Seewalds 41: Christian Hero Ivy Jane

[HerNameIsBuffy]

15 minutes ago, Topaz said:

so you can’t really make a call based on the sex of a baby any more.

Yep.  When my only brother had his first child and it was a boy my dad was so relieved the name thing was covered.  As of yet he doesn’t have kids.

My youngest also has no kids yet (because he’s not a DuggarBates) but when he was 18 he changed his name and took my maiden name so if he does have kids down the road our apparently hard to spell and  even harder to pronounce correctly last name is safe.

however, as we are not royalty and there are no titles or fortunes attached to it it doesn’t really matter.

[lumpentheologie]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

however, as we are not royalty and there are no titles or fortunes attached to it it doesn’t really matter.

So this.  I don't get why anyone cares what their potential descendants are named.  It's not like it makes them any more or less your family. 

[oldfashionedgal]

1 hour ago, lumpentheologie said:

So this.  I don't get why anyone cares what their potential descendants are named.  It's not like it makes them any more or less your family. 

I don’t understand it either! My husband has always said he hope for a boy to “carry on the family name”. Husband is an only son but he does have cousins with our name, I don’t see what the difference is. Except that the uncle who gave them that name may or may not be a paedophile... 

[justmy2cents]

My DVR is showing that there will be a baby Ivy birth special on 6/25. Seems she went into labor while the rest of the family was at Carlins wedding and Ben ended up calling the paramedics at some point.

Edited June 17, 2019 by justmy2cents

[JordynDarby5]

 

8 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yep.  When my only brother had his first child and it was a boy my dad was so relieved the name thing was covered.  As of yet he doesn’t have kids.

My youngest also has no kids yet (because he’s not a DuggarBates) but when he was 18 he changed his name and took my maiden name so if he does have kids down the road our apparently hard to spell and  even harder to pronounce correctly last name is safe.

however, as we are not royalty and there are no titles or fortunes attached to it it doesn’t really matter.

I've never really understood it either. My great-grandfather's brother was very bothered that he had no grandsons to carry on the family name. He had two sons who ended up having all girls and two daughters who had sons and daughters. I don't know why it bothered him so much. He had four healthy children and several healthy grandchildren. My great-grandfather could never figure out why it bothered his brother so much. Biologically he had no children, he adopted his wife's two daughters when they married and raised them as his own. They both married and had children. He didn't care that he never had a son to carry on their family name he had two daughters, six grandchildren and tons of great-grandchildren. If my nephew had been a girl there wouldn't be a boy to carry on our family name because the only other male cousin has never married or has any kids. But it never bothered my dad he was just happy to have a grandchild boy or girl. Besides having sons is no guarantee they'll marry and have children. As one cousin has never had kids, and another male cousin on my mom's side died in his 20s and never had any kids either. 

I don’t understand it either! My husband has always said he hope for a boy to “carry on the family name”. Husband is an only son but he does have cousins with our name, I don’t see what the difference is. Except that the uncle who gave them that name may or may not be a paedophile... 

I've always hated hearing that. Why is it just a boy thing? Why can't girls carry on the name? My mother always wanted to do but it wasn't done when she got married or she would have kept her maiden named and hyphenated her kids last name. I've always wanted to do the same thing. 

[SillyDillys]

I saw as well in the episode description that paramedics had to be called again. Hopefully when Seewald #4 comes Ben puts his foot down and makes Jessa go to the hospital 

[grandmadugger]

So when will these girls look at Jinger and think “she seemed to have such an easy birth maybe I should see a real midwife and give birth in a hospital “ 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

My dad is really upset, that my brother is the last male of our family surname, my brother has only one daughter, and my father being a misogynistic asshat, assumes this will be the end of his family line.  Whose to say my niece will changer her name when she marries? Whose to say she will ever marry? Whose to say she will have kids?  

[Someone Out There]

I don't understand why the 'name' goes through the males anyway (yes I know realistically its historical reasons).  If you want to be technical about it, you can only be 100% sure on 1/2 of the childs parentage (DNA tests can help with the other half).

