Michaela & Brandon 6: She Is an LPN and He Is Boring.....

[just_ordinary]

What I find problematic is not only the glossing over the side effects of the egg retrieval but the hard facts of success. Yes, that’s often a risk people desperate for a child are happy to take. But the whole, just freeze your eggs and do it later completely ignores that the success rate is still only 32% if you are UNDER 35. 25% 35-37 and only 19% 38-39. You can imagine how the list goes on. That’s the official NHS stats from 2019 and are at quite the contrast to the up to 55% success change some private providers promise. I am inclined to take the numbers of the people depending on selling me their product with a huge grain of salt. IFV is not just some easy mostly successful medical alternative. It’s a hard journey and has often enough no happy ending. 

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, just_ordinary said:

What I find problematic is not only the glossing over the side effects of the egg retrieval but the hard facts of success. Yes, that’s often a risk people desperate for a child are happy to take. But the whole, just freeze your eggs and do it later completely ignores that the success rate is still only 32% if you are UNDER 35. 25% 35-37 and only 19% 38-39. You can imagine how the list goes on. That’s the official NHS stats from 2019 and are at quite the contrast to the up to 55% success change some private providers promise. I am inclined to take the numbers of the people depending on selling me their product with a huge grain of salt. IFV is not just some easy mostly successful medical alternative. It’s a hard journey and has often enough no happy ending. 

A relative was in a small online support group for people pursuing IVF. Her first attempt was successful (bouncing baby is now 13 months old) but she experienced some guilt because the first attempt for most of the others failed. Until she started the regimen, I had no idea how physically tough it is for the person being implanted. 

[EmiSue]

4 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

A relative was in a small online support group for people pursuing IVF. Her first attempt was successful (bouncing baby is now 13 months old) but she experienced some guilt because the first attempt for most of the others failed. Until she started the regimen, I had no idea how physically tough it is for the person being implanted. 

I've randomly started following a few accounts on IG where women detail their IVF journeys. I dealt with infertility but miraculously got pregnant the month we were supposed to start ivf but had to postpone. (I will never take that for granted, trust me.) The protocols these women follow when they've had multiple retrievals that yielded few to no eggs or multiple transfers that didn't implant or ended in miscarriage are just excruciating--restrictive diets, tons of pills and shots for months, driving or even flying hours for specialized treatments--all for the CHANCE of a baby. If a woman like Michaela looks at that and says no thanks, I don't blame her in the least.

[front hugs > duggs]

We're in the middle of our first IUI cycle this month, and it's been fine apart from the mental stress of it all. I personally don't think I want to venture down the IVF path if it gets there, because of how invasive it is. Which makes me confused, because pregnancy itself is invasive and I get that of course.

I personally would have started the adoption process by now, but my husband and I agreed to try IUI first, and I was on board with that as well.

[irish_dancing_canadian]

I feel bad for Michaela in a way, no matter what miscarriages are heartbreaking. While I do not wish for any child to be born into that cult, if M and B were to one day have a miracle child, then I would hope that the baby is born a boy. Always better to be a boy in that cult, which is sad to say but true. 

[medimus]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:38 PM, just_ordinary said:

What I find problematic is not only the glossing over the side effects of the egg retrieval but the hard facts of success. Yes, that’s often a risk people desperate for a child are happy to take. But the whole, just freeze your eggs and do it later completely ignores that the success rate is still only 32% if you are UNDER 35. 25% 35-37 and only 19% 38-39. You can imagine how the list goes on. That’s the official NHS stats from 2019 and are at quite the contrast to the up to 55% success change some private providers promise. I am inclined to take the numbers of the people depending on selling me their product with a huge grain of salt. IFV is not just some easy mostly successful medical alternative. It’s a hard journey and has often enough no happy ending. 

This stuff drives me nuts. There are tons of ways for clinics to fudge their succes rates. Because when people see success rates they they naturally think this is the percentage of people who came to the clinic and went home with a live baby. But this is almost never the number you see. The starting point could be all the people who come, only those selected to start, only those with eggs retrieved or even only those with embryos created. And the outcome could be live baby, pregnancy on ultrasound at 12 weeks or at 6 weeks, pregnancy test positive. So tons of ways to fudge it. 

Also the pushing of the egg freezing yhing makes me furious, because the success rates are not high and it gives a lot of false hope.

[medimus]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:38 PM, just_ordinary said:

What I find problematic is not only the glossing over the side effects of the egg retrieval but the hard facts of success. Yes, that’s often a risk people desperate for a child are happy to take. But the whole, just freeze your eggs and do it later completely ignores that the success rate is still only 32% if you are UNDER 35. 25% 35-37 and only 19% 38-39. You can imagine how the list goes on. That’s the official NHS stats from 2019 and are at quite the contrast to the up to 55% success change some private providers promise. I am inclined to take the numbers of the people depending on selling me their product with a huge grain of salt. IFV is not just some easy mostly successful medical alternative. It’s a hard journey and has often enough no happy ending. 

