Meghan and Harry 3: Working Towards Financial Independence

[tabitha2]

Visiting his family for Christmas for 3 days and staying away from the main house at that is hardly going to harm him , his wife or son.

How are they Toxic? He loves his dad and Grandparents , enjoys his stepmother, gets along with his cousins.  
 

William and Kate alternate years between families and they Also have participated in far more outings, dinners and events with the Queen and Other family members both together and separately. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by tabitha2

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, SweetJuly said:

arry and Meghan were notably absent both at Balmoral and Sandringham last year, apparently despite a personal invitation from the Queen to the latter. I do think that this is a very telling detail and a sign of them having "left" (or at least distanced themselves considerably from) the family.

they decided to spend Christmas with her family. What does this actually "tell" except they spent the last two Christmases with his family and spent this one with her family. Will and Kate do this too. 

3 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Visiting his family for Christmas for 3 days and staying away from the main house at that is hardly going to harm him , his wife or son.

They had a kid and wanted to spend that child's first Christmas in a different way. Lots and lots and lots of people do this. I did it. We decided that we didn't want to spend Christmas day with my husband's family because it was just too damn stressful.  They took at least one year off from the royal Christmas circus and that isn't a sign they are dumping their family. 

[Destiny]

His Grandmother and Grandfather esp the latter have very few years left and have these few times a year to be off the clock so to speak and get the extended and very busy family together. That’s reason enough to take up the invitations. 

The same could also potentially be said for her family. (I don’t know her family situation and don’t care.) I don’t see how not going somewhere for Christmas and spending time with her family instead is not shocking. Most families make this choice every holiday season - who goes where when. It’s part of being a new family with ties on both sides. Sometimes it means that even grandma gets a phone call instead of a visit.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Visiting his family for Christmas for 3 days and staying away from the main house at that is hardly going to harm him , his wife or son.

So we should do whatever we're commanded if it won't cause us physical harm?  What about the harm in allowing your family of origin to dictate how you live your life?  

 

10 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

How are they Toxic? He loves his dad and Grandparents , enjoys his stepmother, gets along with his cousins.  

You have absolutely no way of knowing the dynamics of that family, nor does anyone else here.  But are you saying if you love your parents and grandparents you can't have issues with your family?  Life isn't that black and white.

 

12 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

William and Kate alternate years between families and they Also have participated in far more outings, dinners and events with the Queen and Other family members both together and separately. 

Again - what does this have to do with anything?  Why do you think they owe deference to his family over hers, their own little nuclear family, or just their own wishes?

[nausicaa]

15 minutes ago, viii said:

No. You do not have to spend time with toxic people because they’re old. 

When did we determine that his grandparents are toxic? (Or that he sees them that way?)

I do think people make good points about the double standards of creating distance with family. They shouldn't be compelled to live anywhere or spend holidays with anyone whom they don't want to spend time with. (I'm estranged from my father with zero guilt about it.)

I think the thing that kind of sticks in my craw is, you have a bit less of an personal autonomy argument when Grandmama is paying the bills for your lavish life. It's like engaged couples who complain about their parents adding wedding guests or wanting things a certain way, when the parents are the ones footing the 30k bill. 

With adult freedoms come adult responsibilities--like paying your own way. I do realize it's a bit more of a grey area with Harry's role though. I'm interested to see where they're at a year from now. 

[formergothardite]

13 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

How are they Toxic? He loves his dad and Grandparents , enjoys his stepmother, gets along with his cousins. 

The family might not be toxic. Granted they do seem to be rallying around the pervert Andrew, which shows they are probably at least  fucked up on some level. But the entire concept of the royal family is toxic. Kate just spoke about how she felt obligated to trot out in front of crowds right after she gave birth and how stressful that was. To be part of the royal family is to feel obligated to put your life up as basically a form of reality entertainment. It has to be a very toxic environment, so is it any wonder that they wanted out of it all after they had a child? 

And in this day and age, you don't have to physically show up to be a part of family events. One of my sisters hasn't been home for years for holidays because she just says she likes spending Christmas at her house. But for family parties we have live chats and they participate. Her kids call, text, video chat with cousins and grandparents. So this idea that they some how cutting their family off is fairly ridiculous since we don't know if they aren't live chatting with the Queen on a daily basis. None of us actually knows what is going on. 

 

[tabitha2]

Because William will be King, Catherine will be Queen consort and Their Children will most likely spend the rest of their lives working for the Family. His family is the important one and takes precedence and always will. It’s just reality. Anyone who marries into this family should realize that.  But they do spend plenty of time with Middletons anyhow. William likes the homey atmosphere it’s been said. 
 

Every family had issues. But Unless Harry is lying he has talked of his admiration for his grandparents, he loves Camilla for Making his dad happy and thinks Catherine is wonderful. 
 

