Josiah & Lauren 13: Drift, Duggars, Drift (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[Lgirlrocks]

My mom had five miscarriages. She had one after my older brother and I were born and four after my younger brother was born. I was 11 when she miscarried the last one, which almost killed her. My parents were very pro life. I had no clue what was really going on. I remember that day though. My mom went to the bathroom and didn’t come out for a long time. She had asked for the phone, my dad may have been at work, then sent my siblings and me to the neighbors. My parents were trying for another child but my dad made the call to stop. I can’t imagine it happening at 19 with no worldly knowledge. She was going to nursing school so she may not have been that sheltered. It must have been so scary. I hope she is getting lots of love from those around her and she is being told she did nothing wrong. 

[singsingsing]

Not to sound like a broken record, but Lauren has never said she has celiac disease. Having a gluten sensitivity is not remotely the same thing as celiac disease. 

[JenniferJuniper]

35 minutes ago, SecularMusic said:

I'm also in perimenopause. Until my early 40s I got my period every 4th Thursday around noon and never experienced PMS. 

Yearerday, I got it for the first time in months and I bled through my clothes which is extra embarrassing bc I work at a middle school where kids notice everything. Luckily, I was wearing a tunic sweater and no one noticed my pants.

i also have acne, cramps and I'm grouchy as heck. At least the hot flashes have stopped. Menopause can't come fast enough

I was every fourth Saturday morning between 7 and 9 am for nearly 30 years. I always though it was a nice, convenient time to plan around.  This all changed in my early 40's when all kinds of craziness came forth.  It probably feels like it will never end.  It will, and if you are like me it will feel liberating.  Those last years were hell.

[Alisamer]

8 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I was every fourth Saturday morning between 7 and 9 am for nearly 30 years. I always though it was a nice, convenient time to plan around.  This all changed in my early 40's when all kinds of craziness came forth.  It probably feels like it will never end.  It will, and if you are like me it will feel liberating.  Those last years were hell.

I had been pretty predictable most of my life, but now I’m in the phase where it might show up any time (and last up to three weeks), or it might be a couple months and then so light it barely counts, who knows? This month so far looks like a “symptoms but no period” month. So far it seems the Prozac I take is preventing the hot flashes - I only get them if I forget to take it. Right now a new symptom is being seriously hungry a lot, which is pretty annoying. 

Menopause cant come soon enough, IMO. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

On the topic of miscarriage, I have a friend who's trying for her second. Last year she spent a total 5 months pregnant, and miscarried twice. I can't even begin to imagine how awful it would be to experience multiple miscarriages, especially in close succession.

[Iamtheway]

On 2/11/2019 at 9:19 PM, VelociRapture said:

I’ve been very open about this on here, but my first pregnancy ended in miscarriage a day shy of the 6 week mark. We went from ecstatic at the thought of having a baby of our own to completely devastated in just a week. To make matters worse, my sister had given birth to her first child two days before I learned I was pregnant. So we were trying to be supportive and happy for them while also struggling with the very genuine grief we felt for our loss. It was a very difficult time in our lives and it took a while before I was able to look at photos of my sister’s family without crying. It'll be exactly three years on February 27th and I still get a bit emotional about it. The only things I have to remember my loss are a positive pregnancy test with the date on it, a hospital bracelet, and discharge paperwork from the ER stating I had a miscarriage*. It’s a very lonely feeling to grieve for a very wanted future you’ll never have. I hope that sharing their experience brings Lauren and Si comfort. 

And I fully agree with others that the loss completely changed how I felt about pregnancy moving forward. I found out I was pregnant with my daughter just over two months after my loss and I spent the entire pregnancy worried that something would go wrong. I was just starting to relax and think things would be fine when she was born six weeks prematurely. If I’m lucky enough to concieve again then I know I’m going to be an even worse mess than last time. 

*I kept one of the positive tests from my second pregnancy as well. I honestly don’t know why I kept them. I guess it just brings me comfort or something. 

I’ve read your story before and I have shared mine before as well but I never realised how similar they are. I miscarried my first pregnancy early on as well, it was the same week my sister gave birth to her second child. I also found out I was pregnant again roughly two months after the loss and that pregnancy resulted in Miniway. 

The miscarriage was devastating when it happened but since we had been trying to concieve for almost five years and had five failed IVF’s at that point there was also a relif in the fact that I actually could get pregnant. 

