Seewalds 42: Trying to Stay Relevant

[crancraz]

I’ve worked in early childhood and intervention services for a few years in AZ. Services are free but the big caveat is IF a kid qualifies. Here, it is exceedingly difficult for children who are on the cusp of having delays to qualify for early intervention. There are so many referrals that EI has difficulty keeping up with just screening kids, much less doing case management to connect them. It’s a huge huge problem. 

[Daisy0322]

15 hours ago, Bobology said:

It stinks, but that is the way it is. A lot of speech-delayed kids who do not have developmental disabilities may  begin talking around 3rd birthday. There are some, of course, who do not and who have severe speech difficulties like the motor-planning (Childhood Apraxia of Speech, maybe?) that @Daisy0322 mentioned above. And CAS is like many things in that there is a wide range from very mild to severe on the continuum. And it cannot be officially diagnosed until age 3 or later.

That's pretty much what we were told. Since he scores well everywhere else, in motor skills he's actually ahead. I'm concerned because I'm dyslexic I'm afraid I passed it down but we will see with time and even if he is too it's not like I didn't graduate high school or even college... I'm about to start on my masters next year. I just know how hard it was until I learned how I could learn and I hate to see him go through that. 

[Mama Mia]

Rewatching the episode, I noticed how while Henry was only at 6% on the curve - Jessa said he only said Mama and Dada a few weeks before - but now seemed to have around a dozen words total. Picking them up right before the scheduled services and testing. My hunch is he’ll probably just go from non-talker to talking within the next few months. Since the show is about 6 months behind, it would be interesting to see where he’s at now. 

[Plum78]

My youngest daughter has Speech Dyspraxia/Apraxia. 

I’m in the UK & she was under a Speech and Language Therapist (SALT) from the age of 2 1/2. She was/is a great communicator but just didn’t have the verbal skills.  She had about 12 words at 3 1/2 when she went to pre-school & used Makaton to communicate, as her language has built up she’s automatically dropped sign language. She’s 6 now & still struggles. Speech Dyspraxia is a lifelong issue. She has no other learning issues & is massively supported in her state primary school. Despite speech therapy being difficult to access for over 5’s her school has a SALT onsite & she still has a few sessions with her. 

I’m very lucky where I live as our children’s services are excellent. 

[Belugaloo]

22 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary.  Given the choice, I would've preferred zero therapy in my early childhood because what I got was sanctioned abuse.  My younger cousins internalized this worse than I did and see themselves as defective even now, as teenagers.  There's too much emphasis on perfectionism in this world pressuring families of non neurotypical children.  I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible, either.

I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience with therapy as a child! Reading that sentence was really upsetting - I am a therapist and most of my clients are around the 4-6 age range. I hope none of them are ever harmed by the services they've received. I agree rushing kids to talk isn't necessarily important- I think the point with Henry was that he is clearly frustrated not being able to say what he wants. Jessa mentioned that more than once, and his screaming when he didnt get his way during one moment was upsetting for me because he clearly couldn't say what he was thinking. 

[BernRul]

23 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary.  Given the choice, I would've preferred zero therapy in my early childhood because what I got was sanctioned abuse.  My younger cousins internalized this worse than I did and see themselves as defective even now, as teenagers.  There's too much emphasis on perfectionism in this world pressuring families of non neurotypical children.  I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible, either.

Sorry if this is an intrusion, but that wasn't ABA therapy by any chance?

[BernRul]

23 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

What happened to me occurred at a secular research university and what happened to my cousins was government funded through means that didn't exist in my generation.  I greatly dislike pressure to make kids "normal", period.  That's my perspective based on my trauma and the trauma of others in my life.  

I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible.  It's panic over delay that makes me uncomfortable.

I know some people reacted to this with confusion, and I get that this is going against the norm, but you have a point.

The neurodiversity movement is entirely about this. I've been doing a lot of research on this lately, and some of the numbers have been a bit shocking. Autistic adults have a high rate of suicide, much higher than normal. Research has found that one cause is camoflauging or masking: that is, pretending not to be autistic. So trying to act "normal" correlates with suicidal thoughts and attempts.

