Erin & Chad 6: Angling for a Vow Renewal Ceremony

[nelliebelle1197]

40 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Fuck me. I’m tired just reading that. 
can I have some of what drives you?

It’s two hours and ten mins  until Xmas and only half the Halloween decorations are away and there is no tree up yet. The kid just feel asleep. 
Seriously jealous of people like you who are driven and organised. Never has been me. 
Merry Xmas  to you and everyone on fj

 

Caffeine, Lexapro and online shopping.

[just_ordinary]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:29 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

Sorry. But no. A stay at home mom’s job is literally doing the house chores and caring for the kids. I do all the chores around the house and a work 40 plus hours a week in a demanding job. I have an arrangement where I come in at 6 and leave at 2 to get my kids. My afternoons are spent as a stay at home mom with homework, housework and lessons and tutors. I volunteer at the school and with the PTA and help my husband run his business. Oh yeah and part of my deal at work is that I am basically on cal 24/7 so I work too. 
 

I also spend countless hours here. And my house is pretty darn clean and perfect.

My husband, who works 50 plus hours a week, handles the morning routine and the yard work.  
 

Chad’s work is physically demanding and I guarantee he working much more than 40 hours a week to make that kind of small business work. He is exhausted. We can see it.

Buttercup needs to suck it up.

Good for you, I guess?

But honestly, not everyone can do it. I definitely couldn’t and that is ok. There is no competition or at least there shouldn’t be. If I would start comparing me to you I would probably get depressed real quick.

And no, I don’t think there is a defined job profile for SAHM. You could just be a mum that is not working outside the home. If you take on that job you are additionally a housekeeper/homemaker in my books. Just because in most cases those things go hand in hand doesn’t mean they are synonymous.

Erin has 4 children. She is basically running a daycare without getting paid directly and with no end of work. And she is pregnant/postpartum, while doing this a lot of the time- with no break before or after birth.

I think it’s absolutely fine to share duties around the home you are both living in. Just because someone brings in a paycheque doesn’t mean they are instantly released from those duties- if you didn’t specifically agreed otherwise.

Now, we all know they train those poor kids so they aren’t too much hassle. But they are still too young to be a real help, so every new addition will be on her work roll right now.

And I don’t believe for a second Chad works a 40+h week and does all the housework. Those fundie wife’s go all out if #besthubbyever does the dishes for once. Erin sure likes to boss him around and Chad seems to fine with helping more then others but I would be careful what conclusions we can draw from their narrative.

I am not pitying Erin or Chad. They are making their own beds. If he is unhappy it is up to him to do something about it. Being in this cult could only benefit him in this (?).

[16strong]

At this point, I'm emotionally invested in seeing just how many children Erin is going to cram in that tiny home, and for how long the humpers will justify it. "Leave Erin and Chad ALONE! There's nothing wrong with twelve kids sharing a tiny bedroom. Families in _____ do it all the time!"

[Melissa1977]

@just_ordinary I very much agree with your above statement. I think that home chores are the stay-at-home-adult job, but children care is not a home chore and cannot be considered a mom's duty only. SAHMs are going to raise the kids for long hours, but once the other parent comes home, it's a shared duty. No matter how tired is the working one, SAHM has also been working all the day. Children are not a chore, are persons that adults choose to have* and both parents must be responsible of the raising and caring.

Being a traditional SAHM means working ALL the day with no holidays while the traditional husband has breaks and rest. It's unfair. 

Erin must be training kids to be quiet and may go to Bates house to have a break, but 4 under 4 is physically exhausting. If Chad helps with laundry and children, he's just doing his duties, not that he's a saint.

*I know it's not always a free decision...