[SweetJuly]

I'm female, I kept my last name when I married, and our daughter has my last name. I'm not a big fan of my last name, but I decided to keep it unless I married someone with a much better one. MrJuly does not have a much better one. He would actually prefer to take his mother's last name which is much more beautiful and much easier to pronounce, but Belgium is a very difficult country when it comes to changing names. Basically someone with his last name would have to commit some atrocity for my husband to be able to change it.

@Iamtheway Someone once told me that it was really easy to change one's name in Sweden, and that many couples actually picked/made up a new last name when they got married. Is that true? It sounds amazing!

As the girl names we picked worked better with my last name, and the boy names we picked worked better with my husband's last name, we agreed to use mine if we had a girl and his if we had a boy. LittleJuly is a girl, so my name it is. All future children have to have the same last name by law, meaning we might have to reconsider the boy names we picked if we ever have a son.

I have to admit that I very much wanted a girl first. I can't explain why as I am not at all girly myself. There is a lot of females in my family, and except for my father there's only been females in my immediate family growing up, so I think it just felt natural to me to have a daughter. My husband felt a bit of a preference for a boy at the beginning as there are mainly males in his family and the thought of having a son therefore felt more natural to him.

I've recently talked to him if he'd have any preference for a second. I would truly be happy either way as I'd love to know what a son of ours would be like. At the same time I'd love a second girl as I have a sister and have always enjoyed the dynamics. I thought my husband would feel the same, but he confessed that he'd actually prefer another girl because he thinks he'd find it easier to emotionally connect with her than with a son. He only learned to admit and express his feelings with me (and later LittleJuly), so he's not used to being emotional with males. Personally I know that he'd have nothing to worry about and would be as wonderful a father to a son as he is to our daughter.

After all, boy or girl, they all start out as babies and he adores babies

Edited June 17, 2019 by SweetJuly

[VelociRapture]

16 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yep.  When my only brother had his first child and it was a boy my dad was so relieved the name thing was covered.  As of yet he doesn’t have kids.

My youngest also has no kids yet (because he’s not a DuggarBates) but when he was 18 he changed his name and took my maiden name so if he does have kids down the road our apparently hard to spell and  even harder to pronounce correctly last name is safe.

however, as we are not royalty and there are no titles or fortunes attached to it it doesn’t really matter.

Yeah. The comments our fathers made bugged me for a few reasons:

1. It assumes our son will absolutely have children that carry on the name.

2. It assumes our daughter won’t keep her name or won’t give it to any children she might have. It also unintentionally implies she isn’t “worthy” of carrying it on because she’s a girl - something our dads definitely didn’t mean because they both clearly adore her.

3. It assumes our son will keep his name. Both grandpas should know better on that one since my brother took my mom’s maiden name when he legally transitioned to male.*

Husband and I would be happy if one or both our kids decided to have children one day, but that’s not something we want them to feel forced to do if it isn’t the right choice for them. The only things we care about are that they’re happy, healthy, safe, and that they’re being productive members of society. If kids don’t factor into that then we can always volunteer to help out with kids somehow to get our “grandkid” fix.

*It was nothing against our family. Our dad’s name is just a harsh sounding German name that people automatically associate with our family. He wanted a fresh start with a completely new name and our mom’s maiden name is a more common Irish surname, so it gave him a bit of the anonymity that he wanted.

[Iamtheway]

1 hour ago, SweetJuly said:

mtheway Someone once told me that it was really easy to change one's name in Sweden, and that many couples actually picked/made up a new last name when they got married. Is that true? It sounds amazing!

It’s true. It is pretty easy. But if you want to take a new name it has to be a name that is completly new so that no one else has it or a name that more then 2000 people have. If there is under 2000 people that have the name you might still be able to change it, but you have to ask all of them if it’s ok. 

If it’s a name that is or has been in your family you can change to it if you meet certain criterias. Mr Way and I changed to my grandmother’s maiden name when we got married. I’ve always liked both that name and that grandmother and she didn’t have any siblings so I have no relatives with it. I needed to send in some aplications and find some different proofs of the name being in my family but it wasn’t very hard. 