I don’t feel sad about the miscarriage now. If that pregnancy had stayed I would still have a 5-year old, but a different one and Miniway would not exist. I can now think of all the struggles we had as things we had to go through to get exactly this child, the best child in the world. 

I’m sorry for everyone that has lost a wanted baby and I really hope Lauren gets the support she needs right now. I would not have wanted to share that pain with the whole world. 

[lumpentheologie]

I'm thankful to the posters who have shared their different feelings about miscarriage. One of the things that really bothers me about the pro-birth stance is that every pregnancy is definitely a child and if you miscarry you have to feel like you lost a child and that that child is waiting for you in heaven. Prescribing pretty narrow limits for how you're supposed to feel about pregnancy (or about life events in general) is one of the harmful effects of fundamentalism. Really it's up to each person to feel how they feel and not be judged for that. 

My mother had several miscarriages in the 5 years that my parents tried for a child before I happened, and she also miscarried what would have been my twin. I was definitely a miracle child---when she went to get the D&C after miscarrying she was told that she was still pregnant. I don't get the sense that she thought of those losses as her children, and I don't think of them as lost siblings.  I think of the twin as something that might have happened, but didn't. My very pro-choice mother taught me that just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you're going to have a child, and that pregnancies are pretty much potential children that may or may not actually happen. She talks about her (earlier) abortion in the same way, that it might have been a child but ultimately it wasn't. 

Because of this it's still kind of strange to me when people publicly give names to their fetuses, for my family naming was something that acknowledged the successful birth of the child and its entry into the world of people. But reading here on FJ has given me different perspectives on that, and now I realize that it's an individual decision and not necessarily a pro-birth thing. Having the freedom to feel different ways about pregnancy and miscarriage is also what the pro-choice movement fights for, not just having the choice to terminate or not. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by lumpentheologie

[AprilQuilt]

16 hours ago, finnlassie said:

I'm not sure how common miscarriages at a younger age has been in the past 50 years for example, but it seems more "common" nowadays.

Probably because

a) people talk about it more, whereas before it would rarely have been mentioned in public, 
b) it's easier to diagnose a pregnancy sooner, and
c) advances in birth control mean that more pregnancies are wanted, planned for and may have taken some time in the making. In the past, many women were pretty helpless in the face of their own fertility - if they kept having sex they kept getting pregnant, so I can imagine that for some a miscarriage would have been a relief rather than a tragic loss.

Incidentally my cousin had a miscarriage early in her first trimester quite recently and my dad said to me 'yeah but it wasn't a proper miscarriage, it was just a pregnancy that didn't stick'. I told him not to repeat that in front of her ?

Obviously it's different if you are passing what's obviously a foetus which you've spent longer bonding with and dreaming about, but my own early miscarriages were quite upsetting enough, both physically and emotionally traumatic - I wouldn't make a distinction like that. I assume the fact that he did is a generational thing. His own mother miscarried one of her twins when he was a little boy and he remembers her being wheeled out to an ambulance so maybe he think that all miscarriage needs to be that dramatic to qualify. It does make me query my mum's miscarriages, as I know she lost pregnancies before and after me and my siblings, and that was hard for her. God knows what his take on it was. I hope he didn't tell her it wasn't a proper loss ??

I think I am broadly pragmatic about it all. Sometimes I think about my miscarriages, and what those children would be like now if the pregnancies had progressed, but I don't think of them as my babies. I was sad to lose them and the experience was unpleasant, but I don't feel particularly that they are waiting for me, or that I had to name them, bury them etc. IMO a lot of this stuff is subjective and relative - a pregnancy is a biological function and we choose what import we attach to it. And this is not to say that I have not been amazed and impressed by what can happen in my body, or that I think that people shouldn't love their unborn babies. I just think there are way too many factors for the way we feel about a pregnancy/unborn child to be immutable. I would rather take cues from the parents on how THEY feel rather than impress my opinions about it onto them.

Edited February 13, 2019 by AprilQuilt

[rezski44]

I miscarried between my 2 sons. Since I was still nursing # 1 I was relieved that I could even get pregnant. It was at 10 weeks, there had been no heartbeat, and the doctor called it a blighted ovum. 2 months later I was pregnant with # 2 even though still nursing my first. I had a vacuum suction cleanout which at the time I thought the anti abortion folks would have been upset that the doc even had the machine that obviously had more uses than abortion. Yes I was upset to loose the pregnancy but it had never felt like there was a human in there yet. My 2 sons felt "real". Kind of hard to explain.

