Seewalds 41: Christian Hero Ivy Jane

[SassyPants]

And for a Duggar to call 911, the bleeding must be pretty substantial. I wonder how far away they live from the nearest hospital with emergency and OBGYN services? Quite frankly, this is bordering on abuse of emergency room services. You know that you have a history of requiring institutional medical care after delivery, get yourself into care as soon as the pee stick is dry.

4 minutes ago, metheglyn said:

I haven't yet had a chance to see the episode since I'm currently at work, but the Lily and Ellie blog recap quotes Jessa as saying: ' "Our birth plan through this whole pregnancy was that we would deliver at a birthing suite at the hospital with a midwife there, however, the morning that my water broke was the morning that my midwife had left town for a week," explains Jessa. "So our backup plan was to call another midwife and do a home birth." '

Maybe they actually planned to use a hospital midwife and *she* was out of town? Or maybe they are in fact fibbing/twisting the truth? Who knows.

But this sounds kind of like what Anna did that time that she meant to deliver at the hospital and her OB/GYN was out of town so she delivered at home herself. I don't understand this logic though. Many women just go to the hospital and have whoever is available at their delivery so that they have immediate care available. Why is a home birth (especially when you have a history of problems) better than getting assistance from someone else at the hospital, when it may well lead to having to be transported later and then seeing whatever doctor is available anyway?

Because they know that they can get by with limited prenatal care and then show up at the ER and get care when shite hits the fan. Jill, Jessa and Joy have all done it. Frankly, as a person who worked in health care for 35 years, this just pisses me off. Why put yourself, your baby and all the other patients in house that day at risk? People using the ER instead of getting health care maintenance or in this case, prenatal care, makes all of our costs go up. 

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

Can someone put Jessa's birth episode on YouTube please? I'm in the UK and can't watch it on the app. 

[Screamapillar]

When 2 out of 3 homebirth attempts end up with hospitalization for excessive bleeding, it might be time to concede that future intervention-free labor and deliveries aren't for you. If I was Jessa, I would just be on edge the entire time wondering if it was going to happen again. At some point, the emergency hospital transfers have to diminish whatever magical experience you think you're getting from giving birth in your living room as opposed to in a hospital or birthing center.

I'd hate to be someone in NW Arkansas who has the misfortune of suffering a heart attack or getting t-boned at an intersection while a Duggar girl is attempting a homebirth. First responders might be a little tied up.

(Not to imply that Jessa's case did not equally require emergency assistance, just that hers was a foreseeable emergency. Also unnecessary, if she had just been in the hospital with Pitocin to begin with, it could have actually helped to prevent her hemorrhaging.)

 

[zygote373]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

At the very least Ben was smart enough to call 911 when it became clear there was an issue. I kind of find myself doubting the whole “we planned a hospital birth bit,” though. Don’t really know why, but I do.

And the Duggars are still using castor oil? Color me shocked that they’d do something that really isn’t a good idea. ?

Somebody must have learned after the backlash about Jill's first delivery with Israel. There were two different disclaimers about how she was taking castor oil only after discussion with a medical professional.

[SillyDillys]

Yeah I don't believe for a second that they had a hospital birth suite plan or whatever. Umm if your doc is out of town you don't change your whole birth place/plan You just get a new doc/midwife or whoever is on call that time

Second, the castor oil made me cringe. As well as the cpms jill and Teresa. I'm sorry I just am very critical of their studies and would not want them to be near me during birth, especially jill making some dumbass decisions during her birth with Israel and most likely Sam

Is it weird I actually miss jill on the show? It was a nice change from the typical people. I'm also glad to see ben and jill immediately go into let's call 911. I just really hope Ben tells Jessa that she she wants to keep birthing for jesus she has to go to the hospital from now on. Who am I kidding? She will probably pull the same bullshit with seewald#4

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

A medical "professional" you mean.  Knowing 1st responders and ER staff, people like this piss them off to no end. Especially repeat offenders, like Jessa. I don't believe for 1 second they planned on a hospital birth, perhaps a birth center birth, but not a hospital. I guaranty you that none of them have medical insurance, and prenatal care and hospitals are EXPENSIVE in the US, and they would need to make arraignments, up front for payment.  Home births are cheaper, Jill and Joy most likely had 5 figure bills for their c/sections and with Samuel needing NICU care for at least a few days could easily push that to 6 figures. That isn't cheap, Jessa gets off easy with an ambulance ride and quick hospital trip. 