Grandma asking you to visit her for Christmas dinner and drinks afterwards  is not dictating how you live your life.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, tabitha2 said:

Because William will be King, Catherine will be Queen consort and Their Children will most likely spend the rest of their lives working for the Family. His family is the important one and takes precedence and always will. It’s just reality. Anyone who marries into this family should realize that.

And that is a toxic situation regardless of the individuals involved.  

1 minute ago, tabitha2 said:

Every family had issues. But Unless Harry is lying he has talked of his admiration for his grandparents, he loves Camilla for Making his dad happy and thinks Catherine is wonderful. 
 

Grandma asking you to visit her for Christmas dinner and drinks afterwards  is not dictating how you live your life.

So I'll ask again, using an example.   If a gen 2 Bates wanted to go their own way but still loved and kept in contact with their family, but Gil and Kelly asked them to Christmas dinner do you think they owe it to them to show up when asked?  Or should they be able to determine with whom they spend the holiday?

 

[tabitha2]

What’s Toxic? As I said they enjoy and spend time with Kate’s family. Carole M watches  the kids when the Cambridge’s are away. But of course the Royal family takes priority. 
 

Apples and oranges. The Bates parents expect their children namely the daughters to become part of another family, leave and cleave and all And most of the Bates kids due to Jobs  and money  and lots of little kids to handle can’t travel home for a week every holiday. No one need feel obliged Or guilty for anything. 
 

None of that applies to the Queen and her family. Far fewer of them, far more money, certainly very few 9 to 5 jobs that must be worked to pay bills.  As I understand Most of them actually don’t spend the whole time at Sandringham or Balmoral anyway.  They Eat, shmooze and visit and say their goodbyes and  yes, go visit the other side of the family. 

 

I would think Harry and Meghan can do the same and no one would blink an eye. 
 

 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I would think Harry and Meghan can do the same and no one would blink an eye. 

Sure they could.  But why should they have to.

Now, for me if the queen wanted to tie financial support with mandatory appearances...treating family as nothing more than employees...then fair.  They decide if they want to do X to get Y.  It's shitty and IMO would have to stem from a toxic dynamic, but if you want to live your own life, pay your own bills.

But unless they want to make it a purely business arrangement I will never understand how people think this family is owed anything so it's pointless for me to argue.

 

[tabitha2]

It’s not like he has any strong connection to his maternal family and it’s the Markle connection that’s oozes Toxicity and bitterness. The Windsor’s Maybe full of issues but they have each other’s backs and stick together and that’s not Nothing. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Grandma asking you to visit her for Christmas dinner and drinks afterwards  is not dictating how you live your life.

And Grandma should be able to understand if you have just had your first child and need a quiet Christmas and your wife needs to spend Christmas with her mother. 

ETA: Is Andrew at these Christmas events? Because if he is then fuck, no one should be criticized for not bringing their kids around him. We don't know the reasons behind them choosing to spend one Christmas away from the royal family, but Meghan at least should be aware it is totally normal to refuse to bring kids around a guy like Andrew. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by formergothardite

[tabitha2]

No ever said she didn’t did they? 
 

Real talk, do you think Andrew molests babies?  Because Meghan not going because of Andrew is really stretching it IMO 

[Giraffe]

@tabitha2 - living life out of avoiding potential regret is a shitty way to live. That’s what you’re saying they should do when you say they should spend time with family simply because the person may not live another year. Why should that determine their actions? We all could drop dead at any moment. Why shouldn’t they live the life they want to live rather than live in fear of “what if’s.”

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Real talk, do you think Andrew molests babies?  Because Meghan not going because of Andrew is really stretching it IMO 

Do you think there needs to be immediate danger to avoid a sexual predator of underaged girls?

My kids are young adults and I wouldn't bring them around to socialize with one, even though none would be in the demographic to be assaulted.  

I wouldn't go anywhere where I had to be civil to a sexual predator.  To continue to treat them normally socially just normalizes them.  

Would you socialize with a sexual predator?

[tabitha2]

I would not but neither of us know Meghan Markle’s personal feelings about the issue either way. Anyway There are far more likely reasons she may avoid want Christmas at the Queens estate than Randy Andy. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So I'll ask again, using an example.   If a gen 2 Bates wanted to go their own way but still loved and kept in contact with their family, but Gil and Kelly asked them to Christmas dinner do you think they owe it to them to show up when asked?  Or should they be able to determine with whom they spend the holiday?

 

Oh Buffy darling! You clearly don't understand that these people, the Bateseses, are just peasants! (Like you by the way, that may be why you don't understand). You can't compare them with the Royal Family, the most royalest family evah! Even a fart from Charles' arse is more important than that, because he's going to be KING!

How can you not understand such an axiom? Oh yeah, the peasant thing, sorry darling, not everyone can be ROYAL.

