Jana Duggar 15: Paying her court fine on Duggar time

[SassyPants]

She probably has a joint account with JB. Maybe it was started when she was a minor. No matter the circumstances, I absolutely believe that where money is concerned, JB is a control freak and IS skirting the law. I will be less shocked when JB is arrested for financial malfeasance than I was when Josh was arrested for CSA-

[Alisamer]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:56 PM, neuroticcat said:

I just don’t think there would be any question of her having independent means, bank account, etc. I’d bet she gets an allowance/stipend of some kind for her projects. 

Yeah I was kind of boggled by the idea she might have her own bank account. I think chances of that are slim, and if she does have one it's likely either a small account with a debit card that her allowance from JB gets put into monthly, and/or maybe a savings account. Likely earmarked for her eventual wedding.

Like I'd love for her to take that money from the sale of the building and run just as much as anyone. But she's female and unmarried and under JB's "umbrella" still, which means he is the boss of her. Legally, she's free to do whatever the heck she wants. But even if she knows that, psychologically and emotionally she's not free at all. She probably only saw that check long enough to sign it over to JB, and the building was only in her name to begin with so it'd be on her taxes, not dad's. 

She's clearly been given some small freedoms over time, like being allowed to wear pants as the other girls started to transition into a more modern look. But the big stuff? If she leaves the family home without dad's permission, she is outside his umbrella of protection. Open for attack by satan and the world. She might start liking music that's not explicitly Christian, and eventuallly end up even lower than Josh, it's a slippery slope from having your own apartment to sleeping around indiscriminately, you know. 

Disobedient children go to hell. You are a child until you are married and transfered to your husband's authority. That's what she has been taught. 

Honestly we only know what the Duggars let us see. We get some between the lines clues, we get some info from disaffected Derrick here and there, we know from the facts of Josh's crimes that things are not the pure as driven snow uber-Christian way the Duggars want us to think things are. But we get to see what they want us to see, when Jana is concerned especially. The truth is vague, with the Duggars. 

But I think no matter how much money she "makes" from selling off a building she "owns", she's financially (and in all ways) dependent on JimBob, still. 

[SassyPants]

I also think it’s more logical to assume, because that’s all we are doing here is assuming, that what the Duggars  say (repeatedly) is closer to the truth than some fantasy that we might make up based on OUR OWN experiences. Why would anyone think that Jana has her own property and tens of thousands of dollars based on a real estate transaction? If Jana was making money and selling properties, why would she, a 32 YO old woman, be living at home? Or need a chaperone to visit her sister? If she is savvy enough to buy and sell real estate, and has access to tens of thousands of dollars, why hasn’t she started her own life, beginning with telling her parents that she is capable of traveling to Vegas, alone?

 

Nope, it’s more likely that she has no such ability ($$$$) to make these types of decisions; is still attached to the TTH financial umbilical cord!

 

ETA- for those who believe that Jana owned and sold property and has retained the proceeds, do you really believe that Jana chooses to have a 20 YO brother or nearing 60 YO father chaperone? I could see how she might like living at home, but why would a 32 YO, financially independent woman agree to be treated like a minor? Why wouldn’t she prefer to travel with Laura? Couldn’t Laura be a chaperone/ accountability partner? I can’t see how or why any neurotypical 32  YO would willing accept the need for a chaperone, ever. A travel companion, sure, but a daddy mandated, little brother chaperone, no.

Edited April 22, 2022 by SassyPants

[SassyPants]

Excuse me for spamming this thread, but this topic fascinates me, likely because I have kids who are 34 and 31. It is interesting to me that the 2 oldest, 2nd generation Duggars seem to be the biggest outliers in the group. I’m just wondering how much JB’s pathological practices (yes, I believe his ways are totally destructive) affected these 2 as the oldest kids in the group. How much pressure was put on them to act and present in a certain way? How much of the adult burden did each of them need to shoulder as the crew grew and grew? 

And I notice the only married, female Duggar who has not made any steps away from the Daddy approved lifestyle is Jessa. Jinger, Jill and Joy are likely never going to be following the TTH rules ever again. Jana is clearly not going to marry and pop out kid after kid while eating TTC and wearing used flip flops. JB’s only true hope at the moment are Kendra and Joe. 