[SassyPants]

 

28 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

(Not to imply that Jessa's case did not equally require emergency assistance, just that hers was a foreseeable emergency. Also unnecessary, if she had just been in the hospital with Pitocin to begin with, it could have actually helped to prevent her hemorrhaging.)

 

This is exactly it. This is a foreseeable emergency for Jessa. I would hope that any licensed professional providing home birth services would refuse her as a patient at this point. She is a poor candidate.

[SillyDillys]

@allthegoodnamesrgone ambulance rides are still very expensive. Granted not as pricey as jill's and Joy's bill, but ambulance where I am at is like $2000. I drove my roommate to the er this morning because she has a bad migraine since yesterday and she fainted this morning in the bathroom. She didnt want to take an ambulance and i dont blame her. Even then her copay for the emergency is like $300. Its ridiculous how much medical care costs

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, SillyDillys said:

@allthegoodnamesrgone ambulance rides are still very expensive. Granted not as pricey as jill's and Joy's bill, but ambulance where I am at is like $2000. I drove my roommate to the er this morning because she has a bad migraine since yesterday and she fainted this morning in the bathroom. She didnt want to take an ambulance and i dont blame her. Even then her copay for the emergency is like $300. Its ridiculous how much medical care costs

I’m just going to assume that Jessa was bleeding so heavily that she was unable to walk, and that is why they called an ambulance as opposed to getting her to the hospital by car. My niece, a medical doctor, had her mom drive her to the hospital when she had a placenta abruption at home with her second child. Little one and mom were both fine. Her husband was away on business at the time, and she was lucky her mom was staying with her at the time. Their neighbor watched her older child.

[SillyDillys]

@SassyPants I am in favor of ambulance rides. Especially if for life threatening situations. But in the case of my friend we live two blocks from the hospital, and she really cannot afford the $2000 on top of the co pay. Plus a ct scan, plus they are ordering an MRI. On top of a however long hospital stay

[DillyDally]

So why exactly is Jill "allowed" back on the show? I remember last season, they completely avoided just mentioning her name, let alone show any flashbacks with her in it. I found that really weird, especially when they were talking about difficult births, since Jill's were quite dramatic (at least with Izzy). Nope, not a single mention of her back then. Now she's narrating Jessa's birth special. Huh.

[VelociRapture]

33 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

A medical "professional" you mean.  Knowing 1st responders and ER staff, people like this piss them off to no end. Especially repeat offenders, like Jessa. I don't believe for 1 second they planned on a hospital birth, perhaps a birth center birth, but not a hospital. I guaranty you that none of them have medical insurance, and prenatal care and hospitals are EXPENSIVE in the US, and they would need to make arraignments, up front for payment.  Home births are cheaper, Jill and Joy most likely had 5 figure bills for their c/sections and with Samuel needing NICU care for at least a few days could easily push that to 6 figures. That isn't cheap, Jessa gets off easy with an ambulance ride and quick hospital trip. 

I’ve mentioned this before, but the total bills for our hospital stay after my daughter’s birth were:

My stay: $19,000

Epidural: $3,000

Daughter’s NICU stay: ~$65,000-$70,000

We’re fortunate to have Insurance and we’re also fortunate we had hit our $6,000 deductible prior to this. We ended up paying nothing for the birth, other than paying for some snacks we wanted and gas to drive back and forth to the Hospital the week our daughter was a NICU patient. Ironically enough, had our daughter been born just 27 days later our deductible would have reset at the beginning of the year, we would have had to pay another $6,000, and we wouldn’t have gotten a nice tax credit for having a kid that year. So our daughter being born prior to 38 weeks actually saved us money somehow. ?

