Maxwell 50: Maxhell Has Frozen Over. Anna and Mary Are Off to College and Sarah Moves Out!

[HeartsAFundie]

42 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

Well holy shitballs I didn't see this post coming even though I begged Rufus for it to happen.

So happy for Sarah, I don't care if she bought her own house, renting, got married, or even living with Gigi.  She. Is. Out. Of. The. Fathership!

Hell will have frozen over three times if Teri decides to leave Steve.

Will miss the blog.  Like someone said up thread this is like the last episode of Cheers.  More like MASH.

 

The season finale of "Good Times" comes to mind too.  Everyone in the cast finally, after years of struggling, got out of the projects and got their much deserved happy ending. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, sparkles said:

I wonder if Sarah will continue writing, given all these changes. She was the designated author but never really seemed to have a passion for it (or any natural talent or learned skill over the years) and since the two main avenues of promotion—first the conferences and now the blog—will likely no longer exist, it seems like she’d have an easy out if she wanted one, especially if she’s really that busy working for her brothers.

I also wonder how some the Maxes’ hard core followers feel about this latest bombshell. Basically, so much of what Steve chastised others for, he’s now guilty of. No more being the head of your own church, no more sheltering your kids from the influence of education outside the home, no more living under daddy’s protection until marriage. He’s sold everyone a bill of goods and if people unended their family’s lives to follow his advice, they have every right to feel betrayed and taken in. Hopefully, if they feel that way, they’ll also see there’s a way out, so Steve may actually have done them a big favor. 

Not to be a BEC, but if Sarah truly wants to advance her writing career, she needs to take some basic English courses. She needs a real instructor to teach her basic: grammar, syntax , subject verb agreement, vocab…

[sleepygirl1]

For the next thread may I make a title suggestion? Something like the Maxwell girls one, two, three, THEY’RE OUT!!!!

[Tiny Bubbles]

Holy cow!  Holy COW!!  
 

Could hardly believe the great news.  Way to go,  Maxwell daughters!  

[Bethy]

Wow...just wow.

I was planning on hopping online this morning to comment about Anna Marie's hair and holy cow, the landscape has changed! 

They may say the girls are planning for a career in "missions" but that doesn't mean the girls will end up in a tiny village in Africa. There are missions that operate within the United States and some people even consider teaching in a Christian school to be "missions" work. 

Sarah moving out...wow, I definitely did not see that one coming! Good for her. It will be interesting to see if they ever say where she's moved to but she may be one of the "adult children" who value privacy. I wonder if she has any awareness of FJ and how many of us have been pulling for her all along, and may worry that FJ readers might make her home a pilgrimage destination. (They have to remember the FJers who crashed their conference that one time, when Mary made the heart hands and said "I love my daddy!")

I could see them updating a time or two each year, possibly updating more regularly if something requiring urgent prayer comes up (a premature baby, a cancer battle.) An annual post - like a lot of people's Christmas letters, back before we were all connected to each other's lives online - would be really nice, just a count of how many grandbabies there are, who's graduating from college, weddings, etc.

That's an awful lot of house for just Steve and Teri, so it wouldn't surprise me if they moved into Gigi's house and sold the fathership. They'd probably want to keep it in the family if possible, so I could see John's family moving there (if he wanted to stay local and close) or possibly Nate's family since the yards back up to each other and I'm not sure where Aunties' Playground is in relation to property lines.

As to Anna Marie's hair: I know we all like it short, but I understand her reasons for wanting long hair and that they may go beyond the Bible verse about "if a woman has long hair it is a glory to her" or Christopher's preferences. She's had long hair as long as we've known anything about her and, given her family's extreme fundie leanings, probably it's been more like her whole life. Long hair is associated with her regular life and existence; short hair is associated with cancer, suffering, and fear. So as much as I'd love to see those gorgeous face-framing curls stick around, I can't fault her for wanting to feel as "normal" as possible, and for her that includes very long hair.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Just stopped by to see the latest on A&M and I saw the new title. OMG Sarah left the Maxhell Mothership.  I am gob smacked.

