The Exvangelical Movement

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I am so glad my church was mainstream and all moving of the spirit was towards post-service coffee and biscuits.

Yes! I grew up baptist and we were very set on the time. If the preacher went a few minutes over, you could tell! People were rustling in their seats and looking at their watches. 

[Jasmar]

I LOVE that Lyle Lovett song. Actually, I love most Lyle Lovett songs.

[Howl]

4 hours ago, Jasmar said:

I LOVE that Lyle Lovett song. Actually, I love most Lyle Lovett songs.

Me too!  He's politically conservative, but I'll over look that.  I saw him two years ago in a little restaurant in Austin with his wife and 2 young (?) kids.  Regular guy in jeans, boots, plaid cowboy shirt and baseball cap -- probably pretty much what he grew up wearing -- it took me a little while to recognize him. 

'

[closetcagebaby]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:28 PM, Hane said:

The LDS Church *claims* that it’s one of the fastest-growing religions in the world. Ex-Mormons say that the numbers only reflect people baptized or born into the religion, not those who are inactive or who intentionally left.

Also it’s really hard to actually get your name removed from the records - you have to send a legal letter and it’s a whole thing. So that will artificially inflate numbers as well. 

[Jasmar]

Ah shoot, I didn’t know he was conservative. Well, I still love his music!

[Talitha Cumi]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:03 PM, Howl said:

I know!  How much happy creaminess can there be in one small pan? 

A relative brought a scalloped potato dish to Thanksgiving a few years ago that came close. IIRC, there was condensed milk involved in that recipe. 

My headship would be over the moon for that! Ever since I made dulce de leche a few weeks ago, he's threatened to put it in everything that requires any dairy whatsoever. (He's the one who usually cooks. Take that, patriarchy!)

[Alisamer]

On 5/23/2021 at 8:06 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes! I grew up baptist and we were very set on the time. If the preacher went a few minutes over, you could tell! People were rustling in their seats and looking at their watches. 

Same! The church I grew up in was fundie-lite leaning, but there was a clock on the back wall where the preacher could see it. At the church I am currently a member of, the pastor has come out and told us up front that he and the music minister do their best to get us out by noon most Sundays, so if there's something special and it runs over a bit people won't complain too much. 

He's done some pretty short sermons, especially on Sundays when the former associate pastor comes up to do a prayer. I clocked that guy at 25 minutes one time - for a before-meal prayer!

[smittykins]

My first Episcopal priest grew up Southern Baptist, and he mentioned that  before-meal prayers in his family went pretty long as well.  I actually admire their ability to pray in their own words.  I tend to fall back on “rote” ones(Our Father, Hail Mary, etc.).

[2sweet4me]

One of my great-aunts was a JW, and you did NOT want her to say the blessing for meals.  Breakfast blessings would go on so long that you could see your eggs and coffee getting cold, and kids could just imagine how soggy their Frosted Flakes were getting.

[ADoyle90815]

One other thing about the LDS church is that when Mormons give a meal blessing, it can be long enough for the funeral potatoes to get cold. Now, my Catholic grandma made a scalloped potato casserole similar to those, but she used sliced, raw potatoes so they cooked while the casserole was baking. She also used onion soup/dip mix with the cream of mushroom soup instead of the cream of chicken that Mormons use. She got the recipe from some magazine in the 50's, and it was a cheap side dish for a growing family, and later for family holiday dinners. To me, the Mormon funeral potatoes dish is more like cheesy mashed potatoes than what my grandma made.

[theotherelise]

I've never associated funeral potatoes with Mormons! We have it at most potlucks in Missouri. As much as Missouri might be Mormon promised land, I've had the dish in all sorts of non-mormon crowds. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I've never associated funeral potatoes with Mormons! We have it at most potlucks in Missouri. As much as Missouri might be Mormon promised land, I've had the dish in all sorts of non-mormon crowds. 

Same. I think it’s a common Midwest staple. 

[Howl]

The End of White Evangelical Hegemony by Blake Chastain

[Howl]

I stumbled on this 2014 HuffPo article while googling something over on the Botkin thread, but I'll share it here as well.  I followed up on the author who did a major life change after leaving conservative religious academia and now seems to be living an amazing best life as a travel writer, focusing on eco tourism, but a lot of other stuff! 

Sep 28, 2014, Brandon Withrow: How Westminster Theological Seminary Came to Define Fundamentalism for Me  Would you be surprised to learn that a tenured professor of the Old Testament is the center of controversy at a Christian seminary? What if I said he’s “retiring” by action of the school’s board — another way of saying “terminated,” according to a former department chair?  No? I didn’t think so.

What Brandon Withrow is up to today: 

brandonwithrow.com/

[Howl]

Why would anyone ever leave evangelicalism over Ray Comfort's lovely version of Christianity? 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 hours ago, Howl said:

Why would anyone ever leave evangelicalism over Ray Comfort's lovely version of Christianity? 

 

How can anyone look at a newborn baby and think, “evil sinner!” It’s sick.

[stylites]

On 6/9/2021 at 6:26 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

How can anyone look at a newborn baby and think, “evil sinner!” It’s sick.