Our daughter didn’t have many interventions in NICU though, despite being six weeks premature. It was mostly just waiting for her to show she could eat and gain weight properly, as well as pass the car seat test*. A baby with a longer stay or more interventions could very easily rack up a major bill. We’ve had posters in the past share their experiences and some of them ended up with “million dollar babies,” as a result - meaning, their bills were so high they reached the million dollar range. It’s ridiculous how expensive care can be in this country and how much costs can vary based off where you’re located too. 

*This is a test they have preemies do to be sure they can safely ride in a car seat. You bring the car seat in and they observe your baby sitting in it (with an O2 monitor I believe) for a specific amount of time to be positive they’re breathing and functioning fine. 

36 minutes ago, SillyDillys said:

Yeah I don't believe for a second that they had a hospital birth suite plan or whatever. Umm if your doc is out of town you don't change your whole birth place/plan You just get a new doc/midwife or whoever is on call that time

Second, the castor oil made me cringe. As well as the cpms jill and Teresa. I'm sorry I just am very critical of their studies and would not want them to be near me during birth, especially jill making some dumbass decisions during her birth with Israel and most likely Sam

Is it weird I actually miss jill on the show? It was a nice change from the typical people. I'm also glad to see ben and jill immediately go into let's call 911. I just really hope Ben tells Jessa that she she wants to keep birthing for jesus she has to go to the hospital from now on. Who am I kidding? She will probably pull the same bullshit with seewald#4

I’m not really bothered by Jill being there this time to be honest. She didn’t seem to be there to deliver the baby - she was there more to help support Jessa and handle filming for the show. She did a decent job on both counts and was quick to agree they should call 911, so I’m kind of glad she was there to support Benessa. 

7 minutes ago, DillyDally said:

So why exactly is Jill "allowed" back on the show? I remember last season, they completely avoided just mentioning her name, let alone show any flashbacks with her in it. I found that really weird, especially when they were talking about difficult births, since Jill's were quite dramatic (at least with Izzy). Nope, not a single mention of her back then. Now she's narrating Jessa's birth special. Huh.

It’s been mentioned already. Most of the family was at Carlin Bates’s wedding in Tennessee when Jessa’s water broke - I want to say everyone at the TTH, JoStin, SiRen, and the Smuggars were all there. JoKen and J’Abbie might have been as well. Jill was likely the only family member available and with knowledge of how filming a birth works at the time her water broke.

I do find it mildly amusing that they introduced her as “Jill, Jessa’s sister,” as if the audience didn’t spend years helping TLC exploit her childhood and then years enjoying watching her flounder her way into adulthood and parenthood. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by VelociRapture

[Iamtheway]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Epidural: $3,000

I didn’t pay anything for mine but it would have been worth every penny. 

[Scoodilypoop]

In the scene of the entire Duggar family having dinner at Jessa's to meet the baby, Josiah was wearing a "never forget" shirt with a dinosaur on it, which were made to pick fun at patriotism in the aftermath of 9/11, which doesn't seem particularly on-brand for that family. Could just be general ignorance and thrift store shopping, but what do you all think?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Scoodilypoop
Editing to clarify that it was definitely Josiah because he also wore it in a talking head. I didn't finish the episode before originally posting.

[nst]

On 6/16/2019 at 8:45 PM, justmy2cents said:

My DVR is showing that there will be a baby Ivy birth special on 6/25. Seems she went into labor while the rest of the family was at Carlins wedding and Ben ended up calling the paramedics at some point.

well that is totally interesting that she ended up back in the hospital 

totally watching 

6 hours ago, seashell1025 said:

It came out today! Here's a summary for everyone who wants to save 20 minutes of their day!