Edited December 26, 2019 by Melissa1977
Clarify

[ModestisHottest]

As a SAHM I mostly agree that home chores are my responsibility but I do think that sometimes this distinction doesn't work. For example, I cook dinner every night for my family and after dinner, I nurse our son to sleep.  Imagine if my husband just said, "I'm not going to clean the kitchen! That's Modest's job!" That would mean, either, once my son was asleep I'd have to clean the kitchen and my husband and I wouldn't be able to have much alone time in the evenings or we'd leave the kitchen messy until morning so I could clean it then.  Both of those options seem kind of silly when he could just clean it up while I'm putting our son to bed.  If he's not helping with the chores that arise when we're both home, it sort of seems like then his job is 40 hours a week but mine is 24/7/365, which doesn't fair at all.  Similarly, if the home chores are 100% the SAHP's job then what do weekends look like (assuming the working-for-a-paycheck partner is off)? Anyway, I do most of it but I'm glad I have a partner who doesn't think he's 100% on vacation when we're both home!

[Belugaloo]

1 hour ago, ModestisHottest said:

As a SAHM I mostly agree that home chores are my responsibility but I do think that sometimes this distinction doesn't work. For example, I cook dinner every night for my family and after dinner, I nurse our son to sleep.  Imagine if my husband just said, "I'm not going to clean the kitchen! That's Modest's job!" That would mean, either, once my son was asleep I'd have to clean the kitchen and my husband and I wouldn't be able to have much alone time in the evenings or we'd leave the kitchen messy until morning so I could clean it then.  Both of those options seem kind of silly when he could just clean it up while I'm putting our son to bed.  If he's not helping with the chores that arise when we're both home, it sort of seems like then his job is 40 hours a week but mine is 24/7/365, which doesn't fair at all.  Similarly, if the home chores are 100% the SAHP's job then what do weekends look like (assuming the working-for-a-paycheck partner is off)? Anyway, I do most of it but I'm glad I have a partner who doesn't think he's 100% on vacation when we're both home!

I don't have kids, or a husband, so keep in mind that im literally just thinking "maybe this would work??" without any real life experience to back it. I agree with your points... IMO I kind of look at it as- if you are both home, its like a job perk for the SAHM. While the husband is at work, the SAHM is "on the clock", when the husband is home, its the SAHMs break from work as well. Now, that doesnt mean she isn't doing chores or parenting, but instead that she is doing *less* because her husband is around to help out. It would make sense to me that things such as emptying the dishwasher, laundry, vacuuming, etc. should be done while the husband is at work because those are "bigger" chores and shouldn't be his job. But the "clean as you go" type chores such as cleaning off the dinner table can be shared by both parties when both parties are home. 

 

 

I think if I was a SAHM, I wouldn't expect my husband to do laundry or empty the dishwasher, etc. I would expect him to be a 50/50 partner when he was home, though. So if I was preparing for guests to come over and I was currently cleaning up the bathroom, it would be completely appropriate to ask him to clean up the living room. Id want to make sure that all of the major chores (laundry, vacuuming, dishes) were done before he got home from work though, because that would be *my* job. 

 

Again, I have no idea how realistic this is. I dont have kids or a husband. I have a 1 bedroom apartment and a full time job, and tbh I love cleaning so I might have a different idea of how exhausting it is to parent and clean a house that multiple people are living in. 

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, Belugaloo said:

Id want to make sure that all of the major chores (laundry, vacuuming, dishes) were done before he got home from work though, because that would be *my* job. 

If you have 4 children under 4, there is no.way the major chores can be done during your husband worktime. Sometimes it's impossible with just 1 baby!!!

Being a SAHM is hard. Physically and emotionally. Raising children is exhausting and fundies cannot even leave them in a daycare or at school! 

Being a SAHM is not like in a 50's movie. Some women love it, but it can be depressing, too. 

