Josiah and Lauren 14: Another Grand-Duggar on the Way (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[AtlanticTug]

I feel sorry for the child. I had 2 miscarriages before my son, and then 4 more before my daughter. They do not know about any of them nor do I refer to my kids as #3 and #8. That's just absurd. They do not need to be burdened with the weight on our shoulders. One day when they are older, particularly if there are fertility issues, I can see us talking about it in detail, but what Lauren is doing is totally unhealthy for the child to come, in my opinion. The perfect baby Asa who could never be, the actual baby born will have to listen to this ad nauseum.

[lumpentheologie]

34 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I feel sorry for the child.

I really thought you meant Lauren here, until I read your post a second time.  She's so young still, barely 20.  I can't really judge any 20 year old girl raised in fundamentalism very harshly, especially when she hasn't yet inflicted the worst parts of her upbringing on her own children. We'll see how she is once her daughter is born. 

[Exposedknees]

It has been almost 25 years since I miscarried around 8 weeks, between my 2 daughters. I was not raised in a pregnancy cult. I had literally just found out that I was expecting. My pregnancies were planned, with healthcare, and I was lucky not to have issues having kids according to my plans. My miscarriage impacted me most when I was expecting my second child after the miscarriage, in the form of fear and anxiety. Perhaps I'm callous, because I didn't really think about "#2" after I had my second daughter. That fetus was never really a " child" for me. I was very aggrieved when it happened but I really don't look back and think about what " would have been".  I wanted 2 kids. I got them.

While she is expecting, until their daughter is born, Siren may not be able to let go of "Asa."  I really hope that this new little girl doesn't have the spectre of Asa looking over her every move like some Elf on A Shelf. 

I told my daughters about my miscarriage when they were 4 and 7. Their aunt had just had one and I explained how it had happened to me.  They asked if it was a boy or girl. I said that I didn't know. They asked why; and I said that sometimes things don't work out and it wasn't meant to be a baby, but it can still make you very sad.  They would bring up a question from time to time but it never was a big issue.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Exposedknees
Comma

[SillyDillys]

I miscarried my first pregnancy 3 years ago. It would be grossly unfair to my currant boyfriend, who wasnt the father of that child if I kept referring to our future child as baby #2 and so on. How does that even work? Well I forgot I'm a slut in the fundie eye*eye roll*

I'm just irritated at this point. Like one user pointed out, it isnt healthy for Lauren to put that pressure on this baby. Plus this whole pro life agenda. Call me cynical, but I'm also annoyed at how she says josiah is the best dad already to their two kids. Um? Has he changed diapers? Cleaned vomit? Sleep deprived and gone to work? Given Lauren a day off? Jfc then I am already the best mom for skipping class due to morning sickness and a fucking feeding into a donut craving 

[LittleOwl]

I was a baby that lived in the shadow of a lost pregnancy... and it caused so much damage to me. 

[JesSky03]

The father of 2 thing is starting to get to be a bit much but I still feel like I can Lauren a pass on it until she has her baby. She's so young, pretty ignorant and inexperienced, and the loss is still fresh. If she keeps it up after the baby is born I would start to question her mental health and hope (in vain I'm sure) that she would seek therapy to help her deal with the loss. That's not to say she can never talk about her loss or act like it didn't happen but her live born child shouldn't have to feel second place to that of the lost child. I had two losses before my son, I do still think of them quite often still, but my focus is on my son and baby on the way. They are my here and now. We will tell them about our losses at some point but I will never let them feel like they are living in someone's shadow or that they were my second pick. My mom is really bad about informing us of all her medical history and fertility issues so from a medical standpoint I want to be as open as possible about what we went through but we'll cross those bridges when we get there (especially since there is a genetic condition that could have caused my losses).

[zcccrv]

I think Lauren is selfishly making this all about herself and is robbing both her future daughter and Josiah of something important. Her focus should be on the "new" baby for the new babies sake. And perhaps Josiah would like to show himself as a good father in reality first and then get praised for it. Fathers don't get the chance to bond physically during pregnancy so I think having those "hey, I can do this!" moments with diapers and crying and infant care is generally pretty important to them. It is finally their time to shine and get the recognition for it.