Now I kind of wish we had both just kept our names though, but when we were married I thought it was important for us to have a family name (why? We’d still be a family either way) and I thought my name was a bit boring (it’s not). Mr Way’s last name means something in Swedish that I did not want to be named, and that would be an invitation to bullies for our children. And he didn’t want to take my name either. Partly for some sort of ”that’s not what men does” reason that is very unlike him but also since it has a letter that English doesn’t have and it would be a bit complicated if we ever want to live in Australia. 

It seems to be even easier to change your name in Australia though, because Mr Way did it there and I’m pretty sure he just filled out a paper and said ”this is my name now”. I might be remembering this wrong but I don’t think he had to have a reason or anything. 

[AussieKrissy]

2 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

It’s true. It is pretty easy. But if you want to take a new name it has to be a name that is completly new so that no one else has it or a name that more then 2000 people have. If there is under 2000 people that have the name you might still be able to change it, but you have to ask all of them if it’s ok. 

If it’s a name that is or has been in your family you can change to it if you meet certain criterias. Mr Way and I changed to my grandmother’s maiden name when we got married. I’ve always liked both that name and that grandmother and she didn’t have any siblings so I have no relatives with it. I needed to send in some aplications and find some different proofs of the name being in my family but it wasn’t very hard. 

Now I kind of wish we had both just kept our names though, but when we were married I thought it was important for us to have a family name (why? We’d still be a family either way) and I thought my name was a bit boring (it’s not). Mr Way’s last name means something in Swedish that I did not want to be named, and that would be an invitation to bullies for our children. And he didn’t want to take my name either. Partly for some sort of ”that’s not what men does” reason that is very unlike him but also since it has a letter that English doesn’t have and it would be a bit complicated if we ever want to live in Australia. 

It seems to be even easier to change your name in Australia though, because Mr Way did it there and I’m pretty sure he just filled out a paper and said ”this is my name now”. I might be remembering this wrong but I don’t think he had to have a reason or anything. 

Yep. I’m pretty sure it’s easy to change your name in Australia. Proof of reason aka marriage or divorce. But if you want to change it because you don’t like it. You don’t need to give a reason. My friend changed her first name and it was no major hassle. 

[JordynDarby5]

That doesn't surprise me about Sweden. They used to change surnames every time children were born. For example if the father's name was Lars Hanson, his sons would have the last name Larsons or Larssons and his daughters would be Larsdotters or Larssdotters. Each son he had their first names would become their children's last name adding the son and dotter. It was so cool (although very confusing when trying to trace the family tree). My family continued for several generations after immigrating to the US. Iceland still does that. 

[OyToTheVey]

On 6/16/2019 at 7:14 AM, lumpentheologie said:

I'm not the OP, but I have some experience that speaks to this. Alcoholism can definitely kill you young. And in Russia it often does, especially for men. They drown at very high rates, get in accidents, fall off things, freeze to death, etc.  When I lived there seeing men passed out on the street in the winter, in -20C or worse temps, was not a rare occurrence. That's not to mention the ones that die simply from having too much alcohol in their blood. 

As to wars, it's true that there haven't been major wars for Russia recently, although I would count the war in Afghanistan in the 80s as a significant loss of male life. 

I personally have had relatives and family friends who passed out on a bench in Russia and froze to death. It might shock people just how often that actually happens. The winters are ridiculously cold and long, It's really not rare to see a 25 year old drunk in any village or even big cities. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

I personally have had relatives and family friends who passed out on a bench in Russia and froze to death. It might shock people just how often that actually happens. The winters are ridiculously cold and long, It's really not rare to see a 25 year old drunk in any village or even big cities. 

I wonder too about the general risk taking that comes along with high rates of drinking, like car accidents and stupid stunts with friends. Also statistically, young men are more likely to die as a result of violence, and I'm sure drinking only increases this. 

Here are the Pew Research stats on the problem:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/

I do wonder how Soviet women in the 50s and 60s fared with so many men dead after World War II. What a massive social change that must have been. BTW, there is an interesting book called Singled Out: How Two Million British Women Survived Without Men After the First World War for anyone interested in how one country dealt with this problem. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by nausicaa

[louisa05]

My aunt had six boys. By number four, she was a bit disappointed with each new boy. She loved her boys with every fiber of her being, but she would have liked to have a daughter, too. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If it's number one, maybe relax. If it's number two, so be it. But when you get to number six and they are all one gender, there's nothing wrong with thinking it would be nice to have the other. 

