Bates 28: Defected Products Courtesy of the SOTDRT

[Melissa1977]

I'm appalled by Callie's birthday post. Sounds disturbing and very sad. That girl needs deep love and attention and I doubt she's receiving any of that. Her sistermother was Michaela and was left *orphan" at a very young age. Kelly clearly ignores the 3 young girls, while seems to spoil Jeb and Judson. Kelly is so blind that thinks her message is sensitive, but it's depressing!

[llg1234]

When said she's going to "miss these tender moments," did anyone else think she was talking about when she gets married and moves out? She's ELEVEN and Kelly's already thinking about when she gets married off. I realize Callie is most likely going to be married 9-10 years from now, but they can't even pretend to act like it's not their main goal to get their daughters married off. 

[AussieKrissy]

5 hours ago, llg1234 said:

When said she's going to "miss these tender moments," did anyone else think she was talking about when she gets married and moves out? She's ELEVEN and Kelly's already thinking about when she gets married off. I realize Callie is most likely going to be married 9-10 years from now, but they can't even pretend to act like it's not their main goal to get their daughters married off. 

I am a 'normal' person aka not a fundie and I took it to mean, along the lines of 'when she grows out of it'...you are most probably closer to the mark though...

Edited August 5, 2020 by AussieKrissy

[amster]

At least Kelly seems to know which of her children Callie is. Better than Michelle who would be hard pressed to write anything this detailed about any of her kids. But I agree, it's not normal behaviour for an 11 year old to seem to hold so much guilt.

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, llg1234 said:

When said she's going to "miss these tender moments," did anyone else think she was talking about when she gets married and moves out? She's ELEVEN and Kelly's already thinking about when she gets married off. I realize Callie is most likely going to be married 9-10 years from now, but they can't even pretend to act like it's not their main goal to get their daughters married off. 

I think she means when the girl will grow up and become a teenager.  

[Bobology]

20 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I'm appalled by Callie's birthday post. Sounds disturbing and very sad. That girl needs deep love and attention and I doubt she's receiving any of that.

I'm absolutely with you here, based on what the programs and family posts allow us to see. I read the bday post thinking Callie has rarely received the love and attention she deserves from her parents (although Michaela probably did a great job, given how many kids she had to tend to and adore.) Maybe Callie realizes and understands what she has missed and wants to make sure other people don't miss out on being important and worthy. Hopefully Callie sees other kids in the family (Addallee, Ellie, possibly Warden and Isaiah) not getting much from the parents, either, so at least she isn't completely singled out as not being worth her parents' time.

[RosyDaisy]

I cannot erase that image of Callie saying "I want Mom" after the house fire.  That was heartbreaking to hear.  That poor child was scared and wanted her mother.  But no, Kelly thought Alyssa's baby shower was more important.  That convinced me that Kelly considers her younger kids a nuisance that she doesn't want to make time for.  But when they are of courting age, then she seems to have all the time in the world.

[rebeccawriter01]

6 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I cannot erase that image of Callie saying "I want Mom" after the house fire.  That was heartbreaking to hear.  That poor child was scared and wanted her mother.  But no, Kelly thought Alyssa's baby shower was more important.  That convinced me that Kelly considers her younger kids a nuisance that she doesn't want to make time for.  But when they are of courting age, then she seems to have all the time in the world.

Not just the younger kids. I remember that episode well. Kelly Jo had gone to Chicago first to see and bring Michaela to Alyssa's home in Florida. She arrived and kept saying to Michaela that she didn't want to be there, as she wanted to be with the family in Tennessee. Michaela is usually stoic, but you could honestly see the pain in her eyes as her mother was going on and on about not wanting to be there though she sounded supportive. Then she, Michaela and two or so of the other girls get to Florida and all Kelly Jo did was whine that she wanted to see Gil and that they didn't spend this much time apart usually. Alyssa was also supportive of her mother. 

It wasn't Michelle Duggar zoned out and unblinking as Anna was in labor and screaming in the backseat as Josh drove creepy, but it was up there as bizarre behavior. I don't know if anyone told Kelly Jo, but Tennessee is between Illinois and Florida. She could have changed the travel plans and stopped. 

I don't know if it is for the cameras and storylines, but they often show Kelly Jo conflicted on her priorities. She misses younger kids birthdays, older children's non-birthing/non-wedding events to be in the waiting room at Alyssa's birthing center or stepping in front of a professional camera crew with her smart phone at Erin's bedside. When Alyssa had her first heart procedure, Gil and Kelly flew to be at the hospital, left Katie? and flew back to be at Carlin's wedding shower. I've had that same procedure. I needed my mother after it not during it. 

