Erin & Chad 6: Angling for a Vow Renewal Ceremony

[SassyPants]

Just circling back here. Maybe after the miscarriages,  clotting disorders necessitating early deliveries, infertility, a baby with a heart issue and now Erin’s very real reproductive health issues, that these folks would pause, think and reframe their ideas on reproduction. Maybe? Maybe they could formulate more balanced ideas and goals where women are concerned. All the Talk about taking what Jesus gives, well doesn’t that thought end with him taking away as well? How about we encourage both males and females to be as multidimensional as they want to and can be? Why put such strict sex stereotypes restrictions?  What happens to the psyche of these  very isolated and sheltered women who lose their only approved and viable life goal and role? Again, these folks need to stop, pause and think about how they are setting their daughters up for heartache.

1 hour ago, Grace said:

I wonder how many QF women would be secretly relieved to have something out of their control block their fertility after they had several kids. For someone who doesn't have the temperament for eleventy thousand kids to know you wouldn't likely get to a point of overwhelm but you didn't do anything 'selfish' or 'sinful' to make that happen must feel like God smiling down on you ?

And young men too, in terms of not having to find a way to feed all those mouths.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Even if Erin doesn't go thru early menopause, can we assume that having only one partial ovary means that her fertility is significantly decreased because of significantly decreased egg production?

And I have also had multiple friends who found IVF so expensive, painful and emotionally/hormally overwhelming that they vowed not to go through it a second time. I especially remember one friend who wanted to have another child, but didn't think she could go through IVF again while  being a parent. Others' experiences may differ.

Eggs are not  produced in the ovaries; eggs are stored. Women have all the eggs from birth. They are released usually one at time. 

Assuming she still has eggs in the remaining partial ovary, she has the possibility of having children. And that is before fertility treatments and adoption. 

She probably won't have as many kids as her mother and that's good for all involved. If she doesn't have more kids, she still has four beautiful children. 

[lumpentheologie]

Y'all have way more sympathy than I do for an almost 30 year old fundie who does terrible things to the kids she already has. 

[OHFL2009]

1 hour ago, lumpentheologie said:

Y'all have way more sympathy than I do for an almost 30 year old fundie who does terrible things to the kids she already has. 

I have sympathy for her having to go through an extremely painful and most likely terrifying medical event. I have no sympathy for her potential loss of fertility. 

[SassyPants]

30 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

I have sympathy for her having to go through an extremely painful and most likely terrifying medical event. I have no sympathy for her potential loss of fertility. 

My only sympathy is the fact that her cult’s only role for her as a person has been limited, despite her being as compliant as possible, and how she must integrate and deal with that fact. At least she has a role model in her older sister. 

[Jackie3]

I wonder if Erin has mixed feelings about her reduced fertility, and feels guilty about that. 

I understand that fundyism has been good to her, and as a result, she has embraced it's worldview (at least she doesn't SEEM like a muckraker or boundary stretcher). She had her mom as a role model and probably feels like she needs at least 7-8 kids to feel like she has her "creds." Kind of like needing a college degree, in the real world. 

OTOH, she seems like a creative person with lots of other interests, besides kids. She loves playing the piano and she makes CDs. It is not easy to play seriously when you have a toddler in the house. Nine times out of ten, the toddler thinks, "Oh, mommy's playing the piano, I'll go play with her, she'll love that" and goes and bangs on the keys. It's not the best environment for serious practicing. 

She also seemed like she liked teaching piano. She seems excited about selling cheap dresses online. She likes to decorate homes (I'm not a fan of her style, but whatever).

She seems like there's a lot she wants to do and learn about. Having a baby every year would not have helped her with these things.

[fluffernutter]

19 hours ago, mysweetetc said:

I think it's okay to feel badly for Erin even though she has four kids. It's not about being greedy. For some women (myself included), the loss of fertility is a tough pill to swallow, even if it's for the best.

I have three beautiful kids (2 boys and 1 girl) and had no plans to have any more when I had to have my hysterectomy at age 31 several years ago. I still don't think I would choose to have more if I had the option, but that doesn't mean that it didn't hurt like hell to have that door permanently close behind me. I imagine that, for Erin, being QF and probably placing a lot of self-worth in bearing children, it stings even more.

We had three and we knew we were done. But the night before my husband's vasectomy, I was so so sad. It was the end of that sweet baby time and I did grieve it being over, even though we both knew we didn't want any more kids. So yes, I agree I think she will be feeling all kinds of sadness if she is looking at the end of her baby days. 

