Seewalds 42: Trying to Stay Relevant

[muggleborn]

13 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I can see them making at least an extra room for Ivy and any other girl's they have. Jessa has stated she doesn't care about having a massive house but they will need some more space when the children get older. 

She said on instagram they will add an addition to the house when she feels they needs it. I don’t think they will be moving anytime soon.

 

edit: words

Edited November 23, 2019 by muggleborn

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, muggleborn said:

She said on instagram they will add an addition to the house when she feels they needs it. I don’t think they will be moving anytime soon.

 

edit: words

A bigger house means more work and time expended. I can’t see any of them having larger homes until some of the kids are old enough to pitch in and help with the work, and I think that will only happen if the families grow much larger. Kendra and Joe have the potential to have that larger family ( back to back, easy births with appropriate care along the way). If Jessa starts getting Real care and center based delivers, she might have a larger family too. Abbie and JD are an unknown. I don’t see Joy, Jill, Jinger or even Lauren going for mega numbers. Easy, complication free deliveries will increase numbers. 

[CorruptionInc.]

Seewalds popped up on People as "celebrities who are preparing for Christmas".
Not sure if Jessa's post was a sponsored thing (by Amazon) or reckless spending...
 

[coexist]

Someone in the comments said something like, "What happened to 'buy used, save the difference'?" and Jessa replied the Amazon packages were full of items that will be put into care packages for that Christmas charity they're affiliated with. I don't know if it was a sponsored post but I guess it wasn't necessarily reckless spending.??

[SassyPants]

So I just watched last week’s episode. I was looking for the special on Kendra’s delivery. Henry was screened for a speech deficit, scored in the 6% for his age, and the decision was made to wait for treatment? WHAT, and if 6% is moderate, what is severe? Only having 0-1 words at 2-1/4 years of age ? GET THE KID TREATMENT NOW, YOU FOOLS!

[HereComesTreble]

14 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So I just watched last week’s episode. I was looking for the special on Kendra’s delivery. Henry was screened for a speech deficit, scored in the 6% for his age, and the decision was made to wait for treatment? WHAT, and if 6% is moderate, what is severe? Only having 0-1 words at 2-1/4 years of age ? GET THE KID TREATMENT NOW, YOU FOOLS!

A lot of insurances and school districts make it impossible to get early speech intervention.

I know it sounds disturbing—even if a child clearly has speech issues; if they test in the moderate range, they might not be eligible for speech therapy.

My kids have had speech delays.  The amount of hoops I’ve had to jump through to get my kids services is insane.  

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

A lot of insurances and school districts make it impossible to get early speech intervention.

I know it sounds disturbing—even if a child clearly has speech issues; if they test in the moderate range, they might not be eligible for speech therapy.

My kids have had speech delays.  The amount of hoops I’ve had to jump through to get my kids services is insane.  

Horrible. And how can having only 2 words and testing in the 6% at the age of 2-1/4 years be considered a moderate delay? I don’t have any personal experience with delayed speech, but poor Henry really seemed to be struggling. Without therapy how will he catch up, won’t he just fall more behind? 

[Daisy0322]

My son is about the same age as Henry and we've been doing speech therapy for 6 months.  His issue is motor planning and they said he will probably catch up in his own time (2-4 years) but they still have services coming to the house once or twice a month to keep track and when he turns three he will be automatically enrolled in a preschool program with a speech therapist and an IEP. I wonder how much of it is just jessa putting off intervention and how much it's the doctor. 

[raspberrymint]

Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary.  Given the choice, I would've preferred zero therapy in my early childhood because what I got was sanctioned abuse.  My younger cousins internalized this worse than I did and see themselves as defective even now, as teenagers.  There's too much emphasis on perfectionism in this world pressuring families of non neurotypical children.  I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible, either.

[Aauel]

Just throwing this out there... Jessa might be worried about the expense of a private speech therapist. I have a sister that homeschooled all of her kids. She's currently freaking out on her daughter who is trying to get therapy for the grandson, but in our city the child has to be enrolled in the district for the free therapy. Keep in mind this child is not old enough for school this is only a formality of stupid paperwork (I had to go through it with my youngest). My sister thinks this is a gateway "drug" to pressure parents into sending their kids to public school.

