Alyssa & John 6: She's Raising Sister Moms

[MaryOrMartha]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:14 AM, MaryOrMartha said:

I saw her post on IG with a photo from her ultrasound. Based on skull theory, I think baby is another girl and I think they'll name her Ruby, Lily, Polly, Lucy, Emmy, Millie/Milli/Milly Sadie or maybe even Sophie and use the middle name Rose.

After the announcement some additional name possibilities for Webster #4 popped into my head. With how much I like names you'd think I'd have a name picked for my own daughter who is due at the end of October. ?

My prediction would be that the name could either start with an A, and/or end in an A, Y or Ie. I think the name will be longer than 4 letters but still under 6.

But with that said, here are some names I could see them liking...
Poppy
Gracie
Abbie/Abby (even though it might be too close to Allie)
Maya
Ava
Bella
Daisy
Avery
Lola
Brie/Bree
Maisy
Ella
Kylie
Ivy
Leah

I think for the middle name she might go with...
Lou
Kay
Grace
Ann
Hope
Faith
 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by MaryOrMartha

[JermajestyDuggar]

One of the many reasons I never found out the sex for baby #2 was born was because I would have gone ballistic over anyone expressing disappointment or sadness over me having another boy. I ended up having another boy and everyone was happy because he was already born and very cute when they found out the sex. I am very happy to have 2 boys. I would have been happy with any combo because I didn’t have any major preferences to begin with. 

[front hugs > duggs]

Not having yet had kids, we are thinking we will want two (acknowledging this could change either up or down based on how well a potential first goes). I think ideally for me, it would be nice to have the "one of each" to experience both. However, I also am well aware that could have two girls or two boys and still have incredibly different experiences with each. Ultimately, when we are ready, we will just want a baby to love, or babies to love, no matter what.

[fundiesarefascinating]

It always grates on my nerves, especially in fundie circles, when they delineate between girl/boy mum/dad. As if you can't do "typically boy things" with your daughters or vice versa. Like maybe if John and Alyssa weren't so hellbent on forcing toxic masculinity and femininity down their children's throats they could happily enjoy a range of activities, interests, clothing styles, emotions and personality traits of their 4 kids. Irks me to no end that they (and their following) act like John is missing something when they are responsible for John not sharing his "boy" interests with his perfectly capable, interesting daughters. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by fundiesarefascinating
missed words

[Vivi_music]

3 hours ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

It always grates on my nerves, especially in fundie circles, when they delineate between girl/boy mum/dad. As if you can't do "typically boy things" with your daughters or vice versa. Like maybe if John and Alyssa weren't so hellbent on forcing toxic masculinity and femininity down their children's throats they could happily enjoy a range of activities, interests, clothing styles, emotions and personality traits of their 4 kids. Irks me to no end that they (and their following) act like John is missing something when they are responsible for John not sharing his "boy" interests with his perfectly capable, interesting daughters. 

I get you. I totally. But sadly I see that attitude in a lot of non-fundie (in fact non-religious) parents.

Toys have become even more gendered than they used to. Here is an article about a researcher Elizabeth Sweet studied toy catalogs and ads over time. 2019 NPR Article

When you visit toy sections in stores, toys that use to be totally genderless in my eyes (like an art supply kit, or Duplos for example) are now packed in either pink or blue, with stupid things on the label like flowers or trucks. And I see tons of totally non-fundie ordinary folks buy into this idea of gendered interests like it must be the gospel truth or something.

I have to say. I hate this trend. HATE it.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I didn't want to announce the sex of my baby because I didn't want to end up with everything being gendered.  My husband was too excited and told everyone he met and everyone in his phone list within 15 minutes, so I relented and told my friends as well.  We asked for "dinosaur" themed stuff when announcing the pregnancy because I think it's cute, but there have been a lot of "sorry it looks boyish" comments when people give us stuff.  I'm not ungrateful, I'm thrilled people care to give us gifts - but that's exactly why I didn't want to announce.  She's gonna wear every and any color until she's old enough to express a preference, and if that's pink then so be it.  If she's a little goth toddler and wants only black then it'll be easy to match her outfits.

