Erin & Chad 6: Angling for a Vow Renewal Ceremony

[JillyO]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:40 AM, FaithAndReason said:

You don't need to apologize for a down vote. We don't all have to agree on our speculations. I'm sorry if I missed the rules prohibiting talking about the looks of children. But I stand by my opinion. I think if Brooklyn were more cute or beautiful like a Jinger Duggar, her perceived naughtiness would be overlooked or chalked up to "spunkiness" (which has a more positive connotation). In this cult, specifically for girls and women, physical beauty is a top, if not #1, value. I am surprised people would deny that. And it starts at birth for girls in the way they dress and present them to the public. JMHO. That is all. 

Nobody is denying that physical beauty is a highy valued trait for girls and women in IBLP (and, frankly, in the "real world"). Some posters here are merely objecting to the fact that you chose to characterize Brooklyn as "not a physical beauty or a cutie." This description didn't come from Erin or anyone else in the family, it came from you. There are plenty of indicators that Erin prefers Carson over her other kids: She has referred to him as her best friend multiple times; has said that she can't imagine going anywhere without him (while leaving her other, younger children at home); etc. But you chose to focus on a little kid's physical appearance - which is apparently lacking, according to your standards. You didn't even say "maybe Erin prefers Carson over her other kids because she thinks he looks the cutest," no, you literally stated Brooklyn's "average" looks and (perceived) lack of physical beauty as a fact. I think that's messed up and apparently I'm not the only one.

[FaithAndReason]

13 hours ago, JillyO said:

Nobody is denying that physical beauty is a highy valued trait for girls and women in IBLP (and, frankly, in the "real world"). Some posters here are merely objecting to the fact that you chose to characterize Brooklyn as "not a physical beauty or a cutie." This description didn't come from Erin or anyone else in the family, it came from you. There are plenty of indicators that Erin prefers Carson over her other kids: She has referred to him as her best friend multiple times; has said that she can't imagine going anywhere without him (while leaving her other, younger children at home); etc. But you chose to focus on a little kid's physical appearance - which is apparently lacking, according to your standards. You didn't even say "maybe Erin prefers Carson over her other kids because she thinks he looks the cutest," no, you literally stated Brooklyn's "average" looks and (perceived) lack of physical beauty as a fact. I think that's messed up and apparently I'm not the only one.

Sorry I didn't word my post the way that would have been acceptable for YOU and apparently everyone else on FJ. 

[AliceInFundyland]

5 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

Sorry I didn't word my post the way that would have been acceptable for YOU and apparently everyone else on FJ. 

Grow up.

[FaithAndReason]

6 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Grow up.

Here's my last set of comments.

First, I wasn't attacking a child. What I was doing was criticizing Erin and her cult's superficial emphasis on the value of women. They must be thin, they must have the gorgeous hair, they must wear the make up,  they must be physically beautiful, etc etc.  Christ, people have talked about this before of FJ and now I am the devil for bringing up the fact that this may influence an adult in the cult?? I seem to remember that Gothard only surrounded himself with the prettiest of girls. Erin grew up worshipping Gothard and his values. For whatever reasons, Brooklyn is not the preferred child in this family. While there may be many reasons for this, I believe one of them comes from their emphasis on beauty and Brooklyn is a plain looking child compared to the other girls in the Bates clan. There's nothing wrong with plain. I'm plain. But in fundie world it's a problem. And I think Erin is influenced by it whether she's aware of it or not. 

Second, I thought this site was not about loving fundies. That people on here are supposed to have thick skins and not get upset if their "pet" fundie is criticized by others. I see that's not actually the case.

Third, don't tell me to grow up. I was perfectly fine with the down votes from the original post and responded perfectly calmly to the person who explained her down vote. I even said it's ok for us all to have differing opinions about things we suspect about fundies. Since none of us live with Erin, we are all speculating on why Brooklyn isn't a favored child. And I am fine with us having different thoughts. What I am not fine with was the person who said if I worded things a different way (to suit the poster), then I would have passed some kind of acceptability test with my comments about how Erin's favor might be influenced by superficial looks. 

I'll never be able to word things properly for all the hundreds of people on this page. Get over it. 

[AliceInFundyland]

@FaithAndReason

I'm responding to your tone in the comment I quoted. You do yourself a disservice the more you talk about "everybody" and all of FJ.