I was so hoping she would take the opportunity to get in her red car and peel out of the driveway. -- but thought Stevehovah would guilt her into staying.

Off to catch up on the multiple pages of news. Go Sarah!!!!!!

 

 

[0 kids n not countin]

Glad Sarah finally got a life of her own before turning 40!!  Too bad the same can't be said of the Arndt man boys (as far as we know).  The oldest will be 41 in a few days, and the next 3 (John, Mark, and Luke) are rapidly approaching 40!

Perhaps Sarah will meet a godly middle-aged man at her church and actually get married.  Heck, I didn't marry until I was 43!  😅

Edited September 11, 2021 by 0 kids n not countin

[Black Aliss]

15 hours ago, browngrl said:

here's my theory : Anna or Mary or Sarah or maybe all three spoke with their new pastor and "hearts were shared". The pastor recognized the depths of their despair and took action by talking to Steve. I don't know if Steve just gave up because he was tired from dealing with his own health issues or maybe he found it impossible to ignore the sadness and dissatisfaction in his daughter's faces but either way I really really want him to come here and do an AMA. 

 

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or even a certified mental health professional. This is my trip on the ISB.

For some time now (a couple of years, maybe) I've thought Anna had the look of "a woman on the edge of a nervous breakdown".  I've seen that look in my own mirror as well as in other young women's faces. In contrast, Sarah appears to have a more low-level chronic depression. It's not much of a stretch that Anna could have sought counseling from her pastor and that opened the floodgates, so to speak. That might explain some of Steve's grumbling about people in his church who saw things differently from him.

[formergothardite]

Real life had the audacity to keep me busy and I come back to find out that Sarah is moving out! I was not emotionally prepared for this. 

[Black Aliss]

4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I feel a twinge of hope for Abby now.

Anna and Mary leaving the state must be hard on her. I hope she's making friends her own age at church and that's just one of those things, like women and girls wearing that which pertaineth to a man, that must not be mentioned on the blog.

[nelliebelle1197]

28 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Real life had the audacity to keep me busy and I come back to find out that Sarah is moving out! I was not emotionally prepared for this. 

We should have exchanged contact info years ago for just this reason!

[JermajestyDuggar]

29 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Anna and Mary leaving the state must be hard on her. I hope she's making friends her own age at church and that's just one of those things, like women and girls wearing that which pertaineth to a man, that must not be mentioned on the blog.

There has to be a youth group at that new church. Hopefully Abby can participate. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

24 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Anna and Mary leaving the state must be hard on her. I hope she's making friends her own age at church and that's just one of those things, like women and girls wearing that which pertaineth to a man, that must not be mentioned on the blog.

Bethany is only 2 years younger than Abby, so she at least has her sisters. I wouldn't be surprised if they attended some sort of youth group together.
I have hope for Nathan's kids, Joseph's kids, and Jesse's kids if he and Anna Craig Maxwell have kids. Anna Marie still seems very fundie to me. Chelsy is also fundie and her family is very extreme. I hope John and Chelsy don't move to Bontragerhell.

Wishing good things for the whole family!

[freethemall]

Now, did Sarah take Ellie with her? I hope so. I wonder if she'll start her own blog.

The wording in the blog post was interesting about Anna and Mary going to pursue ministry. I read that as going to find the right man who they will support in leading a ministry. We all know these are husband-finding moves right? Exciting either way but I'm skeptical about any true Liberation happening. 

[DonutWench]

I'm so happy to read the news about Sarah (Anna and Mary too, but especially Sarah. Also, I normally would not consider "going to Bible College good news, but for them, it's definitely one of the best possible outcomes, and I'm happy for them.)