[Bobology]

45 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Horrible. And how can having only 2 words and testing in the 6% at the age of 2-1/4 years be considered a moderate delay? I don’t have any personal experience with delayed speech, but poor Henry really seemed to be struggling. Without therapy how will he catch up, won’t he just fall more behind? 

I have a hunch that only Henry's vocabulary -- expressive language -- came out at the 6th percentile after the evaluation. Other areas are also evaluated, including receptive language and problem-solving and maybe more. If Henry was fine in the other areas, and he likely is fine in those areas, then the average of all areas assessed may be 'moderate' even though his vocabulary is at the 6th%ile. The federal program for birth through 3rd birthday rules apply to an overall evaluation. So kids like Henry, my grandson, and others, don't get services until the public school districts take over that stuff at age 3. The birth - 3 program, which I believe is run with federal and state money but I'm not positive, is basically for babies and toddlers who are evaluated as having developmental or intellectual disabilities.

It stinks, but that is the way it is. A lot of speech-delayed kids who do not have developmental disabilities may  begin talking around 3rd birthday. There are some, of course, who do not and who have severe speech difficulties like the motor-planning (Childhood Apraxia of Speech, maybe?) that @Daisy0322 mentioned above. And CAS is like many things in that there is a wide range from very mild to severe on the continuum. And it cannot be officially diagnosed until age 3 or later.

[WarriorJane]

19 minutes ago, raspberrymint said:

Sorry for my blasphemy, but I don't see the point in rushing kids to talk.  What's the point, surviving capitalism?  Even then, perfect speech isn't necessary.  Given the choice, I would've preferred zero therapy in my early childhood because what I got was sanctioned abuse.  My younger cousins internalized this worse than I did and see themselves as defective even now, as teenagers.  There's too much emphasis on perfectionism in this world pressuring families of non neurotypical children.  I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible, either.

I don't think anyone's suggesting they subject him to any sort of abusive fundy bible based "therapy" , and I'm sorry you had to go through that, but rather getting him real help from a qualified professional.   Early intervention is key,  and why wouldn't you want to help him?  Helping kids with any kind of special need isn't about making them perfect,  it's about helping them reach their full potential.   I think people just want to see Ben and Jessa make good choices for Henry,  and not choose to "pray the delay away" because of their screwy beliefs.   

 

[raspberrymint]

What happened to me occurred at a secular research university and what happened to my cousins was government funded through means that didn't exist in my generation.  I greatly dislike pressure to make kids "normal", period.  That's my perspective based on my trauma and the trauma of others in my life.  

I'm not saying resources should be inaccessible.  It's panic over delay that makes me uncomfortable.

Edited November 27, 2019 by raspberrymint
Last two sentences

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Horrible. And how can having only 2 words and testing in the 6% at the age of 2-1/4 years be considered a moderate delay? I don’t have any personal experience with delayed speech, but poor Henry really seemed to be struggling. Without therapy how will he catch up, won’t he just fall more behind? 

I was interested in the episode as a family member is almost exactly the same age as Henry, and seems to have a very similar speech issue - and if anything  is even less verbal than Henry.   His receptive language is fine, his hearing is  fine, he can follow directions, he’s happy and makes noises and laughs - but he just doesn’t talk . Last I heard the Dr didn’t recommend structured intervention services until he turns 3, if there is still a significant delay. 
 

ETA - thank you bobology for the very clear explanation. 
 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mama Mia

[HereComesTreble]

46 minutes ago, Aauel said:

Just throwing this out there... Jessa might be worried about the expense of a private speech therapist. I have a sister that homeschooled all of her kids. She's currently freaking out on her daughter who is trying to get therapy for the grandson, but in our city the child has to be enrolled in the district for the free therapy. Keep in mind this child is not old enough for school this is only a formality of stupid paperwork (I had to go through it with my youngest). My sister thinks this is a gateway "drug" to pressure parents into sending their kids to public school.

Is she in the USA?  I’m 99% all children with special needs over the age of 3 can receive services from their local school district.  Even homeschoolers.  It does sound like she wouldn’t be into, though.

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Horrible. And how can having only 2 words and testing in the 6% at the age of 2-1/4 years be considered a moderate delay? I don’t have any personal experience with delayed speech, but poor Henry really seemed to be struggling. Without therapy how will he catch up, won’t he just fall more behind? 

Yes, exactly.  I always hear that early intervention is the key to preventing further delays; but dang, it can be so hard to qualify for it.