28 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Do you think there needs to be immediate danger to avoid a sexual predator of underaged girls?

My kids are young adults and I wouldn't bring them around to socialize with one, even though none would be in the demographic to be assaulted.  

I wouldn't go anywhere where I had to be civil to a sexual predator.  To continue to treat them normally socially just normalizes them.  

Would you socialize with a sexual predator?

He's a ROYAL sexual predator. *Barf

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

I would not but neither of us know Meghan Markle’s personal feelings about the issue either way. Anyway There are far more likely reasons she may avoid want Christmas at the Queens estate than Randy Andy. 

Yes, but there is at least one perfectly good reason that we know of to avoid the royal Christmas. Taking in account that going to Christmas would be normalizing a sexual predator to their child, why are people clutching pearls about them skipping? Even if that isn't the reason, shouldn't we all be glad they aren't taking their child to spend Christmas with a sexual predator? 

ETA: Since the Queen is pretty openly supportive of a sexual predator, I don't think any of her kids or grandkids need to bend over backwards to come hang out with her. If the queen really valued her grandchildren and great-grandchildren then she wouldn't keep her son who preyed on underage girls around. 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by formergothardite

[tabitha2]

 

As I understand Harry and Meghan stay or stayed at another house on the estate.  They did not even have to Bring Archie to the Nursery wing where the younger Royal children stay with the nannies.Archie would be cared for by his own nannie.  Meg could leave quickly if need be. 
 

Normalize Andrew? The whole family including Kate and the other Royal mothers have been doing just that! They have largely gone on treating the same as they have always done.He  will soongo to daughters wedding and then party the night away.Whether Meghan went to play happy families At Christmas or not Really relevant on that matter

[Beermeet]

So, this happened 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8018043/Queen-BANS-Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-using-Sussex-Royal-brand-cost-thousands.html

I mean, I have to agree with HRM here.  You can definitely bail your family but you don't get to bail and profit from the title too.  She allows that and the house of cards falls. That's not how that family institution works.  

[Beermeet]

Maybe Harry chose Megan because she could/would help him out of royal duties.  I don't think he's some big sucker. But, I could be wrong.  Personally, I don't like the way they broke off.  So soon after it all started.  That wedding was EXPENSIVE, she got a tiara to wear, Frogmore.  IF the plan was to bail ( and, free will applies to them as well) than I think it's shitty they accepted such things.  Could Harry have wedded in a low key ceremony or bailed before the marriage?  I'm sure, right?  Bit, they didn't.  They got it all and titles.  Then, fled thinking they could simply stay rich by selling anything with Sussex Royal on it while steppingdown and living in a whole nother country. Nah bro. If they want out, then be truly out.  And, that's my opinion on that. 

Also, Andrew should be made to live underground in some unrenovated castle somewhere.  Completely alone, foraging for sustenance.  Jmo. 

[Beermeet]

9 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Visiting his family for Christmas for 3 days and staying away from the main house at that is hardly going to harm him , his wife or son.

How are they Toxic? He loves his dad and Grandparents , enjoys his stepmother, gets along with his cousins.  
 

William and Kate alternate years between families and they Also have participated in far more outings, dinners and events with the Queen and Other family members both together and separately. 

Imo, and keep in mind I'm a middle class American peasant with no stake in this besides feeling like discussing, IF it was so awful for them than why have that big wedding and have Charles walk her down the isle?  I don't think I'm alone in feeling like that was sweet and the right thing to do.  The Royal family had their backs.  This whole Megxit happened fast and seems rude to me.  Like it or not, the Royal family survives by keeping protocol.  After your family and tax payers support you through such a wedding andcall that, it's rude to bail.  Feels like Harry and Megan used them.  Which, I don't find appropriate.  But, I've got my own weird family to deal with so, I'll be over here ? watching occasionally. 

 

[AridityOfHeaven]

On 2/18/2020 at 11:22 AM, formergothardite said:

I really hate this idea that he "left" his family. Lots of people move away from family and leave the family business and I doubt people claim they abandon their families. I also hate implying that this is all Meghan because she wasn't comfortable with his family. 

If the royal family can't stay family if someone decides to break out of the mold then they weren't much of a family to begin with. 

You put a lot of words in my mouth. He left. They are royals and aren't like the rest of us mere mortals. He left the foundation he'd started with William. Clearly, he didn't think much of just her mother as having a family, or he wouldn't have said anything to the effect that Meghan had a family now.

He blindsided them with the announcement. For whatever his ways were before he married, he never struck me as a person to deliberately inflict pain on his dad or grandparents, yet he handled it that way. Meghan's fault? IDK. Maybe she's a rotten influence on him or maybe he's come into his own now that he has a little family to protect.