Sarah has always reminded me of my mom (minus the religious part): She lived at home until her 30s (my grandparents really just liked having her around, and my mom is super shy and cautious) while she went to college and worked as a teacher, and then one day was kind of like "I want my own life!" so she got her own car (a brand new mustang at that!) and moved out one weekend while my grandparents were visiting family (they knew she was planning on it, she just chose that weekend because she knew it would be hard for them). Then, right before she turned 40 she met my dad and had me and my sister. To this day, she's pretty happy and successful.  

My aunt had always told me that NO ONE expected that to happen: the whole family thought she would just live at home forever. I always suspected that if my mom could do it, Sarah could too, and I'm so glad that she did!

[Captain Obvious]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

I do enjoy how the blog post just sort of ignores that what Sarah, Anna and Mary are doing is the exact opposite of what the Maxwells have preached and believed in for years. 

It kind of is but also kind of isn’t. Yes the Maxwells practised separation and isolation, but that was the purpose of protecting the children when they actually were children. We don’t really know what the expectations were of what children are allowed to do once they reach adulthood. Other than being Christian, obviously, which we already know the Maxwells succeeded at.

While you could assume that it was Steve’s rule that his adult children could only leave if they were married - and none of the boys left home until they were married - we don’t know  for sure if he actually forbade them from leaving or they just chose not to. I mean, there are plenty of non-Christian men quite happy to stay home and have the women of the house look after them, and in the Max boys’ case, not moving out also means they can save money for the glorious debt-free married life that awaits them.

I could be wrong, but I’m also not sure if the Maxwell way actually oppose college per se, but sees it as frivolous, potentially dangerous and (most importantly) expensive. Why pay money to go to college when you can buy a house debt free just with hard work and choosing the right career?

But, since there’s no expectation that girls have to buy a house debt free, I’m not sure if he actually had to change his thinking to allow them to attend. They just may have needed to save up for it, not go into debt to attend and show it was for a Godly purpose. Like they would have done to go on their mission trips. 

It’s kind of the same thing with Sarah. A Max son moving out before marriage would be considered wasteful, if not actually forbidden, because by living independently he’d be spending money he could be saving for his future family. A daughter doesn’t have those pressures or expectation. Therefore, since Steve and Teri seem to have conceded that Sarah isn’t going to get married, she has more freedom to just spend her own money on herself. 

2 hours ago, Caroline said:

I wonder if fundies like the Maxwells and Erika Shupe can change more drastically because (IMO) they seem more intelligent and analytical than the others (Duggars, Bates, and especially the Rods).  The Maxwells also acquired higher education and didn't Erika also have a degree?  I'm not saying that college grads are smarter than non-college grads, but with higher education you learn to see the world differently and aren't as likely to emerge from your education with black/white thinking.  I know there are exceptions, but the Maxwells and Erika seem to value learning at least and to some extent creativity (Erika's daughter, the artist/ Sarah and her books and Mary who illustrates the books).  I don't get that vibe from many of the other families, ESPECIALLY the poor Rods.

It’s not just the education, but also being in a financial position to make these kind of decisions. Steve probably earned decent money before his “retirement”, and as much as we snark at his obsession with debt free living and raising robots, you could stage it has worked, because all of his children, even the girls, have been in a position to have served enough and saved enough money to travel, buy houses and cars and (now) attend college and live independently.

[thoughtful]

I've been thinking about Steve's idiotic idea that any activity anyone enjoys becomes an "idol." I think that is one of the most awful things Steve and Teri did to their kids.

I found myself on the ISB for a little ride, imagining conversations with the pastor at the church, and maybe some other people, or observation of people around them following their genuine interests, during which any or all of these three women had a revelation. It may have been sudden, or gradual. It may have been heartening, heartbreaking, enraging, or a mix.

But I can't help hoping that somehow, the idea that it is a good thing to pursue work and hobbies you enjoy occurred to them, and that they've realized their father's "if you like it, it will become an idol and distract you from God's work" rule was total crap.

I hope that Mary and Anna either really want to be missionaries, or will change their major or go for further education in something else.

We don't know if Sarah will pursue further education or different work. Even if she doesn't, she could end up like lots of people who have an office job that's not all that fulfilling but pays the bills, and having her pleasures come from home, pets, friends and non-work activities.