[JesSky03]

Referring to the miscarriage is a part of life comments...I just want to say well, yes, and well, no. One miscarriage is pretty common and probably nothing to be worried about. Multiple miscarriages on the other hand can be a signal that something is wrong. I know most doctors like to wait until a woman has had 3 losses before investigating but I am forever grateful to my doctor who didn't hesitate to run a million and one tests after my second loss. We discovered my thyroid problem and multiple blood clotting disorders- all of which can cause miscarriage and other complications during pregnancy. I was started on thyroid meds and blood thinners and went on to get pregnant with my now almost 1 year old. And because we were aware of the blood clotting disorders I was able to be monitored more closely during my pregnancy for growth issues. One of the disorders is genetic and it turns out my sister and my dad has it as well. We didn't know about it when my sister was pregnant with her first and her daughter was unexpectedly born IUGR. They didn't have an explanation back then but now we assume its because of the clotting disorder. After I tested positive I let my sister know (she was pregnant with her second at the time) and she immediately got tested and started on blood thinners and later gave birth to a perfectly healthy baby boy. Based on my own personal experience I don't think I could ever tell someone that having multiple miscarriages is just a normal part of building a family.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I'm sad for them that they've had to go thru this--no one should have to lose a child. In their world, it is truly brutal.  His masculinity has been questioned many times making it worse. But I must say they are still an awkward couple. The kiss picture recently on his Instagram was extremely awkward. Not my favorite Duggar couple at all, but I do have genuine sympathy for their loss.

[SassyPantswithASideofClass]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:19 PM, VelociRapture said:

I’ve been very open about this on here, but my first pregnancy ended in miscarriage a day shy of the 6 week mark. We went from ecstatic at the thought of having a baby of our own to completely devastated in just a week. To make matters worse, my sister had given birth to her first child two days before I learned I was pregnant. So we were trying to be supportive and happy for them while also struggling with the very genuine grief we felt for our loss. It was a very difficult time in our lives and it took a while before I was able to look at photos of my sister’s family without crying. It'll be exactly three years on February 27th and I still get a bit emotional about it. The only things I have to remember my loss are a positive pregnancy test with the date on it, a hospital bracelet, and discharge paperwork from the ER stating I had a miscarriage*. It’s a very lonely feeling to grieve for a very wanted future you’ll never have. I hope that sharing their experience brings Lauren and Si comfort. 

And I fully agree with others that the loss completely changed how I felt about pregnancy moving forward. I found out I was pregnant with my daughter just over two months after my loss and I spent the entire pregnancy worried that something would go wrong. I was just starting to relax and think things would be fine when she was born six weeks prematurely. If I’m lucky enough to concieve again then I know I’m going to be an even worse mess than last time. 

*I kept one of the positive tests from my second pregnancy as well. I honestly don’t know why I kept them. I guess it just brings me comfort or something. 

I wish I could give you the biggest hug my 5ft self could. so giant Internet hugs to you. *HUGS* I am so very sorry for your loss. I know you have probably heard it, maybe have gotten tired of it, but I want you to know I am so sorry. It was NOT your fault!

[Mlissmartin]

On 2/12/2019 at 8:29 AM, Buzzard said:

Except Anna's miscarriage (in fundiedom) could be attributed to the sins of Joshly, similar to Michelle's sin of birth control.  Will they accept that this is just a fact of life and statistical probability given how many fertile females there are, or will they question what is wrong in their lives?

Anna's miscarriage??

 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, Mlissmartin said:

Anna's miscarriage??

Anna had a miscarriage between her first and second children.

[SassyPantswithASideofClass]

To all those who have lost their babies regardless of age; I am so very sorry. I know it sounds like a broken record to say that. It probably is. However I want you to know you matter, your emotions matter.  I might be sassy, and snarky at times. My mouth gets me into trouble at times. I am conservative too but will NEVER push or force my views on anyone. So I am sending each and everyone of you, as big of a hug that this 5ft person can do. *HUGS* If I could I'd bring each of you your favorite meal, and some chocolate. oh and some flowers to help cheer you up. Mostly I would bring some hugs, someone to just sit next to you, if you want to talk; we can, if you don't we don't have to, and I will bring tissues too.

