[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[SassyPants]

I get being cavalier about or using the same basic PW for various accounts, especially the ones that you rarely use, but for YOUR FINANCIAL ACCOUNTS? Come on now, why are they all so lazy and dumb? It comes with an unhealthy side of entitled. Besides additional kids that neither Anna nor himself can provide for, Josh really doesn’t contribute anything to the greater good, does he-

Then again, he doesn’t really work for the money that’s in his accounts does he? Wonder if JB puts just enough in the account to keep gas in the cars and food in the bellies? Maybe he doesn’t directly give them anything…that could explain Josh’s cavalier approach -

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, SassyPants said:

I get being cavalier about or using the same basic PW for various accounts, especially the ones that you rarely use, but for YOUR FINANCIAL ACCOUNTS? Come on now, why are they all so lazy and dumb? It comes with an unhealthy side of entitled. Besides additional kids that neither Anna nor himself can provide for, Josh really doesn’t contribute anything to the greater good, does he-

Then again, he doesn’t really work for the money that’s in his accounts does he? Wonder if JB puts just enough in the account to keep gas in the cars and food in the bellies? Maybe he doesn’t directly give them anything…that could explain Josh’s cavalier approach -

You are right it is lazy and dumb and also very, very common even amongst people not nearly as dumb as the average Duggar.  I'm telling you as an IT person who deals with people's personal passwords when I have to fix their stuff for free it's absolutely common.  People being wise about password security is rare enough that I'm pleasantly surprised when I see it.

[somanybooks]

I nominate “Josh’s uncovenanted eyes” for a thread title.

[Nike]

37 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I get being cavalier about or using the same basic PW for various accounts, especially the ones that you rarely use, but for YOUR FINANCIAL ACCOUNTS? Come on now, why are they all so lazy and dumb?...

 

Maybe we should be surprised that he used passwords at all and didn't leave the protection "up to the Lord". Seeing how especial they think they are, they probably think that Jesus would be watching ready to taser anyone who touched the interests of their favourite flock.

[Expectopatronus]

I guess, technically it could be anyone who had access to the computer especially since he used his birthday as his password but I highly doubt that this would get him acquitted. A question for those of you who know the American legal system; if other employees (including siblings) were called as witnesses, could they refuse to answer the questions on the grounds that they have the right to not incriminate themselves? Academic question, I’m not accusing anyone else of downloading criminal material. 

[Alisamer]

13 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

 A question for those of you who know the American legal system; if other employees (including siblings) were called as witnesses, could they refuse to answer the questions on the grounds that they have the right to not incriminate themselves? Academic question, I’m not accusing anyone else of downloading criminal material. 

I'm not a legal expert by any means but I believe the fifth amendment to the US constitution allows people to "plead the fifth" to avoid incriminating themselves. I hope one of our actually knowledgable legal people will explain if there are limits to that or certain situations where it can or can't be used.

I do know that among the general public someone "pleading the fifth" is generally met with an eye roll and "Uh huh. Right..." because it's kind of assumed that if you refuse to incriminate yourself you are, by pleading the fifth, making it obvious that you did whatever you're being asked about.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I'm not a legal expert by any means but I believe the fifth amendment to the US constitution allows people to "plead the fifth" to avoid incriminating themselves. I hope one of our actually knowledgable legal people will explain if there are limits to that or certain situations where it can or can't be used.

I do know that among the general public someone "pleading the fifth" is generally met with an eye roll and "Uh huh. Right..." because it's kind of assumed that if you refuse to incriminate yourself you are, by pleading the fifth, making it obvious that you did whatever you're being asked about.

Yep, it's one of those things that they can tell the jury they shouldn't make assumptions based on it, but most people will assume you're guilty of something. 

