Josiah and Lauren 14: Another Grand-Duggar on the Way (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[snickerz]

7 hours ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

Oh wow, another girl. Wouldn’t be surprised if JB is already planning on marketing this group of girls as the new Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger 15 years down the road.  I already feel like they’re priming us for that with Johannah, Jordyn, Josie, and Mackynzie in some ways. 

(And Jenny!) Poor Jenny is the (and Kaylee) of the Duggars. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Isn’t he trying to make them into mini-fundy spice girls?

because that’s what the world needs.

I can't imagine Fundie Spice Girls would be very spicy. I guess they'd have to be the Nice Girls?

[JillyO]

9 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

I had an abortion (in the 80's).

I also (before the abortion) placed a child for adoption. The latter has been far more traumatic for me. I attended a Southern Baptist college (Godddd, such a toxic place) during this time that really confused me and left me with this nagging feeling that something was patently wrong with me because I felt no guilt/trauma related to terminating a crisis pregnancy on my own terms. 

Now I'm a middle aged, passionate clinic escort.  

Thank you! For all the compassion I have for people for whom their abortion was a traumatic event, I do think it's important to point out that for many others, it's not traumatic and that's okay too. Nobody should feel bad because they're not traumatized because they had an abortion. And nobody should feel that they shouldn't have an abortion even though they think it's their best option just because the world tells them it will traumatize them.

Also, thank you so much for what you do. I wish this wasn't necessary, but since it is, thank you! ❤️

[Sullie06]

21 hours ago, OhNoNike said:

So, question - why would they be doing the blood tests if they are “pro life” and the results of the test would be irrelevant?

I am seriously asking, because I’ve had babies recently enough that these blood tests were optional for me and I was told not everyone chose to do them. 

I could totally have missed something - I guess it could also give results about maternal health too. 

Also - I am all about finding out all the things possible as far as the baby (any genetic issues etc), but playing devils advocate here. Wondering why they do it if it really doesn’t matter. 

My guess is they want to know if there is any genetic abnormality after having a pregnancy loss so they can prepare. They won't terminate of course but they also can prepare themselves better if they are aware of a genetic abnormality. 

17 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

We skipped medical testing with our first pregnancy, but we had it done this time. I don’t remember exact specifics, but there were four brackets of testing that could be done:

- The first was for Down Syndrome and two Trisomies.

- Second was sex testing that would tell you the exact chromosomal pairing (so XX, XY, XXX, X-, etc.)

- Third was for six conditions like Fragile X Syndrome and Cystic Fibrosis.

- Last one was for, I believe, very rare conditions like Angelman’s Syndrome.  

Each test cost $200 each without insurance. You could pick and choose whichever ones you wanted, but you couldn’t select just the test for the Sex. If you wanted that batch of tests then you also needed to have the testing for Down Syndrome done. I think that was to prevent people from using it simply as a way to learn the sex. 

Husband and I opted to test for the first and third batches. The last batch are conditions that are extremely rare. We felt comfortable skipping those for that reason and because I’m having weekly ultrasounds throughout the second and third trimesters - it’s possible we’d catch an issue through that. We skipped the sex tests as well because we didn’t want to know the exact chromosomal pairings if it came back as something unusual - some pairings can be linked to certain conditions (like ADHD) and we know ourselves well enough to know we’d be anxious over the possibility of our baby eventually showing signs of those conditions. It was best for us and our future baby to just skip it. 

Everything came back negative for me except Fragile X. One of my X chromosomes is normal and the other is just over the normal threshold in what’s called the grey scale (like literally one point over the threshold.) What that means is I’m technically a carrier of the condition, though the odds of either of my children having the actual condition themselves are next to zero. If my daughter is a carrier too then she might eventually pass that along and it could develop into a full blown condition several generations from now. So it was cool to have that done and it resulted in pretty much the best case scenario because now we know it’s something to keep in mind if our daughter wants to have biological children one day. 

