all they were the DUGGARS. 

[Sullie06]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:38 AM, zee_four said:

I've always thought it was just arrogance, especially on JBs part. After all how many white conservative Christian men have gotten away, or at least thought they have, with sexual harassment, assault and/or other impropriety? Look at the way he reacted during Smuggar's trial, he honestly was affronted by being questioned, called out and not believed.

Men with authority issues flock to fundamentalism as true believers, from reading between the lines about his upbringing JB was enabled by his mother who thought he was a golden child. Then when his first crush on the "attractive, out of his league cheerleader" M was as a teenager wound up in a patriarchal marriage, I'm sure that only bolstered his ill deserved ego. It didn't matter it was because of M's age, naivity and family situation more than any prowess on his behalf was inconsequential in his 

I think about this a lot actually. I’ve always felt like M could have been and would have been so much more in life than just a human brood mare. 
I think M is a lot smarter and adjusted than JB but because of everything you listed above her wagon was hooked to his horse and she went along for the ride. It’s always seemed to me that behind the scenes, she’s an active participant in the “family brand”. I just feel in a different life, she would have chosen a very different path. 

[neuroticcat]

I think unless Jana is out of the cult there’s no question that it is or isn’t “her” money. It’s Duggar money. She is part of the Duggar family. She is not independent, has never been treated as such or really lived in that way, and in fact As far as we know still subscribes to teachings that say she must be under some form of male headship - as an unmarried woman this is her father.

Also, as with all cults, financial independence equals freedom. Sure, the check is cut in her name and she could legally take it and leave but she won’t and likely would be think of it. That would be deceptive, rebellious, feminist, or against Gods will without permission from proper headship. Remember: if she’s truly in the cult it’s not just that she believes JB wants this for her…she believes it’s Gods will. So until she is ready to deconstruct, I’m guessing everything is done to obey her father. 

I just don’t think there would be any question of her having independent means, bank account, etc. I’d bet she gets an allowance/stipend of some kind for her projects. 

[Cults-r-us]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:12 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Or if they did come out it wouldn’t matter, after all they were the DUGGARS. 

I don't think it hung over their head because they thought they had dealt with it. It was over for them, so they thought it was over for everybody else.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

I don't think it hung over their head because they thought they had dealt with it. It was over for them, so they thought it was over for everybody else.

Yep, and Jinger starts sobbing during a presentation because she did something very wrong as a child, but nothing to see here folks, it’s over. 

Not snarking you, just the idiot parents who decided everything was all better.