[Lgirlrocks]

56 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

I get you. I totally. But sadly I see that attitude in a lot of non-fundie (in fact non-religious) parents.

Toys have become even more gendered than they used to. Here is an article about a researcher Elizabeth Sweet studied toy catalogs and ads over time. 2019 NPR Article

When you visit toy sections in stores, toys that use to be totally genderless in my eyes (like an art supply kit, or Duplos for example) are now packed in either pink or blue, with stupid things on the label like flowers or trucks. And I see tons of totally non-fundie ordinary folks buy into this idea of gendered interests like it must be the gospel truth or something.

I have to say. I hate this trend. HATE it.

So I grew up a tom boy in the 90’s. I was an 89 baby. An add came to our house for a first computer for kids. The boy was hot wheels and the girl one was Barbie. I loved my barbies but I wanted the hot wheels one so badly. I never asked for it because I knew we didn’t have the money for it. While I loved playing with barbies I also loved playing with action figures and watching “boyish” cartoons like Batman and x-man. The gender thing is so silly. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I didn't want to announce the sex of my baby because I didn't want to end up with everything being gendered.  My husband was too excited and told everyone he met and everyone in his phone list within 15 minutes, so I relented and told my friends as well.  We asked for "dinosaur" themed stuff when announcing the pregnancy because I think it's cute, but there have been a lot of "sorry it looks boyish" comments when people give us stuff.  I'm not ungrateful, I'm thrilled people care to give us gifts - but that's exactly why I didn't want to announce.  She's gonna wear every and any color until she's old enough to express a preference, and if that's pink then so be it.  If she's a little goth toddler and wants only black then it'll be easy to match her outfits.

Gender neutral baby clothing is so hard to find. I wish they made more of it. I swear it’s all either pink and frilly or covered in sports themes, lol. Therefore my boys dressed in some things people probably considered girly but I didn’t care. My idea of gender neutral was probably wider than most people. 

[SassyPants]

36 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gender neutral baby clothing is so hard to find. I wish they made more of it. I swear it’s all either pink and frilly or covered in sports themes, lol. Therefore my boys dressed in some things people probably considered girly but I didn’t care. My idea of gender neutral was probably wider than most people. 

My daughter wanted everything gender neutral for her baby. Fast-forward a few years, she has the most girly girl, ever. To my daughter’s credit, she does roll with it.

[Vivi_music]

41 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gender neutral baby clothing is so hard to find. I wish they made more of it. I swear it’s all either pink and frilly or covered in sports themes, lol. Therefore my boys dressed in some things people probably considered girly but I didn’t care. My idea of gender neutral was probably wider than most people. 

A local blogger mom in my country was kind of ''the local talk'' at the beginning of september when she announced on her website that one of her boys decided to wear a dress for his first day of 2nd grade. She explained that she let's all her kids choose their first day outfit, and that is what the kid chose. The kid also does figure-skating and wear dresses frequently when going to the playground. And no joke, the blogger mom was interviewd on radio and the radio host was like: ''Won't people laugh at him? Aren't you afraid he'll be bullied?'' Seriously, no one would ever say that to a girl wearing jeans and a dinosaur t-shirt.

Good thing you weren't afraid to dress your boys in clothes most people would not buy for boys.

I mentionned I hate the gendered toy trend, and not because I necessarily hate feminine stuff. I actually like pink has a color and I have pink items now in my wardrobe as an adult, more so now then when I was young.

What I hate is that it confines both gender to stereotypes that are harmful to both. A fully-fledged human being is a complex individual, who needs both feminine and masculine qualities (or what society understands as feminine and masculine - because let's face it, these are only human qualities and have no gender). I feel like girls now are starting to be pushed towards STEMS, sports and trucks. Which is great. But boys aren't allowed to want to dance, wear nail polish or dresses yet. Because what is considered feminine is considered ''lesser'' by our society. So if a girl shows more masculine interests like sports, the attitude is all ''You go girl! Be a leader! Good stuff.'' And that new trend is great. I'm all for girl empowerment. But boys should also be allowed to be artistic, sensitive and love to play with doll, love to wear tutus or do ballet.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Vivi_music
Typo

