[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[AliceInFundyland]

...Sometimes I want to hit people who are like, oh I can hug my loved ones again. (I'm an introvert) but I was dealing with a year of working at home at a toxic job and then quitting it right before COViD. And having an extreme nervous breakdown in 10/19.

My life was more isolated then I wanted it to be before the pandemic and while some things improved... I've worked on me/not having the job pressure has helped. I'm still alone. More alone than I want. And it won't change dramatically because of vaccinations. ?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

@IdlewildPond life Josh. I like that. Didn't the kids read a book about life in the pond? Now their brother is living there.

They were featured in a kids' series called "Life at the Pond ". (I thought it was a video, but apparently it's audio only.)

https://lifeatthepond.com/products/19-000-frogs-counting

https://www.duggarfamily.com/favorite/life-at-the-pond/

Pond life, pond scum...

[Jacked]

6 hours ago, postscript said:

I’m an extreme introvert and have no problem being on my own for days on end, but quarantine has been too much seclusion for me. The combination of not seeing actual people, health issues affecting my mobility, death of a parent, and no escape from my head has left me seriously depressed and worried that I’m never going to be able to leave the house again. I’ve come to like working from home, but i really need to get through the depression and mobility issues. 

I see you. And we have a lot in common. Just wanted to say hang in there. And be good to yourself.

59 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

They were featured in a kids' series called "Life at the Pond ". (I thought it was a video, but apparently it's audio only.)

https://lifeatthepond.com/products/19-000-frogs-counting

https://www.duggarfamily.com/favorite/life-at-the-pond/

Pond life, pond scum...

Omg! I vaguely remember them taping the pond thing on the show. That was years before I realized how fucked up the Duggar’s are... oh how little did I know. Deprogramming journey in my world has been a lengthy learning experience; to say the least.

[Satan'sFortress]

I can go either way on the introvert/extrovert thing.  What I want, and what has only happened a few times since March 2020, is to be alone in my own home.  4 adults living here. We are never alone.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Satan'sFortress

[onekidanddone]

52 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I can go either way on the introvert/extrovert thing.  What I want, and what has only happened a few times since March 2020, is to be alone in my own home.  4 adults living here. We are never alone.

I totally get it. We are two adults and a high school junior. I love my family but for Rufus’s sake just GO AWAY. 
 

Adding: Mr. OneKid’s mom died the same week OneKid had an 11 hour surgery. Yea 2020 sucked 

Edited June 8, 2021 by onekidanddone

[Not that josh's mom]

My son calls me a functioning recluse. So true and I'm perfectly happy that way. I work two afternoons a week, mostly away from the public. Pharmacy and grocery curbside pick up. There are some kind of long days since my husband died a couple months ago. Thank goodness for freejinger and a couple other sites that help. I dont mind going out wearing a mask, because I have a grumpy face that the mask hides. Going to be very hard for me to back to "normal". Do I have to?

[EmmieJ]

@Not that Josh's Mom, I plan to keep wearing a mask when in public.  I think it will help reduce the number and severity of colds.  It's also a great sunblock for much of my face.  And hides resting bitch face.

[SnarkyLawyer]

9 hours ago, viii said:

I will be shocked if he pleads guilty.

He will absolutely plead guilty, as part of a plea deal. Going to trial would be extremely expensive, and he will lose. His lawyers know this.

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Unfortunately, I think Josh and JB are both tone deaf enough that neither would consider Josh pleading guilty. That would admit that he had actually done something wrong, no matter if it was less than the original charges. Coming out of this, Josh is going to say he was "persecuted", just like Jill Rodrigues does, either for his "fame" or his "faith"..

The financial cost has to be considered, though.  Would JB prefer to spend tons of money on a trial to be able to say Josh was persecuted?   Or will he cut his losses and have Josh plead guilty and then go around saying that Josh was framed but that he took the plea in order to ease the burden on his family. (Josh the sacrificial lamb. ?) 

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Continued from here:

Thanks to @AussieKrissy for the thread title, she of the excellent posts and nightmare inducing avatar.

I had to go back to about half way through the thread to find a quote.

TLDR from the last thread:  Speculation if Anna can/will do the right thing, thread drift about comfort viewing clearly in response to the horror of his charges, and Josh is still an evil fucking monster - some things never change.  