Besides being out of that house and away from that piece of controlling shit and his partner in child-stifling, I think that the idea that it is healthy to pursue things that actually interest them could be the most freeing thing to happen to them.

We don't really know, but I so dearly hope it was, or will be, part of this process, and they are not still determined to be dutiful at all costs and continue to stunt their own intelligence and emotions.

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I've been thinking this for awhile and hope to heavens I'm wrong.  I see Christopher as a dog in the Maxhell manger. The 'if daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy'' rule.

Stevehovah forced him to give up sports and the dream of being an EMT. I have no doubt Stevehovah forced decided Christopher was to be the photographer (with no talent or passion for it) the same as he forced decided Sarah was the author (with no talent or passion for it).

Christopher has doubled down and clung hard to the Maxhell teachings in a perverse "If I couldn't do want I wanted, none one of my children can. They have to give up wants and dreams as I did."

Except now Things. Have. Changed. A&M are out of state off to college. Sarah has her own home. She's not blogging, not creating Tits 2 content, most likely not writing any more Moody books.  Steve has even publicly acknowledged things have changed.

Not. Fair. Not fair at all.  Nothing has changed for Christopher.

Steve took away his childhood, crushed his EMT dream, pushed him into a job he didn't want, and made sure that Christopher was right there all the time in Steve sight and under his oppressive control.

So what's next for Chris? Does he triple down and and become Christohovah - even more oppressive and self righteous that Stevehovah. Are his children isolated even more than he and siblings were.

Or does he say the heck with it. loosen up and live his own life. Tell Stevehovah he's done with Maxhell rules . Let his children have the childhood he was denied.

I'm hoping for this outcome.

[thoughtful]

18 minutes ago, freethemall said:

Now, did Sarah take Ellie with her?

I hope so! They've always referred to her as Sarah's dog, so I think it's very likely

I was wondering if Arnold went with her, or if Steve and Teri consider him their cat.

[Dru]

I knew shit was "falling apart" in Maxhell when they started showing Mel and her girls wearing pants on the blog. I would love if Sarah started her own blog about living on her own for the first time.

Ok, back to read the thread. Haven't been here in a minute.

[Palimpsest]

Well, bless my soul and my little cotton socks.  The Lord laid it on my heart to check Titus 2 this morning and I see the remaining Maxwell chickens have flown the coup!  I also see that FJ is (as usual) right on the news and was even able to scoop Steve's announcement about Anna and Mary, college students.  This pretty much forced Steve to make an official Titus 2 announcement.  Dear Lord, writing that post must have burned his arrogant rear end no end. 

Good for them.  Especially Sarah.  I really never thought I'd see her move out.  Or finally to tell Dad and Mom to get stuffed over the Titus 2 "ministry" and blog.  Poor Sarah's been diligently and passive aggressively trying to dump the blog for years.  It's way beyond time S and T did their own work on Titus 2, but apparently they would rather shut the blog down than admit they were wrong about anything.  And the ministry has been dwindling away for years.

I am surprised that the "girls" finally found their ovaries but, when you think about it, Steve has been slowly losing (or perhaps even voluntarily ceding) control for years too.  I see it starting when they had that big business revamp a few years ago when he turned over CCI to Nathan and Joseph essentially went out on his own with Swift Otter.   There have been other signs of minor rebellion from the boys over time with things like Jesse breaking ranks and taking out a mortgage.  Add in the influences of the married-ins like Elissa and Chelsey who are the "right kind of Christian enough" but not as suffocated as in Maxhell.  I think the final push must have been being able to go to a real church with a decent pastor willing to recommend Bible College.  

Moreover, Steve is essentially hoist with his own petard.  He always said that his adult children were allowed to make their own decisions.  They just "chose" to stay at home and could move out any time they wanted.  Well, the daughters have just taken him at his word.  And I'm sure they prayed and fasted, fasted and prayed, and God told them to get the hell out of Maxhell.  Not much even Stevehovah can do about "God's will."