[AussieKrissy]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Not having yet had kids, we are thinking we will want two (acknowledging this could change either up or down based on how well a potential first goes). I think ideally for me, it would be nice to have the "one of each" to experience both. However, I also am well aware that could have two girls or two boys and still have incredibly different experiences with each. Ultimately, when we are ready, we will just want a baby to love, or babies to love, no matter what.

before I had kids for years, I wanted a boy. My Mum died when I was 21 and things shifted and I started to want a little girl. I left having kids until later in life and went through IVF. I still had a preference for a girl and would have been disappointed to find out i was having a boy. But I know it would have passed quickly. I look at my daughter now and wonder how I ever lived without her. I also know that if she was a little boy, I would be looking at him exactly the same. I think it is ok for people to have a preference, even find out the gender to help them prepare for any possible gender disappointment. I think a longing for the experience of a gender that you don't have in your family is normal too. Making to many babies in an attempt to get a particular gender or making your current kids feel less than for not being a particular gender is not ok. 

I was lucky, my little girl is the least girly girl ever so I do feel like I got the best of both genders in her. 

6 hours ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

It always grates on my nerves, especially in fundie circles, when they delineate between girl/boy mum/dad. As if you can't do "typically boy things" with your daughters or vice versa. Like maybe if John and Alyssa weren't so hellbent on forcing toxic masculinity and femininity down their children's throats they could happily enjoy a range of activities, interests, clothing styles, emotions and personality traits of their 4 kids. Irks me to no end that they (and their following) act like John is missing something when they are responsible for John not sharing his "boy" interests with his perfectly capable, interesting daughters. 

hense my dislike of the whole Boymom thing with the easy bake oven at the charity shop with the easy bake oven with Jill D and Famy. Jill, you bet your boys would love that.

2 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

  If she's a little goth toddler and wants only black then it'll be easy to match her outfits.

ohhhh I am picturing a gorgeous little Wednesday Addams 

[JermajestyDuggar]

21 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

A local blogger mom in my country was kind of ''the local talk'' at the beginning of september when she announced on her website that one of her boys decided to wear a dress for his first day of 2nd grade. She explained that she let's all her kids choose their first day outfit, and that is what the kid chose. The kid also does figure-skating and wear dresses frequently when going to the playground. And no joke, the blogger mom was interviewd on radio and the radio host was like: ''Won't people laugh at him? Aren't you afraid he'll be bullied?'' Seriously, no one would ever say that to a girl wearing jeans and a dinosaur t-shirt.

Good thing you weren't afraid to dress your boys in clothes most people would not buy for boys.

I mentionned I hate the gendered toy trend, and not because I necessarily hate feminine stuff. I actually like pink has a color and I have pink items now in my wardrobe as an adult, more so now then when I was young.

What I hate is that it confines both gender to stereotypes that are harmful to both. A fully-fledged human being is a complex individual, who needs both feminine and masculine qualities (or what society understands as feminine and masculine - because let's face it, these are only human qualities and have no gender). I feel like girls now are starting to be pushed towards STEMS, sports and trucks. Which is great. But boys aren't allowed to want to dance, wear nail polish or dresses yet. Because what is considered feminine is considered ''lesser'' by our society. So if a girl shows more masculine interests like sports, the attitude is all ''You go girl! Be a leader! Good stuff.'' And that new trend is great. I'm all for girl empowerment. But boys should also be allowed to be artistic, sensitive and love to play with doll, love to wear tutus or do ballet.

Luckily we live in an area that is more accepting of boys wearing dresses or nail polish. But if I still lived in my hometown, I am 100% positive a boy wearing a dress would be made fun of and become the talk of the town. It just makes me sad. I don’t know why people care what little boys wear. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Luckily we live in an area that is more accepting of boys wearing dresses or nail polish. But if I still lived in my hometown, I am 100% positive a boy wearing a dress would be made fun of and become the talk of the town. It just makes me sad. I don’t know why people care what little boys wear. 