Here's a source:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6069847/

Problem is, "a scientifically based" autism intervention program, ABA, is entirely based on teaching children to hide their autistic traits.  And some autistic adults have come out and said that's abuse.

https://theaspergian.com/2019/11/11/i-worked-at-an-aba-clinic-it-was-abuse/

https://awnnetwork.org/my-thoughts-on-aba/

https://sociallyanxiousadvocate.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/why-i-left-aba/

https://theaspergian.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/

 

So it's a little unfair to just dismiss @raspberrymint and her experiences. She lived it. She's a neurodiverse person whose oppinion and input should be valid.

@raspberrymint I'm sorry that happened to you. I don't know what kind of therapy you had, but  I'm sorry they tried to force you to be something you weren't. 

I want to add that I am very PRO therapy and intervention that is understanding of the kid, and helping them develop things like communication and motor control, without changing who they are. But not all therapies are created equal, so we shouldn't dismiss people who say they had a negative experience with one.

Edited November 27, 2019 by BernRul
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[OyHiOh]

23 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary.  Given the choice, I would've preferred zero therapy in my early childhood because what I got was sanctioned abuse.  My younger cousins internalized this worse than I did and see themselves as defective even now, as teenagers.  There's too much emphasis on perfectionism in this world pressuring families of non neurotypical children.  I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible, either.

My son has PTSD attached to not being able to communicate.  The anxiety he still experiences when he can't get a word or concept across clearly, approaching the end of grade school, is intense and well outside the "normal" frustration tolerance for his age.  

I talked about his struggles a few pages back - that at about Henry's age, my son could speak 6 words clearly.  Every other syllable out of his mouth at that point was "gah."  He self harmed all the time - banging his head on the floor or any hard surface within reach, hard enough to cause injury.  For my son, play-based speech therapy was life saving.  We didn't get enough, early enough, to mitigate the long term impact of not being able to talk on his mental health but it's better than could have been.  A smart, bright child who can't communicate experiences real, lasting mental health consequences when they don't have the ability to communicate needs and ideas.  My son refers to the four long years when he couldn't talk as "when I was sick."  Lack of speech very much was the illness and therapy was the necessary cure.  He would not have gotten better without it.

Therapy should never be abusive.  Children with apraxia absolutely do need to repeat sounds hundreds or even thousands of times to fix the motor pathway from brain to mouth.  But toddlers and preschoolers should do the vast majority of that repetition through play.  Through dance and movement games and toys that develop sensory cues to go along with the therapy goals.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

Alright here's my two cents as an autistic adult who did NOT receive any services as a child. ABA is widely considered by autistic adults to be harmful because it focuses on hiding autistic traits. However, my understanding is that ABA is NOT speech therapy and the two would be vastly different. I'm not trying to invalidate the experiences of anyone here but if Henry was receiving speech therapy that would be very different from receiving ABA services. 

I hope he gets speech therapy if he needs it, but I also don't think any of us can say definitively that he does or doesn't. I hope if he's not getting services it's because the doctor thinks he's alright, not that Jessa and Ben are reluctant to give him the services he might need. 

[BernRul]

3 minutes ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Alright here's my two cents as an autistic adult who did NOT receive any services as a child. ABA is widely considered by autistic adults to be harmful because it focuses on hiding autistic traits. However, my understanding is that ABA is NOT speech therapy and the two would be vastly different. I'm not trying to invalidate the experiences of anyone here but if Henry was receiving speech therapy that would be very different from receiving ABA services. 

I hope he gets speech therapy if he needs it, but I also don't think any of us can say definitively that he does or doesn't. I hope if he's not getting services it's because the doctor thinks he's alright, not that Jessa and Ben are reluctant to give him the services he might need. 

Yeah, I'm not commenting on Henry's speech therapy--I'm all for that, if he actually needs it, and isn't like those kids who catch up as late bloomers.

But another poster specifically mentioned her negative experiences being made to be "neurotypical" so I wanted to chime in to back her up about an example I know. Just because some people seemed dismissive of her, assuming she went to a fundie Christian therapy instead of a mainstream one.

I'm a recently diagnosed autistic adult myself, who also didn't get services as a child. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by BernRul

[SassyPants]

55 minutes ago, OyHiOh said:

My son has PTSD attached to not being able to communicate.  The anxiety he still experiences when he can't get a word or concept across clearly, approaching the end of grade school, is intense and well outside the "normal" frustration tolerance for his age.  