We did the same testing with our second after having two pregnancy losses. Found out some of my sex chromosomes carry an extra X. So some are XX and some are XXX, thankfully my daughter did not appear to be a carrier and her sex chromosomes were all "normal" but it's very interesting to find out. 

[Iamtheway]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:24 PM, VelociRapture said:

Any Transgender or gender non-conforming child that might be born to these people is going to suffer greatly due to their bigotry and ignorance. 

The more of them there are the less likely it is, but I really hope all of their kids are straight and identify with the gender that match the genitalia they are born with. It’s hard enough being a child in that family anyway. 

[Casserole]

Curious which of them wrote the one year anniversary instagram post. "We've had more downs than ups." I know the miscarriage was very hard on them but sheesh.. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

46 minutes ago, Casserole said:

"We've had more downs than ups."

I'm sure they don't mean it this way, but it makes the current baby Lauren is carrying seem less important than their miscarriage.  Really odd wording...

[Casserole]

53 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'm sure they don't mean it this way, but it makes the current baby Lauren is carrying seem less important than their miscarriage.  Really odd wording...

Marriage is hard, period, but they are doing their parents/the cult no favors by highlighting why never spending a moment alone, never having a private conversation, never experiencing intimacy or affection, never expressing emotions, never being taught how to fight fair/handle conflict does a MASSIVE disservice to these babies getting married and immediately having babies. 

The first year of marriage should be the blissful honeymoon phase, not the "more downs than ups" reality check phase. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Casserole

[GuineaPigCourtship]

1 minute ago, Casserole said:

Marriage is hard, period,

Amen!  Some days I tell my husband no jury would convict me if he keeps pushing my buttons, and some days we finish each others' sentences.  We still have way more ups than downs and luckily always have (regardless of what life has thrown at us), because we carry each other through the tough stuff.  I can't IMAGINE if I'd married one of my earlier boyfriends who were less well suited for me before I figured that out.  Ugh.

[Daisy0322]

6 hours ago, Casserole said:

The first year of marriage should be the blissful honeymoon phase, not the "more downs than ups" reality check phase. 

Our first year I got pregnant almost immediately unplanned and I ended up on bedrest for 4 months with our son and we both almost died not to mention I couldn't work so my hubby worked 3 jobs and we still look back fondly on that year. We grew a lot as a couple and learn a lot about what for better or for worse and sickness and in health means. We learned so much about each other and how to communicate. It was extremely hard but the first years are, they're just also beautifully hard. We are about to finish up year 3 and while that's a drop in the bucket I still feel like we are in the early years and we learn what it means to be married more each day and you can't look at it as in more ups or more downs just doing life with each other. 

I think their problem is really Their perspective but thats because they have none. I mean we were 24 & 23 when we got married but weren't cult children without life skills. I can't imagine their lack of coping skills and experiences and trying to be married. 

[JanasTattooParlor]

3 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

I think their problem is really Their perspective but thats because they have none. I mean we were 24 & 23 when we got married but weren't cult children without life skills. I can't imagine their lack of coping skills and experiences and trying to be married. 

I think it’s also largely because they’re told that marriage is wonderful because God created it and none of their family has struggled like they have to initially conceive. The rest of Josiah’s family have had relatively easy pregnancies, other than the births of course, and their parents have told them how perfect and wonderful marriage it. They went into marriage expecting sunshine and rainbows and like you said, don’t have the coping skills to deal with what they went though. It’s sad that their parents didn’t allow them the experience to adequately figure out what an adult relationship is like. 

[Leftitinmysnood]

On 6/25/2019 at 5:20 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Isn’t he trying to make them into mini-fundy spice girls?

because that’s what the world needs.

Oh thanks, now my earworm is "Please tell me what I want, what I really, really want."

[VelociRapture]

21 hours ago, Casserole said:

Curious which of them wrote the one year anniversary instagram post. "We've had more downs than ups." I know the miscarriage was very hard on them but sheesh.. 