[SassyPants]

Well...this involves his ability to communicate and you could tell from the episode that both the child and the parents are frustrated. Why wouldn’t you want to ease that burden? This isn’t a birthmark or a cauliflower shaped ear. This is about giving a child the ability to express himself. 

[raspberrymint]

Fair.  I don't watch the show.

[FreeCalifornia]

44 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

Is she in the USA?  I’m 99% all children with special needs over the age of 3 can receive services from their local school district.  Even homeschoolers.  It does sound like she wouldn’t be into, though.

Yes, exactly.  I always hear that early intervention is the key to preventing further delays; but dang, it can be so hard to qualify for it.

I’m not sure where you are getting the 99% statistic.

having homeschooled in 3 states my observation doesn’t fit that unless all 3 places I’ve lived in are the 1%.

 I don’t need to argue it- & your  experience  is yours- just want to put that out there for people who may be frustrated looking for help.

There are many situations I’ve seen where a homeschooler must either enter public school for services or make it into a disability lottery. 

[HereComesTreble]

14 minutes ago, FreeCalifornia said:

I’m not sure where you are getting the 99% statistic.

having homeschooled in 3 states my observation doesn’t fit that unless all 3 places I’ve lived in are the 1%.

 I don’t need to argue it- & your  experience  is yours- just want to put that out there for people who may be frustrated looking for help.

There are many situations I’ve seen where a homeschooler must either enter public school for services or make it into a disability lottery. 

Oh shat!  I left out 2 important words! 

I meant to write “I’m 99% sure that all children with special needs...” 

Meaning: I’m pretty sure all children (even homeschoolers) with special needs can receive services through their school district.

I didn’t mean 99% actually receive services.  It’s really hard to qualify.

Talk about a brainfart! Sorry about that!

 

Just now, HereComesTreble said:

Oh shat!  I left out 2 important words! 

I meant to write “I’m 99% sure that all children with special needs...” 

Meaning: I’m pretty sure all children (even homeschoolers) with special needs can receive services through their school district.

I didn’t mean 99% actually receive services.  It’s really hard to qualify.

Talk about a brainfart! Sorry about that!

 

And—this may just be a California  thing.

[Georgiana]

In addition to what others have said, we don't know if therapy or intervention was even recommended for Henry or would be before he hit school age.  There's debate in the speech-language community regarding the benefits of super early intervention without additional diagnoses when it comes to certain speech production delays.  When additional diagnoses exist, of course, we can pinpoint the need for intervention and devise an intervention plan that will be helpful to the child.  When there is a language delay that exists on the whole, that too can be addressed.

The problem exists when there aren't additional diagnoses, other areas of language development/acquisition are at or above normal, and only one area (usually speech production) lags behind...because not all language development looks the same, even when it's otherwise normal.  That's why, as @Bobology said, some kids just suddenly "catch up".  There was nothing wrong with them at all.  They were just developing differently. 

Sure, often language development will share certain hallmarks and milestones across individuals, but it's a highly complex process and sometimes it develops uniquely...but will develop without issue if allowed to continue developing at it's own pace.   In cases of children like Henry, where they are clearly able to process language at or above normal levels but are not speaking, it can be difficult to tell if he is experiencing issues speaking that will resolve normally, is experiencing issues speaking that will not resolve without intervention, or is choosing not to speak.  Or, in many cases, a combination of all of the above (it's harder for him to produce speech so he chooses not to but some of his production issues would resolve with regular practice, but because he's not regularly trying to speak  it's harder for him to produce speech).  The initial recommendation for some young speech production delays is simply to teach the parents how to create a linguistically stimulating environment that encourages/forces the child to speak, which then allows us to isolate which issues truly need intervention.

Then there's the real rub, which is that being overly aggressive in intervention when a child is on the whole progressing has actually been shown to be harmful in cases where nothing is wrong and development is just different.  The absolute worst thing to happen to a child who is actually progressing but is progressing distinctly from their peers is to become self-conscious about their speech.  Nervousness, self-consciousness, or shame will interfere with normal linguistic development in children almost absolutely, and problems that otherwise would have resolved on their own may become compounded or permanent.  Speech production is a very complicated process that we're so used to that we take for granted and so practiced at that it seems easy, but it's like a system of complex interlocking gears that can easily halt or be thrown off with the smallest grain of additional strain being introduced or applied (think how much harder it is to talk fluidly when you're under pressure, such as public speaking).  With children, we must introduce that strain deliberately and only when necessary, otherwise we risk permanently warping their system.

