I'm a Reformed Person in VF/ATI circles. Ask Me Anything.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

I dont think he will answer anything I ask.

But anyhow, mr knight, do you think it is weird and even creepy for daughters to shave their fathers?

Unfathomably weird and creepy, without a doubt. Not only is it a little crazy and a lot awkward to begin with, it's an obvious public image nightmare. This is an example of Doug's naivete though. He honestly thought it would be charming and touching, as it no doubt would have been a hundred years ago. He lives in the past, too much for me.

[Guest Anonymous]

Knowing lots of facts does not an intellectual make.

I am so sad I have to go to bed. Can't wait to get up in the morning and check out this thread! I hope Mr. Knight is for real. I love men who love to dish the dirt!

[demgirl]

This is seriously awesome. But really, please. Oh, please. Peter Bradrick. What. Is. The. Deal.? I've been dying to ask someone like you that question for years. Honestly, I appreciate you coming to answer these questions. I can't lie -- this is fascinating!

[skankbiscuit]

Is Joshua Titus as uppity as he looks?

[Guest Anonymous]

Still no word on oral sex...

[skankbiscuit]

Peter Bradrick, yes yes please!

[Witsec1]

What wine goes with popcorn?

Do you know anything about Doug Wilson and his crowd? How do the 2 Dougs relate? Was there any controversy when elders in Wilson's church arranged a marriage between a young woman and a convicted pedophile?

And do you know Brantley Disharoon?

[treemom]

Unfathomably weird and creepy, without a doubt. Not only is it a little crazy and a lot awkward to begin with, it's an obvious public image nightmare. This is an example of Doug's naivete though. He honestly thought it would be charming and touching, as it no doubt would have been a hundred years ago. He lives in the past, too much for me.

My husband's grandmother died a couple years ago but she would 100 this year and I assure you she would have found it creepy.

I have to assume he has some sort of mental disability or social awkwardness or something to not understand how creepy and well, sexual it seems.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Hello Knightinshingingamore. It's good to see you here 8-)

I have a serious question that might sound like I'm making fun of you but I'm not.

Does Doug Philips realize that some of his actions and the manner in which he writes sounds feminine to an outsider? For example, writing about a sweaty, manly romp sounded like someone making fun of a gay porno to many of us. I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ass with this question, I promise. I'm serious.

Will any of the Botkins of Philip children join the military? Many of my family members have been in the military. My sister served several tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. My husband served a tour in Afghanistan. My brother was in the 82nd Airborne and my dad died in Vietnam. The Vision Forum glorification of military service without actually having served any time in the military sometimes rubs me raw.

Have the Botkin girls ever been in love?

No, I don't think Doug knows. They even sound like gay porno to me, and I'm a pretty upstanding individual, no different than most of the guys in the VF/ATI circles. I'm sure several of them snicker as well, but then feel bad about it.

No Botkins or Phillips children will join the military, though many of the followers of VF and ATI do join the military. The Botkins are far from patriotic compared to the Phillips', but even Doug wouldn't put his sons or daughters in the current military system. In fact, I talked to one guy in Botkin circles who has a few older brothers in the military, and he acted ashamed of it. Like somehow they had taken the mark of the beast. (not really, the Botkins/Phillipses don't believe in the rapture/mark of the beast hysteria).

edit to say, I don't know about the Botkin girls. They have implied to me personally that they were more involved with 'guy culture' in New Zealand, but in Botkin-speak that could mean anything. Also, they seemed a little repulsed by men from New Zealand overall.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Were you ever at Headquarters?

Yes. Often.

[Kaylee]

What is the VF leadership's view of families whose children turn away from Christianity, or embrace a more liberal and/or less patriarchial and dominionist form of Christian theology?

If there is judgement toward them or a negative reaction, how do the reconcile that with the Reformed/Calvinist view of salvation, since it is based on God's sovereign will and not the person's parenting or training?

Do they teach, or seem to assume, that all of their children are automatically a part of the Elect, or that their parenting choices could affect that child's place in the Covenant?

Would you say this differs between VF & ATI ?

-wtf is Gothard's basic theology anyway; would you consider him to be Reformed? I ask because a lot of bloggers who follow him seem to be Reformed, but most of the real life people I know who've been involved with him come from IFB churches which tend to preach against Calvinism (or what they assume it to be, anyway).

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Did you go on the refreshingly vigorous, sometimes sweaty, sometimes wet manly romp foray into a mysterious and unusual world with Doug?

Sorry, I can't help myself, when it comes to Capt. Dougie, I can't help but be snarky.

I sure didn't. Have one friend who did though. Said it was a lot of fun, and that nothing mischievous took place.

Feel free to snark. :) This is the place to do it.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

He's ignoring all of my questions. I think he's either a troll or an intern who's gone cowboy. And I do mean cowboy - chaps, spurs, and boots!

Why so shy, intern?

