The Exvangelical Movement

[Pecansforeveryone]

@formergothardite, yes it takes a lot of nerve. He should have started a You Tube channel or Podcast instead. Jon Steingard, a de-converted lead singer for a Christian group started a You Tube channel called The Wonder and the Mystery of Being. I get to enjoy it for free hough he does have a Patreon that I have not yet contributed to. Take notes Josh Harris. 

[hoipolloi]

So much for the New Josh Harris. 

For these people, it's the grift, and whatever lets them con others & make money is what they do.

 

[Antipatriarch]

17 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Jon Steingard, a de-converted lead singer for a Christian group started a You Tube channel called The Wonder and the Mystery of Being. I get to enjoy it for free hough he does have a Patreon that I have not yet contributed to.

Jon is great! I wasn't familiar with him or Hawk Nelson, but his writing since his deconversion has been fantastic. He's clearly very thoughtful, cares about people and is eager to help them, tries to build bridges where he can, etc. He's very up-front that this is a work in progress for him, and he doesn't have it all figured out yet.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Antipatriarch

[Pecansforeveryone]

@Antipatriarch, I wasn't familiar with Hawk Nelson either. I have heard he he was a generation after the Newsboys, Casting Crowns, Stephen Curtis Chapman, etc who I used to listen to. Plus Jon seemed to indicate Hawk Nelson was less overtly Christian than other boys. I understand leaving open a way to contribute. If Joshua Harris had written a memoir about de-conversion, I wouldn't have expected him to give away 100% of the advance and proceeds. This, however seems 100% in the vein of "have I got something to sell you". 

[Alisamer]

19 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Damn that takes a lot of nerve! He wants to make money saving people from the very thing he sold them. 

Well, the former guy in the White House spent the entire time there creating problems and then declaring he had fixed this problem! That he totally didn't create! So it tracks that people would suddenly try to make money fixing the problems they made money causing.

So I'm not surprised. 

[meep]

Hawk Nelson was the "cool" Christian band to listen to circa 2006. Or so said the kids at my christian camp. I never got into them. 

[Howl]

I have family living about two hours away. In the past, there was a part of the drive where NPR faded out and the only radio was the Christian station.  I'd listen, but every. single. song. seemed to sound exactly the same with the same production values. It drove me crazy.  These days I might catch a snippet of Christian music and same same.  

Now I almost always have a murder mystery to listen to.  Still old school, because I get the ones from the library on CD. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Howl

[louisa05]

Harris canceled the whole thing. 

[Antipatriarch]

3 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Harris canceled the whole thing. 

Thanks; do you have a link? I'd like to read his rationale, apology, or whatever. It was a bad idea.

[Howl]

3 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Harris canceled the whole thing. 

Yes, there is some serious blow back happening on twitter.  Partly because apparently he used a woman's material without consent or attribution. 

Here's an unroll of Jamie Lee Finch's thread. She is steamed about Joshua Harris and other mean stealing the credit for her work.  She does reference Harris' apology at the end. 

I’m finished shutting up about it. I’m exhausted of watching white men with money do the bare minimum (but hire a stellar marketing team) and succeed at gaining the trust of vulnerable people.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Howl

[louisa05]

58 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

Thanks; do you have a link? I'd like to read his rationale, apology, or whatever. It was a bad idea.

Insta post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CSiC-KCp2XO/?utm_medium=copy_link

Same post is on Facebook. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Same post is on Facebook. 

The number of leghumpers giving him attaboys on those posts is stunning.

[formergothardite]

I’m sure he will be back with another scheme soon. 

[Howl]

5 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

The number of leghumpers giving him attaboys on those posts is stunning.

I'm glad I saw Jamie Lee Finch's twitter thread first; there's a LOT of legitimate righteous anger there. In Harris' apology he realizes he stepped on his own dick big time. Hopefully a learning experience, but it shows to a certain extent that he's still operating in a bubble. 

 "I am also going to shelve the resource list on deconstruction. I didn’t get permission from the creators to promote their work alongside my course, and I apologize for not getting consent first."

 

 

[erunerune]

Shannon Harris Bonne (ex-wife of Harris) will have a book coming out in 2023 currently titled Braver Things. I wish I could pre-order today. I can’t wait to pay full price and read the shit out of it. Her IG has some pretty interesting & insightful stuff.

Edited August 14, 2021 by erunerune

[MamaJunebug]

So, where do I go now?

I’ve read Jesus and John Wayne and The Making if Biblical Womanhood. 

I’m in to rejecting all the bunk. The church has followed the culture.  Were it able to swim against the tide, truly great things might happen. 
 

