I'm a Reformed Person in VF/ATI circles. Ask Me Anything.

[skankbiscuit]

Is Kelly pregnant again (I'll bet she is)

[luckylibrarian]

Well, no sleep for me tonight. This is too good to miss.

Thank you for answering questions and being honest about what you know and don't know. I'm disappointed you don't know anything about the Maxwells but not surprised. You seem to have too much personality for them.

A few other posters have mentioned Brantley Disharoon, and I just wanted to ask that again:

Do you know Brantley? Are the past accusations against him well known in VF circles? What do people think of him?

[Caxpax]

Does Dougie have any relationship with the Bayly Bros.? Do they fit in at all with the VF crowd?

Oh, and have you ever met Kelly Crawford- is she as bitchy and evil in person as she seems on her blog?

[Lillybee]

Knight, thank you. You rock.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

I'm trying to put think how to word this. Is it possible that Doug purposely makes statement with double meanings to see who will understand? You probably didn't approve and let him know what he said was wrong. He realized that you weren't going to be an easy victim and tried to pass his statements off as a mistake. Is that possible? Doug hasn't spent his entire life being sheltered so I find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't understand the hidden meaning behind his words.

Do you know the Harris brothers of The Rebelution? Or do they run in a different circle?

To point 1; It's possible. I considered that after many things I read here at FJ, but I just can't imagine it. Watching his interaction, hearing his discussions and having heard multiple accounts from interns who walked by and saw him through a door way kissing his wife, lead me to believe otherwise. I think Doug is possibly the real deal. The question mark is that I've not spent a huge amount of time with him in a more private context. He has to stay pretty true to the banner statements, or he would get called out. In a one on one setting, he might speak differently.

I do know them, though they run in a far different circle. I think Josh Phillips is pretty good friends with them, but they know a lot more people from the semi-charismatic circles. Several of my Patrick Henry buddies know them, and one friend of mine helped host one of the Rebelution conferences. I've read their books, and generally liked their message to homeschoolers. But very few of the Vision Forum community would support a Harris tour event, because of the music and 'modern' feel of the whole thing. It's a shame, because VF could use a dose of youthful charisma.

[Guest Anonymous]

Paragraph 2. Man. I do not get him either. He's aggressive, a little crazy, and wants everything to be more like the Marine Corps. Including vacation trips to Europe. What I can tell you though, is that Kelly could have had anyone, and she chose Peter, knowing what that would mean. She was well aware of his crazy, and she's crazy too. (I don't mean literally crazy here, though I do mean fanatical). She wouldn't have gone to Europe if she didn't want to, I know that much about her. She's a very, very tough woman. I have sensed a little trouble in paradise at times, but for the most part they're a power couple. I wonder if she regrets him, but she doesn't seem to ever give that signal. I know if I were a woman though, I would find a way to chemically castrate him.

This is exactly the way I have always imagined Petey. His Bradrick.org endeavor is a whole new dimension of a scary, wrong, scam. At least we got him to change his ill-advised logo.

I'll never understand why lovely Kelly picked the big ginger spider, especially if she had as many options as you say.

[tehgoobster]

Anna is a bit more relaxed on a personal level, and isn't looking for somebody super driven, but she is very image conscious. She is responsible for the sudden rise in fashion quality of herself, Elizabeth, and several other women in the VF circles like Lourdes. Elizabeth is much less image conscious, but is extremely driven and snooty. Snooty might just be a cover for afraid or a low self image. From what I've seen and what others have told me, she is going to need somebody who is more like Doug Phillips in personality and tone. High energy, lots of show - A trophy leader. Elizabeth is constantly being reigned in by Anna.

1. Reigned in? How so? Elizabeth has said she was the rebel in the family. Do you think that this is still the case? You've discussed their personalities a little, but they've always seemed very similar to me. How would you describe their personalities in general? They also come across as really serious most of the time. Are they funny in person? Who do you think they'll end up marrying? My money's on David Noor, John Moore, or JT Phillips.

2. Why aren't Lourdes and Andrew Torres married yet? They are so good-looking! Why aren't other fundies all over that?

3. What's the story with Nathaniel Darnell? Why isn't he married yet? He is cute, but he almost looks kind of ... sad, I guess.

4. What would happen if someone was secretly gay in VF/ATI circles? Do you suspect that there are closeted fundies? (And no, you don't have to name any names. I don't really think that Doug is gay, actually, in case you thought that I was referring to him.)