I talked about his struggles a few pages back - that at about Henry's age, my son could speak 6 words clearly.  Every other syllable out of his mouth at that point was "gah."  He self harmed all the time - banging his head on the floor or any hard surface within reach, hard enough to cause injury.  For my son, play-based speech therapy was life saving.  We didn't get enough, early enough, to mitigate the long term impact of not being able to talk on his mental health but it's better than could have been.  A smart, bright child who can't communicate experiences real, lasting mental health consequences when they don't have the ability to communicate needs and ideas.  My son refers to the four long years when he couldn't talk as "when I was sick."  Lack of speech very much was the illness and therapy was the necessary cure.  He would not have gotten better without it.

Therapy should never be abusive.  Children with apraxia absolutely do need to repeat sounds hundreds or even thousands of times to fix the motor pathway from brain to mouth.  But toddlers and preschoolers should do the vast majority of that repetition through play.  Through dance and movement games and toys that develop sensory cues to go along with the therapy goals.

Oh my gosh. My HR and BP just soar hearing of your son’s difficulties. How horrible would it be to be worried about being unable to vocalize your own thoughts? As a parent I can not imagine watching such and being willing to hear a professional advise to “wait and see.”

Edited November 28, 2019 by SassyPants

[nausicaa]

Just now, BernRul said:

But another poster specifically mentioned her negative experiences being made to be "neurotypical" so I wanted to chime in to back her up about an example I know. Just because some people seemed dismissive of her, assuming she went to a fundie Christian therapy instead of a mainstream one.

But that poster didn't just detail her own negative experience. She conflated her specific experience with early intervention speech therapy in general, made some pretty heavy handed generalizations, then suggested speech therapy was about "perfectionism." (And somehow this relates to "surviving capitalism"?)

I didn't see anyone dismissing her experience here. However, she has seemed quick to dismiss the experience of others several times, here and in other threads. 

[BernRul]

7 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

But that poster didn't just detail her own negative experience. She conflated her specific experience with early intervention speech therapy in general, made some pretty heavy handed generalizations, then suggested speech therapy was about "perfectionism." (And somehow this relates to "surviving capitalism"?)

I didn't see anyone dismissing her experience here. However, she has seemed quick to dismiss the experience of others several times, here and in other threads. 

She said she doesn't like the idea of neordiverse kids being forced to live in a neurotypical world, and how she was abused in her therapy. 

She then walked her statement back, because she didn't watch the episode and didn't know Henry's delays seem to be solely speech (sometimes speech can be symptomatic of other conditions, so I see the confusion).

I can't really judge a person for getting triggered when they think they see something that relates to their past abuse. If that causes someone to seemingly overreact, that's a rough situtaion but I understand where they're coming from. I've been reading a lot of autistic adults' accounts of their therapy, and some of it really fucked them up emotionally. I don't know what this poster has experienced, if it's the same or completely different. I just can get why that kind of abuse can cause a person to project and get defensive. 

I do agree with her when she said early intervention shouldn't be about making neurodiverse kids "normal." I don't know if that's what you meant by her criticizing all of it, or not. But I understand why she's defensive about that, because I myself don't think I need to change who I am for others' benefit., even though many people would label me as "defective." I understand why it's a touchy subject. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by BernRul

[Belugaloo]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

 

Problem is, "a scientifically based" autism intervention program, ABA, is entirely based on teaching children to hide their autistic traits.  And some autistic adults have come out and said that's abuse.

 

The neurodiversity movement is a great thing and I really support autistic adults speaking out against harmful practices. Getting rid of personality traits in the name of therapy is absolutely wrong- their voices need to be heard. I know of one ABA company who has many practices that seem akin to "making an autistic person not autistic". They are not well regarded in the community I work in. Practices include things like lowering non-harmful stereotypic behaviors because of "stigma" and more than a 3 second delay in response being considered non compliance. On the flip side, every other ABA company I know of in this area doesn't support these practices, and multiple BCBA's (masters degree ABA therapists) have spoken out against them. I am so glad that the tide is turning and the harm and abuse done to some autistic adults in the name of "therapy" is being pushed back against. The ABA I know focuses mostly on increasing communication (either verbal or non verbal) and self regulation skills so that kids can communicate their needs or cope with situations that cause stress. And then there's the traditional element of ABA thats in place such as working on fine motor deficits, handwriting, etc. 

