Remnant Fellowship 21: 53 Standing Ovations and I Move to Brentwood!

[Alisamer]

Also the preliminary NTSB report on the crash says:

Quote

The pilot held a commercial pilot certificate with ratings for airplane single-engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He also held a private pilot certificate with a rating for rotorcraft-helicopter. The pilot held a type rating for the airplane with no restrictions. His most recent Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) second-class medical certificate was issued on November 12, 2019, with the limitation that he “must wear corrective lenses.”

So if he had to be re-certified every 2 years, his certification was good through November 12, 2021. 

I'm gonna trust the NTSB on this one, not a news report.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Alisamer
Fixing formatting.

[hoipolloi]

19 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

According to the news investigation, his medical certificate was NOT current.

What news investigation? OAN?

Give it a rest. His medical certificate was current. 

[formergothardite]

Didn't a lot of the misinformation regarding Joe's ability to fly come from Dan? One thing we have learned is that he just makes stuff up. One of his last videos on RF he claims that all cults end in bloody violence and that with RF it will be guns and bombs. He also claimed Michael will be killing himself in the coming weeks. 

The man is not trustworthy at all. 

[SnarkyLawyer]

26 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Unless they managed to falsify federal records several states away, this is not true. 

According to News 4 Investigation, the FAA database has his last medical certificate as being issued in 2017. The one from 2019, was obtained from the church. At this point, I'm going to ask that you watch the News 4 link. 

[Coconut Flan]

What's the date of the news broadcast? 

If you can't read the screen shot of the FAA database and see what they are showing currently and see his medical was current.  If you can't comprehend that Dan lied and that at the time of the crash the FAA database was missing some info and that has been corrected.  If you can't get all that, then let's all pray your name is wrong and you aren't really a lawyer. 

You might want to post a link not a screen shot when you say link. 

[Alisamer]

I'm pretty sure the NTSB didn't swing by the church looking for a certificate that the FAA had to already have. And I also think that the church had no reason to have the certificate - Joe might have had a copy but everything is digital these days, the doctor who signed off on his certification would have sent it directly to the FAA I'm sure. DIrect from his database to theirs. If there was tomfoolery going on, the NTSB would have noted it certainly.

It's an interesting story, and I'm glad it got the news channel some views, but I've met reporters. I've known TV news producers. And I'm going to trust the FAA and the NTSB on this one.

[SnarkyLawyer]

It does look like drug testing is part of the medical exam. I'd like to point out that my original comment was only in regard to reasons Lara may not have wanted to get his certificate renewed, not whether he was under the influence, at the time of the crash. https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/presolo/special/pilots-guide-to-medical-certification

2 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I'm pretty sure the NTSB didn't swing by the church looking for a certificate that the FAA had to already have. And I also think that the church had no reason to have the certificate - Joe might have had a copy but everything is digital these days, the doctor who signed off on his certification would have sent it directly to the FAA I'm sure. DIrect from his database to theirs. If there was tomfoolery going on, the NTSB would have noted it certainly.

It's an interesting story, and I'm glad it got the news channel some views, but I've met reporters. I've known TV news producers. And I'm going to trust the FAA and the NTSB on this one.

Ok. I'm going to trust that investigative reporters at News 4 did their due diligence. 

5 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

What's the date of the news broadcast? 

If you can't read the screen shot of the FAA database and see what they are showing currently and see his medical was current.  If you can't comprehend that Dan lied and that at the time of the crash the FAA database was missing some info and that has been corrected.  If you can't get all that, then let's all pray your name is wrong and you aren't really a lawyer. 

You might want to post a link not a screen shot when you say link. 

I posted the actual link. In fact, I've been using the link to go back and re-watch. 

[Alisamer]

3 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

Ok. I'm going to trust that investigative reporters at News 4 did their due diligence. 

That's fine. We all have to decide what we believe.

I'm going to go with the organization whose job is to investigate all aspects of air accidents (worldwide, hundreds of them) and who have direct access to the FAA and it's certifications, who would actually look BETTER if it turned out Joe was flying without a proper certification. (Not our fault, we didn't certify him!)

I personally believe they have better access to accurate information than a local news station does. No matter how much due diligence they did. (Or had their interns do, which is how it often works.) 

[SnarkyLawyer]

9 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

It does look like drug testing is part of the medical exam. I'd like to point out that my original comment was only in regard to reasons Lara may not have wanted to get his certificate renewed, not whether he was under the influence, at the time of the crash. https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/presolo/special/pilots-guide-to-medical-certification

Ok. I'm going to trust that investigative reporters at News 4 did their due diligence. 

I posted the actual link. In fact, I've been using the link to go back and re-watch. 

The news report had absolutely nothing to do with Dan Gryder. It was an independent event. 