[nolongerIFBx]

On 2/11/2019 at 6:21 PM, anjulibai said:

To those that wonder how fundies react to miscarriages when the couples do everything right, I think it's the same way they react when anything bad happens to the supposedly godly and True Christians:'

They say god is testing them and they just have to have faith; god works in mysterious ways and always has a reason. 

When something bad happens to others, it's a judgment from god. When it happens to them, it's god's will. 

Just one of many double standards they have. 

*I'm not trying to imply that Lauren deserved to miscarry (she didn't), but that neither did Michelle for using birth control. 

I don't believe that they have ever said that the loss of Caleb was punishment for using birth control. They said that the doctor told them that the miscarriage was caused by using birth control. There is an article out there that says they can't prove that the thinning of the uterus lining that is part of the pills effect doesn't cause embryos not to implant: https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2006/PSCF9-06Sullivan.pdf . Doesn't mean they can prove that it does affect implantation, but a doubt is enough for some. Personally, since reproductive endocrinologists put patients on BC as part of their protocol to get them pregnant, I'm going to say that it's a non-issue.

[Four is Enough]

Whether Lauren does or does not have celiac disease is really none of our business. Neither, of course, are the details of her pregnancy and miscarriage. From the interviews I saw, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock is their show income, the hard place, the natural reticence both Josiah and  Lauren seem to have for their intimate details. When asked by one interviewer, "when did it happen?", Josiah merely stated, "It was in the first trimester."

 

I wish they could not be swept along on Duggar Tide. If they want to keep things quiet, they should be able to do so.

[bal maiden]

Weird, robotic interview. They don't seem comfortable with the interview, or each other. 

It strikes me how much Lauren looks like Anna Duggar. 

[singsingsing]

8 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

Weird, robotic interview. They don't seem comfortable with the interview, or each other. 

Probably because the interviewer was weird as hell. This peppy lady alternates between asking them cute, softball questions and then suddenly grilling them about the miscarriage. Yikes. 

[keen23]

3 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Referring to the miscarriage is a part of life comments...I just want to say well, yes, and well, no. One miscarriage is pretty common and probably nothing to be worried about. Multiple miscarriages on the other hand can be a signal that something is wrong. I know most doctors like to wait until a woman has had 3 losses before investigating but I am forever grateful to my doctor who didn't hesitate to run a million and one tests after my second loss. We discovered my thyroid problem and multiple blood clotting disorders- all of which can cause miscarriage and other complications during pregnancy. I was started on thyroid meds and blood thinners and went on to get pregnant with my now almost 1 year old. And because we were aware of the blood clotting disorders I was able to be monitored more closely during my pregnancy for growth issues. One of the disorders is genetic and it turns out my sister and my dad has it as well. We didn't know about it when my sister was pregnant with her first and her daughter was unexpectedly born IUGR. They didn't have an explanation back then but now we assume its because of the clotting disorder. After I tested positive I let my sister know (she was pregnant with her second at the time) and she immediately got tested and started on blood thinners and later gave birth to a perfectly healthy baby boy. Based on my own personal experience I don't think I could ever tell someone that having multiple miscarriages is just a normal part of building a family.

This is very similar to a good friend of mine. Except she had seven miscarriages in four years, between the 8th and 12th week, before finding a treatment that would keep her pregnant. A mix of thyroid, clotting disorder and autoimmune issues were diagnosed. She was able to carry two separate, healthy, pregnancies to term in 18 months, and then was DONE.

[Sullie06]

14 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

My mom had five miscarriages. She had one after my older brother and I were born and four after my younger brother was born. I was 11 when she miscarried the last one, which almost killed her. My parents were very pro life. I had no clue what was really going on. I remember that day though. My mom went to the bathroom and didn’t come out for a long time. She had asked for the phone, my dad may have been at work, then sent my siblings and me to the neighbors. My parents were trying for another child but my dad made the call to stop. I can’t imagine it happening at 19 with no worldly knowledge. She was going to nursing school so she may not have been that sheltered. It must have been so scary. I hope she is getting lots of love from those around her and she is being told she did nothing wrong. 