 

Disclaimer: I am an ABA therapist. I started out as a big critic of ABA as a college student, which is funny considering where ive ended up. I love my clients to pieces, and I dont want to make them "not autistic". I do want to help them communicate in healthy ways. I want my 5 year old client to say she needs a break or she wants "X" rather than screaming, falling to the floor, and banging her head. I want one of my 4 year old clients to ask for toys rather than grabbing them from her classmates hands and screaming "you CANT touch that!" (id also love if shed tolerate others touching her toys, but thats rather age appropriate  ) 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Belugaloo

[nausicaa]

Just now, BernRul said:

She said she doesn't like the idea of neordiverse kids being forced to live in a neurotypical world, and how she was abused in her therapy. 

People were discussing Henry's speech delay; no one mentioned autism or neurodiverse children. 

Her opening salvo also didn't address her specific situation or forcing neurodiverse children into anything. Exact quote: "Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary."

I'm not sure why her experience and sensitivities trump those of the people she insulted, but whatever works for you, I guess. 

[raspberrymint]

It was ABA and speech therapy was part of that for my cousins.  I myself did not have delayed speech.  ABA and speech therapy are often packaged together.

I don't know where I dismiss the experiences of others, let alone in several threads.  I just have my own opinions.  I can come to different conclusions from the opinions of others without thinking of others' opinions as unworthy.  If this is about what I said in the Girl Defined thread, I'm of the opinion that no one should be a parent unless that's what they actually want, that this decision should not be taken lightly, that it shouldn't be something that just happens, that this choice requires personal self-evaluation and honesty.  I can't think of anything else I said on FJ that caused any upset.  That topic and this one have the same roots.  No one has a perfect family.  No one should set out to make sure their family is perfect.  That's the core cause of fundamentalist religious families.

I'll say it a third time:  I am not condoning inaccessibility to services.  What I do not like is a culture of fear and pressure.  Kids pick up on that.  They know when they're viewed as disappointing and they take it personally.  Small children have very black and white thinking, translating that to thinking "I'm inferior".

Edited November 28, 2019 by raspberrymint
Second and third paragraphs

[SilverBeach]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:21 PM, raspberrymint said:

What happened to me occurred at a secular research university and what happened to my cousins was government funded through means that didn't exist in my generation.  I greatly dislike pressure to make kids "normal", period.  That's my perspective based on my trauma and the trauma of others in my life.  

I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible.  It's panic over delay that makes me uncomfortable.

"Normal" speech isn't just conformity, it's the ability to most effectively communicate with others and navigate the world without impediment. I agree that panic is sometimes not necessary,  particularly with respect to expressive language, as some children just develop outside of statistical norms. However, early intervention does not hurt those children and it is better to be safe than sorry. Speech and language therapy can be very effective at early ages when the brain is still plastic. There is no point to having children suffer with speech problems if it's not necessary.  That said, I don't think your bad experience, whatever that entailed, is typical and I'm sorry that it happened to you. My child's experience with early intervention was great. 

I have no experience with therapy for autism-related speech delays or any other aspect of autism, so I'm not commenting on that at all. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by SilverBeach

[raspberrymint]

Negative experiences go up with comorbidities.  If kids with speech delays and no other issues are pressured even if indirectly, kids seen as further developmentally delayed are perceptionally vilified so much that they develop C-PTSD.  I'm not a one-off story or even a very extreme one compared to many.  I'm aware the majority of kids who go through speech therapy are helped, not traumatized.  It's the pressure and assumptions of doom that hurt, when applicable.

[OyHiOh]

54 minutes ago, raspberrymint said:

 

I'll say it a third time:  I am not condoning inaccessibility to services.  What I do not like is a culture of fear and pressure.  Kids pick up on that.  They know when they're viewed as disappoints.  Small children have very black and white thinking, translating that to thinking "I'm inferior".