Lauren didn’t simply lose a pregnancy. In their beliefs, they lost a child. Not only that, but they lost a child who would have been due on the same exact day as Jessa was due with Ivy - meaning they had to watch Jessa go through each stage of pregnancy Lauren would have been at in real time. I’m fortunate not to have that specific experience, but I would assume that could be incredibly difficult for any woman. The fact that she’s Fundie and was raised in a “HAVE ALL TEH BABIEZ!” cult could very well have made that much worse for them both as could the fact they never had time alone together prior to marriage... but it’s equally as possible it still would have been a significant struggle for them regardless of those facts as well. 

In addition to the miscarriage, Josiah also lost his grandmother recently. All of the Duggar grandkids seemed to really love Mary and I’m sure that can’t have been easy on them at all. So they’ve had two significant losses during their first year of marriage and those are only the struggles we do know about. 

19 hours ago, Casserole said:

Marriage is hard, period, but they are doing their parents/the cult no favors by highlighting why never spending a moment alone, never having a private conversation, never experiencing intimacy or affection, never expressing emotions, never being taught how to fight fair/handle conflict does a MASSIVE disservice to these babies getting married and immediately having babies. 

The first year of marriage should be the blissful honeymoon phase, not the "more downs than ups" reality check phase. 

Marriage is different for everyone. I look back on our first year with a lot of mixed feelings. We had some great moments, but also some very difficult ones - including my miscarriage, the anxiety that plagued me throughout my entire second pregnancy, and the fact that Trump was elected when I was about 30 weeks pregnant. I consider it one of our toughest years together, if not the toughest, which is saying a lot considering we’ll celebrate twelve years since we started dating this fall, we’ve lived together for six of those years this summer, and we’ll celebrate four years of marriage this November. So I don’t necessarily think it’s realistic or fair to claim that the first year should be a blissful honeymoon phase for everyone. It’s not. 

ETA: And as SiRen mentioned in the rest of that post, I wouldn’t change our story for anything. Our struggles that first year were significant and I hated we had to go through what we did, but it made us stronger people and made our marriage much stronger as well. I’m grateful for our experiences now because we wouldn’t be the people we are today had we not gone through them. I get the feeling that SiRen feels the same way based off that post - they wish they hadn’t gone through what they did, but they feel it brought them closer as a couple and they’re grateful for how they’ve grown together the last year.

Edited July 1, 2019 by VelociRapture

[fluffernutter]

13 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Our first year I got pregnant almost immediately unplanned and I ended up on bedrest for 4 months with our son and we both almost died not to mention I couldn't work so my hubby worked 3 jobs and we still look back fondly on that year. We grew a lot as a couple and learn a lot about what for better or for worse and sickness and in health means. We learned so much about each other and how to communicate. It was extremely hard but the first years are, they're just also beautifully hard. We are about to finish up year 3 and while that's a drop in the bucket I still feel like we are in the early years and we learn what it means to be married more each day and you can't look at it as in more ups or more downs just doing life with each other. 

I think their problem is really Their perspective but thats because they have none. I mean we were 24 & 23 when we got married but weren't cult children without life skills. I can't imagine their lack of coping skills and experiences and trying to be married. 

Wow that sounds like a roller coaster! So glad you and baby were both ok! We got pregnant a few months into our marriage too (no issues with the pregnancy). We were both 20. OMG I can't believe we were that young. I had just finished my associates in interior design and my husband had just started college. We were so unprepared. But we got through it just fine, broke as hell, but so many memories of that first year. My 21st we went to see Nightmare Before Christmas (this was Nov 1993), and I fell asleep, I was so tired. Me making sugar cookies at Christmas time and them not turning out. I cried and cried because I knew I would be a shitty mom if I couldn't even make cookies! Us defrosting the freezer in our crap apartment and me using a knife to chip away- put a hole in the side and all the freon leaked out, so we called poison control to make sure I was safe because of the pregnancy. Then us eating our frozen wedding cake top because we couldn't let it go bad. Us eating ice cream. Like a whole lotta ice cream lol. A crazy- bad winter of 94. Her birth on April 1st, and my aunt didn't believe me because she thought it was an April Fool's joke. Yeah, it was a crazy first year but it was ours. She's 25 now and getting married in September. Where the hell does time go?! So bittersweet. 

