The Exvangelical Movement

[SassyPants]

On 8/29/2021 at 10:10 AM, louisa05 said:

Many Catholic priests have advanced degrees in areas beyond theology. I know some with degrees in counseling, social work and educational administration. It’s also becoming more common for men to pursue the priesthood later in life. Our current priest got a degree in journalism and worked in the field before entering seminary. Our previous one didn’t go to seminary until age 40. He had a bachelors degree in some science area, a culinary degree and was at one time a professional chef. Another priest we know went in his early 30s and was a CPA before that. The latter two gave the most real world practical homilies I’ve ever heard. 

My mom’s cousin is a retired priest. He is also a retired Professor and department head from a large state university, and a graduate of an Ivy League -

[hoipolloi]

Looks like Shannon Harris Bonne (Josh Harrisʻ former wife) is weighing in on the TX abortion bill:

I look forward to reading her upcoming memoir (2023). 

[hoipolloi]

The latest episode on the Straight White American Jesus podcast is an interesting discussion with Ryan Stollar on how Britney Spears' conservatorship includes so many elements of evangelical Christianity + purity culture.

Quote

 

Brad speaks with Ryan Stollar, expert on child protection and a Christian homeschooling survivor. Ryan shares his research on the evangelical and ex-evangelical components of Britney's story--from her childhood in church, to her experiences in purity culture, to the powerful evangelical business manager who convinced her dad to put Britney under conservatorship.

It is a story of sexualizing young women, toxic sexual standards, overwhelming patriarchy, and a shocking loophole in our legal system. Stollar makes a compelling case that #FreeBritney is an exvangelical cause, and that Spears's conservatorship represents the culmination of many evangelical beliefs and practices concerning wayward, apostate children

 

 

[FiveAcres]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

The latest episode on the Straight White American Jesus podcast is an interesting discussion with Ryan Stollar on how Britney Spears' conservatorship includes so many elements of evangelical Christianity + purity culture.

 

Thank you. I've been following the Spears conservatorship through the lens of Emily Baker's youtube videos about it. And I have wondered how much overlap there was with the themes that we see here on FJ. I've subscribed so I can check them out. 

[Howl]

 

[Howl]

 

[Howl]

 

[Jasmar]

They never listened to us when we were part of the fold, why would they start now?

[Howl]

R. L. Stollar's article at Religious Dispatches about Brittney Spears, her origins in Southern Baptist religious culture,  how the conservatorship is in essence patriarchal control is excellent. 

Why Free Britney is an Exvangelical Cause

Also, Lou Taylor, good grief. 

Quote

The extremes evangelical parents will go to in order to forcefully mold their children seamlessly complements the extreme power granted to conservators.

summary: 

Quote

Spears has never identified as an #exvangelical and #FreeBritney is not about religion. But she is a former evangelical who has pushed against her controlling family, who has suffered immensely at the hands of evangelicals, and who is treading new spiritual paths (Kabbalah, Catholicism) to heal. You can’t get much more #exvangelical than that.

 

[Howl]

 

[Marmion]

On 9/17/2021 at 7:18 PM, Howl said:

R. L. Stollar's article at Religious Dispatches about Brittney Spears, her origins in Southern Baptist religious culture,  how the conservatorship is in essence patriarchal control is excellent. 

Why Free Britney is an Exvangelical Cause

Also, Lou Taylor, good grief. 

summary: 

 

This article you cited gives me a new possible implicit meaning to a couple of her songs I remember .  

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 Even back then she might have felt stifled by an overbearing father , or something to that effect . 

[Militant Fecundity]

I remember how, during that particular era, the media were strangely fixated on the purity of female celebrities. And tabloid pics of them climbing out of cars, pantiless in skirts. I’m sensing a theme. 

[Smee]

This week the sermon at my church (delivered by a good friend who I respect) mentioned "deconstruction" as exvangelicals refer to it. He cited Kevin Max as an example of someone who talked about deconstructing, and that it was "becoming common", cropping up a lot on youtube, including lots of well-known/famous Christians. Then he said "ultimately these were people who were not patient in waiting for God's promises" (the sermon was on James 5: 7-12 "patience in suffering") and basically urged us to stay the course. I know the sermon wasn't about exvangelicalism, and I didn't expect a proper response to it, but I'm disappointed with a) how easily he brushed aside the concerns these people have talked about and b) how quick he was to define them all as people who have fallen away/lost faith in Christ when many would still describe themselves as Christian.

I love the community and the people, but I continue to feel like the time has come for me to find a new church & denomination. It makes me sad, because I think these are good hearted people who on the whole are accepting and nonjudgmental and try to live out Jesus' call to help those in need. But it's a bit like when I left my husband earlier this year - we had so many strengths as a couple and were great co-parents, but the issues that couldn't be resolved were things I was no longer able to live with. And it hurt so much to leave.

[Jasmar]

I feel for you ❤️. It wasn’t any one huge thing that led me away from the church, but lots of smaller nudging like what you’re talking about. You’re right, it does hurt.

[Marmion]

12 hours ago, Smee said:

This week the sermon at my church (delivered by a good friend who I respect) mentioned "deconstruction" as exvangelicals refer to it. He cited Kevin Max as an example of someone who talked about deconstructing, and that it was "becoming common", cropping up a lot on youtube, including lots of well-known/famous Christians. Then he said "ultimately these were people who were not patient in waiting for God's promises" (the sermon was on James 5: 7-12 "patience in suffering") and basically urged us to stay the course. I know the sermon wasn't about exvangelicalism, and I didn't expect a proper response to it, but I'm disappointed with a) how easily he brushed aside the concerns these people have talked about and b) how quick he was to define them all as people who have fallen away/lost faith in Christ when many would still describe themselves as Christian.