5. What do people like Doug, the Botkins, etc. think of FJ?

6. Do you think any fundies from well-known families will ever break away?

Um, Knight? You are AMAZING for answering everyone's questions! You are officially my favorite fundie!

[MamaJunebug]

I thought of 2 more. I'm one of the old ladies of FJ, and as such people like Mrs. Deborah Brown and Mrs. Cheryl Serven intrigue me. Anything you know of those two ladies, I'd love to hear. (My personal impression after having surfed a lot and actually observed Cheryl in-person briefly is that Deborah's kind of a ditz and Cheryl's pretty imperious.)

Oh, and I'm another who finds the whole Niednagel/Thomas/Flynn family too too perfect. is Jordan swishy? Are Marscel and Micaiah anywhere near ready to start their own lives? I can't figure out how old they are. Melissa and her mother and her mother-in-law all appear to be iron-hand-in-velvet-gloves types. I wouldn't want to cross any of the three. ;)

Thanks again!

[emmiedahl]

I am really curious as to how "on the radar" FreeJinger and other fundie watch groups are. Like, are they aware of us? Are they actually sending people to read here? Somewhere in between?

[theologygeek]

Out of all the Duggars, if any were to leave that lifestyle, which one do you think it would be? And why?

[skankbiscuit]

Out of all the Duggars, if any were to leave that lifestyle, which one do you think it would be? And why?

Good one....

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Knight, what made you decide to take the somewhat dangerous step of inviting questions from us?

Do you go to a home church or a church in a building?

Do the girls you know (other than sisters) talk about much besides cooking, sewing, babies, goats, and Elsie Dinsmore-ish books? I always had trouble with certain homeschool girls getting any sense of their individual interests.

I believe you when you keep saying nice things about the people you know, since obviously they are your friends. I hope you stick around and survive the first blast of questions then participate in some of our other threads, BTW. As someone who grew up nondenominational, leaning quite fundie, six-day Creationist and all that, I do understand what you mean when you talk about people being intellectual in those belief systems. Some people just love learning – I have since stepped out of thought boundaries I had not realized I put around myself and found a whole new world of things to learn about and it has been incredibly wonderful.

1. Misconceptions. I saw some truth and a lot of dangerous speculation about people who I believe are my friends. I don't mind a communist being called a communist, or a pig being called a pig, but a communist being called a nazi and a pig being called a trout doesn't set well. I figured that out of everybody I know, I'm the least biased in either direction and have no vested interested in the success or failure of either movement. I'm a Christian, I believe in furthering the gospel, but I don't believe that gospel requires a certain denomination or even necessarily a certain doctrine. I'm a reformed guy who believes he will see at least some of his Catholic friends in heaven.

2. We've done both as a family, but home-churching just hasn't provided for us what scripture says a church is supposed to provide.

3. I rarely hear girls discuss those topics, except for really young girls. 3-6. Older than that, they're talking about movies, history, each other, families in the church, politics, etc. It really depends on what their family is like. If the family loves musical theater, the girls will be involved and talk about that. If it's photography, they'll talk about photoshop and their macbooks. But depending on who's in the conversational circle, they'll shift their conversation slightly so as not to offend anybody from a differing family philosophy. Some families are the stereotype, most are not, and some are more diverse still, especially in the ATI circles. For the record, I have heard the Botkin sisters semi-bash the Elsie books, and I know Jeff and John Moore hate them.

4. I've been mostly around secular people for the last eight years. I used to try to spend more time away from these circles. What astounds me is that the more I spend time around the people in my community, the more I want to be back with the ATI and VF crowd. More VF than ATI for sure. Even though I run into the nasty ones, I want to spend time around the great ones. Some of the people are just good, honest, wholesome people. They love the lifestyle, they love the theology, and they love what it brings to be unified like that.

I keep a very open mind, but I love the Bible. I believe it's the most wonderful and interesting compilation of writings in all of culture, and I do believe it has divine authority. But I do realize that faith without works is no faith at all, as James said. So a Christian without Love is a Christian without Christ, and a Christian without Christ is merely a radical leeching energy from any source available. In America radicals use Christianity, in the Middle East they use Islam. I believe in being radical, but I don't believe in being a leech. I believe in a living faith, and a loving faith.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

What are Doug Phillips's sons like?