 

  Hide contents

 

We start off with Jessa telling everyone that she had finished drinking her smoothie for breakfast on the 25th and her water broke right there in the kitchen.  

Enter Jill who comes to the rescue to help out since Michelle and Jana and everyone else is away for the weekend. 

Ben's mom watches Henry and Spurge because they had planned on doing a birth at the hospital if I am remembering correctly with their Midwife but she (midwife) had just gone out of town that day, so they opted for a home birth and called a different midwife. Thankfully, Jill did not do the midwifery.  She was our narrator.  

Jessa makes a castor oil strawberry smoothie. gross.  Jill says it has no taste, Jessa disagrees and says it's nasty. Jill and Jessa go to the Big House to walk the stairway to kickstart labor. Eventually it does and they go back to Ben and Jessa's house.  

Josiah and Lauren and Michelle and Jana make a quick getaway via plane to hopefully make it to the birth in time. they didnt, spoiler alert.

*insert some awkward Jill banter here* 

Only a few hours of actual labor happen and next thing you know Ivy Jane is here! Insert tears of Joy here.  Everyone sees the baby and holds her.  

Jessa's bleeding didn't stop again, however this time since they knew she has had a history of this, Ben makes the final decision to call 911 earlier than before.  She is shipped to the hospital via ambulance. She did not need a Blood Transfusion this time and the Pitocin IV they gave her stopped the bleeding. She only had to stay one night. 

Ben's family and Spurgeon and Henry meet baby Ivy for the first time, and then Michelle and Jana and Josiah/Lauren arrive to see the baby and hear her name for the first time.   Ben & Jessa announce to Jordyn and Jer i believe it was the sex and name of the baby via skype on the Duggar's RV/bus. They go out to the rest of the RV and announce it to everyone. Hooray! a girl! 

Then the whole family comes to the Seewald home as per usual and meets Ivy Jane for the first time. Grandma duggar gets to hold ivy the first time since she is her birthday buddy.

JB- cant believe my little girl has a little girl... you know, me and momma started off with two boys and then a girl... 

some musical outro with interviews with the married couples who are pregnant. Family photo. yay! a family of 5. how sweet. 

There ya go! 

 

 

i can't believe jessa allowed jill to narrate this. 

anyone remember the last time they were together it was awkward as hell

I still will watch !! 

is there a reason she won't stop bleeding because that sounds so scary - just for that reason alone i would go to a hospital. 

 

4 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

You would hope that they'd learn something but odds are stacked against that happening.

I also just don't understand why at this point a hospital or birthing center birth wouldn't be automatic for a woman who could have bled our 2/3 times she has given birth. The last thing I would want to do with a newborn is have to call an ambulance and be transported to a hospital and stay for who knows how long. It's also just typically selfish of fundies - tying up emergency response teams when a little foresight could have avoided it all. 

Stupid and reckless, par for the course.

so it's  a really bad thing knowing before hand that she had 2 births and she bled a lot (how much is a lot) and giving birth to number 3 and you don't plan to be at the hospital

sounds....

in layman's terms is it like planning for a weekend trip but forgetting what to put gas in the car? for a trip that takes 2 days to get there? 

[nst]

3 hours ago, Screamapillar said:

When 2 out of 3 homebirth attempts end up with hospitalization for excessive bleeding, it might be time to concede that future intervention-free labor and deliveries aren't for you. If I was Jessa, I would just be on edge the entire time wondering if it was going to happen again. At some point, the emergency hospital transfers have to diminish whatever magical experience you think you're getting from giving birth in your living room as opposed to in a hospital or birthing center.

I'd hate to be someone in NW Arkansas who has the misfortune of suffering a heart attack or getting t-boned at an intersection while a Duggar girl is attempting a homebirth. First responders might be a little tied up.