But can you imagine that family meeting?  Was it a full intervention with all the brothers and the outside Pastor arguing with Steve?  Oh, to have been a fly on that wall.

But it leaves so many unanswered questions.  Did Anna and Mary diligently put away $20 a week in an envelope until they could pay for college themselves?  Or, such horrors, have they taken out student loans and gone into debt? 

But I'm not at all surprised that A and M want to be missionaries.  The writing has been clearly on the wall about that for several years now.  I just hope they stick to the USA and don't go to pollute Africa or even worse "creative access" countries with Steve's twisted version of Christianity.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Quote

since Steve and Teri seem to have conceded that Sarah isn’t going to get married, she has more freedom to just spend her own money on herself. 

They may have conceded, but they are the reason she (probably) won't get married.  Steve was insistent that godly Prince Charming would just show up.   So Sarah had to  be a dutiful daughter and stay home and wait. And wait. And wait. And. wait. And wait some more........

For whatever reason Sarah decided to stop waiting for her life to begin and began it herself.

I'm not completely convinced that Stevehovah didn't insist that his at home children use a portion of the money they earned to support the family. I suspect he banked the rest for them and (maybe) gave them a small allowance -- not sure about the allowance though.

Steve made good money as an engineer, but he quit years ago.  What has he been living on since then? Did Tits 2 bring in that much?

It's like the Arndts.  The kidults support the family as Rick "retired" young and hasn't worked since. He's not independently wealthy; he didn't inherit money.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

We should have exchanged contact info years ago for just this reason!

Humph.   FG shouldn't trust you.  You have my contact info. and failed to alert me to this truly ground-breaking news in a timely fashion.  And you promised!  Granted, Sarah Maxwell didn't get married but moving out of the Fathership is nearly as good! 

[Caroline]

41 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Or does he say the heck with it. loosen up and live his own life. Tell Stevehovah he's done with Maxhell rules . Let his children have the childhood he was denied.

I'm hoping for this outcome.

I think these are good questions to ask about both Christopher and Sarah.  They seem to be the ones most adversely affected by all the crazy religion and controlling ways of their parents whether because of personality or birth order. I hope especially that Sarah can give herself permission to do what the rest of us consider normal things without always worrying about what her parents will think, where she will go when she dies (because maybe she went to the wrong movie), and other worries that even people here who've left that lifestyle say were difficult to adjust to.  I understand that she's not leaving the faith, but on some level it must feel like she's doing everything wrong because she lived in such abnormal circumstances for so long.  She seems like a strong woman who can manage, but I hope she has some good allies on her side either from her church or among her siblings and their wives.    I don't think of Mary and Anna in this way.  They seem very close and a little feistier than the others, maybe because they're so much younger.  I think they can manage to readjust to the big bad world and might even enjoy it

Also: I can't imagine limiting my child so much that she might feel guilty or confused about how to live her own life.

[petrushka]

2 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or even a certified mental health professional. This is my trip on the ISB.

For some time now (a couple of years, maybe) I've thought Anna had the look of "a woman on the edge of a nervous breakdown".  I've seen that look in my own mirror as well as in other young women's faces. In contrast, Sarah appears to have a more low-level chronic depression. It's not much of a stretch that Anna could have sought counseling from her pastor and that opened the floodgates, so to speak. That might explain some of Steve's grumbling about people in his church who saw things differently from him.

 

Of all the Maxwell daughters, Anna seemed the most happy and comfortable around children.  I could totally imagine her feeling frustrated as she saw her brothers grow their families while she had no prospects of courtship that we knew about.  I'd hoped she and Mary would have gotten to meet some GYMs when they attended a Bontrager family camp a few years ago, and was disappointed for them when only Jesse managed to meet his future spouse through the Bontragers.  Bible college may be the only way to her dreams.

Mary Maxwell is still a puzzle to me.  Aside from her "artistic" talents, we really know very little about her.