There's a certain type of evangelical that revels in coming up with the most negative energy presentations of the faith ("Don't like it that God hates your unredeemed ass? Wuss!").  There's a Calvinist version of this too, that involves every more outrageous statements around predestination (until they end up sounding like the most extreme Salafist).

[Howl]

 

[Smee]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:57 AM, Sarcastically spinster said:

Some of us have moved out of fundie-land *because* we've learned that we're still Christians.  We've learned that, while we may differ from what our parents and families believed, we still love Jesus.  And we see how much some of the churches we were raised in do not reflect Jesus.  We've learned that much of what we were told was Christianity was really just culture. And I've seen that be absolutely heart-wrenching for some of my friends.  Loving and valuing the church but struggling to find a safe church.  Calling yourself a Christian still but coming to terms with how much damage has been done in the name of Christianity.  Dealing with ripple effects in family relationships (all the rest of my family is still fundie).   

Oof, I feel this. It’s a hard slog finding the lines between doctrine and culture, trying to throw off the white supremacist, heteronormative, colonialist and patriarchal history of the church while holding to Jesus and the community and my own experiences of God. My family are atheist and I converted in my teens, so at least I don’t have their influence to contend with, but PEOPLE in general make it heart wrenching to question your beliefs because you’re questioning a community in the process. Theologically, I don’t think my semi-conservative (by Aus standards at least), evangelical Baptist church is the right fit for me anymore and I’m not pleased with some of what my kids are learning in kids’ church. But I don’t want to leave the support network, the stability, the sense of purpose in being part of ministries, the shared heart for poverty, the joy of being involved in the music team, the fun events... and I still believe, genuinely, in my heart, in God’s love demonstrated through Christ, so could I just stay anyway... I don’t know. It’s hard. I’m really glad the internet is around to help people in similar circumstances share and connect like this though.

[ElizaB]

So I am not evangelical; however, I have been to my fair share of evangelical events. Some of the top meals I have had in my life were made by older ladies at evangelical churches. 

[quiversR4hunting]

On 6/14/2021 at 8:24 AM, Smee said:

Oof, I feel this. It’s a hard slog finding the lines between doctrine and culture, trying to throw off the white supremacist, heteronormative, colonialist and patriarchal history of the church while holding to Jesus and the community and my own experiences of God. My family are atheist and I converted in my teens, so at least I don’t have their influence to contend with, but PEOPLE in general make it heart wrenching to question your beliefs because you’re questioning a community in the process. Theologically, I don’t think my semi-conservative (by Aus standards at least), evangelical Baptist church is the right fit for me anymore and I’m not pleased with some of what my kids are learning in kids’ church. But I don’t want to leave the support network, the stability, the sense of purpose in being part of ministries, the shared heart for poverty, the joy of being involved in the music team, the fun events... and I still believe, genuinely, in my heart, in God’s love demonstrated through Christ, so could I just stay anyway... I don’t know. It’s hard. I’m really glad the internet is around to help people in similar circumstances share and connect like this though.

Have you thought of looking at the UU (Unitarian Universalist)? I don't know much about UU (I'm Catholic) but some on here have talked about it and seems very liberal and open and might give you the community you need. They do exist in Aus (I assume that is Australia & not Austria) http://anzuua.org/ 

Good luck with your discernment in figuring out what is right for your family. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
Finished thought

[Smee]

7 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Have you thought of looking at the UU (Unitarian Universalist)? I don't know much about UU (I'm Catholic) but some on here have talked about it and seems very liberal and open and might give you the community you need. They do exist in Aus (I assume that is Australia & not Austria) http://anzuua.org/ 

Good luck with your discernment in figuring out what is right for your family. 

Unfortunately I’m not in a capital city, but thank you. I recently joined the queer group at my university (figuring out that I’m asexual has also been part of my questioning of the church) so was thinking about asking there for recommendations of an LGBTQ+ friendly church, since I figure that’s a good sign that they won’t be conservative evangelicals. We also have Common Grace here which is a Christian organisation that promotes stuff like environmental protection and care of refugees, reconciliation informed and led by Aboriginal elders etc. But it’s a difficult environment to navigate because unlike the US, I see a lot of evangelical churches moving toward the Christian Left and adopting more progressive stances, especially those with xennial and millennial pastors. I do think there’s hope to be a voice within, pushing for positive change. So sometimes I’m like “my church can’t be that bad, we have at least one trans woman (possibly more, who knows unless they’re open about it), an unwed pregnant woman who is not being counselled into a shotgun marriage, a divorcee on the leadership team, ministries with genuine, generous hearts for poverty and those seeking companionship” and I’m currently in the midst of a separation where people from the church have given me stuff to furnish my house with when moving out, offered meals, places to bathe my kids while I was getting plumbing sorted with the real estate, and of course company and support without telling me I should go back to my husband. But then my kids come home from Sunday school telling me about how God made dragons on the fourth day and I’m like ?‍♀️

[quiversR4hunting]

@Smee {hugs} there wasn't an appropriate reaction. I wish you well on your journey!

[Howl]

There's a lot of back and forth going on between current evangelicals and ex's, mainly because current evangelicals just refuse to get why people "leave the pews" and avoid just asking people why they left, or, for example, read Empty the Pews: Stories of Leaving the Church. 

and this

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Howl

[MamaJunebug]

Interestinger & interestinger. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by MamaJunebug