And, no, they weren't crazy fundies. And they didn't have any of them just to "get a girl". My aunt loved being a mom and they could afford to raise them. 

[Sullie06]

On 6/15/2019 at 4:52 PM, patsymae said:

"We have a good friend who's parents had 3 boys, they decided to adopt a little girl after that then try again because all they wanted was a girl and they would not be guaranteed one if they had another biological child. It's wonderful that they were able to give their daughter a loving home and good life but that's a lot to go through (international adoption) to just to have a girl."

Not saying it didn't work out wonderfully in your family, but it often doesn't. Just anecdotally, I have a friend who was adopted from Korea because her adoptive parents also only had boys and the Amom always dreamed of having a little girl named "Kari Ann." So Hya had to be the Kari Ann the woman always wanted. She very much resents that she was taken from her culture and homeland and language and, in her opinion, forced to become someone she wasn't. As an adult she has cut ties with the Amom, legally taken back her Korean name, visited Korea several times in search of her natural family, joined an organization of Korean adoptees and is raising her child as a very Korean American Korean American.
I also know a few, and know of more, women who were adopted from foster care at an older age because the Amom always wanted a girl. When it turned out they weren't grateful adoptee girly-girls who didn't want to bond with Amom over manipedis and chick flicks, things went south.
(Don't bother with happy adoptee stories; I'm happy for them but that's not my point).

Oh it wasn't my family. Just a good friend of mine and the point was more so how some families would go to have a child of a certain sex. Believe me I know how poorly adoptions can go, I used to do home studies for adoptions. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I hate it when family's interfere when it comes to children's names. My grandmother told my mum that my sister's name sounded similar to the nickname a brand of super strength lager had where I lived. If she hadn't just had a c section, I think she would have punched my gran. I prefer for first names to use names that are not already family names and save family names for middle names. Having a girl no longer means they won't continue the family name because they may choose to keep it and pass it on to others.

[NorthernGal]

While pregnant with my first child I wanted a girl.  That was 29 years ago and I guess I really wanted a girl to dress up.  My reason are vague.  But it remained I truly wanted a girl and thought getting a boy would be a booby prize.  After 48 hours of labour NorthernSon1 was born.  Being extremely fatigue my first response to "It's a Boy" was "Are you sure"  Somehow in the recesses of my very exhaused brain I recalled reading that when babies are born there genitals can be swollen to the extent a girl could like like a boy.  In any case I can assure you once he was in my arms all thoughts of a boy being a booby prize vanished.   My reason for posting is just because it was such an amusing first response to the Dr telling me it was a boy. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I hate it when family's interfere when it comes to children's names. My grandmother told my mum that my sister's name sounded similar to the nickname a brand of super strength lager had where I lived. If she hadn't just had a c section, I think she would have punched my gran. I prefer for first names to use names that are not already family names and save family names for middle names. Having a girl no longer means they won't continue the family name because they may choose to keep it and pass it on to others.

This is why we refuse to share our picks before our babies arrive. My side probably wouldn’t be too opinionated about it, but my MIL would. Just last night we FaceTimed with our daughter to wish FIL a happy Father’s Day and he jokingly said we should call the new baby “Little Danny”* because that’s what he always jokingly calls little boys. I actually really like the name Daniel*, but we aren’t using it because it’s one of my nephew’s middle names and we don’t want to use the same names as them. It’s also a family name on both sides for me and was the first name of my “bonus” grandpa (my step-grandpa), who I adored when I was little. MIL, however, is not a fan of the name because apparently everyone she knew with that name wound up in jail. She was partly joking, but it did piss me off a bit and I half-jokingly called her out for it. The way I look at it though she had her chance to name three boys, now it’s our turn, and she doesn’t get to have a say in it. If she doesn’t like what our choice eventually is then she can just suck it up and deal with it. 

*Not the actual name, but the same general idea. It’s a name that’s relatively traditional for our general area and wouldn’t be considered at all unique or different. That seems to be our general naming style, as our daughter has a name that’s traditional for our area too. 