[nelliebelle1197]

2 hours ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

1) I live in a state where marijuana is legal, and am familiar with what people said to obtain a medical card

2) He obtained his medical card in California, right before marijuana was legalized, or at least, no longer illegal.

3) Regardless, marijuana is still an illegal controlled substance, at the federal level, and the feds govern the aviation medical certificates.

4) I'm happy you know some pilots that managed to squeeze by, but the rules specifically state that chronic sleep disorders, including insomnia, aren't allowed.

I cannot go into why, but you really need to trust @Destiny with aviation stuff. She actually knows what she is talking about; you are just reading something on a website.

53 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

The news report had absolutely nothing to do with Dan Gryder. It was an independent event. 

But you are believing a news report over an actual FAA document. Why are you digging in on this? It does not make any sense. The news report WAS WRONG.

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

It does look like drug testing is part of the medical exam. I'd like to point out that my original comment was only in regard to reasons Lara may not have wanted to get his certificate renewed, not whether he was under the influence, at the time of the crash. https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/presolo/special/pilots-guide-to-medical-certification

I'm confused. The image you posted and the link both agree with me that drug testing is not part of the medical exam. There IS a process for drug testing commercial pilots on a random basis, but as your image pointed out, that's done independently of this exam. For general aviation pilots I'm not sure how random testing works, if it is even done, but I am absolutely certain that testing will be done on the remains to confirm if drug use was a factor in the accident.

At any rate, there is no indication at this time that his use of marijuana was ongoing, or a factor in this accident, so none of this really matters.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Destiny

[formergothardite]

We discussed the news clips pretty heavily when they first came out, but I watched them again. Originally the medical certificate online was expired, but as we followed this saga closely when it went down, it became obvious that all that has happened was that the website hadn't been updated. The clip of him saying it was expired throws up a red flag for me because we didn't hear the question that he was replying to and it seem obvious that there was more to the sentence than the few words they showed. 

There is no reason for the government to lie about this. Joe wasn't powerful with connections. 

[Destiny]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The clip of him saying it was expired throws up a red flag for me because we didn't hear the question that he was replying to and it seem obvious that there was more to the sentence than the few words they showed. 

It's also possible, and I'm too lazy to go back and look at screenshots, that in reference to whatever he was replying to, it was expired at the time he said that. IIRC, and again, too lazy to go actually pull the screenshots, there was a time that he would have had an expired medical between when the (again going on memory here) third class medical expired and he got the new second class one. Since there's no indication he was actively flying in that time, this is not a problem. It's only bad to fly if you don't have a medical. If you aren't flying, why spend the money to get one?

He would have had to have an active medical appropriate to the aircraft he was flying to get the type rating. That's probably why he went and got the second class medical whenever it was he did -- to go to the school to get that rating.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Destiny

[SnarkyLawyer]

9 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I'm confused. The image you posted and the link both agree with me that drug testing is not part of the medical exam. There IS a process for drug testing commercial pilots on a random basis, but as your image pointed out, that's done independently of this exam. For general aviation pilots I'm not sure how random testing works, if it is even done, but I am absolutely certain that testing will be done on the remains to confirm if drug use was a factor in the accident.

At any rate, there is no indication at this time that his use of marijuana was ongoing, or a factor in this accident, so none of this really matters.

The image I posted states that drug testing is a routine part of the FAA medical exam, but that participation in the FAA drug testing program is independent from that. 

[hoipolloi]

Is that the sound of wailing & gnashing teeth that I hear coming from Brentwood, TN?

From the Washington Post.

[SnarkyLawyer]

9 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

We discussed the news clips pretty heavily when they first came out, but I watched them again. Originally the medical certificate online was expired, but as we followed this saga closely when it went down, it became obvious that all that has happened was that the website hadn't been updated. The clip of him saying it was expired throws up a red flag for me because we didn't hear the question that he was replying to and it seem obvious that there was more to the sentence than the few words they showed. 

There is no reason for the government to lie about this. Joe wasn't powerful with connections. 

I don't think the government lied, either, which is why I looked up his medical certificate as well. It does state that it was valid until November, 2019. So, it appears that that particular aspect of the news report was incorrect. However, I have been told to move along, so not quite sure how to handle the continued replies. 

[Destiny]

2 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

The image I posted states that drug testing is a routine part of the FAA medical exam, but that participation in the FAA drug testing program is independent from that. 

No, it says that the examiner will not be testing for drugs. Full quote:

Quote

No. Your AME will not be testing for illicit drugs during a flight physical. A routine part of the FAA medical exam is a urinalysis to check for sugar or protein, indicators of possible diabetes or kidney disease. Even as a commercial pilot participating in the DOT/FAA drug testing program, a drug test is done independent of an aviation medical examination. Your AME may also be a medical review officer for a drug testing company, but when conducting a flight physical, he/she will not test you for illicit drugs.

 

[MamaJunebug]

5 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Is that the sound of wailing & gnashing teeth that I hear coming from Brentwood, TN?