I know Jeremy presents as an entitled, controlling AH, but I’m sure compared to life at Chez Jim Bob, Jinger’s life is diamonds in her mind. Sure, Jeremy’s antics will likely get old over time, but he’s still likely better than JB. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by SassyPants

[SassyPants]

Excuse me for spamming this thread, but this topic fascinates me, likely because I have kids who are 34 and 31. It is interesting to me that the 2nd generation Duggars seem to be the biggest outliers in the group. I’m just wondering how much JB’s pathological practices (yes, I believe his ways are totally destructive) affected these 2 as the oldest kids in the group. How much pressure was put on them to act and present in a certain way? How much of the adult burden did each of them need to shoulder as the crew grew and grew? 

And I notice the only married, female Duggar who has not made any steps away from the Daddy approved lifestyle is Jessa. Jinger, Jill and Joy are likely never going to be following the TTH rules ever again. Jana is clearly not going to marry and pop out kid after kid while eating TTC and wearing used flip flops. JB’s only true hope at the moment are Kendra and Joe. 

I know Jeremy presents as an entitled, controlling AH, but I’m sure compared to life at Chez Jim Bob, Jinger’s life is diamonds in her mind. Sure, Jeremy’s antics will likely get old over time, but he’s still likely better than JB. 

 

Also,I would love for Jana to explain how it was OK for JB to rob her of her childhood by relying or her to be a second mother to his kids, and is now robbing her of an independent, unmarried adult life. How could she have been old enough to adult as a child, but not old enough to adult as an adult? Explain, Jana and without using scripture, but by using logic.

I also wonder how much of Josh’s acting out is his pathological, passive aggressive behavior aimed at his dad.

[SassyPants]

Also, since the kids are no longer an easy conduit for cash flowing into JB’s accounts, how much longer will House of JB be able, or better yet willing, to fund the whole group? And if he doesn’t fund it all, how many of those blessing will continue to toe the line? 

[Smee]

It will never not amaze that Jana is one year younger than me and living the life she is living. I’m a divorced PhD student with 3 kids in public school so she probably doesn’t want my life and thinks I’m headed for hell, but the idea that she has just… never had her own income, never studied, never kissed someone, never looked at her bank account to decide whether to splurge for takeout because she can’t be bothered to cook, never been in a room by herself with a boy she is not related to, never listened and comforted someone going through a break up, never read a book written by a feminist. And yet rewind fifteen years or so and I was the “childlike” one who had never got up in the night to feed a baby, changed a diaper without being paid, or taught second grade maths. It’s all just wild to me.

So of course it’s not going to occur to her to take the money and run, she wouldn’t even know where to start. Well done Gothard, I guess.

[SassyPants]

21 minutes ago, Smee said:

It will never not amaze that Jana is one year younger than me and living the life she is living. I’m a divorced PhD student with 3 kids in public school so she probably doesn’t want my life and thinks I’m headed for hell, but the idea that she has just… never had her own income, never studied, never kissed someone, never looked at her bank account to decide whether to splurge for takeout because she can’t be bothered to cook, never been in a room by herself with a boy she is not related to, never listened and comforted someone going through a break up, never read a book written by a feminist. And yet rewind fifteen years or so and I was the “childlike” one who had never got up in the night to feed a baby, changed a diaper without being paid, or taught second grade maths. It’s all just wild to me.

So of course it’s not going to occur to her to take the money and run, she wouldn’t even know where to start. Well done Gothard, I guess.

It truly is mind boggling, isn’t it? What chaps my backside is that JB/M didnt follow their own parents wishes, so why should any of their married kids[or even anyone over the legal age of consent] kowtow to JB’s wishes? Such BS

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

It truly is mind boggling, isn’t it? What chaps my backside is that JB/M didnt follow their own parents wishes, so why should any of their married kids[or even anyone over the legal age of consent] kowtow to JB’s wishes? Such BS

Valid point.

 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

2 hours ago, Smee said:

I’m a divorced PhD student

Does that mean your divorce is final?  Congratulations!  It sounded like such an ordeal, it must feel so freeing.

[patsymae]

Well we never know what goes on behind the scenes or what they think, but I suspect Jana is living exactly the life she wants. 
As is/was Anna until this little glitch. 