[justoneoftwo]

Side note, he does not have to prove someone else was there at the time, he has to show that the government didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there wasn't.  Its very different 

[fundiewatch]

Wasn’t he sending text messages to Anna from the dealership at the same time that the Linux partition was installed and the CSA downloaded? That office is the size of a toll booth. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, fundiewatch said:

Wasn’t he sending text messages to Anna from the dealership at the same time that the Linux partition was installed and the CSA downloaded? That office is the size of a toll booth. 

I don't recall about the partition installation, but yes to the texts right around the same time the material was accessed.  It was also said he took the laptop back and forth with him so it wasn't left in the office for general use.  

 

[JenniferJuniper]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't recall about the partition installation, but yes to the texts right around the same time the material was accessed.  It was also said he took the laptop back and forth with him so it wasn't left in the office for general use.  

I'm confused about whether the material was on a stationary computer in the trailer or the laptop. My first impresson was that it was the stationary computer, but I'm really not sure. I do remember that Josh not only texted Anna about having to "work" late, but he sent a text to a members in his family asking them to pray for a person in a motorcycle accident out in front of the car lot, again placing him in the trailer at a specific time. 

As for the partition, I seem to recall it was installed shortly before Josh accessed the material he is charged with possessing but not necessarily the same day?

[Dandruff]

If (big if) the case against Josh was to be dropped on a technicality, I'm sure Josh would be very happy but what about the rest of the Duggar family?  I wonder whether public opinion would shift much.  The family would once again have him in proximity, I tend to doubt that anyone would want him around their children, and I'd expect there to be concern about him potentially being alone with his own children.  Would the family have a chance of restoring their previous, clean image and could the show potentially go on, or would there be too much focus on what he might do next?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

If (big if) the case against Josh was to be dropped on a technicality, I'm sure Josh would be very happy but what about the rest of the Duggar family?  I wonder whether public opinion would shift much.  The family would once again have him in proximity, I tend to doubt that anyone would want him around their children, and I'd expect there to be concern about him potentially being alone with his own children.  Would the family have a chance of restoring their previous, clean image and could the show potentially go on, or would there be too much focus on what he might do next?

I don't think the public image will ever recover.  As to how the family would react, who knows?  They could well all buy into the magical thinking that because he was let off it was God's way of protecting him because he's innocent and they go back to normal.  They didn't protect their kids from them after he molested their own sisters in their own home, why would they suddenly care that he's a danger now?

16 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I'm confused about whether the material was on a stationary computer in the trailer or the laptop. My first impresson was that it was the stationary computer, but I'm really not sure. I do remember that Josh not only texted Anna about having to "work" late, but he sent a text to a members in his family asking them to pray for a person in a motorcycle accident out in front of the car lot, again placing him in the trailer at a specific time. 

As for the partition, I seem to recall it was installed shortly before Josh accessed the material he is charged with possessing but not necessarily the same day?

I recall the same about the partition being installed in the general time period but not that day, but for the life of me can't tell you where I heard that or if it's accurate.

I was under the impression it was the laptop, but I could be wrong because I can't remember the source of that info either.  

[somanybooks]

I should have credited @JenniferJuniper for “Josh’s uncovenanted eyes”. I love that line.

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

If (big if) the case against Josh was to be dropped on a technicality, I'm sure Josh would be very happy but what about the rest of the Duggar family?  I wonder whether public opinion would shift much.  The family would once again have him in proximity, I tend to doubt that anyone would want him around their children, and I'd expect there to be concern about him potentially being alone with his own children.  Would the family have a chance of restoring their previous, clean image and could the show potentially go on, or would there be too much focus on what he might do next?

OMG-the irony of a child abuser being born into a family that has made its living off of spawning baby after; all babies all the time. “It’s like saying there are too many flowers…” M Duggar(copped from M Theresa).

[JenniferJuniper]

11 minutes ago, somanybooks said:

I should have credited @JenniferJuniper for “Josh’s uncovenanted eyes”. I love that line.