[Lgirlrocks]

Growing up my dad worked a full time job and a part time one. Six days a week. My mom worked part time, weeknights and weekends. My dad still helped out around the house. He helped with dishes and laundry. He also made sure that the kids were fed. He wasn’t a good cook but he always made sure we were fed. We also had chores from a young age. Nothing too crazy. I had to put away the silverware and clean the kitty litter box. When I got older I also dusted and helped vacuum. When a family works together it’s never 50/50 or 100/0. It’s whoever is there to do it or who ever enjoys doing it. My dad loved to cut the grass so he did. He was an electrician and fixed things around the house. 

[princessmahina]

On 12/24/2019 at 5:33 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

Caffeine, Lexapro and online shopping.

Holy shit Lexapro is a MIRACLE. I got it for my PPD and feel better than I did before getting pregnant. 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, princessmahina said:

Holy shit Lexapro is a MIRACLE. I got it for my PPD and feel better than I did before getting pregnant. 

Zoloft for me. Same same but different. When it kicked in, I was like holy shit, is this what “normal, balanced” people feel like? I needed it for years for pre and postnatal depression, but was in denial..

I am a better person and better Mum because of it. I hate fundies and Tom cruise for all the crap they spread about mental health meds. 

[front hugs > duggs]

Same for me with Effexor. But I'm meeting with my doctor soon because we're going to start TTC and I don't think that's one you can take while pregnant. I'm terrified of switching up my medication when I finally feel balanced and happy and "normal" for the first time in my life. 

[OldFadedStar]

On 12/29/2019 at 9:03 AM, Belugaloo said:

 

I think if I was a SAHM, I wouldn't expect my husband to do laundry or empty the dishwasher, etc. I would expect him to be a 50/50 partner when he was home, though. So if I was preparing for guests to come over and I was currently cleaning up the bathroom, it would be completely appropriate to ask him to clean up the living room. Id want to make sure that all of the major chores (laundry, vacuuming, dishes) were done before he got home from work though, because that would be *my* job. 

 

Again, I have no idea how realistic this is. I dont have kids or a husband. I have a 1 bedroom apartment and a full time job, and tbh I love cleaning so I might have a different idea of how exhausting it is to parent and clean a house that multiple people are living in. 
 

This was more obtainable before I had my daughter. My husband worked rotating shift work so I stayed home or else it’d be near impossible to spend time with him. I did 99% of the stuff around the house. 
 

but now I expect my husband to help out some. I haven’t figured out how best to approach this subject with my husband yet. 

[kmachete14]

I think it’s different for fundies too because they are also homeschooling. My mom was a SAHM and did all the laundry, shopping, cooking, Light cleaning (we still had a lady come twice a month to clean) & appts ... but she only had the baby with her while the older four were at school. So she was able to “get it all done” before we were home from school. My dad always did bath time and reading books before bed while my mom cleaned up after dinner, and we kids had chores also when we got older. However, seeing that their homeschooling is probably just packets and movies, maybe it’s not a big deal? And they hire outside help sometimes, like Kelly hires “tutors.” 
 

I want to be a stay at home mom and my reasoning to my husband is so that when he gets home from work, and on the weekends, we can do family things instead of chores. I’ll get them done during the day. I don’t know if this is realistic or what. I’m currently a teacher and i come home exhausted every day — I cant imagine ALSO doing chores and trying to spend time with our future kids! I used to babysit for a family where the mom worked and they did a ton of fun family things, but there was a trade off. Their house was disgustingly dirty (socks would turn black, dust and grease everywhere, kids rooms a mess). I wild clean and vacuum for them while I babysat date night because I was so grossed out. It’s just anecdotal, but it’s always stuck with me. 

[just_ordinary]

15 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

I think it’s different for fundies too because they are also homeschooling. My mom was a SAHM and did all the laundry, shopping, cooking, Light cleaning (we still had a lady come twice a month to clean) & appts ... but she only had the baby with her while the older four were at school. So she was able to “get it all done” before we were home from school. My dad always did bath time and reading books before bed while my mom cleaned up after dinner, and we kids had chores also when we got older. However, seeing that their homeschooling is probably just packets and movies, maybe it’s not a big deal? And they hire outside help sometimes, like Kelly hires “tutors.” 
 