Then there's the consideration that the difference between intervention before school age and intervention at school age for certain speech production delays without additional diagnoses or language delays was not shown to be major (or rather, there are few marked ill effects of waiting until the child is older to intervene as intervention is still just as effective), but the risk of harming the child through unnecessary early intervention is considerably lessened.  So it's not uncommon for professionals to initially recommend a very passive plan that becomes significantly more aggressive as the child ages.  

What I am saying is that even if Henry has a formal diagnosis, which as @Bobology has pointed out may need to wait until he turns 3, therapy/intervention may not be immediately recommended.  Depending on his particular diagnosis, and especially if he continues progressing in other areas but does not receive a diagnosis, it may be recommended to delay any intervention until he is school age and intervention is considered "safer".  

Unless we know what doctors are recommending for Henry, we can't really judge Jessa/Ben for not immediately putting him in speech therapy.  She could be doing exactly what Henry's doctors are telling her to do, and they may have advised against direct intervention at this point.

[FreeCalifornia]

My oldest fits in with what Georgiana said. He actually DID qualify for services at 18 months. We kept in home government funded services from 1-3, and moved to a preschool setting from 3-5. We stopped at age 5 because he would have had to enrolled in public kindergarten and we wanted to homeschool.

anyway- he made huge gains around age 4. I don’t believe any of it had to do with his therapies. Neither did his speech occupational therapists! We all believe he just needed more time.

there are so many varying causes and situations it can be hard to clump them into one category 

 

[Nikedagain?]

Ugh, I have a non verbal autistic daughter and 9 years with the same SLP. I feel like a pro at this. I think the time has come to part ways or get a new therapist (she has an AAC device)  She has gotten speech services through the public school system (YES I am a hard core public school advocate!) since she was 3, but school based services are lacking once the kiddo gets to middle school, imo. 

My older son was very speech delayed. He had a very, very verbal sister 2 years older. I'm convinced that she did most of his talking for him during his first 4 years!

This same speech delayed kid is a newly minted SLP himself, so it totally worked out.

[lizzybee]

My son is speech delayed and it is my understanding that country-wide in the US early intervention services, if evaluated and deemed needful, are free until age three and then the child can go to the school system to continue services. Many insurance companies will also pay for private speech therapy if one opts to do that. 

I have no idea what Henry scored, but to my slightly "educated" via experience with my son, the thing that caught my eye was that Henry seemed to know a lot of words and was able to pick out pictures of what things were in books - that looked promising to me because that was a flag my son struggles on. Mine didn't know the words and wasn't able to communicate them. Henry was picking colors and pictures. That might have been why she was told to hold off on therapy. If it were me, and knowing what I know, I would have pushed to go ahead and do therapy because they'll come to her house and work with him at her convenience at no expense to her, but he'll age out of that program at three and then it goes to the school system. 

My fingers were itching when she talked about it to message her and tell her that it wasn't anything she's done as a parent. (I didn't because I'm sure she gets so many messages, I'd doubt she'd read it) A lot of children, particularly boys, have language delays. Like her I have one who is delayed and one who isn't, but it's nothing to blame yourself or beat yourself up over, though I've admittedly done both. It's just one of those things that happens actually rather a lot. Some kids just take their time learning language and others need a little extra help and that's all okay. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by lizzybee

[grandmadugger]

The stubborn grandson didn’t talk. Much like Henry he had a few but nothing like his peers. I was worried and encouraged his parents to have him evaluated. His parents said he passed but I was still worried. About a month later he started talking in complete sentences. That child is going to be a pain in the ass his entire life. 

[Aauel]

3 hours ago, HereComesTreble said:

Is she in the USA?  I’m 99% all children with special needs over the age of 3 can receive services from their local school district.  Even homeschoolers.  It does sound like she wouldn’t be into, though.

He absolutely qualifies,  it's my sister (the kid's grandma) that is anti public school (like the duggars). She's mad at her daughter for thinking about enrolling him into the district to take advantage of the free speech therapy. 

This is a district that is super nice.  It let a different nephew that attended a private school take just a band class at the public school because the private (Christian) didn't offer marching band.