From the Washington Post.

I'm trying my hardest not to subscribe to anything ('til I have a plan on what I really want and when) and so, if you could summarize what TWP had to say about TWD, I for one would have beaucoup treats of your choosing waiting for you next time you head to the prayer closet.

And that's about the longest run-on sentence ever.  Apolgies and TIA! ❤️ 

While it's on my mind and before I re-start a search for my iphone (it's in the bug nest, just don't know where), two things about RF.  One funny, one not.

To get the unfunny out of the way.

A friend says she immediately suspected the pilot wanted to die, and didn't care about taking 6 people with him. She bases this on his possible feelings of entrapment. I personally hope it was not his idea.  

The funny, a palate cleanser.

Got my monthly haircut this week and my stylist - from out of nowhere - started talking about bump-its.  Said she had a friend who still used a yuuuuuge one.  I bought up a recent photo of the late Ms. Lara and turned my phone so the stylist could see it.

She's usually a very placid-faced person, but this time her eyes bugged out, her mouth went into a big "O" shape and she giggled, "That's just what my friend looks like!"

She might've had more to say.  I'll never know.  I had made my usual disclaimer statement about feeling guilty at speaking less than well of the deceased.  So the stylist might have felt restrained.  

But her reaction was price-less.

Edited October 7, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[hoipolloi]

4 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I'm trying my hardest not to subscribe to anything ('til I have a plan on what I really want and when) and so, if you could summarize what TWP had to say about TWD, I for one would have beaucoup treats of your choosing waiting for you next time you head to the prayer closet.

And that's about the longest run-on sentence ever.  Apolgies and TIA! ❤️ 

They donʻt have much to say, just this blurb. The article is about whatʻs on TV this fall:

Quote

“The Way Down” would be shocking enough as an exposé if it exclusively focused on the first part of its critique: the intersection of the evangelical church and diet culture. Gwen Shamblin Lara, who died earlier this year when her private jet crashed, began her working life as a dietitian before becoming a preacher and a best-selling author of religion-themed diet books. (Thinness was a reflection of holiness, Shamblin’s congregation was allegedly told.) But director Marina Zenovich structures her three-part documentary — two more installments are to arrive in 2022, with reportedly more of Shamblin’s followers willing to speak out after her death — like Dante’s visit to the circles of hell; the deeper we wade in, the more grotesque the cruelties.

 

[SnarkyLawyer]

38 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I cannot go into why, but you really need to trust @Destiny with aviation stuff. She actually knows what she is talking about; you are just reading something on a website.

But you are believing a news report over an actual FAA document. Why are you digging in on this? It does not make any sense. The news report WAS WRONG.

I'm not actually believing the news report, over an actual government document. The document that she posted looked like the same one the News organization obtained from the church, which is why I responded the way I did. I have since also looked up his medical certificate on the government website, which does state November 2019. Therefore, I acknowledge that that portion of the news report was incorrect.

While the website I linked for the drug testing wasn't an official government website, the link for the regulations about chronic medical conditions was. I wasn't trying to suggest that someone with a background in aviation on this forum shouldn't be believed. I was only quoting the actual government regulations, and stating that I don't see where insomnia, or any other chronic sleep disorder is no longer considered as a reason to deny certification. 

[Destiny]

6 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I'm trying my hardest not to subscribe to anything ('til I have a plan on what I really want and when) and so, if you could summarize what TWP had to say about TWD, I for one would have beaucoup treats of your choosing waiting for you next time you head to the prayer closet.

HAHAHAHA! I was wondering how in the world The Walking Dead wandered into this discussion. For some reason, I call it The Gwen Files in my head and I forgot it had a real name and was VERY confused.

[MamaJunebug]

2 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

They donʻt have much to say, just this blurb. The article is about whatʻs on TV this fall:

 

So well written! I can see that persuading a lot of discerning viewers to turn in.  Shine that light on the darkness!  Thank you a zillion,  @hoipolloi.  I'm serious about those PC snacks! 🥰

 

=

[SnarkyLawyer]

12 minutes ago, Destiny said:

No, it says that the examiner will not be testing for drugs. Full quote:

 

Yes, it does. I misread the quote. Apologies.

[AuntKrazy]

There is an FAA drug testing program called HMS for pilots who have substance related offences, such as DUI.  I believe this is what they mean by "separate FAA drug testing program".  HMS is extremely thorough.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just now, MamaJunebug said:

So well written! I can see that persuading a lot of discerning viewers to turn in.  Shine that light on the darkness!  Thank you a zillion,  @hoipolloi.  I'm serious about those PC snacks! 🥰

 

=

I need to go check registrations.... ugh..... I keep thinking we are going to get hit but we aren't. We are far down the google machine with the Shamblin Shambles thanks to the crash and now the doc but it will happen.