[Glasgowghirl]

I hope when the baby comes she will stop going on about the miscarriage the way she is, it is not doing her Josiah or the new baby any good. If they choose to tell their daughter and any subsequent children about Asa, then that is fine but it should be done in a sensitive way. I know her and Joy are different people and have different personalities but Joy, lost her baby and had to go through labour and deliver Annabell, but she seems to be getting on with her life a lot better than Lauren, I don't doubt behind the scenes their are times her and Austin are both falling apart but she is trying to make the best of her life with Austin and Gideon, no one is saying that Lauren needs to forget about Asa, the same way no one would expect Joy needs to forget about Annabell but their are surely better ways to channel grief than constant social media posts about it.

My oldest nephew, who just turned 13, knows that exactly a year before she found out she was pregnant with him, that she had a missed miscarriage with twins. He also knows the twins did not have the same father that him and his brother have. He asked his mum questions about miscarriages after seeing something on TV and she explained what it was and about the twins, I don't think she would have told him if he hadn't asked questions about miscarriages.

[VelociRapture]

My daughter was born a little over nine months* after my one very early loss. She’ll only be three years old in December, but I have mentioned it around her. It’s never anything I get really emotional about or anything at this point. When it’s mentioned its always as just a matter of fact kind of thing where I acknowledge it happened, but I don’t make a big deal over it. It would feel odd to me not to mention it at all since it was a legitimately difficult experience for me to go through at the time and I feel like being open and factual about it will help my daughter know that miscarriage is actually a pretty common thing to experience. I’ve taken the same approach when talking about her premature birth around her - it was scary and difficult, but many families go through it and the important thing is that she’s healthy and happy. Her prematurity has come up a bit more often lately because she’s getting impatient for Baby Brother to arrive. We have to explain that he has to stay in my tummy until he’s big and strong or else he’ll have to stay at the hospital for a little bit to get better like she did. 

(That plus I have Hypothyroidism and PCOS, both of which could very well have contributed to my loss and my daughter’s premature birth. I want to be open about my medical history because I don’t want my daughter struggling for answers the way I did should she end up with one or both of those conditions.)  

ETA: *I know that probably sounds really weird and fast and like my daughter was super premature, but she wasn’t. I miscarried on February 27th, got pregnant around April 23rd, and I had my daughter on December 5th. She wasn’t due until January 14th, so I was thankfully 34 weeks pregnant at the time. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by VelociRapture

[LittleOwl]

My sister lived for about 8 days, and I was born about 18 months later. My mother clung to me and as a small child I had a lot of issues being left etc.  Mother was suicidal and an alcoholic whilst I was growing up,  and my sister was always mentioned and it was always stressed that I wouldn't be here if she had lived. 

When I was a teenager my anxiety really manifested with bullying at a new school, and I will always remember my mother telling me how my sister was a fighter and I wasn't.  That cycle of never being wanted just kept on going, because my sister was the golden child. 

It took me until I was 25 to finally break free of the cycle.  I'm still struggling with the reversed parent child relationship, but I will get there. 

 

[mstee]

It’s so normal if you have an early miscarriage to have those “what could’ve been” thoughts. I lost an early pregnancy (my first) and was super devastated. I got pregnant shortly thereafter and spent time comparing the pregnancies and being filled with anxiety until my baby was born. But after having my baby, my bitterness over my miscarriage dissipated. I hope that Lauren will experience the same thing because her baby deserves to be the center of attention. I obviously don’t know Lauren and can’t say whether she is using the miscarriage as an attention grab or if she really sees Asa as her first child, but I hope either way that she tones it down once her baby is here. 

[LacyMay]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

When it’s mentioned its always as just a matter of fact kind of thing where I acknowledge it happened, but I don’t make a big deal over it. It would feel odd to me not to mention it at all since it was a legitimately difficult experience for me to go through at the time and I feel like being open and factual about it will help my daughter know that miscarriage is actually a pretty common thing to experience.

Both people I know sufferd a later term loss but this is how they seem to have approached it with their current children. The kids in both know that they had a baby sibling and now that sibling is in heaven and they do something to honor the "birthday" something small and intimate just the parents and kids. 

I think it's healthy that parents have the opportunity to honor the child they lost and healthy for kids to know that loss happens and that's ok. 

I think Lauren's preoccupation with it especially on Social Media is what's concerning. It's one thing for baby siren to know they have a brother or sister in heaven it's another for them grow up feeling like they are in the shadow of a ghost. 