(Not to imply that Jessa's case did not equally require emergency assistance, just that hers was a foreseeable emergency. Also unnecessary, if she had just been in the hospital with Pitocin to begin with, it could have actually helped to prevent her hemorrhaging.)

 

i bet it's the allure of giving birth on the same sofa she had Henry on. 

I really don't get not going straight to the hospital from the get go.

hemorrhaging is bad yes? 

is it worse than having  your period?

 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, nst said:

well that is totally interesting that she ended up back in the hospital 

totally watching 

i can't believe jessa allowed jill to narrate this. 

anyone remember the last time they were together it was awkward as hell

I still will watch !! 

is there a reason she won't stop bleeding because that sounds so scary - just for that reason alone i would go to a hospital. 

 

Jill and her family stayed behind while everyone else was in Tennessee for Carlin Bates’s wedding. Based off the clips Jill was there to offer emotional support and film for the show. It appears she did a pretty good job on both those tasks and I didn’t sense anything awkward between her and Benessa. 

I don’t know what caused her to hemorrhage after two of her births, but I’d consider that a big sign that any potential future births should be handled in a Hospital setting (or at least a birth center attached to a Hospital.) 

1 hour ago, nst said:

i bet it's the allure of giving birth on the same sofa she had Henry on. 

I really don't get not going straight to the hospital from the get go.

hemorrhaging is bad yes? 

is it worse than having  your period?

 

Yes. It’s absolutely bad. Women have died due to postpartum hemorrhages. There are varying degrees of seriousness, but it can be a fatal complication of childbirth. Jessa needed a transfusion after suffering one with Spurgeon, though this time it appears medicine was enough to stop the bleeding for her.

Edited June 20, 2019 by VelociRapture

[nst]

2 hours ago, DillyDally said:

So why exactly is Jill "allowed" back on the show? I remember last season, they completely avoided just mentioning her name, let alone show any flashbacks with her in it. I found that really weird, especially when they were talking about difficult births, since Jill's were quite dramatic (at least with Izzy). Nope, not a single mention of her back then. Now she's narrating Jessa's birth special. Huh.

because it's  a very special episode

that or because Derick insisted and Jill does whatever he says

did she use the big words

and sorry I don't know about about hemorrhaging and giving birth lingo 

 

[SCROW10]

2 hours ago, DillyDally said:

So why exactly is Jill "allowed" back on the show? I remember last season, they completely avoided just mentioning her name, let alone show any flashbacks with her in it. I found that really weird, especially when they were talking about difficult births, since Jill's were quite dramatic (at least with Izzy). Nope, not a single mention of her back then. Now she's narrating Jessa's birth special. Huh.

I think they really didn't have a choice. It seems most of the footage was filmed by Jill as she was the only one near by when she went into labor. So its either no footage or Jill footage.
Even in the hospital you can see them filming on the cell phone and hear Jill behind the camera. I don't think the camera crew showed up till the family came to meet Ivy.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Jessa went early this time, no?  So her going into labor during the Bates wedding was not expected, and my guess is whoever was supposed to film wasn’t there.  It was probably Jill or no footage, so Jill it was.

The whole ‘midwife was out of town’ story sounds fishy to me.  

ETA: @SCROW10 you beat me to it!

Edited June 19, 2019 by Snarkasarus Rex

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Scoodilypoop said:

In the scene of the entire Duggar family having dinner at Jessa's to meet the baby, Josiah was wearing a "never forget" shirt with a dinosaur on it, which were made to pick fun at patriotism in the aftermath of 9/11, which doesn't seem particularly on-brand for that family. Could just be general ignorance and thrift store shopping, but what do you all think?

I don't get why this shirt mocks 911. 

I would take it (on a fundie) as a never forget dinosaurs are a lie and the earth is only 6000 years old????????

Would people who lost loved ones in 911 take offence at that?

Is it common knowledge that this is an offensive shirt?

Would he be intentionally wearing it to make a statement like their roe vs wade ones?