This stuff drives me nuts. There are tons of ways for clinics to fudge their succes rates. Because when people see success rates they they naturally think this is the percentage of people who came to the clinic and went home with a live baby. But this is almost never the number you see. The starting point could be all the people who come, only those selected to start, only those with eggs retrieved or even only those with embryos created. And the outcome could be live baby, pregnancy on ultrasound at 12 weeks or at 6 weeks, pregnancy test positive. So tons of ways to fudge it. 

Also the pushing of the egg freezing yhing makes me furious, because the success rates are not high and it gives a lot of false hope.

[indianabones]

18 minutes ago, medimus said:

Also the pushing of the egg freezing yhing makes me furious, because the success rates are not high and it gives a lot of false hope.

I just watched The Mindy Project in its entirety, and for a season or two there was a subplot about Mindy starting a business where she recruited college students to come to her fertility practice in NYC during their spring breaks so they could freeze their eggs.

The whole thing drove me crazy (it doesn't help that I'm the kind of person who watches TV/movies and spends half the time thinking about filming locations and casting decisions and logistics, etc...) What kind of parents are okay with shelling out $30,000 for their healthy teenage daughter to freeze her eggs? Does the show really expect anyone to believe it only takes a week for the entire process, start to finish? And then there's the part where they make it sound like a guarantee that freezing your eggs as a college undergrad means that you'll end up with a healthy baby by the time you're 40.

I need to work on my suspension of belief, I guess!

[Granwych]

When I read about Paris Hilton bragging about all the eggs she’d had frozen,  how s

[Tdoc72]

20 hours ago, medimus said:

 

Also the pushing of the egg freezing yhing makes me furious, because the success rates are not high and it gives a lot of false hope.

Not to mention, if you don’t implant and you consider your embryo a “baby” (YMMV. I don’t consider them a baby.  More like the possibility of a baby.), then you have to pay big $ to keep them frozen forever. 

[Granwych]

23 hours ago, Granwych said:

When I read about Paris Hilton bragging about all the eggs she’d had frozen,  how s

How she’d frozen so many eggs, her seeming nonchalance about the whole deal of surrogacy and saving/storing eggs really rubbed me the wrong way. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Granwych said:

How she’d frozen so many eggs, her seeming nonchalance about the whole deal of surrogacy and saving/storing eggs really rubbed me the wrong way. 

I am not a Paris hater. So this isn’t BEC. But I was rubbed the wrong way that yet again, a very rich person used a surrogate. Paris just had a little boy through one. It really bothers me how rich people can just outsource pregnancy and birth. Kim Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and I am predicting Kourtney Kardashian will end up using a surrogate to have a baby with Travis Barker. It reminds me of all the rich celebrities that bought babies back before IVF was a thing. Joan Crawford bought her twin daughters through Georgia Tan! The baby broker who kidnapped some of her babies she sold to rich people. 

[raayx01]

13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I am not a Paris hater. So this isn’t BEC. But I was rubbed the wrong way that yet again, a very rich person used a surrogate. Paris just had a little boy through one. It really bothers me how rich people can just outsource pregnancy and birth. Kim Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and I am predicting Kourtney Kardashian will end up using a surrogate to have a baby with Travis Barker. It reminds me of all the rich celebrities that bought babies back before IVF was a thing. Joan Crawford bought her twin daughters through Georgia Tan! The baby broker who kidnapped some of her babies she sold to rich people. 

I get it in cases like Maria Menounos case where she's b been trying forever to have a kid and now she cant have one because of her brain tumor. But in Cases like Khloe Kardashian and Priyanka Chopra Jonas I didn't get why they chose to go that route and found It ridiculous when Priyanka Chopra said she didn't have time to be pregnant. Time to be pregnant? I dont think Ive ever seen her in a movie, so what is she doing with all this time of her's. But at the end of the day it's there choice but It is becoming a trend amongst. celebrities. 

[libgirl2]

18 minutes ago, raayx01 said:

I get it in cases like Maria Menounos case where she's b been trying forever to have a kid and now she cant have one because of her brain tumor. But in Cases like Khloe Kardashian and Priyanka Chopra Jonas I didn't get why they chose to go that route and found It ridiculous when Priyanka Chopra said she didn't have time to be pregnant. Time to be pregnant? I dont think Ive ever seen her in a movie, so what is she doing with all this time of her's. But at the end of the day it's there choice but It is becoming a trend amongst. celebrities. 

Well, yes, if someone has issues that prevent them from carrying the pregnancy or other health issues. I though Kim K. had some health issues but I could be wrong. So PC was too busy to be pregnant? How do you know you won't be "too busy" to be a parent? 