[Dandruff]

41 minutes ago, LacyMay said:

I think Lauren's preoccupation with it especially on Social Media is what's concerning. It's one thing for baby siren to know they have a brother or sister in heaven it's another for them grow up feeling like they are in the shadow of a ghost.

I suspect it'll take her awhile to not be linking little Sirena with Asa, but she's young and may well get past it.  In the meanwhile, it's annoying.

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, LacyMay said:

Both people I know sufferd a later term loss but this is how they seem to have approached it with their current children. The kids in both know that they had a baby sibling and now that sibling is in heaven and they do something to honor the "birthday" something small and intimate just the parents and kids. 

I think it's healthy that parents have the opportunity to honor the child they lost and healthy for kids to know that loss happens and that's ok. 

I think Lauren's preoccupation with it especially on Social Media is what's concerning. It's one thing for baby siren to know they have a brother or sister in heaven it's another for them grow up feeling like they are in the shadow of a ghost. 

Yeah, I agree. Every family and parent needs to take the approach that feels right for them, but there are definitely ways to discuss the topic without making it weird or upsetting. I don’t use the terms “baby” or “child” when I talk about my loss because, medically speaking, there was no baby or child and I don’t want to confuse my daughter since she’s young. There was just the hope and promise of a baby at that point. So I try to keep it simple by saying that mommy was pregnant once before, we were sad when the pregnancy didn’t work out, and now we’re happy because we have her (and her baby brother soon.)  We can go into more detail as she gets older and starts understanding more, but that seems to work for now. The few times I might still feel sad about our loss are moments I keep to myself 

I do think a big part of this is coming from the fact that Lauren is still very young, inexperienced, and was likely raised to think everything would turn out perfectly fine since she was a Godly young woman. I can easily see why the loss might have been so devastating for her based off that alone. I hope she hasn’t been blaming herself since it’s extremely likely she did nothing to cause the loss to happen, but she could be wondering what she did wrong to make God “punish” her in that way. I’d honestly feel pretty badly for her if that’s the case.

I do think that with time and welcoming a (hopefully) healthy child this fall that it’ll get easier for her. If she’s still hyper focused on their loss a few years from now then I’ll find it concerning. Right now though it’s been less than a year since their loss, the Forsyth’s recent loss of Annabel was a horrible reminder that no point in pregnancy is really “safe”, and she’s likely spent a lot of this pregnancy worried about something going wrong again... and she’s had to navigate all of that while in the public eye, likely not having the best social skills (because fundies gonna Fundie), and still being very new to social media. That’s a lot to try and handle all at once. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

An old ex friend of mine miscarried her 2nd baby, she's weirdly obsessively private (to the point she will straight up lie to people she considered her best friends, which is 1 of the many reasons she is an EX friend)  she never told us she was pregnant or that she miscarried, until she happened to mention in passing around what would have been her due date that she should be having  a baby not a rock concert.  She didn't go into detail and we have no idea how far a long she was because she wasn't forthcoming with information, and in this instance we didn't think it proper to pry. But we do know she choose to never get pregnant again, because she was petrified of losing another child. This woman is also so completely neurotic that she stressed her 1st born into early labor (3 weeks early) and he had meconium aspiration and he had to send 3 days in the NICU.  She lost that baby 14 years ago and aside from that one mention to us she never brought it up again.

Lauren reminds me in some ways of this woman,, she's got this holier than thou air about her, she sees the world in a very black and white way and cannot seem to let things go in a healthy way. 

[singsingsing]

5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

An old ex friend of mine miscarried her 2nd baby, she's weirdly obsessively private (to the point she will straight up lie to people she considered her best friends, which is 1 of the many reasons she is an EX friend)  she never told us she was pregnant or that she miscarried, until she happened to mention in passing around what would have been her due date that she should be having  a baby not a rock concert.  She didn't go into detail and we have no idea how far a long she was because she wasn't forthcoming with information, and in this instance we didn't think it proper to pry. But we do know she choose to never get pregnant again, because she was petrified of losing another child. This woman is also so completely neurotic that she stressed her 1st born into early labor (3 weeks early) and he had meconium aspiration and he had to send 3 days in the NICU.  She lost that baby 14 years ago and aside from that one mention to us she never brought it up again.

