Joy & Austin 34: Baby Three

[Expectopatronus]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:25 PM, Johannah said:

This is why I’ve assumed Michael Bates Keilen might decide to “adopt” an embryo instead. There are more available than ever, they could spin it as “saving” a soul/baby, and the biggest agency in the country is super Christian and based in Nashville. No home studies, no privacy invasion. She still gets to be pregnant. Checks all the fundie boxes. I’m actually kind of shocked they haven’t gone this route yet. Maybe bc she confirmed that she lost a pregnancy and is still hoping to conceive again?

I don’t think Jessa would ever choose this, but I can imagine it being a perfect fit for fundies dealing with infertility. 

Depends on the agency. There are some embryo adoption agencies that require a home study. It also requires lots of hormone therapy (lupron injections, estrogen injections, progesterone tablets etc.). 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Since Michael did get pregnant last year, I’m guessing they will hold onto the hope of getting pregnant again in the future. I don’t see them adopting anytime soon. 

[Meggo]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:08 PM, Bethy said:

Yes, Gothard was heavily critical of adoption. Wasn't Michael Pearl, also? Something about kids (even toddlers) coming with the "dark arts" (witchcraft/voodoo) already in their souls? Adoption can be a wonderful thing, but only if the adoptive parents (a) acknowledge the inherent trauma and the fact that all the love and hugs in the world won't make it go away, and (b) treat the adopted child the same as they would treat any bio children they have. I have a friend who has one adopted son and some bio kids and she literally forgets that he is adopted. Some of these fundie families would probably act like the adopted child was a second-class citizen and then criticize the child for not being grateful every day to their parents for deigning to adopt them. 

I literally forgot my cousin was adopted. She said "There is French ancestry on my mom's side" and I was like "Uh - NOOOO - your mom and my dad are siblings - and there is no French." Totally forgot. 

I'm an adoptive Mom now and I don't even think about it much. It's always on my mind, trying to make sure I'm doing right by birthmom and wondering about genetics and is that why my kid has serious intellectual delays and should we spend more time pushing him on the adoption front? (he knows, we've discussed, he does.not.care). 

I will also say - my mom has a tendency to bring in weird details about people when discussing them. So "My friend X, you know - the one who had her daughter by artificial insemination? Well she went to Hawaii last year..." (the daughter is in her 30s and the mom of two - why does she always bring up the AI?? All this time later?). So I specifically mentioned to her that if she ever referred to my son as her adopted grandson, that would be the last time she saw him. He's her one and only grandchild and she loves him SOOOO much - she wouldn't dream of risking not seeing him. (he loves her too - but thinks she's bossy... which, she is.) 

 

[CarrotCake]

Is there an option in the US to do a private adoption between two families without an agency?

If so, I could see them get in contact with a pregnant woman via church to adopt that way.

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, CarrotCake said:

Is there an option in the US to do a private adoption between two families without an agency?

If so, I could see them get in contact with a pregnant woman via church to adopt that way.

Yes, but you still need a social worker to perform a homestudy and then an attorney to do all the legal paperwork with the court. Private adoption would have fewer rules against homeschooling and other things the state foster system wouldn't allow, but they'd still have to agree to things like no physical punishment and honoring whatever agreement they make with birth family about contact. If they managed to adopt I just can't see it going well.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:31 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Since Michael did get pregnant last year, I’m guessing they will hold onto the hope of getting pregnant again in the future. I don’t see them adopting anytime soon. 

I totally missed this. She did???

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I totally missed this. She did???

Yes, last year sometime. She didn’t go into detail. But she had a miscarriage last year. 

[OHFL2009]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes, last year sometime. She didn’t go into detail. But she had a miscarriage last year. 

Did she ever confirm it was last year? The only mention I saw was this Q&A, where she says they have a baby in Heaven but not any details of when it happened. I kind of assumed (for no good reason, other than it happened to me) that she had the miscarriage earlier in their marriage and hadn't been able to get pregnant again. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

Did she ever confirm it was last year? The only mention I saw was this Q&A, where she says they have a baby in Heaven but not any details of when it happened. I kind of assumed (for no good reason, other than it happened to me) that she had the miscarriage earlier in their marriage and hadn't been able to get pregnant again. 

 

The thing is, she’s done pretty personal Q&As before. And she never mentioned it. So yes, it could have been earlier. But I doubt it.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

3 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Is there an option in the US to do a private adoption between two families without an agency?

If so, I could see them get in contact with a pregnant woman via church to adopt that way.

I've known people who did both types of adoption. One waited decades for a baby through the public system. The baby was given up by a drug addicted mother and had a lot of issues. 

Other people I've known did private adoptions in various ways. And extended family member adopted a teenager's accidental pregnancy That mom only would consider a family member.

I've known a couple people who basically start a whole campaign. With flyers and networking telling everybody they know that they're wanting to adopt. A private agency was also involved to help coordinate. It was a year or so but one adopter connected with a family in the next state and then basically had to go through a sort of interview process with the pregnant family. 

THEN negotiations started for money. I was genuinely shocked how much money the pregnant family asked for and received. Then part way through the pregnancy they decided they wanted thousands more. The adopting family was very upset but determined to go ahead so the agency actually negotiated the Financials again. I dont recall all the details but it was stuff like paying all the medical bills, paying the pregnant mom a monthly stipend while pregnant. Then the pregnant family wanted like lump sum in addition.