I confess I had to look up whether uncovenanted was a word or not.  But it is.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

If (big if) the case against Josh was to be dropped on a technicality, I'm sure Josh would be very happy but what about the rest of the Duggar family?  I wonder whether public opinion would shift much.  The family would once again have him in proximity, I tend to doubt that anyone would want him around their children, and I'd expect there to be concern about him potentially being alone with his own children.  Would the family have a chance of restoring their previous, clean image and could the show potentially go on, or would there be too much focus on what he might do next?

To the bolded:  My take is completely different.  If the family didn’t worry about him being around little girls after he molested his sisters, they are probably not going to worry that he will molest little girls because he is now known to view CSA porn.

In the first place, they believe that true repentance and prayer could “cure” Josh.  In the second place, they may not believe that viewing CSA porn makes him a risk to children. They may reason that he is no longer “too curious” about female bodies and that his access to Anna’s body means he is not a threat.  To them, the sin of watching any kind of porn may be more significant than the fact that this porn involved the sexual abuse of children. Just as they would probably not worry about being murdered by Josh if they heard he was watching snuff films, they will probably not connect the CSA porn with a sign of greater risk to the minors in the family.

(Please note that I am speculating about the possible Duggar reaction to the CSA porn accusation/evidence.  I am not saying that I believe any of the things that I speculate they might believe.  I would not let him anywhere near children.)

It is possible that some of the girls he abused may always have been reluctant to leave other little girls but especially daughters and nieces alone with Josh even without the discovery that he was viewing CSA porn.  And it is possible (one hopes) that knowing Josh’s CSA porn interests will solidify for some of the family any unease they already had.  However, I wouldn’t count on it if he expresses remorse, minimizes what he did (“I was just sinning by looking at adult porn.  The CSA just got there accidentally, and I was shocked!”), and so forth.  They have forgiven him before.

 

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

To the bolded:  My take is completely different.  If the family didn’t worry about him being around little girls after he molested his sisters, they are probably not going to worry that he will molest little girls because he is now known to view CSA porn.

In the first place, they believe that true repentance and prayer could “cure” Josh.  In the second place, they may not believe that viewing CSA porn makes him a risk to children. They may reason that he is no longer “too curious” about female bodies and that his access to Anna’s body means he is not a threat.  To them, the sin of watching any kind of porn may be more significant than the fact that this porn involved the sexual abuse of children. Just as they would probably not worry about being murdered by Josh if they heard he was watching snuff films, they will probably not connect the CSA porn with a sign of greater risk to the minors in the family.

(Please note that I am speculating about the possible Duggar reaction to the CSA porn accusation/evidence.  I am not saying that I believe any of the things that I speculate they might believe.  I would not let him anywhere near children.)

It is possible that some of the girls he abused may always have been reluctant to leave other little girls but especially daughters and nieces alone with Josh even without the discovery that he was viewing CSA porn.  And it is possible (one hopes) that knowing Josh’s CSA porn interests will solidify for some of the family any unease they already had.  However, I wouldn’t count on it if he expresses remorse, minimizes what he did (“I was just sinning by looking at adult porn.  The CSA just got there accidentally, and I was shocked!”), and so forth.  They have forgiven him before.

 

Teenager touching multiple prepubescent sisters and another

                OR

A man viewing child porn

 

Good God, what a choice. Can’t we all agree that he is depraved?

I can’t imagine anyone wanting this man around their children.

[EmCatlyn]

29 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Teenager touching multiple prepubescent sisters and another

                OR

A man viewing child porn

Good God, what a choice. Can’t we all agree that he is depraved?

I can’t imagine anyone wanting this man around their children.

I think all of us here can all agree that he is a creep and a person we don’t want around children.

The question, however, is how does his family see him?  

I would love for them to ostracize him,  keep him away from all their children, and encourage Anna to get a divorce and deny him unsupervised access to his children.  But how likely is this?

The Duggars have a history of blinding themselves to the seriousness of what Josh does/has done once he has “repented” after being punished/sent to pray and work “therapy” etc.   Will they finally see the light?  (I think they won’t.  I hope I am wrong.)