[BookwormExtraordinaire]

I think some other QF women might be secretly relieved if it turned out they couldn't have more kids after having a couple in quick succession, but I think Erin in particular enjoys being pregnant and having babies, even if it sometimes seems that the attention and recognition she gets is what she enjoys the most. I could definitely see her taking infertility at a young age very hard and struggling to adjust to being a woman who can no longer have babies. However, I think Erin will have a hard time adjusting to that new "season of life" regardless if it happens now or at age 45, similarly to Michelle Duggar who for years seemed unable (or unwilling) to realise that she would have no more children. 

[Grace]

22 hours ago, mysweetetc said:

I think it's okay to feel badly for Erin even though she has four kids. It's not about being greedy. For some women (myself included), the loss of fertility is a tough pill to swallow, even if it's for the best.

I have three beautiful kids (2 boys and 1 girl) and had no plans to have any more when I had to have my hysterectomy at age 31 several years ago. I still don't think I would choose to have more if I had the option, but that doesn't mean that it didn't hurt like hell to have that door permanently close behind me. I imagine that, for Erin, being QF and probably placing a lot of self-worth in bearing children, it stings even more.

I think a possible progression is that she will.feel really sad and down about it for quite a while. Then her kids will start to get more independent and once the youngest is wiping their own but and getting their own snacks and doing chores that are actually helpful she will get a load of that free time and thing 'Oooooookay there Lord..... I'm picking up what you're putting down. This is actually pretty great'

[SassyPants]

40 minutes ago, Grace said:

I think a possible progression is that she will.feel really sad and down about it for quite a while. Then her kids will start to get more independent and once the youngest is wiping their own but and getting their own snacks and doing chores that are actually helpful she will get a load of that free time and thing 'Oooooookay there Lord..... I'm picking up what you're putting down. This is actually pretty great'

I hope that this is true. Look at Michaela, she moved on to nursing school. KJ was such a poor role model for these girls, but....at least Gil and KJ encouraged training, school, tangible skills for their daughters which is light years ahead of JB and M Duggar.

[Lgirlrocks]

I hope that Erin doesn’t think that good is punishing her for something. When my dad was sick with MS and couldn’t work, a lot of my parents “Christian” friends told my mom that god was punishing him for something. If he prayed and wasn’t healed he wasn’t truly sorry. My dad spent many nights crying out to god and praying. He was never healed and passed away. I know that fundies are a product of their environments. They have hateful views. I don’t want her to feel it’s her fault. 

[SassyPants]

20 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I hope that Erin doesn’t think that good is punishing her for something. When my dad was sick with MS and couldn’t work, a lot of my parents “Christian” friends told my mom that god was punishing him for something. If he prayed and wasn’t healed he wasn’t truly sorry. My dad spent many nights crying out to god and praying. He was never healed and passed away. I know that fundies are a product of their environments. They have hateful views. I don’t want her to feel it’s her fault. 

I hate when people weaponize religion. If individual people can’t use religious tenets to enhance their own lives or help and lift up others, religion is basically useless. 
 

So these folks have made a living off of God-Jesus and procreation. If they can’t procreate they had better start leaning hard on the other elements. And what I mean by that statement is start living Jesus and stop talking about him; let Jesus shoulder some of the burden. 

[Mama Mia]

I was curious if they are open  to taking hormones if it suppresses ovulation, but also helps suppress  the cysts- thus possibly preserving any future chances of conception down the road? That seems like a possible moral quandary for them.
 

My daughter is Erin’s age and very prone to ruptured / bleeding cysts. They put her on the  pill for non-birth control reasons. It seems to have helped a great deal-  (not entirely eliminating the issue though) 
theoretically- being on the pill keeps her ovaries still functional (no menopause), less likely to need further surgeries, and a potential down the line to produce viable eggs.  For someone like Erin would that be a consideration? 
 

It sounds like Erin may be past that point, and with more severe issues, and she already has a good sized family - but for fundamentalists in general - would they consider hormonal treatment if it caused a temporary halt to fertility, but a shot at possible future pregnancies? 

 

[Vivi_music]

18 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I hope that Erin doesn’t think that good is punishing her for something. When my dad was sick with MS and couldn’t work, a lot of my parents “Christian” friends told my mom that god was punishing him for something. If he prayed and wasn’t healed he wasn’t truly sorry. My dad spent many nights crying out to god and praying. He was never healed and passed away. I know that fundies are a product of their environments. They have hateful views. I don’t want her to feel it’s her fault. 

You know, not only fundamentalist christians do that kind of thing.

When my grandpa was diagnosed with his final cancer, we knew he was gonna die from this one. It was inevitable. An aquaintance of mine (I won't call her a friend, because lets just say I decided it was best to not keep that person in my life) was very into yoga, meditation, clearing her aura, eating clean, removing the toxins from her body, etc. And she had the audacity to tell me that my grandpa had cancer because he didn't listen to his body and wasn't in touch with his inner self. I swear I could have slapped her right there and then. According to her, illnesses were a message from your body, telling the person they needed to align and clean their soul. The audacity to imply that a cancer is automatically the patient's fault, because that person didn't do enough medidation or whatever.