I still find sadly ironic that Harry made such a big deal about saving Meghan by inserting her into his "real" family, yet in a short amount of time, she's familyless again and now he pretty much is as well. Which also means Archie is too.

 

[just_ordinary]

13 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Sure they could.  But why should they have to.

Now, for me if the queen wanted to tie financial support with mandatory appearances...treating family as nothing more than employees...then fair.  They decide if they want to do X to get Y.  It's shitty and IMO would have to stem from a toxic dynamic, but if you want to live your own life, pay your own bills.

But unless they want to make it a purely business arrangement I will never understand how people think this family is owed anything so it's pointless for me to argue.

 

The thing is- her family members more or less are her employees. This mix is highly complicated and all royal families have to find ways to deal with it. 
I am not sure if we either under- or overestimate the time they actually spend together as family. With 200+ engagements a year, I think they don’t see each other a lot but who knows. And FaceTime or Skype can never replace real interaction in my opinion. It’s a good substitute but nothing more. 

There are no official words from them that make the BRF look toxic in any way. That’s just gossip. They never stated anything but love and being supported. The truth might be different but if that’s the case they shouldn’t lie. No one can force them (even cutting them off financially- they are loaded with money they actually own)- they could have stayed silent. Being corruptible is something I am very judgemental off if your personal situation is as privileged as theirs. That’s why I believe that they are as welcome, loved and supported as they, themselves claimed to be.

I agree that just because someone is old and might not have many days left you aren’t obligated to spend every possibility with them. But to opt out of both of two big family traditions is pretty telling. I actually understand the Christmas one. As a first time mum I wanted to physically be near my own mother (we actually hosted both sets so we both got what we wanted. It was perfect actually. Both grandmas cooked and cleaned up afterwards and we could just relax). It’s very possible they have their own traditions and it seams unfair to have her give that up. But this is often true for both partners, hence why so many alternate. 

Skipping summer is more obvious. They could have chosen the length and time to fit it into their plans. The Queen is there several weeks. It’s not just a couple of days period. Using the „baby is to young for the trip“ excuse was stupid. Wiliams alluded in an interview that Meghan actually brought Archie with her to the US when she visited her game. Too young for Scotland but fine for intercontinental travels? Even if not- Archie has probably more air miles than I already. So I think that was a shitty and lame excuse. They could have just claimed he is ill.

The utter disgrace Andrew though: I would understand if this was new information. This stories have been out for decades. It has always been there in the open. Harry would have been aware. Meghan maybe not. Distancing yourself from such a person is absolutely ok (even though I do wonder how easily people here in all places through around words like pedophile. From what we know- he is not. He probably was aware that the women weren’t there because they actual liked him, but he was probably excusing himself as they weren’t saying no but were explicitly taking action to please him. Even if it was because they were pressured to do so. He probably didn’t ask questions. It’s morally despicable but I don’t know if it is prosecutable. On a much smaller scale it’s the same as buying fast fashion or new phones and such. We all know under which circumstances children and women are working to supply us. There are millions of children living like slaves, working in toxic environments just so we can have the next gen iPhone.) It’s sad that his case wasn’t handled better and they have lost a lot of respect for this. Meghan and Harry could have decided to avoid him personally and still spend time with the others. If they disagree with how the family still spends time with him, they are absolutely entitled to cut family ties. But honestly- than they should have stopped taking anything from them from that point on. It would have been hush money. So I also believe they are fine with Andrew till they say otherwise. It will be telling if they are coming to Beatrice‘s wedding if they are invited or attend Trooping the Colour.

7 hours ago, Beermeet said:

So, this happened 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8018043/Queen-BANS-Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-using-Sussex-Royal-brand-cost-thousands.html

I mean, I have to agree with HRM here.  You can definitely bail your family but you don't get to bail and profit from the title too.  She allows that and the house of cards falls. That's not how that family institution works.  

I hope it’s true. I never understood why they wanted to use „royal“ for a endeavour explicitly separate from the BRF. It would have always looked like they are free riders with nothing to bring to the table but this. Which is probably true for Harry. If they want to succeed they need to foot their own bill without exploiting his families status. Otherwise they are just another rich kid doing something humanitarian instead of holding a real job.

 

I am still amazed that so many think it’s all Meghan though. It’s probably a dynamic and both are equally responsible for their actions. I wonder if she sometimes regrets marrying so fast. Harry seemed to be surprised and irritated that he didn’t get the deal he wanted. I think he will struggle for years and this cannot be easy on their marriage.

Edited February 20, 2020 by just_ordinary

[front hugs > duggs]

20 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

The Bates parents expect their children namely the daughters to become part of another family, leave and cleave and all

Not to harp on something slightly off topic, but this really isn't true. Like at all. Except for Alyssa, all the Bates son-in-laws have moved closer to the Bates compound, all the daughters are still right in a small radius around them.