Omg omg I feel like I have won an Oscar. This has made my day. Thank you for that love Love love. I came to catch up and create thread drift. We got to see our beautiful mini sausage again this weekend and next time we will most probably be bringing her home. Dixie is just adorable. 

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Hmmmm, I'm sure his lawyer has explained he'd be crazy to not take a plea deal on a Federal charge, but we don't know if one has been offered. 

Two thoughts:

(1) The Duggars are crazy — and not too bright.  They may hope to win a trial regardless of what lawyers advise. ??‍♀️

(2) I would think it likely he would be offered a plea deal, because it saves the government money not to go to trial.  The thing is the deal on offer is not the deal Josh and JB are hoping for.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

A plea deal would save money on lawyers and keep the specifics of Josh’s actions (somewhat more) private, both of which JB very much wants to do. No way he won’t cut a deal.

[JenniferJuniper]

53 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

A plea deal would save money on lawyers and keep the specifics of Josh’s actions (somewhat more) private, both of which JB very much wants to do. No way he won’t cut a deal.

Agree.  What we already know is horrible enough, but a trial may bring even more awful stuff to the surface and in the end there will be more time in prison for Josh and a lot less money in JB's coffers.  Even if Josh pleads guilty, they can still claim persecution.  If given a platform, Jim Bob will try to spin it in Josh's favor.  He's innocent, but the fix was in (Obama judge!) and Josh couldn't risk being away from Anna for 40 years and not see his children grow up.  And Josh is such a good husband and father (gag) he couldn't bear to think of that outcome, no matter how small the actual risk.  So he took the deal for the good of his family.  Such a good man.

Meanwhile, back at the big house, James will still have to sneak out to visit his Momma Jill because she and Derick are such destructive influences.

[Gobsmacked]

12 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I can go either way on the introvert/extrovert thing.  What I want, and what has only happened a few times since March 2020, is to be alone in my own home.  4 adults living here. We are never alone.

Same here. Fortunately we have managed to get through without strangling each other. I’m amazed at just how resilient my sons are. I’m a proud mum. One has been doing zoom college and just passed his course with an A. He is off to Uni in September although he is going continue to live with us due to health reasons and the pandemic.  Younger son has held his own working a full time job over zoom ( or some such)! He has an interview for a  better paying job coming up. He is saving like mad to afford his own place early next year. We have been lucky but I keep waiting for something to go wrong. Anxiety levels are sky high sadly. 

[2sweet4me]

21 hours ago, fundiefriday said:

 I do think Josh will probably plead guilty so that he can reduce his sentence unless he's completely in denial.  Does anyone know how long his lawyer could potentially continue the case and put off Josh either pleaing guilty or going to trial? 

I don't have a clue about how long they can get continuances as this is federal court and I have no clue about how anything runs in federal court.  I do know that in state courts there is something called an "Alford plea" which is "a guilty plea in which a defendant maintains their innocence but admits that the prosecution's evidence would likely result in a guilty verdict if brought to trial". This is all subject to the federal judge accepting said plea.  If judge does not accept plea, for any reason, then it's back to the drawing board for the lawyers and Josh to determine his plea.

[Nike]

18 hours ago, Idlewild said:

JB is no doubt desperately trying to think of a good way to spin this. He has manipulated events and got away with it for so long he is arrogant. He has been a big fish in the Arkansas and fundie ponds.

I hope this case teaches him a lesson as much as Josh...

It must be killing JB that this trial is not going to be the Megyn Kelly interview where he decided the questions and minimised the abuse.

Sadly I don't think either JB or Josh will learn a lesson. Narcissists are completely blind to their own wrongdoings even when they are right in front of them doing a crazy dance.

[EmCatlyn]

13 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

[snipped]

Meanwhile, back at the big house, James will still have to sneak out to visit his Momma Jill because she and Derick are such destructive influences.

Do we know this is the case?  I know that Jill has said that they had been invited to family things but chosen not to go. So maybe JB and M don’t forbid the kids from seeing Jill, just discourage it.  (Just asking.)

As for JB’s “support” of Josh, aside from any favoritism toward the first-born son, I think what is involved here in JB’s view of the world is protecting the brand. That’s why I think that once JB recognizes the “best possible deal,” he will make it, and (as you say) start spinning.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

15 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Omg omg I feel like I have won an Oscar. This has made my day. Thank you for that love Love love. I came to catch up and create thread drift. We got to see our beautiful mini sausage again this weekend and next time we will most probably be bringing her home. Dixie is just adorable. 