[Idlewild]

They’ve all tried to soften their images a little- from the skirts only, very limited access to the internet, no TV, so SM accounts for unmarried adults- all the adult daughters wear jeans, they all watch TV, several single ones have Instagram accounts and they all seem to wear apple watches. 
It could be they are just evolving, it could be the whole image was curated by JB & M to pitch a TV show or it could be that there’s money to be made from social media and we know how the Duggars love money.

Jana has been pretty quiet on social media recently but I can picture a relaunch to coincide with Josh’s sentencing which will portray her as having independence and skills but choosing to be a SAHD. A sort of ‘look, over here, we’re normal!’. JB has no shame- he ran an election campaign during Josh’s trial so he’ll have no qualms about using his family to promote himself.

[nellautumngirl]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:58 PM, CanadianMamam said:

Her stories and YouTube tell a different story. She constantly comes across as stressed and detached from her kids. She is constantly cleaning, her kids seem like robots, etc. 

Alyssa seems like a quiet person who likes order, like Michaella. That doesn't really mix with a ton of kids

[Smee]

8 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Does that mean your divorce is final?  Congratulations!  It sounded like such an ordeal, it must feel so freeing.

Sadly no, I was using divorced as shorthand for “reneged on the ‘til death do us part’ bit in the marriage vows I made in a church”. We’re still battling out the financial settlement stuff (& child support now too 🙄) but it’s with lawyers and the custody is sorted so at the moment I’m a bit set-and-forget until a lawyer tells me I need to do something. I’m living a much happier life though!

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, patsymae said:

Well we never know what goes on behind the scenes or what they think, but I suspect Jana is living exactly the life she wants. 
As is/was Anna until this little glitch. 

Jana, yes, but I wouldn’t go THAT far with Anna. I’m sure that Smuggar was more than annoying behind closed doors. And no doubt she always imagined her family home would have another window or two. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Bastet

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 4/23/2022 at 8:48 AM, Bastet said:

Jana, yes, but I wouldn’t go THAT far with Anna. I’m sure that Smuggar was more than annoying behind closed doors. And no doubt she always imagined her family home would have another window or two. 

Or even one to begin with.

[Cam]

On 4/23/2022 at 8:48 AM, Bastet said:

Jana, yes, but I wouldn’t go THAT far with Anna. I’m sure that Smuggar was more than annoying behind closed doors. And no doubt she always imagined her family home would have another window or two. 

A woman I know with a couple kids had her house built and in the process, as the big living room picture window at the front of the house was being installed, the builder said, “That’s going to be the place where you’ll be standing looking out, waiting to see your son or daughter pulling into the driveway.” 
 

Anna doesn’t have that. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

15 hours ago, Cam said:

A woman I know with a couple kids had her house built and in the process, as the big living room picture window at the front of the house was being installed, the builder said, “That’s going to be the place where you’ll be standing looking out, waiting to see your son or daughter pulling into the driveway.” 
 

Anna doesn’t have that. 

Which part? The window, the house, the driveway, the ability to give her son or daughter enough freedom to leave unsupervised for normal activities?

[GuineaPigCourtship]

21 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Which part?

The window.  She would never let her kids have freedom or they might favor their disgusting father. (I do not believe this)

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:48 AM, SassyPants said:

I also think it’s more logical to assume, because that’s all we are doing here is assuming, that what the Duggars  say (repeatedly) is closer to the truth than some fantasy that we might make up based on OUR OWN experiences. Why would anyone think that Jana has her own property and tens of thousands of dollars based on a real estate transaction? If Jana was making money and selling properties, why would she, a 32 YO old woman, be living at home? Or need a chaperone to visit her sister? If she is savvy enough to buy and sell real estate, and has access to tens of thousands of dollars, why hasn’t she started her own life, beginning with telling her parents that she is capable of traveling to Vegas, alone?

 

Nope, it’s more likely that she has no such ability ($$$$) to make these types of decisions; is still attached to the TTH financial umbilical cord!

 

ETA- for those who believe that Jana owned and sold property and has retained the proceeds, do you really believe that Jana chooses to have a 20 YO brother or nearing 60 YO father chaperone? I could see how she might like living at home, but why would a 32 YO, financially independent woman agree to be treated like a minor? Why wouldn’t she prefer to travel with Laura? Couldn’t Laura be a chaperone/ accountability partner? I can’t see how or why any neurotypical 32  YO would willing accept the need for a chaperone, ever. A travel companion, sure, but a daddy mandated, little brother chaperone, no.