Do you realize what a small percentage of the board is paying attention to this conversation? Not hundreds. You should ignore it and  move on. I guarantee you people will forget.

But if you don't, and you get in your feels, it will be more likely to be remembered.

... Just saying.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by AliceInFundyland

[SassyPants]

I am not getting this at all. IMO, all the Paine kids are indistinguishable from the next. They are all cute, as are their cousins. Now maybe, per her parents and other family members, BL is not as easy going as the others, and if so, GOOD FOR HER. Buck the system girl. Give those jackasses a run for their money. I like a kid with some spunk; one who questions and doesn’t necessarily or blindly follow the idiot in charge.

Edited May 13, 2020 by SassyPants

[Honey Beach]

Regarding Brookie's beauty, I think I understand what @FaithAndReason meant. I think Brooklyn is adorable and spunky and sassy, even pretty, but she's not as pretty as her Bates cousins.  She looks just like Chad to me.  Those Bates babies set a high bar when it comes to beauty.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, Honey Beach said:

Regarding Brookie's beauty, I think I understand what @FaithAndReason meant. I think Brooklyn is adorable and spunky and sassy, even pretty, but she's not as pretty as her Bates cousins.  She looks just like Chad to me.  Those Bates babies set a high bar when it comes to beauty.

I just looked up which one she is...she's THREE!

Are you people seriously ranking the looks of preschoolers?  Wow.

 

[HermioneSparrow]

All of those kids look the same to me: really cute normal kids. I feel like this conversation is perpetuating Fundies' infatuation about looks on women and it's completely damaging.

To me, Brooklyn isn't the favorite because she's a normal rambunctious three year old who doesn't keep sweet. (Big IF because maybe Erin just has one favorite, obviously Carson because he's the firstborn son and there's nothing else in there).

Edited May 14, 2020 by HermioneSparrow

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, HermioneSparrow said:

To me, Brooklyn isn't the favorite because she's a normal rambunctious three year old who doesn't keep sweet.

This.  I was what my mom called, "a lively girl" which was code for difficult.  Not everyone is a born people pleaser and thank God for that.

[TuringMachine]

19 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

Second, I thought this site was not about loving fundies. That people on here are supposed to have thick skins and not get upset if their "pet" fundie is criticized by others. I see that's not actually the case.

Oh please, this isn't people getting upset because your criticizing their pet fundie, this is people telling you that a small child with no say on what her asshole mother posts about her doesn't deserve to have her appearance publicly scrutinized by some random person on the internet. 

Needing to have a thicker skin is not wanting people point out to you that there's no evidence Alyssa Webster has any less toxic views than her parents despite her pants wearing.  Not wanting to judge a 3 year old's appearance is just common decency. 

[nvmbr02]

Honestly if you put Erin's older girls with Alyssa's older two and Zach's older girl I doubt I could tell them apart. They all look like normal preschool/kindergarten aged girls. Allie is the only one that stands out to me, and really it is only because her hair is a little darker and she is a bit older. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by nvmbr02

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, nvmbr02 said:

Honestly if you put Erin's older girls with Alyssa's older two and Zach's older girl I doubt I could tell them apart. They all look like normal preschool/kindergarten aged girls. Allie is the only one that stands out to me, and really it is only because her hair is a little darker and she is a bit older. 

I know people say that Allie favors Kelly, but I think she looks just like John. Zoey and Lexi favor Alyssa far more, IMO.

[HermioneSparrow]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I know people say that Allie favors Kelly, but I think she looks just like John. Zoey and Lexi favor Alyssa far more, IMO.

Completely agree. Allie looks exactly like John while her sisters are clones of Alyssa.

I do think Brooklyn and Allie stand out a bit because they look like their fathers while the other Bates little girls look 100% Bates. But they are all cute normal kids.

[AussieKrissy]

Reading this makes me thankful my little babe, was born to me. I can’t imagine how her brilliant little personality ways would be broken and lost in the toxic religious environment. My little girl carved her own path. She likes both traditional male and female things. Though does always lean more towards male. She hates hates hates dresses. She would just not fit. It makes me so sad to think that most probably most kids don’t fit into the duggar Bates ideal. Yet they are shoved, shoehorned, alerted , journey to the hearted and broken to fit it. Poor little babes. 
brookie is dam adorable. You little sass queen you. You break free and run baby. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

I actually think Brooklyn is the cutest of all the Bateseseseses grandkids. How sad that she is already labeled "bad". She's just a little kid. But maybe being "bad" will save her from having to be the head sistermom once Erin has had too many kids that she can't take care of. (Then again, wasn't Jana Duggar a "bad" kid when she was little?)