Sorry Lissar, I'm not trying to ignore anyone. I've been typing full speed non-stop since I started the thread, and going back I see I missed quite a few posts. I'm working on them now.

[synchroswimr]

Still no word on oral sex...

He amended his post earlier:

LMAO@ the oral sex question. That's more on a couple by couple basis. Nobody talks about their sex lives that I've been around in these communities, but I know some couples love sex and some despise it. For some of them, I don't think anything is off limits as long as it's between husband and wife, and I do mean anything!

I would have missed it if I wasn't on my phone which has screwey reload sometimes

[treemom]

Ok i admit it, knight is winning me over.

[Boogalou]

Well, I WAS going to continue writing an essay tonight. There goes that plan.

Is there any courtship in the works for John David Duggar? Specifically with Anna Hackel?

And thanks for answering all the questions!

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Why do they hate women?

When you say 'they', it's a pretty broad statement. Interestingly enough, women are the dominant spiritual leaders in the ATI movement. They definitely don't hate women, in fact, it's the women who do the majority share of the teaching in the home about biblical topics.

Vision Forum circles, some of them love women, like Doug, some of them tend to be more 'me man you woman' like Peter Bradrick and everyone from the Amway world, and some of them think they are supposed to hate women but secretly they run just like a mainstream family. For a lot of people, VF conferences are just a big cosplay event. Everybody comes dressed as their favorite patriarchal characters, but when they get back home, everybody goes about business as usual.

[clibbyjo]

I need more, more more!

Give us the Peter B. details, he seems like such a jerk to his wife.

Is JT Phillips gay?

Do they REALLY wear those clothes all the time(like the dress shirt/vest/blazer combo JT likes) or do they wear jeans and tshirts.

[Aurora]

That's where I felt it important to distinguish between potential and conclusions. I agree with some conclusions, disagree with others, and laugh at other still, but he's undeniably a more vivacious reader, a higher IQ, a better communicator, and overall a more academically-oriented person than anyone else in the reformed community that I've met. His family is the same way pretty much.

You may disagree with his presentation of historical facts, and he is pretty opinionated when he does so, but he does put in the research hours in advance. Many other leaders in the Ref/Fundie/MME movements just spout what they want and hope others will research to back it up.

But I bet if you were to find a trivia book about America, and start firing questions at him, you'd have a hard time stumping him. I've sat in lectures of his and just googled every fact he cited, until I was sick of it. He at least does the work of verifying that /somebody/ somewhere can confirm what he's saying, and usually a secular source.

I disagree with his knowledge of historical facts and his ability to analyze and understand history, not just his presentation.

I do believe that any little knowledge he has is probably limited to the USA. His propaganda has a very America-centric, ultra-patriotic spin.

Google is not a proper academic source.

Knight, I think it's great that you're coming out of VF/ATI. But you need to know that their leaders are not to be looked up to as educated, knowledgeable people.

[treemom]

Knight has defrauded me with the idea of this just being one big cosplay event.

[demgirl]

Ok i admit it, knight is winning me over.

I'm saying. He has a sense of humor. And he hasn't called us godless heathen lesbians yet, which is a record for one of these types of threads! Plus, he is awfully accepting of the snark.

Vision Forum circles, some of them love women, like Doug, some of them tend to be more 'me man you woman' like Peter Bradrick and everyone from the Amway world, and some of them think they are supposed to hate women but secretly they run just like a mainstream family. For a lot of people, VF conferences are just a big cosplay event. Everybody comes dressed as their favorite patriarchal characters, but when they get back home, everybody goes about business as usual.

Actually, this confirms a lot of my sneaking suspicions.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Actually thats why I asked, I was wondering if you had stopped drinking the kool aid.

So what about oral sex?

Nope, I'm still a kool-aid drinker. I just mix my own flavors.

I ETA'd on oral sex, basically saying couples do what they want in their own bedroom. Nobody controls the sex lives of individual families. Anything non-marital is horribly forbidden, homosexual marriage is forbidden, thus anything homosexual is forbidden. Within marriage though, there are some who go wild with it, but don't mention it intentionally, then others who view sex as a necessity for breeding. Most fall somewhere in between.

[Guest Anonymous]

He amended his post earlier:

I would have missed it if I wasn't on my phone which has screwey reload sometimes

TY for the heads up. Boy is this thread moving.

Thanks Knight.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Vanderbilt in Nashville has a good stem cell transplant program for some cancers. How amusing would it be to have Geoff use stem cell therapy after the laughable baby conference.

That is incredible, and makes sense. That's why he's so off the radar. Or at least, it's a theory. I'll do my best to figure that out, though they'll do their best to hide that information now that it's been speculated about on Free Jinger.

[formergothardite]

I really, really want to know what his reaction to LOLDougs was and why those interns can't spell or proof read! Does he just pick really dumb people to work under him or what? And it is pretty obvious that somebody from there reads here on a daily basis because the second their mistakes are posted here, they are changed there.

Hi interns or Dougie! Enjoy the thread!