On 8/4/2020 at 4:02 PM, llg1234 said:

When said she's going to "miss these tender moments," did anyone else think she was talking about when she gets married and moves out? She's ELEVEN and Kelly's already thinking about when she gets married off. I realize Callie is most likely going to be married 9-10 years from now, but they can't even pretend to act like it's not their main goal to get their daughters married off. 

Add in the video message that Gil did for UP's social media that they do for each of the kids, grandkids, and in-laws, it is even more disturbing. For the second year in a row his big compliment was that she will be a "great mommy" some day. 

[Tangy Bee]

Has anyone ever made them aware of their behavior in the comments? Surely FJers are not the only people noticing this. I also think that Kelly Jo realizes that any kind of family footage is more $$$$. They might be in a rush to marry off all daughters because that way there is no pressure to support or be responsible for them. JB Duggar  has this strategy to use money to buy property and houses. Have we seen any hint of Gil having this skill? Gil pretty much minds his own business about how his SIL's provide. As long as his daughters are happy I guess.

 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Add in the video message that Gil did for UP's social media that they do for each of the kids, grandkids, and in-laws, it is even more disturbing. For the second year in a row his big compliment was that she will be a "great mommy" some day

Which is specially painful, not only because it makes difficult for Callie to dream about a career, but also because Bates have an infertile daughter. Knowing how Michaela is suffering, they still reinforce the fertility cult! 

In addition, they have some daughters that enjoy (or enjoyed) their jobs while being moms. Gil could tell her young daughters "dear Xxx, you love xxx, you could be a great xxxx, and MAYBE be a mom someday. But not... careers are for losers who cannot be mothers, isn't it? Makes me angry!!!!

Edited August 6, 2020 by Melissa1977
Spelling

[lexiloumarie]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:53 PM, lumpentheologie said:

Especially anyone on FJ!

There were a few I'd have bought if it wasn't for the cult so I get the pp wanting to find another source. 

[JordynDarby5]

10 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Not just the younger kids. I remember that episode well. Kelly Jo had gone to Chicago first to see and bring Michaela to Alyssa's home in Florida. She arrived and kept saying to Michaela that she didn't want to be there, as she wanted to be with the family in Tennessee. Michaela is usually stoic, but you could honestly see the pain in her eyes as her mother was going on and on about not wanting to be there though she sounded supportive. Then she, Michaela and two or so of the other girls get to Florida and all Kelly Jo did was whine that she wanted to see Gil and that they didn't spend this much time apart usually. Alyssa was also supportive of her mother. 

It wasn't Michelle Duggar zoned out and unblinking as Anna was in labor and screaming in the backseat as Josh drove creepy, but it was up there as bizarre behavior. I don't know if anyone told Kelly Jo, but Tennessee is between Illinois and Florida. She could have changed the travel plans and stopped. 

I don't know if it is for the cameras and storylines, but they often show Kelly Jo conflicted on her priorities. She misses younger kids birthdays, older children's non-birthing/non-wedding events to be in the waiting room at Alyssa's birthing center or stepping in front of a professional camera crew with her smart phone at Erin's bedside. When Alyssa had her first heart procedure, Gil and Kelly flew to be at the hospital, left Katie? and flew back to be at Carlin's wedding shower. I've had that same procedure. I needed my mother after it not during it. 

Add in the video message that Gil did for UP's social media that they do for each of the kids, grandkids, and in-laws, it is even more disturbing. For the second year in a row his big compliment was that she will be a "great mommy" some day. 

I think its for storylines. I doubt Kelly's ever really conflicted or Gil for that matter. He thought nothing of ditching his kids to go to Florida where Kelly was after Jed and Judson who clearly were not being watched by anyone started the fire in the laundry room. Most parents would realizes they need to fix the the mess at the house and make sure their one top of watching their kids after something like that. Nope. Not Gil. Notice how Kelly shows up for Alyssa's heart procedure but not to help her and John for a week or so afterwards when they would need help the most. Plus most parents who actually love their kids and are able to be there would want to be the there for the procedure and to help out afterwards. Nope, not Kelly she's off to a wedding shower. Not because she's actually put any work into the shower but because of TLC money and attention. Its something she can be at and not actually have to do any thing. Don't forget Kelly decided to have her lasik right before Tori's wedding which she would need a couple weeks to recover. She seemed surprised when her kids thought it was a bad idea. Which any decent mom would already know that. She should be busy helping to finish up working on the wedding, and preparing for guests and you know of course raising her remaining kids. Nope, not Kelly.  She never fails to find away to get out of doing any work. How often on the show is Kelly "so behind" on something and then gives everyone else a job. How often have we heard Kelly claim in the weeks before a wedding that she's so busy even though she's not actually doing anything. Her sister makes the cakes, another one does the flowers, Michaela fixes flower girl dresses, etc. At the last shower I forget if it was wedding or baby shower but I think it was a baby shower Kelly was suppose to bring the food and she forgot. Of course she did. She calling (who else?) Michaela to do it. Or the scene before Carlin was getting married when she was trying to convince Alyssa to move home you know because Kelly was about to lose her last adult daughter to raise her kids. Luckily for her Michaela and Tori moved home (although I don't know how much help Tori is). Or the boys' ski trip that Kelly just had to come along with because they needed someone to cook. Yeah because Kelly cooks. Or when they were grilling burgers in another episode and Zach says he took over grilling from Gil because he was very conveniently terrible at it. Gil and Kelly do absolutely nothing.