Again, having a child who could communicate a little bit but not nearly to the level of his comprehension and receptive language, the flip side of your "I'm inferior" experience is "I'm faulty because I can't make them understand me.  Why isn't this working?!i"

For us, it was never about making a non verbal child conform to expectations, it was about relieving his stress and anxiety about not being able to communicate.  He has a distinct speech pattern - common in kids with "resolved" apraxia - where his grammar isn't quite perfect, his prosody is just a little bit different, and his articulation sounds faintly accented.  None of those are problems at this point.  He is understandable, most of the time, and he knows how to rephrase questions/comments if he's having trouble communicating a specific word.  And beyond that, he has the speech skills to practice words and sounds on his own when he finds one that's hard to pronounce.  He's a success story and yet, I can't help but think about how much less mental health trauma he would have if he'd started speech a year or eighteen months earlier.

[raspberrymint]

2 minutes ago, OyHiOh said:

Again, having a child who could communicate a little bit but not nearly to the level of his comprehension and receptive language, the flip side of your "I'm inferior" experience is "I'm faulty because I can't make them understand me.  Why isn't this working?!i"

For us, it was never about making a non verbal child conform to expectations, it was about relieving his stress and anxiety about not being able to communicate.  He has a distinct speech pattern - common in kids with "resolved" apraxia - where his grammar isn't quite perfect, his prosody is just a little bit different, and his articulation sounds faintly accented.  None of those are problems at this point.  He is understandable, most of the time, and he knows how to rephrase questions/comments if he's having trouble communicating a specific word.  And beyond that, he has the speech skills to practice words and sounds on his own when he finds one that's hard to pronounce.  He's a success story and yet, I can't help but think about how much less mental health trauma he would have if he'd started speech a year or eighteen months earlier.

I understand that.

[mango_fandango]

I have ASD too (would have been given an Aspergers diagnosis before the publication of DSM 5), and received no intervention as a kid. Actually, I sort of had an IEP (individual education plan) at primary, but that was mainly based around behaviours I had that were mostly due to my ADHD (inattentive type, although I was more hyperactive when I was younger). It mainly contained stuff like not shouting out in class, that kind of thing. 
Interestingly, the main difference between ‘classic’ autism and Aspergers was that, with Aspergers, there was no language delay or cognitive impairment. My speech development was normal. I had slightly odd phrasing/“formal” language for a kid my age (as a primary aged kid, so between 5-11) but that’s pretty standard for Asperger’s. My ASD wasn’t really noticeable until I moved to secondary at 11 and went through adolescence, when having friends and fitting in becomes important. 

[just_ordinary]

On 11/27/2019 at 2:45 AM, Georgiana said:

In addition to what others have said, we don't know if therapy or intervention was even recommended for Henry or would be before he hit school age.  There's debate in the speech-language community regarding the benefits of super early intervention without additional diagnoses when it comes to certain speech production delays.  When additional diagnoses exist, of course, we can pinpoint the need for intervention and devise an intervention plan that will be helpful to the child.  When there is a language delay that exists on the whole, that too can be addressed.

The problem exists when there aren't additional diagnoses, other areas of language development/acquisition are at or above normal, and only one area (usually speech production) lags behind...because not all language development looks the same, even when it's otherwise normal.  That's why, as @Bobology said, some kids just suddenly "catch up".  There was nothing wrong with them at all.  They were just developing differently. 

Sure, often language development will share certain hallmarks and milestones across individuals, but it's a highly complex process and sometimes it develops uniquely...but will develop without issue if allowed to continue developing at it's own pace.   In cases of children like Henry, where they are clearly able to process language at or above normal levels but are not speaking, it can be difficult to tell if he is experiencing issues speaking that will resolve normally, is experiencing issues speaking that will not resolve without intervention, or is choosing not to speak.  Or, in many cases, a combination of all of the above (it's harder for him to produce speech so he chooses not to but some of his production issues would resolve with regular practice, but because he's not regularly trying to speak  it's harder for him to produce speech).  The initial recommendation for some young speech production delays is simply to teach the parents how to create a linguistically stimulating environment that encourages/forces the child to speak, which then allows us to isolate which issues truly need intervention.