Josh is like Doug, Justice is less so. Josh is high energy and likes to be the star of the show. Justice is calm, humble, honest, and reserved. The others are pretty young and I haven't been around much as they've gotten older. But I remember Providence was very, very high energy, bouncing off the walls every time I saw him.

[finleeport]

Hey Knight, Nice to meet you here. I was wondering, from your experience in Vision Forum and with Doug Philips, and from your perspective, the claim that women should not work or go to school but only be homemakers and godly women, was there a part of misogyny in all that?

Didn't they ever think of Deborah from the book of Judges, who was a political and spiritual leader? and other women like Hulda the prophetess, Judith, Jael, the Virgin Mary, Priscilla and Aquila the missionaries?

Sorry for repeating this but I really want to know? also what do they think of Catholics, Eastern Orthodox or Christians who venerate/honor the Virgin Mary?

[doggie]

this is like everyone waiting for a turn at santa's knee. santa I want santa I want.it is a bit pathetic when adult woman are reduced to begging children.

[Bookworm89]

This thread is awesome! On page 8 and need to get some sleep but will be checking this thread first thing in the morning...when I should be writing a paper. Oh well, this is more entertaining.

[pomology]

Ha ha! I'm proud of myself for laughing at this.

So, since you clearly understood the Arrested Development references... how in tune are VF and ATI types with pop culture? Do they know anything about current movies, TV shows, music? If so, what's popular?

[Karsaroni]

Oh man!! I've read every single word of this thread and I just can't get enough! God Bless you Knight!! :) This really is fascinating stuff!

I'd love to know if you've met the Morton's and if the VF girls are mourning the engagement of Cleveland Morton like so many of us at FJ are? LOL! Surely we're not the only ones who swoon over him.

Thanks for all the great insight. It actually relieves me a little that although I don't agree with the VF theology these details, for me, seem to humanize these people a little more. Especially the Botkins!

[KnightInShiningAmore]

I'm curious about Peter Bradrick also. He seems like an inconsiderate jerk to his wife.

How close is Peter to Doug? I don't mean to put words in your mouth but those two seem a bit overly friendly.

Between the Botkins and the Philips, which ones are the better parents?

I don't think Peter is that great. He is a bit of a jerk, but she knew that. She could have chosen anyone, she chose Peter. I'm told he's a tender as he is tough, but I think he could use a little less tough. It seems forced to me. Overall though, I don't think she's unhappy, but I would love to know.

Phillips. Because he lets his kids be kids, he lets them have a childhood of imagination and roaring fun, and he takes care of them like a Dad who absolutely wants to spoil his kids. Beall adores him, very clearly from their interaction, which is proof of his parenting to some degree. No mother loves an abuser, not sincerely. She can love a man who abuses her, but not her kids. Botkins are a bit colder and more academic in their approach. It's hard to say though, because I've only known the Botkins as adults, where I knew the Phillips children as much smaller munchkins.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

By the way, you have good taste in having a crush on Lourdes. She is gorgeous!

Darn you Mr. Knight. I was going to spend the night reading the book, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. You're just waaa....aaay more interesting. :lol:

It's a good book though! Larsson is a master and you would be denying yourself a timeless pleasure to skip over his works. My posts will be here anytime. Your imagination is better captured by a master than a forum-goer.

[emmiedahl]

this is like everyone waiting for a turn at santa's knee. santa I want santa I want.it is a bit pathetic when adult woman are reduced to begging children.

I say this as nicely as possible: fuck off.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Is Joshua Titus as uppity as he looks?

To strangers and the majority of the followers of Vision Forum, pretty much. To 'ATI people', a thousand times yes, but to his friends and even people he's met a few times before, not at all. Very sweet guy. Just a kid, but he wants so bad to be a grown man! A lot of his edge comes from his love for Errol Flynn movies. He wants to be that swashbuckling guy, and like his dad, loves fantasy. But he is growing out of that recently.

[skankbiscuit]

It's a good book though! Larsson is a master and you would be denying yourself a timeless pleasure to skip over his works. My posts will be here anytime. Your imagination is better captured by a master than a forum-goer.

You are becoming more attractive by the minute, Knight :lol:

[skankbiscuit]

I say this as nicely as possible: fuck off.

I think I love you emmiedahl :dance:

[Guest Anonymous]

I say this as nicely as possible: fuck off.

Once again emmie earns this old lady's respect. :clap:

edited for spelling naturally