[Markie]

Wonder if there are more downs for Siren than we are aware of? They lost the baby and Grandma Mary died are the two big ones. Perhaps Josiah has been trying to get a job off The Duggar paycheque and hasn’t had much luck. Perhaps the whole living with each other and getting used to their idiosyncrasies was very trying. Perhaps Lauren lost a beloved family member. 

The show and their Instagram are such a small part of their lives it’s hard to really know Josiah and Lauren. 

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

I just don't understand how Lauren knew she was due the EXACT same day as Jessa. As far as I know she was only a few weeks along so probably wouldn't have had her first scan. How would she have known? Do the Duggars openly discuss the days they had sex?

Before people jump on me, I'm not saying they're lying about the miscarriage. 

[AtlanticTug]

I have a lot of sympathy for them because I had 5 IVF cycles, 3 FETs and 6 (!) miscarriages (earliest 6+3, latest 14+4) and spent well over $100K out of pocket to have our 2 kids. 

But she honestly doesn’t sound like somebody who is doing that well. I don’t get the sense she is coping at all and so everything she says is OTT melodramatic. I found myself the best fertility therapist money could buy and she saved my life. Because the Duggars are so ass backwards about mental health, she is left this way. It’s horribly unhealthy and her child will suffer for it if she quickly doesn’t get things under control. It’s really damaging to live in the shadow of a dead sibling when your parents make no steps to deal with the situation at all, particularly one who was never born and can only be glorified as perfect.

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by AtlanticTug

[JanasTattooParlor]

26 minutes ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I just don't understand how Lauren knew she was due the EXACT same day as Jessa. As far as I know she was only a few weeks along so probably wouldn't have had her first scan. How would she have known? Do the Duggars openly discuss the days they had sex?

Before people jump on me, I'm not saying they're lying about the miscarriage. 

My SIL miscarried at six weeks in October this past year and they knew their due date at five weeks. She’s now pregnant again and knew her due date at her first appt at six weeks. It’s definitely possible that they knew that soon from a doctors appt.  

[Ash]

You get an estimated due date at your first pregnancy appointment. It's calculated based on your last menstrual period.

[FaithAndReason]

Of the many problems with Fundamentalism, courtship,  and quiver full, is that these 2nd gen kids are prepared for nothing regarding relationships and intimacy, then they are thrown in the deep end of the pool on their wedding day, potentially immediately pregnant, and they’ve never spent any time alone with each other. This is compounded by the fact that their “rules” tell them that by following the rules they will have perfect, Godly, happy, strife-free lives but only if they follow the rules. What a shock it must be to struggle in anyway, shape or form if you’ve followed all the rules!!  Not only are you struggling with learning to be married but you were promised God would make things perfect. And THEN there’s the message, by some, that miscarriage or infertility is punishment by God for your sins! But you folllowed the rules!!! I mean the mind-fuckery must be overwhelming. I feel badly for these kids. Their parents really screwed them up. I don’t know how any of them survive the reality of adulthood. 

[Daisy0322]

1 hour ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I just don't understand how Lauren knew she was due the EXACT same day as Jessa. As far as I know she was only a few weeks along so probably wouldn't have had her first scan. How would she have known? Do the Duggars openly discuss the days they had sex?

Before people jump on me, I'm not saying they're lying about the miscarriage. 