Then there's the real rub, which is that being overly aggressive in intervention when a child is on the whole progressing has actually been shown to be harmful in cases where nothing is wrong and development is just different.  The absolute worst thing to happen to a child who is actually progressing but is progressing distinctly from their peers is to become self-conscious about their speech.  Nervousness, self-consciousness, or shame will interfere with normal linguistic development in children almost absolutely, and problems that otherwise would have resolved on their own may become compounded or permanent.  Speech production is a very complicated process that we're so used to that we take for granted and so practiced at that it seems easy, but it's like a system of complex interlocking gears that can easily halt or be thrown off with the smallest grain of additional strain being introduced or applied (think how much harder it is to talk fluidly when you're under pressure, such as public speaking).  With children, we must introduce that strain deliberately and only when necessary, otherwise we risk permanently warping their system.

Then there's the consideration that the difference between intervention before school age and intervention at school age for certain speech production delays without additional diagnoses or language delays was not shown to be major (or rather, there are few marked ill effects of waiting until the child is older to intervene as intervention is still just as effective), but the risk of harming the child through unnecessary early intervention is considerably lessened.  So it's not uncommon for professionals to initially recommend a very passive plan that becomes significantly more aggressive as the child ages.  

What I am saying is that even if Henry has a formal diagnosis, which as @Bobology has pointed out may need to wait until he turns 3, therapy/intervention may not be immediately recommended.  Depending on his particular diagnosis, and especially if he continues progressing in other areas but does not receive a diagnosis, it may be recommended to delay any intervention until he is school age and intervention is considered "safer".  

Unless we know what doctors are recommending for Henry, we can't really judge Jessa/Ben for not immediately putting him in speech therapy.  She could be doing exactly what Henry's doctors are telling her to do, and they may have advised against direct intervention at this point.

Thank you. I had a long answer typed out that would have read a lot like hand slapping to some comments that were made. So I deleted it. Instead, I wish I could upvote your comment a thousand times and repost it at least once per page.

[BernRul]

11 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I have no experience with therapy for autism-related speech delays or any other aspect of autism, so I'm not commenting on that at all. 

 

11 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

That said, I don't think your bad experience, whatever that entailed, is typical and I'm sorry that it happened to you. My child's experience with early intervention was great. 

As a teacher, I'm all for early intervention. Most of the therapies--and I had speech therapy myself for a non-autistic issue--are good. Some are great. But the standard therpay for autism, ABA, which @raspberrymintsays she recieved, is not. Many, many autistic adult say it is abuse and some even have PTSD from it.

I'm going to quote an article I posted earlier: https://theaspergian.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/

Quote

Whenever ABA comes up, so does Lovaas.  Autists point out that he used these same techniques to pioneer gay conversion therapy, which, like ABA, has also been proven to be deeply harmful to the human psyche.  They also point out that while fewer ABA therapists use things like electric shock, it is still used and considered important by several institutions.

“But ABA has changed,” people argue.  “My ABA therapist never uses punishment.  It’s all positive and reward-based.”

That is very true for many people.  Most ABA therapists don’t set out to hurt children.  And yet, despite making ABA therapy fun and positive, the underlying goals of ABA have not changed.

And it is these goals that, like gay conversion therapy, do long-term damage to the human psyche.

 

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ABA is not designed to consider the child’s feelings or emotional needs. 

I’m not making a jump when I say that.  You can go to any ABA website and read what they say and you’ll see that there will be no discussion of the child’s emotional welfare or happiness, only behaviours.

To ABA, behaviour is the only thing that matters. ABA considers autistic children as unbalanced kids who need to be balanced out, and if you balance their behaviour, they are fixed.

 

Quote

Grabbing my hands when I stim the way ABA recommends would NOT help my day go better. 

It would be an excellent way to piss me off and make me feel frustrated and anxious, though.

It’s one thing to stop a child from hurting themselves by banging their head.  It’s another to stop a harmless stim like hand flapping.  You’re causing the child emotional discomfort just because the behaviour strikes you as weird.

Go back and watch some of those videos again, noting how often the autistic children are interrupted from hand-waving, making noise, crying, or otherwise trying to express and relieve their emotions.

 

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The way the children’s bodies are touched and manipulated so frequently, in corrective redirection, is upsetting the children.  Their faces reflect confusion and sometimes distress.

But learning to tolerate discomfort is what ABA is all about. 

 

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The mother comments that if they relented at this point and took the child out of the store, her daughter would be rewarded for behaving this way.