So from my own observations of fundie families like this that I've been friends with, I wouldn't actually be surprised to find out that Jana has considerable cash in her own name.  Many of them heavily espouse Dave Ramsey type of principles, and use them to teach their kids money management.  Building financial wealth not just for yourself but for your kids is a status symbol, and many of them marry, even young, with a decent chunk of money of their own, and with the intention of buying a house debt free.  I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out that Jana has tens of thousands of dollars in savings in her own name.  It's basically a dowry type of mindset.  Heavy financial dependence by young fundies on their parents is actively discouraged by most (working for them in a family business is encouraged over independent employment, but it is expected that fundie young men will get a paying job, and that married kids won't be getting handouts from the parents).  Most fundie young women are expected to have some kind of home business project, and generally keep those earnings for their own spending with a cut expected to go into savings.  Since their basic living costs are usually still paid by their parents, they're able to use those for more "fun" things.  

The Duggars may well be an exception.  It wouldn't be surprising.  But for the fundie world, it would be the exception, rather than the rule, for a SAHD of Jana's age to *not* have a pretty good chunk of change in savings.  

Yes, I absolutely believe that Jana is still choosing to be treated like a minor.  She's not just brainwashed into it, she's been taught that this is what is biblically expected of her.  She believes she is being spiritually protected from harm by this (think Gothard's umbrella of protection).  She believes that this is what God expects of her and that she is earning spiritual rewards by complying with this.  She doesn't believe this is daddy mandated.  She believes this is God mandated and that she is earning eternal rewards by doing it.  She is not the only older fundie SAHD who is still living it all out.  I know others.  

[SassyPants]

39 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

So from my own observations of fundie families like this that I've been friends with, I wouldn't actually be surprised to find out that Jana has considerable cash in her own name.  Many of them heavily espouse Dave Ramsey type of principles, and use them to teach their kids money management.  Building financial wealth not just for yourself but for your kids is a status symbol, and many of them marry, even young, with a decent chunk of money of their own, and with the intention of buying a house debt free.  I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out that Jana has tens of thousands of dollars in savings in her own name.  It's basically a dowry type of mindset.  Heavy financial dependence by young fundies on their parents is actively discouraged by most (working for them in a family business is encouraged over independent employment, but it is expected that fundie young men will get a paying job, and that married kids won't be getting handouts from the parents).  Most fundie young women are expected to have some kind of home business project, and generally keep those earnings for their own spending with a cut expected to go into savings.  Since their basic living costs are usually still paid by their parents, they're able to use those for more "fun" things.  

The Duggars may well be an exception.  It wouldn't be surprising.  But for the fundie world, it would be the exception, rather than the rule, for a SAHD of Jana's age to *not* have a pretty good chunk of change in savings.  

Yes, I absolutely believe that Jana is still choosing to be treated like a minor.  She's not just brainwashed into it, she's been taught that this is what is biblically expected of her.  She believes she is being spiritually protected from harm by this (think Gothard's umbrella of protection).  She believes that this is what God expects of her and that she is earning spiritual rewards by complying with this.  She doesn't believe this is daddy mandated.  She believes this is God mandated and that she is earning eternal rewards by doing it.  She is not the only older fundie SAHD who is still living it all out.  I know others.  

Yes, to the highlighted. Even when compared to other fundies discussed on FJ, the Duggars seem to be the exception, or outliers if you will. I’m sure JB’s financial security, no matter how it was obtained, and the presence of the long running reality TV helped to solidify that unusual position. As a comparative example, the Bates’ parents seemed to have launched their adult children in a different fashion. Many of the girls have had jobs (vs none of the Duggars) outside the home. Many of the G2 Bates have attended some form of either college (accredited or not) or trade school. All the females have married men who appear to work for a living. Of course, Gil did not have the financial security in the early days, that JB enjoyed.

If Jana does have “considerable cash” in her own name, and based on her years worked she should have something to show for her efforts, I hope she is paying her fair share in taxes. She should also be paying something for her room and board, if she’s being compensated as a worker. She is 32 YO and fully able bodied, no matter her beliefs, and if she’s being compensated for her efforts, she should be paying something towards her own support.