Edited August 6, 2020 by JordynDarby5

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I think its for storylines. I doubt Kelly's ever really conflicted or Gil for that matter. He thought nothing of ditching his kids to go to Florida where Kelly was after Jed and Judson who clearly were not being watched by anyone started the fire in the laundry room. Most parents would realizes they need to fix the the mess at the house and make sure their one top of watching their kids after something like that. Nope. Not Gil. 

In that episode they couldn't even define who was supposed to be watching the children. Per the interviews, Ellie was at Erin's house spending the night. Katie and Kelly Jo were in Chicago (or on their way) to see Michaela and bring her to Florida. Warden was with Alyssa in Florida. Nathan was in Mississippi. Gil was on a tree job with Jackson and Isaiah. 

So that means that at home were Lawson (arrived very late that night and was sleeping), Trace, Tori, Carlin, Josie, Addy, Callie, Judson and Jeb. I remember Lawson stood on the porch next to Zach who had been patrolling when the call came over the radio about the dispatch of fire trucks. The part that stood out was that Lawson, who was the one who supposedly was alerted and discovered the fire, was standing on the front porch wearing his volunteer badge and had a gun in a holster. While I can appreciate that he might want to speak to the first responders because of his volunteer constable training, who the heck gets a gun and badge before leaving a burning building? And if said gun was loaded and not secured properly (easy enough to get to when he was supposedly searching the house for Jeb who was hiding), we could very well have been talking about a worse disaster than some smoky clothes and water damage.  

Kelly Jo is bad at the parent thing, but Gil was particularly useless on that one. The recovery people came to assess damage and begin the cleaning process. They told Gil to get clothes or necessities for the children for a day or two. Next thing we see, each child is throwing 2-3 garbage bag sized bags of clothes down the stairs for immediate cleaning while Gil says they own too much (estimating they have given them 70 bags for immediate cleaning. I've worked as a volunteer after fires. The rule of thumb is that the recovery people will clean 2-3 outfits per person in 24 hours so that people aren't having to wear the same outfit day after day and do laundry naked. The other stuff takes a week or so for a normal number of people. 

So many things were wrong with this. 

1. My aunt's apartment building caught fire about 7 years ago. Her unit wasn't damaged but there was smoke smell and water damage surrounding her. They had turned off power to the building that was later demolished. Adults only were allowed in for 15 minutes to get necessities and were told to leave anything fabric to be cleaned. She lived on the 4th floor and was elderly. So my father and his brother-in-law made the trip and went up to get her meds and a few other items. It was strictly timed. Families with children were told point blank not to bring their children inside. While the fire was out, there were concerns about safety and breathing in the smoke, etc. 

2. Red Cross, including there in Anderson County where I had volunteered for a while, would have given them gift cards to purchase things like clothing and toiletries while they stayed in the hotel. While I doubt they needed them, I have no doubt the Bates would have taken free money. Plus there are all those church people who would have helped them. 

3. It was 24-36 hours after the fire and Gil arrives without any children at Alyssa's house. So either he left Lawson, Trace, Tori, Carlin, Josie, Addy, Ellie, Callie, Judson, and Jeb with Zach/Whitney and Erin/Chad or he left them at the extended stay. I truly feel for whoever ended up with the fire starters staying with them. I'm honestly surprised Michaela got to go to the shower for Alyssa and didn't end up babysitting all her younger siblings instead.  

[candygirl200413]

Jackson (I think?) wants to join the marine corps? But I also just started the episode. 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, candygirl200413 said:

Jackson (I think?) wants to join the marine corps? But I also just started the episode. 

I said this on another board, but I'm already taking bets on what excuse they will use for that not happening. God's going to call him to do something else like keep working for Chad or God's going to introduce him to his future wife are my two guesses. 

[llucie]

6 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

Jackson (I think?) wants to join the marine corps? But I also just started the episode. 

I remember he mentioning it when he was younger and they all were being asked about what they wanted to do when older. Hopefully he will be able to pursue it if thats what he wants, and not encouraged to do something completely diferent like they did with Katie and her nursing.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

22 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

Jackson (I think?) wants to join the marine corps? But I also just started the episode. 

Jackson’s going to ALERT, and “planning to join the Marines” sounds better to the heathen audience than “our cult includes paramilitary training!” 