I always wondered about fundies and dinosaurs. They must have (maybe in the old days) gotten so many hand me down donations of clothes. Little boy and now more common for girls (yippeeee) clothes have a lot of dinosaur motifs. did they discard them or use them. 

what if a child wants a dinosaur toy. 

I do think there is vast majority of kids who go through a dinosaur mad craze.

Anyway a rambling post lol 

[justmy2cents]

45 minutes ago, nst said:

i bet it's the allure of giving birth on the same sofa she had Henry on. 

I really don't get not going straight to the hospital from the get go.

hemorrhaging is bad yes? 

is it worse than having  your period?

 

As others have said yes, it can be very dangerous. A coworker of mine ended up with a hysterectomy a few days after her daughter's birth. Drs. couldn't stop the bleeding and the surgery was performed to save her life. I think it would be reckless for Jessa to continue to birth at home. If the story of her wanting to go to a hospital is true then maybe she delivered at home because Theresa didn't have hospital privileges. Once can be a fluke, but twice is a pattern.

Edited June 19, 2019 by justmy2cents

[ViolaSebastian]

12 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I don't get why this shirt mocks 911. 

I would take it (on a fundie) as a never forget dinosaurs are a lie and the earth is only 6000 years old????????

Would people who lost loved ones in 911 take offence at that?

Is it common knowledge that this is an offensive shirt?

Would he be intentionally wearing it to make a statement like their roe vs wade ones?

I always wondered about fundies and dinosaurs. They must have (maybe in the old days) gotten so many hand me down donations of clothes. Little boy and now more common for girls (yippeeee) clothes have a lot of dinosaur motifs. did they discard them or use them. 

what if a child wants a dinosaur toy. 

I do think there is vast majority of kids who go through a dinosaur mad craze.

Anyway a rambling post lol 

I believe the official fundamentalist line (according to the Creation Museum, an actual place in my actual state of residence) is that there were dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden. There were also dinosaurs that were brought aboard Noah's ark. Most of the cultural myths involving dragons are actually references to the dinosaurs that were totally galavanting around with people. These dinosaurs then died out because the post-flood environment was different than before. An alternate theory is that dinosaurs weren't taken on the ark and that they all died in the flood. I've also heard fundamentalists deny dinosaurs altogether and say that their bones were put in the ground by Satan to confuse people and steer them away from God.

So...yeah...there's a lot to unpack there, so here's a gif:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[AussieKrissy]

1 minute ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I believe the official fundamentalist line (according to the Creation Museum, an actual place in my actual state of residence) is that there were dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden. There were also dinosaurs that were brought aboard Noah's ark. Most of the cultural myths involving dragons are actually references to the dinosaurs that were totally galavanting around with people. These dinosaurs then died out because the post-flood environment was different than before. An alternate theory is that dinosaurs weren't taken on the ark and that they all died in the flood. I've also heard fundamentalists deny dinosaurs altogether and say that their bones were put in the ground by Satan to confuse people and steer them away from God.

So...yeah...there's a lot to unpack there, so here's a gif:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I worked with a (obviously fundie) doctor who actually brought me in a book that 'explained' how all the common dragon mythology all over the world explained dinosaurs. HE IS A DOCTOR, I could not believe it, I loved my discussions with him because of my obsession with fundies 

[JordynDarby5]

48 minutes ago, SCROW10 said:

I think they really didn't have a choice. It seems most of the footage was filmed by Jill as she was the only one near by when she went into labor. So its either no footage or Jill footage.
Even in the hospital you can see them filming on the cell phone and hear Jill behind the camera. I don't think the camera crew showed up till the family came to meet Ivy.

That's probably it. There didn't seem to be anyone else to film or for support. 2/3 ending up in the hospital isn't good. It would be nice if they learned from it but I doubt it.

This is probably a weird question but is it weird that they went to TTH for awhile even though no one was there and then returned home?