But meanwhile, where is this aging cradle Lutheran to go?  Traditional Jewish attitudes on living life resound, but I can’t begin to keep Sabbath and kosher — and no more ok with male-only leadership. Reform Judaism and liberal Lutheranism IME lack the hymnody I need. Yes, need. 
 

PCUSA Presbyterians have female leaders and good - even great - music. 
 

Hm!

[ I ❤️ FJ so much. Where else could I explore topics like this amongst friends?]

Edited August 15, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[Howl]

Check out Jim Rigby, the pastor for St. Andrew's church here in Austin (Presbyterian, but somehow manages to transcend denominations).  He's also on facebook, but I couldn't get his posts to open to day. 

staopen.org/staff/jim-rigby/  and there's a link to his sermons: 

"I have been pastor here at St. Andrew’s for over 25 years. I have a love of world religions and a passion for social justice. My hope for ministry is to help people discover the deeper aspects of their own lives, to share life together with other seekers, and then join together to be a catalyst for making our world happier and safer for the vulnerable ones of our world."

[danvillebelle]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, MamaJunebug said:

PCUSA Presbyterians have female leaders and good - even great - music. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd give them a try.  I'm biased as that was the original denomination I came out of and I have close relatives who were/are PCUSA members and choir directors, but yeah.  They're generally a good lot these days.

ETA:  A local PCUSA congregation had a booth at the Pride Festival two years ago, which made me ridiculously happy.  In East Texas, it's no small thing for a church to publicly stand up for the LGBTQ+ community.

Edited August 19, 2021 by danvillebelle

[Howl]

Also Unitarians! 

[MamaJunebug]

23 minutes ago, Howl said:

Also Unitarians! 

I appreciate that thought!  I attended a workshop snd a service - great folks, great purpose - but again, the music.  Hit -and-miss. But yeah, I need to re-visit when things open up! 

3 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

  In East Texas, it's no small thing for a church to publicly stand up for the LGBTQ+ community.

Sheldon Cooper’s mom wouldn’t know what to do! LOL! I remember, I did attend a service of commitment between a nice couple at a local PCUSA. YES! I’ll start my survey this weekend. ❤️ Thank you, all! 

[meep]

It looks like the Harris boys are learning how fast news gets around nowadays. This isn't the 90's/00s anymore. It's not as easy to hide your shenanigans. 

[hoipolloi]

The CT podcast on Mars Hill has a bonus, eighth episode featuring an interview with Josh Harris. The podcast attempts to deal with the phenomenon of evangelical celebrities and their influence/blame/role in abusive churches.

Quote

In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, we’ll explore Josh’s story as a contemporary of Mark Driscoll, someone who was his polar opposite in temperament, and whose struggles in ministry led to a divergent outcome. We’ll talk about faith, doubt, and celebrity, and discuss how Christians might think about their own doubts and deconstruction, recognizing them as a normal part of the Christian life.

Not quite finished listening to it, but it's worthwhile.

[erunerune]

Totally interesting listen, thanks!

[closetcagebaby]

19 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

The CT podcast on Mars Hill has a bonus, eighth episode featuring an interview with Josh Harris. The podcast attempts to deal with the phenomenon of evangelical celebrities and their influence/blame/role in abusive churches.

Not quite finished listening to it, but it's worthwhile.

Listened to it this afternoon. Thought it was interesting but I still think Josh Harris is a little too navel gazing in a way that doesn’t quite sit right with me. The podcast in general is really well done and an interesting perspective even if it’s not one I share. 

[MamaJunebug]

Just going to leave this here:

Out of curiosity, last week I turned on the ultra-conservative Lutheran pastor’s radio show.  He was interviewing the President of the LC-MS.

The Prez gave a brief history of the various Lutheran groups, noting, “The 2 other church bodies merged and immediately ordained women...”

I said aloud, “Oh. The. Humanity. Women pastors.” And I laughed.

He further said that sexual activity, anywhere outside of marriage, is the source of all our ills.

I thought about the New Testament statement that greed (“love of money”) is the* root of evil … and I switched the stations.

* The root or a root of all kinds of evil, or of all evil, depending on the translation. 

Greed is wanting more than you need, being willing to do anything to get your neighbor’s stuff that you don’t need.

To satisfy greed, people steal, malign others’ reputations, physically hurt or even kill others.  There are 3 commandments broken, right there 

Further: Greed begets covetousness  two commandments broken. As we number them, anyway.

Finally: Greed places property snd power before G-d.  And Commandment #1 in almost all numbering systems, is to love G-d above all, and to reject idols  

Sex outside of marriage - oh, just say it, Mr.  President: Sex outside traditional,  heterosexual marriage. 

Will always love & be grateful for the good things in my (former) church. And on that positive note, I thank you for letting me tell the story of this moment in my life.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by MamaJunebug