Edited February 9, 2023 by libgirl2

[Jana814]

My friend had all of her kids through a surrogate. She has boy/girl twins & a younger son. Her older son is disabled & honestly it’s sad that he is considering all she had to do to have them. Like I have said we live in New Jersey & surrogacy is illegal unless it’s with a friend or family member. If it was legal in our state she probably would have asked a friend of hers to do it (she did ask this friend but her friend’s husband wasn’t comfortable with her doing it). 
A celebrity using one goes to show how having money can get you whatever you want/need. I heard Pryonka Jonas mention not having the time but I also think she has some other issues & that was the reason for the surrogate. I’m so happy for Maria Menounos because she has talked about having a child for years. It was put on hold because of her brain tumor & because her mother was very sick. 

[JMO]

I don't know about all the surrogates, but sometimes it's because they are using donor eggs from a younger woman and also a younger surrogate to prevent health issues. Kim K had endometrial issues from one of her pregnancies and was told she shouldn't or couldn't get pregnant again. If Kourtney got pregnant/used a surrogate I would believe that she used donor eggs unless she said otherwise. Priyanka is 40 as well.  But they all couldn't do any of this without endless money to bankroll it. Their privilege allows them to have kids at all. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by JMO

[LanaBanana]

No one is entitled to a baby or to use another woman's body as an incubator. There's a reason many countries outlaw commercial surrogacy & it's disturbing to see how commonplace it has become in the entertainment world. 

[Jana814]

12 minutes ago, LanaBanana said:

No one is entitled to a baby or to use another woman's body as an incubator. There's a reason many countries outlaw commercial surrogacy & it's disturbing to see how commonplace it has become in the entertainment world. 

I think actress Dedra Hall was one of the first actresses to say she used a surrogate. They did a made for TV movie about & she played herself. She had issues but I think it was her eggs. 

[libgirl2]

15 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I think actress Dedra Hall was one of the first actresses to say she used a surrogate. They did a made for TV movie about & she played herself. She had issues but I think it was her eggs. 

Again, it isn't necessarily a bad thing for some. I think when something like this becomes a fad or a trend it starts to get a bit hinky. 

Wasn't there a case where a surrogate decided they wanted to keep the baby? It was ages ago. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by libgirl2

[Jana814]

27 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Wasn't there a case where a surrogate decided they wanted to keep the baby? It was ages ago. 

Yup the baby M case. It was in New Jersey that is why it’s illegal to hire someone to be one unless it’s a family member in Jersey although I know several people who used them.  The case is from the early 1980’s & the surrogate mother was also the biological mother, now for example in the case of my friend her kids are biologically hers & her husbands because they used IVF. 

[libgirl2]

13 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Yup the baby M case. It was in New Jersey that is why it’s illegal to hire someone to be one unless it’s a family member in Jersey although I know several people who used them.  The case is from the early 1980’s & the surrogate mother was also the biological mother, now for example in the case of my friend her kids are biologically hers & her husbands because they used IVF. 

That's the case! I remember that. They even did a TV movie, I just couldn't think of the name. I'm going to google it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Surrogacy is like most things when it comes to the rich and the poor in the US. The rich can afford what everyone else cannot. Which means they can use their wealth to exploit others. It happens in practically every aspect of life. The rich live completely different lives than the rest of us. And Kim K says people just need to get off their asses and work. Mmkay.

[Jana814]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

That's the case! I remember that. They even did a TV movie, I just couldn't think of the name. I'm going to google it. 

It was the baby M case. The actors to played the couples are still acting. Brian Austin Greene was in it (I think it was one of his first acting jobs). 

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Surrogacy is like most things when it comes to the rich and the poor in the US. The rich can afford what everyone else cannot. Which means they can use their wealth to exploit others. It happens in practically every aspect of life. The rich live completely different lives than the rest of us. And Kim K says people just need to get off their asses and work. Mmkay.

And she made her fortune showing hers..... 🙄

Money talks. It is like abortion, don't tell me if you are wealthy and you live in one of those red states, you won't be able to get one. Please! 

2 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

It was the baby M case. The actors to played the couples are still acting. Brian Austin Greene was in it (I think it was one of his first acting jobs). 

JoBeth Williams, Dabney Coleman and Robin Strasser (OLTL Dorian!!) 

[Keys]

I’ve been following the story of a young woman who was born without a uterus. She was able to join a research study in the US where she received a uterus through organ donation. She’s now on immunosuppressive medication so her body doesn’t reject it, and is undergoing IVF/embryo transfer to get pregnant with a baby that is biologically hers/her partner’s. She’s pretty open about her story. She said it’s always been her dream to experience pregnancy, but also, surrogacy was out of the question due to the expense (I think she said it would have been around $100k?). Found that pretty stunning that having a uterus transplant and all the associated procedures/meds/high risk pregnancy was more accessible/viable than surrogacy.