I love the community and the people, but I continue to feel like the time has come for me to find a new church & denomination. It makes me sad, because I think these are good hearted people who on the whole are accepting and nonjudgmental and try to live out Jesus' call to help those in need. But it's a bit like when I left my husband earlier this year - we had so many strengths as a couple and were great co-parents, but the issues that couldn't be resolved were things I was no longer able to live with. And it hurt so much to leave.

In response to what was mentioned in the sermon , I would cite this Bible passage linked below , which refers to " super apostles " whom oppress their congregations .  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+11+%3A+5-21&version=NIV  These scriptures apply to abusive churches , according to this Christian anti-cult webpage linked below . https://www.cultwatch.com/saseries.html  So a Christian would certainly not be wrong to flee from such churches . 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:03 AM, Smee said:

This week the sermon at my church (delivered by a good friend who I respect) mentioned "deconstruction" as exvangelicals refer to it. He cited Kevin Max as an example of someone who talked about deconstructing, and that it was "becoming common", cropping up a lot on youtube, including lots of well-known/famous Christians. Then he said "ultimately these were people who were not patient in waiting for God's promises" (the sermon was on James 5: 7-12 "patience in suffering") and basically urged us to stay the course. I know the sermon wasn't about exvangelicalism, and I didn't expect a proper response to it, but I'm disappointed with a) how easily he brushed aside the concerns these people have talked about and b) how quick he was to define them all as people who have fallen away/lost faith in Christ when many would still describe themselves as Christian.

I love the community and the people, but I continue to feel like the time has come for me to find a new church & denomination. It makes me sad, because I think these are good hearted people who on the whole are accepting and nonjudgmental and try to live out Jesus' call to help those in need. But it's a bit like when I left my husband earlier this year - we had so many strengths as a couple and were great co-parents, but the issues that couldn't be resolved were things I was no longer able to live with. And it hurt so much to leave.

I miss being Catholic, but there were definite reasons I left. I wish there was an ex-Catholic movement like the exvangelicals.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[feministxtian]

11 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I miss being Catholic, but there were definite reasons I left. I wish there was an ex-Catholic movement like the exvangelicals.

there used to be an x-catholic thing online. I vaguely remember it from when I left 20 years ago. I'm at peace with my decision to leave and with the choice of faith expression I have now. I appreciate the education I got, hell, it's still useful 40 years later. Beyond that, although I left the RCC 20 years ago, I was finally able to completely close the door on that when the mother died. After the last epic fight with the priest over her funeral, I slammed that door shut and locked it and threw the keys away. 

[clueliss]

I believe I saw some “Catholic” organizations listed at gaycurch.org under Affirming Denominations

https://www.gaychurch.org/

Also, through this site which I found on the links of a tiktok creator (spiritalitTEA, she’s a witch/Christian witch) and discovered via find a local church - a local progressive Baptist church with a female pastor who uses pronouns in her email signature.

 

[DarkAnts]

On 5/18/2021 at 7:56 PM, Giraffe said:

As an exvangelical I'm so tired of the arguments "You just want to sin," and "you want pre/extramarital sex." They refuse to believe we could have problems with the theology itself and convince themselves it's just because we don't like the rules anymore. 

I see similar gaslighting in AA culture. Those who decide the program is not for them are told that it's their inner alcoholic talking. They need to ignore or they will have a relapse. It's really frustrating because you know deep down that it's not right for you but you second guess yourself due to fear.

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

I see similar gaslighting in AA culture. Those who decide the program is not for them are told that it's their inner alcoholic talking. They need to ignore or they will have a relapse. It's really frustrating because you know deep down that it's not right for you but you second guess yourself due to fear.

There has been pushback against AA and its approach to healing from substance abuse, including scientific studies of its efficacy.

[DarkAnts]

31 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

There has been pushback against AA and its approach to healing from substance abuse, including scientific studies of its efficacy.

The pushback is relatively new and not wide spread in the US. AA is still the prominent program used in the US. Many programs still use it (especially if the program accepts Medicaid). It's pushed a lot by the medical community. I am looking for a therapist and have had to pass on a few because they say that the only way to stay sober is with AA. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’ve had a lot of experience with AA from the outside looking in. And I think the program really doesn’t actually matter much. I think what works for people is a built in support system. When you are actively using substances, it can be incredibly isolating. Many people lose most of their friends and even family. Or their friends are also using and not interested in getting sober. So AA’s built in support system is what helps people stay sober. I really don’t think the 12 steps are a major factor. 

[Smee]

Yeah reading the history of AA and NA (for my PhD, which is in a creative field but focused on representations of addiction) it struck me early on how it spread in a very similar way to a religion, and the approach was never grounded in science or research. I have a friend who left NA after recovering from a heroin addiction because they told her she had to also be completely sober from alcohol, which she had never had any dependence issues with. On closer inspection, the whole “addictive personality” thing appears to be nonsense. But it took such a strong place in American culture (how many times has the “my name is ____ and I’m a _____” been used in movies, tv shows, general conversation and jokes?) and really influenced how Westerners in general think of addiction, so your average person on the street - and average doctor - assumes the approach is best practice without looking any deeper.

[Inthemadhouse]

Susanna Musser (The Blessing of Verity), is out of the closet and had a female partner.   This is not what I expected, to put it mildly.

[SassyPants]

20 hours ago, Inthemadhouse said:

Susanna Musser (The Blessing of Verity), is out of the closet and had a female partner.   This is not what I expected, to put it mildly.

WHAT?