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 4/29/2022 at 4:59 PM, SassyPants said:

She should also be paying something for her room and board, if she’s being compensated as a worker. She is 32 YO and fully able bodied, no matter her beliefs, and if she’s being compensated for her efforts, she should be paying something towards her own support.

Most fundie SAHDs aren't being compensated as workers at a normal level, though - certainly not enough to cover room and board.  Their earnings are fairly minimal (and typically under the taxable threshold anyway), but their expenses are also fairly minimal so most of it goes into savings.  

It's not uncommon for SAHDs to be unpaid housekeeping/babysitting and have free room and board, and have tens of thousands of dollars in cash in savings.  Not all, by any means, but not uncommon, and in a family that overall has as much wealth as the Duggars, I wouldn't be shocked if Jana does.  Doesn't mean she was fairly compensated for her work on the show, or the babysitting she does/did, or all the other unpaid labor she's done, though.  She's probably rightfully earned far more money than she's ever seen.  

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

Most fundie SAHDs aren't being compensated as workers at a normal level, though - certainly not enough to cover room and board.  Their earnings are fairly minimal (and typically under the taxable threshold anyway), but their expenses are also fairly minimal so most of it goes into savings.  

It's not uncommon for SAHDs to be unpaid housekeeping/babysitting and have free room and board, and have tens of thousands of dollars in cash in savings.  Not all, by any means, but not uncommon, and in a family that overall has as much wealth as the Duggars, I wouldn't be shocked if Jana does.  Doesn't mean she was fairly compensated for her work on the show, or the babysitting she does/did, or all the other unpaid labor she's done, though.  She's probably rightfully earned far more money than she's ever seen.  

But than where would she have gotten the money to buy and own property? She either can’t afford rent because she isn’t being fairly compensated or she has oodles of liquid cash that she has used to buy property. Which is it? It can’t be both.

[Alisamer]

12 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

But than where would she have gotten the money to buy and own property? She either can’t afford rent because she isn’t being fairly compensated or she has oodles of liquid cash that she has used to buy property. Which is it? It can’t be both.

I am still convinced that any property in Jana's name (and Anna's, and any of the unmarried kids) is almost certainly "theirs" in name only. Jim Bob just seems shady to me, and I'm sure if there's any financial or tax benefit for his holdings to be in one of the kids' names, he'll do it. Jana's involvement in the property stuff might have just amounted to JB handing her a pen and saying "sign here and here for me. Thanks." 

Especiallly with him trying politics again and Josh being Josh - putting property in an adult child's name is a way to attempt to protect it when legal trouble happens. 

I hope Jana has a good chunk of change put away (she's certainly earned it), and that she gets to use that money how she sees fit. I just kind of doubt it.

Also fundie exceptions - the Rods. TimBits is of an age to be looking for a wife, yet couldn't even come up with a ten to buy a book after they dropped him off at college, and somehow managed to miss the fact that college costs money. He did, however, manage to come up with money for gifts for mama. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I am still convinced that any property in Jana's name (and Anna's, and any of the unmarried kids) is almost certainly "theirs" in name only. Jim Bob just seems shady to me, and I'm sure if there's any financial or tax benefit for his holdings to be in one of the kids' names, he'll do it. Jana's involvement in the property stuff might have just amounted to JB handing her a pen and saying "sign here and here for me. Thanks." 

Especiallly with him trying politics again and Josh being Josh - putting property in an adult child's name is a way to attempt to protect it when legal trouble happens. 

I hope Jana has a good chunk of change put away (she's certainly earned it), and that she gets to use that money how she sees fit. I just kind of doubt it.

Also fundie exceptions - the Rods. TimBits is of an age to be looking for a wife, yet couldn't even come up with a ten to buy a book after they dropped him off at college, and somehow managed to miss the fact that college costs money. He did, however, manage to come up with money for gifts for mama. 

I agree about many points made in this comment. I tend to err on the side that any property owned by Jana or Anna is in name only. If Anna owned property, debt free, why wouldn’t she be living in that property (provided it’s a structure suited for that)? If Jana owned commercial property, why wouldn’t she be running a business out of that property? 

I also agree that JB presents as shady, and everything he does is for HIS direct benefit. Dereck explained that JB was angry and verbally aggressive when he and Jill approached him about being compensated for doing the show. I’m guessing if one is not toeing JB’s line, he makes life very difficult for the dissenter.