[Dominionatrix]

They managed to turn that segment into a tidy little stealth ad for ALERT. Kelly talked about how he’d get basic training experience so he could make an informed decision about joining the military, and made it sound like a logical step in that journey. UP should be ashamed of shilling the cult so blatantly. 

[JMO]

Agreed.  He will go off to ALERT and they will most likely find a reason to keep him from joining the Marines.  However, he has a penis and will be given more credence to follow what the Lord tells him to do "after praying upon it" than any girl would.  I hate how much they limit what their girls do.  They are only allowed to truly follow their dreams after marriage.  Michaela is only a nurse since she is out of the house and under Brandon's umbrella of protection.  Not to mention she is the completely selfless all restriction abiding Golden child who would be trusted to do just about anything.   She's in the same category as Katie (Morton) Smith.  So good at being a Christian that she will always be supported.  Not to mention with their struggles with infertility that gives her a pass to work without "abandoning her children".  Look at Abbie Duggar.  She claims that she didn't return to work out of concern for COVID and infecting her baby.  Possible and reasonable.  But I will be interested to see if she ever returns to work.  I know a lot of women who went back to their healthcare jobs in NYC, some even working in COVID wards,  this spring  despite having infants/children at home. 

[OrchidBlossom]

Off topic but just had to be annoyed somewhere, saw a post on reddit about how a bunch of the Bates “married out” of fundiedom citing Alyssa wearing shorts (like the Websters aren’t IBLP to the core), Whitney (like she wasn’t so desperate for acceptance and family that she’d have changed anything), and Ashley who is apparently not fundie because she lives in NYC and wears jeans. 
 

I don’t know enough about Chaney and her family to have an opinion but I couldn’t roll my eyes hard enough. Anyone else see that and get annoyed? I don’t spend a lot of time on fundie reddit for that exact reason. Sick of seeing the no pants=fundie everything else is totally fine narrative. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by OrchidBlossom
Clarity

[JanasTattooParlor]

3 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Off topic but just had to be annoyed somewhere, saw a post on reddit about how a bunch of the Bates “married out” of fundiedom citing Alyssa wearing shorts (like the Websters aren’t IBLP to the core), Whitney (like she wasn’t so desperate for acceptance and family that she’d have changed anything), and Ashley who is apparently not fundie because she lives in NYC and wears jeans. 
 

I don’t know enough about Chaney and her family to have an opinion but I couldn’t roll my eyes hard enough. Anyone else see that and get annoyed? I don’t spend a lot of time on fundie reddit for that exact reason. Sick of seeing the no pants=fundie everything else is totally fine narrative. 

I did see that and got annoyed by the same things you did. I saw a few commenters point out how Ashley is definitely still fundie but that she doesn’t fit the country girl fundie type that we’re used to seeing. I also saw someone else say how Whitney may not have been as fundie when they met but that her complacency with the Bates rules and her following through with homeschooling her kids still shows that she’s definitely fundie. 

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

I did see that and got annoyed by the same things you did. I saw a few commenters point out how Ashley is definitely still fundie but that she doesn’t fit the country girl fundie type that we’re used to seeing. I also saw someone else say how Whitney may not have been as fundie when they met but that her complacency with the Bates rules and her following through with homeschooling her kids still shows that she’s definitely fundie. 

Yeah I saw a few people sort of disputing it but more people talking about how spot on the post was ?

[Italiangirl]

So Kelly posted her salvation video too and from what I read on Tumblr is basically the same than Tori, Erin, and Jessa, why are they all posting now? Is there some sort of challenge? And why do they think people will be interested in seeing basically the same video from different people? Even the words at very similar, not just the story. I don't get it. I could understand maybe if there was some uniqueness in there somewhere but it almost seems all script and just being past from one to another one of them 

[ColeJo]

I would say my testimony is similar, but things didn't start to click until I got on antidepressants. From what I've read, getting saved seemed to come from a place of fear and there was a rededication down the line. I got saved because I loved Jesus and believed he was Saviour who was resurrected from the dead. I struggled with my assurance of salvation because I was dealing with what I now know was untreated ADHD. 

I personally don't think the concept of salvation is taught very well in general because these stories are very common. There is a subtle contest of who has been a Christian the longest and it is putting kids in a position they may not be ready for. They should be able to understand the cost of discipleship before deciding to become a Christian.

Edited August 26, 2020 by ColeJo

[formergothardite]

On 8/26/2020 at 3:20 AM, Italiangirl said:

Even the words at very similar, not just the story.

At some points they used almost the exact same sentences!

Being out of the whole "salvation" mindset these stories just sound so weird now. It makes me sad that Tori thought she was suffering from a pride issue because she thought she wasn't a bad person. Spending her nights crying because she had been taught she was so awful and deserved to be tortured for eternity is heartbreaking.