Lauren reminds me in some ways of this woman,, she's got this holier than thou air about her, she sees the world in a very black and white way and cannot seem to let things go in a healthy way. 

Am I reading this right? It sounds like you blame this woman for causing her child’s death because she was too neurotic, but I know that can’t possibly be the case!

Edited August 31, 2019 by singsingsing

[Cheetah]

22 hours ago, LittleOwl said:

My sister lived for about 8 days, and I was born about 18 months later. My mother clung to me and as a small child I had a lot of issues being left etc.  Mother was suicidal and an alcoholic whilst I was growing up,  and my sister was always mentioned and it was always stressed that I wouldn't be here if she had lived. 

When I was a teenager my anxiety really manifested with bullying at a new school, and I will always remember my mother telling me how my sister was a fighter and I wasn't.  That cycle of never being wanted just kept on going, because my sister was the golden child. 

It took me until I was 25 to finally break free of the cycle.  I'm still struggling with the reversed parent child relationship, but I will get there. 

 

Aww, that really was an unfair burden to have to live with.  I'm glad you are breaking out of that role.

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

An old ex friend of mine miscarried her 2nd baby, she's weirdly obsessively private (to the point she will straight up lie to people she considered her best friends, which is 1 of the many reasons she is an EX friend)  she never told us she was pregnant or that she miscarried, until she happened to mention in passing around what would have been her due date that she should be having  a baby not a rock concert.  She didn't go into detail and we have no idea how far a long she was because she wasn't forthcoming with information, and in this instance we didn't think it proper to pry. But we do know she choose to never get pregnant again, because she was petrified of losing another child. This woman is also so completely neurotic that she stressed her 1st born into early labor (3 weeks early) and he had meconium aspiration and he had to send 3 days in the NICU.  She lost that baby 14 years ago and aside from that one mention to us she never brought it up again.

Seriously, I wanted to say silent, but I want to puke.  I hope this woman dropped kicked you and your "friendship" into oblivion!  

Apparently to you friendship means that introverted "friends" have to spill every last detail of what is going on in their lives.  However much it hurts.  However private they are.  And even if it is none of your damn business.

And they should spill the details no matter however judgmental you are.  You are blaming this person for "stressing her first born into early labor." Well, that is a brand new medical diagnosis.  Just label everyone who went into premature labor as neurotic and to blame.

Perhaps she never got pregnant again after a very traumatic miscarriage (she never told you the details) because pregnancy was life-threatening. 

But you were going to judge her and tell her that she didn't "let go of it in a healthy way" by your standards. My God.  No wonder she didn't talk to you.

And you project all this crap onto Lauren.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Palimpsest

[moreorlessnu]

50 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

  And even if it is none of your damn business.

 

 

 

 

I so want to hug you!!!

I.cannot.stand.people.who.don't.respect.other.people's.privacy.  ?

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Seriously, I wanted to say silent, but I want to puke.  I hope this woman dropped kicked you and your "friendship" into oblivion!  

Apparently to you friendship means that introverted "friends" have to spill every last detail of what is going on in their lives.  However much it hurts.  However private they are.  And even if it is none of your damn business.

And they should spill the details no matter however judgmental you are.  You are blaming this person for "stressing her first born into early labor." Well, that is a brand new medical diagnosis.  Just label everyone who went into premature labor as neurotic and to blame.

Perhaps she never got pregnant again after a very traumatic miscarriage (she never told you the details) because pregnancy was life-threatening. 

But you were going to judge her and tell her that she didn't "let go of it in a healthy way" by your standards. My God.  No wonder she didn't talk to you.

And you project all this crap onto Lauren.

 

 

 

Thank you for this. I hope I just misinterpreted their post, but it really rubbed me the wrong way too. Most people I know had no idea I was pregnant or miscarried until well after my daughter was safely born. I’m pretty sure my own very loved grandparents, aunts, and uncles didn’t know until recently - if they even know at all. It was something that just hurt my husband and I too much to discuss with anyone outside our immediate families for a very long time. Reading that post made my heart hurt for their former friend. No one should feel forced or obligated to share something that can be so painful and personal if they don’t feel ready and it’s not fair to judge them for that.