My little one is showing early signs of transgender. This is from my reading other people's experiences and what I can find online. She also could be developing in a completely "normal" way. But I have to admit that it has crossed my mind how much easier it is for the both of us because being a "tom boy" is so much more socially acceptable. My daughter will not be confronted with prejudice as much for not wanting to wear female attire than a boy will be for wearing a dress. Hopefully her's will be the generation where that shit is no more 

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

It always grates on my nerves, especially in fundie circles, when they delineate between girl/boy mum/dad. As if you can't do "typically boy things" with your daughters or vice versa. Like maybe if John and Alyssa weren't so hellbent on forcing toxic masculinity and femininity down their children's throats they could happily enjoy a range of activities, interests, clothing styles, emotions and personality traits of their 4 kids. Irks me to no end that they (and their following) act like John is missing something when they are responsible for John not sharing his "boy" interests with his perfectly capable, interesting daughters. 

I agree, but John and Alyssa just do not share interests, activities etc with their children. Apart from an ocasional basketball game, I doubt there would be differences between boys and girls. I often critizise them for that matter, because they are not bad (they seem caring parents), but are so dull and lazy with the kids!

[fundiesarefascinating]

30 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

I agree, but John and Alyssa just do not share interests, activities etc with their children. Apart from an ocasional basketball game, I doubt there would be differences between boys and girls. I often critizise them for that matter, because they are not bad (they seem caring parents), but are so dull and lazy with the kids!

Fair point! I suppose I always have interpreted Alyssa's fashion, hair, nails, make up etc as her interest/hobbies and that she "shares" (and by share I mean forces her girls to participate in these  extremely gendered, stereotypical practices) this with her girls. Regardless, you are correct in that they are dull, lazy, unimaginative parents.  

[AmericanRose]

Zoey Joy kind of throws things off, but I'm thinking... Averie Lou.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

My little one is showing early signs of transgender. This is from my reading other people's experiences and what I can find online. She also could be developing in a completely "normal" way. But I have to admit that it has crossed my mind how much easier it is for the both of us because being a "tom boy" is so much more socially acceptable. My daughter will not be confronted with prejudice as much for not wanting to wear female attire than a boy will be for wearing a dress. Hopefully her's will be the generation where that shit is no more 

I was a Tom boy growing up and it really wasn’t a big deal. I did have an occasional problem here and there, but it was mostly fine. It would have been a different story if I was a boy wanting to wear a dress. 

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I was a Tom boy growing up and it really wasn’t a big deal. I did have an occasional problem here and there, but it was mostly fine. It would have been a different story if I was a boy wanting to wear a dress. 

She does have a problem here and there when people push her to be something she is not. We clash at the moment about putting her hair up. No amount of “but Thor has a ponytail” will convince her that boys can and do have ponytails. Ponytails are for girls. I mostly let her just leave it out. If I push for it up she can take it out when we get home. You pick your winning chances. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

She does have a problem here and there when people push her to be something she is not. We clash at the moment about putting her hair up. No amount of “but Thor has a ponytail” will convince her that boys can and do have ponytails. Ponytails are for girls. I mostly let her just leave it out. If I push for it up she can take it out when we get home. You pick your winning chances. 

But ponytails and buns for boys are trendy! It's not very common, but it's definitely not "strange" anymore, even in primary schools. I'm talking about "manly" boys (sorry for using the word manly, but I didn't know how to explain myself better, I'm not English native).

My youngest is 6 and has classmates (boys) with polished nails and bracelets or "girly" stuff. One of them even wore skirts for a while: his parents let him choose his outfits and finally he decided to wear mostly jumpsuits because he's very active, too. I know he probably felt some social pressure, but parents&school were ok.

Children are children. Gender roles are poisoning. I dream someday a girl with short hair will just be a girl with short hair and nobody will need to comment about it!

[crancraz]

13 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

 

What I hate is that it confines both gender to stereotypes that are harmful to both. A fully-fledged human being is a complex individual, who needs both feminine and masculine qualities (or what society understands as feminine and masculine - because let's face it, these are only human qualities and have no gender). I feel like girls now are starting to be pushed towards STEMS, sports and trucks. Which is great. But boys aren't allowed to want to dance, wear nail polish or dresses yet. Because what is considered feminine is considered ''lesser'' by our society. So if a girl shows more masculine interests like sports, the attitude is all ''You go girl! Be a leader! Good stuff.'' And that new trend is great. I'm all for girl empowerment. But boys should also be allowed to be artistic, sensitive and love to play with doll, love to wear tutus or do ballet.