Besides all this the adopting family had to pay the agency fees for facilitating and basically a finders fee. Plus lawyer fees and legal fees.

The adopting family had to go live in the other state for awhile so that state's social services could observe and sign off (so the adopters had to be off work for 6 weeks? 8 weeks? Something like that) .

Also of note this baby was also born to a family who admitted to smoking pot and the adopting family strongly suspected additional drug use based on their interactions.

 

I know of another family (friend of a friend) who adopted twice? While having their own kids in their 20s. I dont know how that came about but they are fundie Christian types and definitely adopted for those reasons. I was surprised to see they adopted at approximately the same time as having bio kids. As I've read here that that isn't usually allowed. Must be a different place. 

 

[Giraffe]

4 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Is there an option in the US to do a private adoption between two families without an agency?

If so, I could see them get in contact with a pregnant woman via church to adopt that way.

Yes. It’s one of the ways fundies could make adoption sketchy. It’s completely legal and hopefully most of the time is done well with everyone genuinely consenting. With this crowd though I could see them coercing a young mother into relinquishing her baby out of undo influence being placed on her by religious authorities, her family, and the people wanting to adopt. 
 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Giraffe
Phrasing it better

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Joy posted a video about camping in their RV....complete with baby cage. Where is the JRod crew!!?

Did Joy get this idea from Jill R? 

I'm confused as to why they need to put a thingy to lock Evey (?) in her bed. Joy says "so she doesn't fall out" the bed is basically on the floor. 

Also mentioned putting the kids down (to sleep) and driving home. So presumably they're not buckled in. Plus the tornado watch and severe storms, great time to go to a campground. Do people not check the weather before camping? 

 

[Giraffe]

What is with fundies thinking basic safety measures don't need to apply to them?! 

[Jana814]

29 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

What is with fundies thinking basic safety measures don't need to apply to them?! 

I have noticed that too. Maybe they think G-d will protect them so they don’t see a reason to be safe. 

[Mrs Ms]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:14 PM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Joy posted a video about camping in their RV....complete with baby cage. Where is the JRod crew!!?

Did Joy get this idea from Jill R? 

I'm confused as to why they need to put a thingy to lock Evey (?) in her bed. Joy says "so she doesn't fall out" the bed is basically on the floor. 

Also mentioned putting the kids down (to sleep) and driving home. So presumably they're not buckled in. Plus the tornado watch and severe storms, great time to go to a campground. Do people not check the weather before camping? 

 

I think the second paragraph I bolded might answer the first one I did? 
(Caged at floor level so she won’t fall out of bed while they are driving.)

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

1 hour ago, Mrs Ms said:

I think the second paragraph I bolded might answer the first one I did? 
(Caged at floor level so she won’t fall out of bed while they are driving.)

Oh ...yes.... that makes a sort of terrible sad sense. But....what keeps Gideon in while they're driving??

[Mrs Ms]

5 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Oh ...yes.... that makes a sort of terrible sad sense. But....what keeps Gideon in while they're driving??

Jesus? 
 

Their cognitive dissonance between “children are a blessing from god” and actual (child)safety is eye watering.

[FluffySnowball]

Never mind, the question I asked was answered when I scrolled down. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by FluffySnowball

[SorenaJ]

Pro-life until they’re born then it’s “may the odds be ever in your favor” 

[Seeking]

SorenaJ - you win the internet today!

[Tangy Bee]

I wouldn't have the nerve to go camping while pregnant 😳

[Knight of Ni]

9 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I wouldn't have the nerve to go camping while pregnant 😳

I went camping while pregnant. We have a large fifth wheel so we weren't anywhere near roughing it. Let me tell you, it is absolutely exhausting. But you know what's worse than camping while pregnant? Camping with an infant. That's the best birth control ever. My son is 2.5 and it seems like its just now getting easier. It will be even better once he's potty trained, but right now he's showing no interest. 

[CanadianMamam]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:07 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

The thing is, she’s done pretty personal Q&As before. And she never mentioned it. So yes, it could have been earlier. But I doubt it.

Michaela made a lot of posts about miracles and joy in the late summer/early fall of 2021 and then a post in December of 2021 about how that Christmas was particularly hard. I think it is pretty likely she miscarried in that period.

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:26 PM, CanadianMamam said:

Michaela made a lot of posts about miracles and joy in the late summer/early fall of 2021 and then a post in December of 2021 about how that Christmas was particularly hard. I think it is pretty likely she miscarried in that period.

Oof. Wasn't that Christmas also while Erin was pregnant with #5, the Miracle Baby? That must have made it even harder, especially if she was far enough along to tell the sex; even a blood test won't give you an accurate result till most of the way through the first trimester.

[fluffernutter]

Joy posted a video on instagram. Click bait-ish with her in the hospital getting a stress test, which she needs to have twice a week now. She had the kids in tow and didn't seem to realize all that was entailed. They decided to take out their bedroom carpets because "they were a diaper" when her son was potty training. Ew. She's stressed because they are sleeping in the kids room? Living room? RV? And hopefully they will be back to normal before the baby comes. I don't really care for Austin. He doesn't seem super nice. Maybe he doesn't like being taped but this is at least some of the money they have coming in.