I want to be a stay at home mom and my reasoning to my husband is so that when he gets home from work, and on the weekends, we can do family things instead of chores. I’ll get them done during the day. I don’t know if this is realistic or what. I’m currently a teacher and i come home exhausted every day — I cant imagine ALSO doing chores and trying to spend time with our future kids! I used to babysit for a family where the mom worked and they did a ton of fun family things, but there was a trade off. Their house was disgustingly dirty (socks would turn black, dust and grease everywhere, kids rooms a mess). I wild clean and vacuum for them while I babysat date night because I was so grossed out. It’s just anecdotal, but it’s always stuck with me. 

If you want to be a SAHM more power to you. But you do realise millions of families have two working parents and they do just fine having time as a family and having a clean and tidy homes. 
What I would like to know- how does your husband feel about it? Being the sole paycheque earner is a lot of pressure (I certainly wouldn’t want that and my husband wouldn’t want that either). Was that always something hanging in the air? I always wonder how discussions go down if a woman just decides that this is what she wants. I guess it’s a mutual decision in most cases. And what happens if a man would like to stop working. My husband always said that would be something to talk about if we had the money.
 

It’s funny most Dads in our circle of friends seem to be really taken by the idea of being SAHD. But it’s also the norm that caring for the babes is a 24h/365d responsibility for both parents as are home chores. Depending on shifts, preferences and the baby’s needs (breastfeeding) and energy levels that can always mean one is tackling more around the house even if the other stayed home the whole week. Childcare can be exhausting and time consuming. There is a reason why it’s a payed profession. When I was on parental leave there where definitely days when I just counted the minutes till my husband took over after work and tidied and cooked. It was the same when he was on parental leave and I started working again. 

[kmachete14]

@just_ordinary I am a teacher with an initial license. To continue teaching we have to pay for my masters degree, and then the amount of money I make even with a masters degree doesn’t seem to outweigh future nanny, daycare, maid service, etc. again, it’s all hypothetical. Daycare or nannies for two kids is a lot cheaper than for 5 (I am one of 5). If we have that many kids, what’s even the point of me working? Not to mention, I wouldn’t be paid during maternity leave anyways. 
 

and then there’s the point that teachers have to take their work home. My husband would prefer I be helping our kids with their homework, not grading other kids’ work instead. 
 

My husband thinks being a stay at home dad would be awesome, but he makes 4x as much as me, and also thinks owning a home and paying for our kids college is awesome too. It would be close to impossible for me to support a large family, but if he lost his job, I’d try!! 
 

but again — all hypothetical. Who knows, maybe I hate being a stay at home mom and decide working, even if it is just to pay for someone else to watch my kids, is worth it! 
 

In the end, we both like the idea of having all the chores taken care of so we can use free time for leisure/family, and recognize that his salary (and we are very fortunate) is enough to support a future family. Also I am not counting taking care of the kids when we are both home as “chores.” 
 

Some people are totally capable (or rise to the occasion) of working 9 hours and coming home cheerfully to multitask spending time with kids/checking hw, sports activities, cooking, continuing work at home, doing chores, and having family time together, etc. I just know that’s not my stamina unless I really dug deep during a time of need. 
 

I should add — this has always been an ambition of mine, it’s not like I sprung it on him. 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by kmachete14

[Melissa1977]

@kmachete14 I'm a working mom and my house is clean, clothes ironed, etc. I've seen filthy homes with a SAHM in it (a couple toddlers at home don't make cleaning easy!). It depends a lot on what work schedule you have, I suppose. My husband and me have the typical office timetables, so life is easier, we do not need babysitters to pick up the kids after school.

I know I'm not living in the same country as you, so maybe my advice is not useful, but I feel a bit scared when a young woman plans to be a SAHM forever. It's no doubt a great option when you have babies, but life is long and marriage is not the life-long commintment it used to be in the past. You may face divorce or your husband's illness or other difficulties and then, what would you do without a career? 