Of course she didn't know anything about my grandfather. She had no clue he already had survived 2 previous tumors in his lifetime. One of these tumors located in his brain was treatable but left him partially deaf from one ear. He had to have an earing aid from his 40's onward. I guess when he was able to beat cancer those first two times he was in touch enough with his inner chakras right? ?

*Of course, we always say that fundie don't represent all Christians and that most Christians don't think illnesse are caused by sin. So believe me, I know not all yogis think that a patient is to blame for what he/she is going through.

 

[ophelia]

I'm so sorry you had to experience this. People like that make me incredible angry. A former neighbour of ours died of cancer, leaving her 15 year old son alone in the world since she decided to treat her illness with tea and yoga and ditched all medical advice.

[RosyDaisy]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:14 AM, lumpentheologie said:

Y'all have way more sympathy than I do for an almost 30 year old fundie who does terrible things to the kids she already has. 

I agree.  Add to that the blatant disregard for others during this pandemic, actively seeking to strip other's of their rights, and wanting to create a theocracy.  I have a hard time mustering any sympathy.

[nokidsmom]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:14 AM, OHFL2009 said:

I have sympathy for her having to go through an extremely painful and most likely terrifying medical event. I have no sympathy for her potential loss of fertility. 

Erin's definitely had a bad year between long Covid and now the surgeries that limits her fertility possibly to the point that no more babies may be coming.

That's going to be tough for her given she seemed pretty vested in having kids in spite of her health issues.  It's a shame she was raised with the idea that having as many kids as possible proved a woman's value.   Hopefully that in time she might come to realize that there are other things in life that are just as valuable such as time to actually raise her family instead of delegating to a sister-mom or teaching piano more.

What might be difficult for Erin might turn out to be beneficial to the family.  Chad seems to have enough to juggle with his family as it is, I am surprised he has not given in to exhaustion.   It won't get easier with more kids.   They are still in that tiny house.   As cute as it is, Erin was heading into children stacked like cordwood territory.   Even if they never move, at least there might not be that many more kids, if any, taking up more of the space.  And let's not forget that the girls may have avoided sister-momhood.   Sure they will be engaged to help but they won't have the same level of responsibilities with a family of only 4 kids. 

 

 

[AussieKrissy]

all in all (possibly forced) no more babies for Erin may in the end be a blessing in disguise. Hopefully she is able to overcome and heal her negative emotions and find joy and comfort in what she has got rather than what she "missed out on"

Mind you I would never say this to someone in the midst of their initial pain but may gentle mention it when I see that they are working towards the feelings themselves. I would never say it to someone who lost the ability to have any kids at all. 

[nokidsmom]

39 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Mind you I would never say this to someone in the midst of their initial pain but may gentle mention it when I see that they are working towards the feelings themselves. I would never say it to someone who lost the ability to have any kids at all. 

I hope that people are kind to Erin and avoid mentioning things like "blessing in disguise", that sort of thing, be it from family or fans  Even if she comes to see it that way, it's still a loss for her that she has to come to terms with and that will take time.  Even then, she might have some lingering feelings about it that will crop up from time to time. 

[Jasmar]

I’m glad there is a much lower chance now of more innocent children being born into the cult. 

[indianabones]

Now that we know Erin may be unable to have more kids, this caption makes a bit more sense than her just having prolonged case of COVID...

Edited February 11, 2021 by indianabones

[Jackie3]

I wonder who took that picture. Did Erin and Chad just happen to have it? Or did they say to someone, "Please take a picture of us looking sad and grieving, with shadows. We want to make a post about something sad that happened." 

I feel badly for her, because I know she must be terribly disappointed. But I'm glad there are no more kids to be sleep trained, harshly disciplined, taught rigid gender roles and given limited options in life. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

11 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I feel badly for her, because I know she must be terribly disappointed. But I'm glad there are no more kids to be sleep trained, harshly disciplined, taught rigid gender roles and given limited options in life. 

There is still a small chance she can get pregnant again. She can also have fertility treatments or adopt. This will shrink her quiver, but I'm not sure she's done. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[AussieKrissy]

17 hours ago, indianabones said:

Now that we know Erin may be unable to have more kids, this caption makes a bit more sense than her just having prolonged case of COVID...

agreed, reading it through the lens of what we know now it does sound like they have been told you will not be having more children " path we would've never chosen.'

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I know they’re suffering, and I feel bad about saying this, but I feel like that post says, “We had this idiotic idea to have umpteen children, but God, who has better sense, has put an end to it.”