[TeaELSee]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This.  I was what my mom called, "a lively girl" which was code for difficult.  Not everyone is a born people pleaser and thank God for that.

Your Mom used gentler words than mine. I was called the “smartass”. 

It was true and my Mom was a smartass too.

[princessmahina]

2 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Your Mom used gentler words than mine. I was called the “smartass”. 

It was true and my Mom was a smartass too.

Better a smartass than a dumbass, I always say ?

 

I agree that Brooklyn looks like Chad. I think it’s adorable though. 

[Italiangirl]

Last night I dreamed of a pregnancy announcement from Erin and you guys were shocked because this was a thinner gap than the one between Carson and #2! Scary

[RosyDaisy]

In my opinion, Brooklyn is probably a little spitfire and doesn't keep sweet.  That's why Erin favors her less than her other kids.  I just pray they don't break her spirit.  Give 'em hell Brooklyn.  Don't let them break you.

[VineHeart137]

On 5/14/2020 at 11:30 AM, Honey Beach said:

Regarding Brookie's beauty, I think I understand what @FaithAndReason meant. I think Brooklyn is adorable and spunky and sassy, even pretty, but she's not as pretty as her Bates cousins.  She looks just like Chad to me.  Those Bates babies set a high bar when it comes to beauty.

I'm honestly so baffled by the fact that anyone on here thinks it's okay to utter the words "she's not as pretty as her cousins" about a THREE YEAR OLD. Then to go on and double down by saying it's because Bates kids are beautiful but (apparently unfortunately), she looks like a Paine. What is happening.

I too have always thought that Erin favors Carson but because, like others have said, Brooklyn doesn't seem to have as "sweet" a personality as fundies would like. The episode when Erin just HAD to bring Carson on a girls' only trip but didn't even mention Brooklyn sticks out to me as well.

[Honey Beach]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

I'm honestly so baffled by the fact that anyone on here thinks it's okay to utter the words "she's not as pretty as her cousins" about a THREE YEAR OLD. Then to go on and double down by saying it's because Bates kids are beautiful but (apparently unfortunately), she looks like a Paine. What is happening.

I guess I can have an opinion like everyone else.  I said she "is adorable, spunky and sassy, even pretty" and she looks like Chad, because she does.  I never said she was ugly, I said the Bates babies "set a high bar for beauty" because they do.  I find the Bates grandkids extra beautiful. 

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, Honey Beach said:

I guess I can have an opinion like everyone else.  I said she "is adorable, spunky and sassy, even pretty" and she looks like Chad, because she does.  I never said she was ugly, I said the Bates babies "set a high bar for beauty" because they do.  I find the Bates grandkids extra beautiful. 

As you said, these are opinions. You think Brook is not as pretty as other Bates, but other posters think she's prettier, and others think that all of them look the same.

So how can you be sure that your opinion is the only right one? Why are you sure that Erin finds her daughter not pretty enough? It is you who thinks that, but we have not any evidence of Erin sharing that opinion. Conversely, she usually points how sweet Carson is, while Brook is "spunky". Erin uses personality to label her kids, not physical features.

[VineHeart137]

2 hours ago, Honey Beach said:

I guess I can have an opinion like everyone else.  I said she "is adorable, spunky and sassy, even pretty" and she looks like Chad, because she does.  I never said she was ugly, I said the Bates babies "set a high bar for beauty" because they do.  I find the Bates grandkids extra beautiful. 

Right, the other EXTRA beautiful Bates grandkids set a bar that Brooklyn doesn't quite reach because she doesn't look like them. ? Poor kid's already being compared to other girls for her looks before she even reaches grade school.

[adidas]

I don’t follow the Bates family as much as I follow others ... can someone please confirm that this little girl is the one some people are saying is not a physical beauty? Is not a cutie? Is regular? Is average?

Y’all shoulda been to spec savers. She’s adorable imo.