[Idlewild]

Being a sexual predator doesn’t seem to be a criteria that gets you excluded from Duggarville.

So far we know of Josh, their CSA cop friend, Bill Gothard, Tabitha Paine’s husband and their friend who was prosecuted for sexual abuse of underage girls - all welcomed and none condemned.

The older ones with homes of their own may restrict the invitations to Josh as and when he is released into society, but you can bet he and Anna and all the kids will be showing up for ‘family night’ ASAP.

[SassyPants]

58 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Being a sexual predator doesn’t seem to be a criteria that gets you excluded from Duggarville.

So far we know of Josh, their CSA cop friend, Bill Gothard, Tabitha Paine’s husband and their friend who was prosecuted for sexual abuse of underage girls - all welcomed and none condemned.

The older ones with homes of their own may restrict the invitations to Josh as and when he is released into society, but you can bet he and Anna and all the kids will be showing up for ‘family night’ ASAP.

And vocal Trump, “grab women by the pussy and they like it” supporters.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, Smee said:

They had evidence like texts to Anna and stuff putting him at the car lot at the specific time the files were downloaded. Unless he can prove someone else was there that particular day and time, “I’m not the only one who works there and uses the computer” wouldn’t be enough for “reasonable” doubt in my mind. Depends on the jurors I guess.

Well, the burden of proof is on the feds. 

It would be hard for anyone (Josh or the feds) to prove or disprove that Josh was alone at the car lot on some random evening in 2019. Who could possibly remember? Unless the Duggar brothers clock in and out, they probably only have their old work schedules to rely on. Even if, say, Josiah was there with Josh that day, who would remember what time he left? Josh could easily say that Josiah had stuck around to wash cars. Unless there's scrupulous records, no one would know whether that was true or not. 

The feds aren't going to bring a case with that kind of uncertainty. I bet they have video of Josh  downloading the images.

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

The question, however, is how does his family see him?  

 

Josh seems to be the "golden child" in this particular dysfunctional family. Jill can be ostracized by reasonably asking for her tv pay, but Josh is coddled even when he's committed the most heinous of crimes.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Jackie3

[Jrodseyeliner]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Being a sexual predator doesn’t seem to be a criteria that gets you excluded from Duggarville.

So far we know of Josh, their CSA cop friend, Bill Gothard, Tabitha Paine’s husband and their friend who was prosecuted for sexual abuse of underage girls - all welcomed and none condemned.

The older ones with homes of their own may restrict the invitations to Josh as and when he is released into society, but you can bet he and Anna and all the kids will be showing up for ‘family night’ ASAP.

And yet Jill is shunned???  That is the part I don’t get. 

[Giraffe]

1 minute ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

And yet Jill is shunned???  That is the part I don’t get. 

Exactly. This will never make sense. 

[SassyPants]

Just a thought. You know how most of us adults, especially those of us with kids or who had raised kids, have a financial plan in place? I would love to sit down with JB and Michelle to ask them what their master, financial plan was as they  grew their family to an astronomical size, isolated and refused to educate the children. What were they thinking? And for a long time, Josh was the only married child, so could they not see that he really could not support a growing family all on his own? I don’t want to think that JB or M are dumb as boxes of rocks (but then again they sold their family to the media as pure and above it all, yet harbored Josh, sooooo), they had to know that the show would eventually go away. 
Does JB really think he can support 19 (JIll out, Tyler in) large families and fund he and Michelle’s old age needs? Unless he is doing illegal activitie$, which wouldn’t surprise me, there’s just no way. 
 

How do you plan on Supporting 19 kids and all their kids, without any skills, jobs or intention of working? I DON’T GET IT!

ETA- I screamed “what’s your plan” at my adolescent (at the time) kids so often they use the phrase to mock me now that they are grown adults. “What’s your plan, mom”! My poor son had it the worst. His name is Daniel. What’s your plan, Dan really rolls nicely off of the tongue. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by SassyPants