That is probably true.  If you are in pain, and you scream “Ouch!”  and someone comes running and relieves your pain, you’ll probably yell “Ouch” again the next time something hurts you.

Is that…  bad?

The parents say the ABA really helped their daughter.

Did it really help the child, though?  Or the parents?

 

Quote

They don’t see how wrong it is to teach a child that their way of feeling comfortable and soothed is wrong and that ignoring your feelings and physical needs is good and gets you approval from your teachers and parents.

They don’t see that it is abusive to ignore a child’s attempts to communicate because they aren’t “complying” with a demand that makes them uncomfortable.

They don’t see how dangerous it is to teach a child to do whatever they are ordered to do, no questions asked, and to never object or say “no.”

They don’t think about the fact that 70% of people with ASD have experienced sexual abuse by the time they are college age.

The crux of autistic's problems with ABA is that it tries to force them to change their behavior, without understanding the behavior. And shallow changes only work short term, but don't change who people really are. The man who started ABA, Ivar Lovaas, also pioneered gay conversion therapy.  They are the same idea: people need to change their inborn characteristics to fit the norm. 

Again, I'm all for therapy that teaches autistic kids how to communicate, express themselves, regulate their emotions, and feel emotional support. There are some fantastic therapies out there.

But there is a mainstream one that people who recieve it call abuse. I never had it, but I am distrubed that 70% of autstics are sexually abused by college age. I don't think it's a coincidence that the main autism therapy does not let kids say "no." Or the study I posted shows a correlation between masking autistic traits with high suicidal thoughts and attempts in adults: 69% of men and 71% of women. Women are better at masking, btw, so that might also explain why it's higher for them. I also know that I'm exhausted 90% of my life. Not tired: exhausted. The 10% I'm not is when I'm allowed to be myself, and not hide my autistic traits. 

So @nausicaa I'm not saying one thing trumps another. Just that we can be a little more understanding when an abuse victim gets triggered and has a bad reaction. A little "I'm sorry that happened to you, you have a point, but it doesn't seem to apply to Henry's case." Also I don't think @raspberrymint said anything that bad, but as you said, whatever works for you, I guess. 

[SweetJuly]

Nothing to add to this fantastic discussion, just wanted to thank everyone contributing for educating me on speech therapy and therapy for people with autism. As so often when reading here I feel like I have gained a few brain cells and a better understanding of the world. Thank you all. 

Also my deepest sympathies to everyone who has been traumatised by misguided therapy attempts. I am so sorry this happened to you. You are all incredibly strong individuals and I wish you only happiness from now on. 

[feministxtian]

just to throw my 2 cents in (and it's worth even less)...#2 son did not speak anything resembling English until he was about 4. Whatever he was speaking had inflection, and he'd use body language to convey questions. We just said he was speaking his mother tongue (i'm still convinced he's an alien). Turns out he has an ASD and is just a half bubble off plumb. As he's gotten older (he's 29 now) he's gotten better with social cues and reading other people's body language. He got some SLP services in pre-school and kindergarten and it was a struggle for me to get those for him. He's very smart, understood everything, could pick out words in books, but could not be understood to save his life. As he got further along in school it essentially resolved itself. 

My granddaughter got SLP services in a Head Start type program. She LOVED it because it was a full educational experience. It was probably the best for her...she got an early taste of school and has rocketed since then. Honor student, VERY intelligent, sarcastic and funny as hell. She's 5 foot nothing and not even 100 lbs but can hold her own with her older (and MUCH larger) twin brothers. On the other side, she's fallen UP stairs, lost fights with her jacket trying to put it on, poked herself in the eye (somehow around her glasses) putting a hat on. 

Kids with differences are not required to conform to "normal". Normal is just a setting on a dryer. I got the shit beat out of me for my differences (thank you mother) and since I didn't/couldn't understand what I was doing wrong, I just kept getting the shit beat out of me. My kids and grandkids are quirky as hell. ASD, ADHD, speech delays are normal in our family...along with high IQs, geeky/nerdy qualities, interesting and offbeat hobbies and interests. 

Let them be who they are...don't feel like they have to be "fixed". I'm weird as fuck but I'm a lot of fun once you realize I ain't quite right...so are my kids and grandkids...