[Glasgowghirl]

40 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

This is why we refuse to share our picks before our babies arrive. My side probably wouldn’t be too opinionated about it, but my MIL would. Just last night we FaceTimed with our daughter to wish FIL a happy Father’s Day and he jokingly said we should call the new baby “Little Danny”* because that’s what he always jokingly calls little boys. I actually really like the name Daniel*, but we aren’t using it because it’s one of my nephew’s middle names and we don’t want to use the same names as them. It’s also a family name on both sides for me and was the first name of my “bonus” grandpa (my step-grandpa), who I adored when I was little. MIL, however, is not a fan of the name because apparently everyone she knew with that name wound up in jail. She was partly joking, but it did piss me off a bit and I half-jokingly called her out for it. The way I look at it though she had her chance to name three boys, now it’s our turn, and she doesn’t get to have a say in it. If she doesn’t like what our choice eventually is then she can just suck it up and deal with it. 

*Not the actual name, but the same general idea. It’s a name that’s relatively traditional for our general area and wouldn’t be considered at all unique or different. That seems to be our general naming style, as our daughter has a name that’s traditional for our area too. 

My family had a tradition of all the oldest son's being called John. When my parent's had my brother they broke that tradition. My dad was officially called John but his parent's always called Ian, he didn't know his real name was John until teacher's were calling him that when he started school. 

[OyToTheVey]

5 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I wonder too about the general risk taking that comes along with high rates of drinking, like car accidents and stupid stunts with friends. Also statistically, young men are more likely to die as a result of violence, and I'm sure drinking only increases this. 

Here are the Pew Research stats on the problem:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/

I do wonder how Soviet women in the 50s and 60s fared with so many men dead after World War II. What a massive social change that must have been. BTW, there is an interesting book called Singled Out: How Two Million British Women Survived Without Men After the First World War for anyone interested in how one country dealt with this problem. 

When I said alcoholism, I didn't mean death from liver failure. Most likely cause is accidental death. As you said car accidents and reckless behavior. A crazy amount is just freezing to death. 

 

Thanks for the link. It's very interesting when it's all broken down like that.

[nolongerIFBx]

On 6/15/2019 at 11:21 PM, Ticklish said:

I have 2 girls, and when we started telling people our 2nd child was a girl, the vast majority responded with some variation of "guess you'll have to have another to get a boy/your husband must be so disappointed/that's too bad". It really bothered me that I had to justify my younger daughter's existence to people when my husband and I weren't disappointed in the slightest. Even after she was born, I had to fend off "when are you going to have a boy?" questions, which pissed me off because she had unforeseen complications during birth and literally almost didn't live, so to have people act like she was some inconvenience in a quest to have a boy was infuriating when I was (and still am) just so grateful that she's here at all. 

The day I knew I would be leaving my fundie church: Associate pastor (also pastor's brother) announced he was having a boy. Said something along the lines of "My brother had two girls first but I had a boy first because God knew I didn't need any practice" right in front of his nieces. I really was/am appalled. Why do these stupid things come out of people's mouths! What sex, how many- it's just really no one's business and unless you do abort based on sex, not really something you can control.

[louisa05]

8 hours ago, NorthernGal said:

While pregnant with my first child I wanted a girl.  That was 29 years ago and I guess I really wanted a girl to dress up.  My reason are vague.  But it remained I truly wanted a girl and thought getting a boy would be a booby prize.  After 48 hours of labour NorthernSon1 was born.  Being extremely fatigue my first response to "It's a Boy" was "Are you sure"  Somehow in the recesses of my very exhaused brain I recalled reading that when babies are born there genitals can be swollen to the extent a girl could like like a boy.  In any case I can assure you once he was in my arms all thoughts of a boy being a booby prize vanished.   My reason for posting is just because it was such an amusing first response to the Dr telling me it was a boy. 

My cousin had her first kid at seventeen. Three ultrasounds and they said it was a girl each time. My aunt was in the delivery room with her and when they said "it's a boy" both of them at the same time said an astounded "What?!?!?". The doctor apparently laughed and the nurse was startled. 

We had to help her return some girl things she had already bought or been gifted and she just kept some, so he had a pink sippy cup and several very girly onesies and such. Then his younger brother used them all, too and they were worn out by the time she did have a girl 14 years later.