And the part about stress really upset me. I was under horrific amounts of stress the entire month prior to my daughter’s premature birth due to Trump’s election and there have been times where I honestly worried that I  caused her to be born early because I couldn’t control my anxiety. Its extremely likely that that isn’t the case for me or for this poster’s former friend, but seeing someone type out an accusation like that  just really hurts. 

[Glasgowghirl]

11 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Seriously, I wanted to say silent, but I want to puke.  I hope this woman dropped kicked you and your "friendship" into oblivion!  

Apparently to you friendship means that introverted "friends" have to spill every last detail of what is going on in their lives.  However much it hurts.  However private they are.  And even if it is none of your damn business.

And they should spill the details no matter however judgmental you are.  You are blaming this person for "stressing her first born into early labor." Well, that is a brand new medical diagnosis.  Just label everyone who went into premature labor as neurotic and to blame.

Perhaps she never got pregnant again after a very traumatic miscarriage (she never told you the details) because pregnancy was life-threatening. 

But you were going to judge her and tell her that she didn't "let go of it in a healthy way" by your standards. My God.  No wonder she didn't talk to you.

And you project all this crap onto Lauren.

 

 

 

I had to read it more than once to check that she was for real posting what she posted. I am a private person and while I'm open to friends and family about some things other things I choose to share with certain people. 

The thing about her friend's own behaviour bringing on labour 3 weeks early, which is not actually that uncommon for children to be born 3 weeks early and often the baby is healthy, the baby inhaling the merconium is likely what lead to it being in the NICU and that can happen during any labour and is not that person's fault. 

We don't know for sure if Lauren is just after attention or she is posting how she is feeling, we only know her from a few posts online and segments on an edited TV show. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

My parents had an early miscarriage about a year before having me. I remember learning about it fairly young, and wanting to know if I would've had an older brother or sister. I don't remember how my dad explained it to me, but he told me that sometimes miscarriages happen, and it was sad for them, but they're glad I made it. Later on I learned there was controversy around that pregnancy because when my parents told my mom's family, my grandmother counted back and figured out that the child was conceived (gasp!) out of wedlock.

I hope Lauren's future children don't have to live in the shadow of Asa forever. I understand them having grief, but unfortunately miscarriages happen, and odds are she'll go through it again at some point in her adult life.

ETA just noticed my post count status is "having the dominant uterus". I've actually worked 35+ hours a week for an all-women non profit, and I was the lead uterus. I'd start my period, then everybody else would start within the following days. One time I even texted my boss (who I'm friendly with) and mentioned bad cramps, and within a day her period started. After that she was convinced that her uterus was literate.

Edited September 1, 2019 by VeryNikeSeamstress

[Jana814]

I have a friend from college who had a 17 week miscarriage. She now has 2 kids. I don’t know if your kids know about it. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

My kids are 8 and 10, and in my case, I haven't felt like it's the time yet to mention that I had two early miscarriages. I'm supposing that the topic might come up naturally at some point, and I'll talk about it in terms that are appropriate to whatever their ages are by then.

My mom told me  when I was a teenager about a miscarriage she had, and it helped give me perspective on the likelihood of pregnancy loss(es). I still had emotional distress after my own miscarriages (the first was more emotionally painful, for various reasons), but I knew it was not uncommon, unfortunately. It seems like talking to kids about "big things" in a matter of fact way helps, whether it's talking about miscarriages or colonoscopies.  (Colonoscopies are on my mind from the Rod threads.)

My mom was great about explaining some topics (menstruation, colonoscopies, miscarriages, her cornea transplants) and completely avoided other topics (SEX!!!). I'm trying to learn from both her strengths and her weaknesses. Let me emphasize the word trying.

[Iamtheway]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:03 PM, VelociRapture said:

My daughter was born a little over nine months* after my one very early loss. 

Miniway was born pretty much exactly ten months after my loss and he was born on his due date. Considering we had been trying for almost five years by then getting pregnant twice in less the two months was both weird and amazing. 

On 9/1/2019 at 2:12 AM, VelociRapture said:

No one should feel forced or obligated to share something that can be so painful and personal if they don’t feel ready and it’s not fair to judge them for that.

I really didn’t want to tell anyone about my loss but I felt I had to explain why I didn’t want to come and meet my sister’s newborn baby. That was a horrible time. I wonder how I would have coped if I hadn’t fallen pregnant shortly after. Probably not well.