I know there are pensions and assurances and that people are able to overcome the worst situations. And of course millions of SAHM around the world may prefer to be at home that to have a job, for a lot of good reasons. So I'm not against SAHMs, but just wanted to explain why a lot of us prefer to be working mothers and pay daycares and be exhausted: some because need the money for living, and others because want to be independent.

[just_ordinary]

55 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

@kmachete14 I'm a working mom and my house is clean, clothes ironed, etc. I've seen filthy homes with a SAHM in it (a couple toddlers at home don't make cleaning easy!). It depends a lot on what work schedule you have, I suppose. My husband and me have the typical office timetables, so life is easier, we do not need babysitters to pick up the kids after school.

I know I'm not living in the same country as you, so maybe my advice is not useful, but I feel a bit scared when a young woman plans to be a SAHM forever. It's no doubt a great option when you have babies, but life is long and marriage is not the life-long commintment it used to be in the past. You may face divorce or your husband's illness or other difficulties and then, what would you do without a career? 

I know there are pensions and assurances and that people are able to overcome the worst situations. And of course millions of SAHM around the world may prefer to be at home that to have a job, for a lot of good reasons. So I'm not against SAHMs, but just wanted to explain why a lot of us prefer to be working mothers and pay daycares and be exhausted: some because need the money for living, and others because want to be independent.

That’s one of the reasons why I would work if we could easily and comfortably afford me staying at home. 
Poverty among seniors is a thing (especially with people living longer on their pension and needing more care the older they get). It hits women extra hard. They have statistically 25% less pension because they are over represented in lower income jobs (care sector for example) and because they are often the ones that drop out of their jobs for years or stop working full time. Coming back into the job market isn’t always easy.
As long as you have a well paid partner it’s fine but divorce/separation, bad investments, death, illness and unemployment are a real threats. Old generations already realise that only one full income pension might not be enough. 
Paying a ton of money for nursery (thankfully kindergarten (age 3-6) will be free) is basically an investment in my pension.

[SassyPants]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, Lgirlrocks said:

Growing up my dad worked a full time job and a part time one. Six days a week. My mom worked part time, weeknights and weekends. My dad still helped out around the house. He helped with dishes and laundry. He also made sure that the kids were fed. He wasn’t a good cook but he always made sure we were fed. We also had chores from a young age. Nothing too crazy. I had to put away the silverware and clean the kitty litter box. When I got older I also dusted and helped vacuum. When a family works together it’s never 50/50 or 100/0. It’s whoever is there to do it or who ever enjoys doing it. My dad loved to cut the grass so he did. He was an electrician and fixed things around the house. 

Yep. That was how it was in our home too. The thing is, SAHPs aren’t going off to work anywhere, for pay,  outside the home. They spend most of their time at home. Anyone here believe that Erin routinely fires up the lawnmower when Chad is away working? Yet Chad should do laundry in the evening? Yep, 4 little kids is a lot, that’s why most sane people use some form of family planning!

[neuroticcat]

I’ve homeschooled and it adds considerably to the workload. The spread of ages matters too. If all kids are little together it’s easier than spread out ages, and when they’re older they have more independence and free time.

I think this is why there’s such a high amount of sibling-parenting going on in fundie families. It is logistically impossible for two parents -no matter who is staying home- to do all the things for all the kids and the house and provide sufficient income. 