If you know the date of your last period and they are fairly standard in spacing I could tell you your due date in about 30 seconds.... it's just an equation. There's a few ways to do it but I like dare of lastboeriod minus three months plus 7 days. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I just don't understand how Lauren knew she was due the EXACT same day as Jessa. As far as I know she was only a few weeks along so probably wouldn't have had her first scan. How would she have known? Do the Duggars openly discuss the days they had sex?

Before people jump on me, I'm not saying they're lying about the miscarriage. 

It is absolutely possible to know that very early on. I miscarried our first pregnancy a day short of six weeks and knew my EDD was within a one day range of Halloween despite not having had an appointment. I used OPKs that time which helped narrow the window down, as I did with my daughter who’s due date I correctly predicted before even having my first appointment. I was off by about three days this pregnancy, which isn’t bad considering I have PCOS, somewhat unpredictable cycles, and wasn’t using OPKs or really tracking at all at the time I conceived. Its actually very easy to calculate on your own or by using an online calculator if you have the right data available and I would assume Lauren did since they seem to have been actively trying. 

I would also guess the shared due date was discovered when SiRen either announced the miscarriage to the family or when Benessa announced their pregnancy to the family (or if they privately told SiRen ahead of time that they were expecting because they didn’t want them taken by surprise while grieving.)

[Satan'sFortress]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Trump was elected when I was about 30 weeks pregnant

I was pregnant with my Fortress#2 on Sept. 11th (THE Sept. 11th) and always felt like it all affected me even more than if I hadn't been pregnant.  It seemed like there were so many widows who were pregnant & then I also had the thought of what kind of future my new baby was going to be born into. Who could have known that we'd still be involved in that war 17+ years later?

My mother said the same thing about being pregnant with me--I was born in 1968 very shortly after MLK and RFK were assassinated, among other horrors of that year---namely Viet Nam. She thought the world as she knew it was ending. 

[VelociRapture]

24 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I was pregnant with my Fortress#2 on Sept. 11th (THE Sept. 11th) and always felt like it all affected me even more than if I hadn't been pregnant.  It seemed like there were so many widows who were pregnant & then I also had the thought of what kind of future my new baby was going to be born into. Who could have known that we'd still be involved in that war 17+ years later?

My mother said the same thing about being pregnant with me--I was born in 1968 very shortly after MLK and RFK were assassinated, among other horrors of that year---namely Viet Nam. She thought the world as she knew it was ending. 

That’s exactly how we felt on election night. It was absolutely horrible to sit there watching the returns come in, especially since we knew just what his election meant and because we were expecting a baby girl. Just knowing the type of person Trump is and how he treats women (in addition to minorities, immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community, etc.) made us feel such dread over the future we would be welcoming her into. It made the entire last month I was pregnant with her even worse than the rest of the pregnancy had been - and it was pretty bad at times.

Now that she is older I’m feeling more hope than dread. She’s such a strong, opinionated, smart, and curious little person. We’re doing what we can to encourage all those traits and to teach her to do what’s right regardless of how hard it is. Same with our son. I feel like it’s especially important to teach him to advocate for others since he’ll be a white male and white males, unfortunately, still hold a disproportionate amount of power here.

I’m really glad I won’t be pregnant during the election next year though. I can actually drink my way through the debates and returns if I have to. But not too much since I’ll still have to take care of two tiny tyrants and a dog the next day. Parents don’t get “sick” days. ?

[AtlanticTug]

7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

It is absolutely possible to know that very early on. I miscarried our first pregnancy a day short of six weeks and knew my EDD was within a one day range of Halloween despite not having had an appointment. I used OPKs that time which helped narrow the window down, as I did with my daughter who’s due date I correctly predicted before even having my first appointment. I was off by about three days this pregnancy,

Yeah, you can know with pretty good certainty. Although at between 6-7 weeks, my ultrasounds were off (+4 days with my son and -2 days with my daughter), despite the fact we basically knew their age to the hour due them being IVF babies. And as time went on, the dates diverged significantly, with my son measuring as much as 3 weeks ahead by close to the end.