Yep. It’s a devaluation of “femininity.” It’s okay and acceptable and even encouraged for girls to adopt “masculine” traits—bravery, leadership, outspokenness. We applaud girls that do that (not women though, lol). But because western society devalues femininity, there’s not praise for boys who are inclined to want to nurture and feel feelings or have “feminine” attributes, much less a societal push for parents to deliberately raise boys with these traits in mind.

I have three daughters and I really think that it is actually much easier in today’s world to raise girls to buck the system than it is to raise boys, which is is a shame because toxic masculinity and the patriarchy has to be dismantled by men, the people who benefit the most from it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m so glad there are “boyish” cat shirts for my sons. When I was a kid, cat shirts were strictly found in the girl department. My kids love cats so they have multiple cat shirts that aren’t covered in glitter and ruffles. Boys can love cats just as much as girls. And my boys aren’t interested in wearing super girly cat shirts. My older son’s favorite is a cat riding a shark in space. 

[whitney37354]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Luckily we live in an area that is more accepting of boys wearing dresses or nail polish. But if I still lived in my hometown, I am 100% positive a boy wearing a dress would be made fun of and become the talk of the town. It just makes me sad. I don’t know why people care what little boys wear. 

Who made the rules that only females wear dresses and nail polish?  There are places in the world where male and female alike wear robes.  Any male on television is wearing makeup in front of the cameras, even if we can't see it.  My daughter is more likely to wear pants and shorts than a dress or skirt.  If I had a son who wanted to wear a dress or skirt, it wouldn't be accepted where I live.  We're just not there yet.  Long hair and earrings on men and a tattoo on anyone is still wrong to many where I live. I have seen guys with make up and nail polish here.

I am a lot more conservative than most who post here, but I really try to respect all opinions even if I don't agree with them.  The older I get, the more I question everything.  I don't have to agree with the actions and opinions of others but I will be respectful.  I will never preach at someone who has a different opinion than I do.  I would love to have a respectful conversation with someone of a differing opinion.

I appreciate being able to come here to see the way the rest of the world lives and thinks.  

[Honey Beach]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:47 AM, BeccaGrim said:

Going by her names, I'm going to say Ashley or Amanda who they will call Mandie.  

She likes nicknames, so she would probably skip the lovely "Amanda" and just go with "Mandi"

[Johannah]

I’m changing my guess to Kylie Rose. When is she expected to announce the name?

[freethemall]

18 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gender neutral baby clothing is so hard to find. I wish they made more of it. I swear it’s all either pink and frilly or covered in sports themes, lol. Therefore my boys dressed in some things people probably considered girly but I didn’t care. My idea of gender neutral was probably wider than most people. 

There is a lot more now - if you look at popular websites like Carter's and Old Navy they have "Gender neutral" sections, and grey/yellow/white are popular colors for kids. When I had our son in 2016 we did not announce the gender and asked for gender neutral for our shower and generally didn't seem to have trouble with it. I also constantly buy stuff from girl sections because I don't understand why stores have decided that girls get to have the monopoly on animals like cats, owls, unicorns, and narwhals, and stuff like rainbows. And yes, he wears pink too! 

Looking at the Bates, you can see the modern/trendy ones like Josie and Carlin who follow all the pinterest/instagram trends in terms of their whole aesthetic, from their homes and weddings and personal style to their kids' style. Glancing at Josie's instagram, baby Willow is wearing lots of neutral colors (white, beige, and black) and more muted pinks and florals, with very neutral instagram-trendy nurseries. Meanwhile Erin and Alyssa are from the pre-BUB Bates and while they have upgraded their styles, they come from the more traditional baby styles with more bright pinks and blues. And of course, Alyssa had her Malibu blue + pink wedding so we know the colors she loves.

And let's be clear, the Webster girls are wearing shorts and pants so that's a step away from the strict skirts-only gender roles but their beliefs are still as toxic. I personally think gender reveal parties are completely outdated and toxic and hope they disappear forever and ever in the context of the California wildfires. Shame on the Bates and Duggars for having these big public sex reveals when people are dying and homes are burning because of such a party.