 

 

[Johannah]

I have been a SAHM. I currently work part-time, and there was a period of time when my husband changed his full-time work schedule so he could stay home part-time while I was working. I disagree with a lot of other posters about division of domestic labor. My husband and I have agreed that the person who is at home is 100% responsible for the kids, and when both parents are home kid duty is split 50/50. Household chores are divided nearly equally regardless of who works or how often. We see being home with the kids as being in charge of the kids. That’s it. That’s a full-time job in and of itself. And when they nap, that’s the only time you have to rest yourself, or eat lunch, or take a shower, or catch up on emails. Granted, we have two very young children, so I assume things would be different if we had kids who were going to school, but for now, whoever is home with them is 100% devoted to kids and only kids. We both agree it is significantly harder than going to work. There is no time for other household chores or catching up on emails, etc, aside from a few minutes here and there. We both have pretty demanding jobs, and it would honestly be easier to hypothetically try to fit in dishes and laundry while we were at work than while we were at home alone with our kids. We do laundry and dishes and any major cleaning when both of us are at home, and usually when the kids are asleep. I can’t even imagine what it’s like to have 4 young kids at home who you also homeschool. And I don’t understand this expectation that a full-time parent should also be a full-time housekeeper. 

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, Johannah said:

And I don’t understand this expectation that a full-time parent should also be a full-time housekeeper

Traditional mothers have always been, in theory. What many people do not understand is that those traditional mothers weren't devoted to the children. Back in the old times, very short aged children played in the streets with older ones, or were supervised by grandmas or siblings.

It is difficult to be a pinterest mom (bright tidy home plus playing with kids plus wearing make up plus...). Some kids are good sleepers, some moms are well organised and the outcome is better, but generally speaking is you focus on the babies/toddlers, home chores are probably being delayed. 

How can SAHM fundies have 4 under 4 or 5 under 5 and survive? I suspect that their houses are more a mess than they show in IG, their homeschooling is very basic AND lots of children harsh training. 

Another important detail is that being all the day at home with toddlers can be suffocating. I know some SAHMs whose "breaks" are when the husband takes the kids to the park and they can clean alone. Because the urge to have quiet time! So sad, so true.

Again, I know being a SAHM can be fulfilling and they some people are great multitasking. But the reality of the ordinary SAHM is more Jessa's than Jinger's haha.

[Johannah]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I know some SAHMs whose "breaks" are when the husband takes the kids to the park and they can clean alone. Because the urge to have quiet time! So sad, so true.

Again, I know being a SAHM can be fulfilling and they some people are great multitasking. But the reality of the ordinary SAHM is more Jessa's than Jinger's haha.

So true! I have definitely had the experience of my husband taking the kids out being a break for me, whether to clean or take a shower or make a phone call.

The difference is that when you choose to be a SAHM and you are not a fundie, there is always the option that you could be working instead if you want to. I have done both. And may switch back to being a SAHM for awhile at some point, especially if I decide to have another baby, and then go back to work again.

Also, the chaos of having very young children is short-lived if you are allowed to choose how many children you have, and that number is not 19. Plus, for non-fundies, they eventually go to school. 

For fundies, there’s never a choice. Work is never an option, there’s never an end in sight to this “phase of life,” and if your husband ever does do something like take the kids to the park so you can stay home to clean! he gets praised ad nauseam for being the best hubby ever and “helping out” with taking care of his own damn kids. 

[VBOY9977]

So idk where to put this but Dakota Paine is posting some Instagram stories about life with two kids under two while being pregnant again. Just watching it was completely exhausting. I can’t imagine having kids so close together. 

[HereticHick]

3 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

So idk where to put this but Dakota Paine is posting some Instagram stories about life with two kids under two while being pregnant again. Just watching it was completely exhausting. I can’t imagine having kids so close together. 

We had high hopes for newly married Dakota because she didn't get pregnant right away (and wore a non-wholesome wear swimsuit) but I guess she's trying to catch up with her fundy siblings.

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

We had high hopes for newly married Dakota because she didn't get pregnant right away (and wore a non-wholesome wear swimsuit) but I guess she's trying to catch up with her fundy siblings.

Is she the one married to the convicted rapist?

Or the one that honeymooned somewhere warm and had normal swimmers? (for some reason I thought that was a daughter in law and not a daughter).