She would make a perfect avatar ...just saying  

17 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I can go either way on the introvert/extrovert thing.  What I want, and what has only happened a few times since March 2020, is to be alone in my own home.  4 adults living here. We are never alone.

Thank you for this, I needed the reminder that feeling like this doesn't make me a bad mom.  

[formergothardite]

JB will do whatever he thinks will protect the family brand. Josh, though, might fuck over his dear old dad by refusing to take a plea deal leaving JB to either keep paying for lawyers or having to declare to the world his son is guilty and he won’t pay for lawyers. If Josh takes a plea deal JB can still spin this as he being innocent and Josh is just doing what he can to get  home to his kids the fastest. 
 

Josh seems angry and resentful. I can see JB threatening to stop paying for lawyers and Josh daring him to do so. There is no spinning this as Josh being innocent if JB leaves Josh to find his own lawyers. 

[Themanda Duggar]

Does anyone else think Michelle wonders if she miscarried the wrong baby all those years ago?

[feministxtian]

The lawyers JB hired are supposedly the "big guns". If I remember right, one of the lawyers (the one from Missouri) has gotten people off on these charges. They'll go to trial. 

[PennySycamore]

@AussieKrissy,  Your little Dixie is completely adorable!  Nor only does she have a dachsie/doxie face, but she has got those dachsie feet, just made for digging.  My dachsie, Trinket, is satisfied with digging in her blankie.  Trinket is a tweenie -not a mini and not a standard.  

[postscript]

2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

The lawyers JB hired are supposedly the "big guns". If I remember right, one of the lawyers (the one from Missouri) has gotten people off on these charges. They'll go to trial. 

They’ll probably be pushing the “reasonable doubt” standard (I.e., it’s possible somebody other than Josh could have access to the computer and to Josh’s passwords, so it’s possible that person, not Josh, was responsible). They’ll probably also try to get evidence excluded on technicalities, for example the alleged improper warrant which has been previously discussed. I’m comparing it to high-profile criminal trials (OJ Simpson being the most obvious example) where the public was convinced of the defendant’s guilt, but defense counsel was able to plant enough of a seed of doubt in the juries’ minds to get an acquittal. 

I wonder if Jim Bob has suggested a term in Jesus Jail as a possible compromise. I can see him telling the feds,  “he’ll be punished, just let us do it in our own way.” To which the feds, of course, would say no. 

[Smee]

JB is an arrogant twat, but he loves money, control and fame more than he loves any of his expendable children, including Josh. Jill used to be his favourite daughter, remember? Once it becomes clear that Josh is guilty and will be found guilty and a trial will cost a fortune and completely kill his status as fundie royalty, he will tell Josh to take a plea deal. Then the spin will be confessing that he is a sinner, only redeemable by Jesus, who works miracles and can use this time of pain for God’s glory. Think the Ashley Madison statement “I was addicted to porn and unfaithful to my wife” with some blame given to Satan. Avoiding trial will also mean avoiding details becoming public, which will allow them to minimise it more and lie a la “it was over the clothes, we didn’t even know anything had happened”.

[Antimony]

19 hours ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

He will absolutely plead guilty, as part of a plea deal. Going to trial would be extremely expensive, and he will lose. His lawyers know this.

I believe you, and I agree, but I think the matter of when might be interesting -- how long will he keep paying these lawyers before he realizes the best option? It's a good payday if you're a lawyer for this particular brand of cocky idiot, I suppose. Gelfand seems like the biggest bigwig of his team, but a search for his CSA cases leads to some notable guilty pleas. I also don't have my finger on the pulse of how the public perceived a guilty plea. Because of the system through which these pleas work, I usually don't assume they mean an actual admittance of guilt but I suspect that a lot of people do read them that way, and that image would matter to Jim Bob and/or Josh.

Interestingly, this isn't even his first 'Dugg-r'. Gelfand defended a Justin Dugger in a CSA case in Missouri in 2014. Also a guilty plea, for 37 months. (This particular crime would have ranked lower on sentencing guidelines than Josh's, for what that comparison is worth.)