My mom almost died from her second to last pregnancy as well. She had an ectopic that burst. She lost her tube and a lot of blood but thankfully she came out okay.  My parents had decided to stop trying at that point but then she got pregnant just months later on birth control. I guess my brother just really wanted to make his presence known. I was terrified she was going to die the whole time she was pregnant. Mom got an IUD after that. 

My poor mother had a rough road. She lost her first pregnancy, my older sister, was born at 24-25wks. She lived for a couple days before passing. She wasn't planning on having anymore kids after experiencing that but did end up pregnant with me about  a year later. Then she had my sister and I, 2 miscarriages then the ectopic and then finally my brother.  

9 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I don’t feel sad about the miscarriage now. If that pregnancy had stayed I would still have a 5-year old, but a different one and Miniway would not exist. I can now think of all the struggles we had as things we had to go through to get exactly this child, the best child in the world. 

I feel a similar way about my second loss. I do feel sad for the loss of that life, because I was 12 weeks and we had heard her heartbeat and all of that but if I had her, I would not have had my daughter whom I fell pregnant with 2 months later. My daughter was a twin but one never had a heartbeat so, as cruel as it seems, I don't count that baby as a loss. I feel like it was never really there. 

My first loss though still is devastating to me to this day. I think it's because I could have had that baby and my subsequent kids. I I feel like a little part of me is missing.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I’ve read your story before and I have shared mine before as well but I never realised how similar they are. I miscarried my first pregnancy early on as well, it was the same week my sister gave birth to her second child. I also found out I was pregnant again roughly two months after the loss and that pregnancy resulted in Miniway. 

The miscarriage was devastating when it happened but since we had been trying to concieve for almost five years and had five failed IVF’s at that point there was also a relif in the fact that I actually could get pregnant. 

I don’t feel sad about the miscarriage now. If that pregnancy had stayed I would still have a 5-year old, but a different one and Miniway would not exist. I can now think of all the struggles we had as things we had to go through to get exactly this child, the best child in the world. 

I’m sorry for everyone that has lost a wanted baby and I really hope Lauren gets the support she needs right now. I would not have wanted to share that pain with the whole world. 

We do have pretty similar stories. I’m both sorry and grateful for that, if that makes any sense.

I’m very glad to have a healthy child now, but it was definitely a bit of a struggle for me not to feel guilt over the loss or guilt for being pregnant so quickly after it happened. Having a preemie less than 10 months after the loss just intensified the guilt and worries for me too. Now that we’re trying for our second child those feelings are starting to pop back up a bit again. We’re more prepared this time and I’m being cared for by great Doctors, but it’s still somewhat scary and worrying to think we could have another unexplained loss or unexplained premature birth. 

10 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I'm thankful to the posters who have shared their different feelings about miscarriage. One of the things that really bothers me about the pro-birth stance is that every pregnancy is definitely a child and if you miscarry you have to feel like you lost a child and that that child is waiting for you in heaven. Prescribing pretty narrow limits for how you're supposed to feel about pregnancy (or about life events in general) is one of the harmful effects of fundamentalism. Really it's up to each person to feel how they feel and not be judged for that. 

My mother had several miscarriages in the 5 years that my parents tried for a child before I happened, and she also miscarried what would have been my twin. I was definitely a miracle child---when she went to get the D&C after miscarrying she was told that she was still pregnant. I don't get the sense that she thought of those losses as her children, and I don't think of them as lost siblings.  I think of the twin as something that might have happened, but didn't. My very pro-choice mother taught me that just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you're going to have a child, and that pregnancies are pretty much potential children that may or may not actually happen. She talks about her (earlier) abortion in the same way, that it might have been a child but ultimately it wasn't. 

Because of this it's still kind of strange to me when people publicly give names to their fetuses, for my family naming was something that acknowledged the successful birth of the child and its entry into the world of people. But reading here on FJ has given me different perspectives on that, and now I realize that it's an individual decision and not necessarily a pro-birth thing. Having the freedom to feel different ways about pregnancy and miscarriage is also what the pro-choice movement fights for, not just having the choice to terminate or not. 

I'm not religious, I’m firmly pro choice, I believe my loss was a potential child rather than an actual child, and I still opted to pick a name for the pregnancy we lost in a very early miscarriage. I know it’s weird and I can’t explain why, but it genuinely made me feel a little bit better having an actual name to refer to my loss by. My husband is the only person who knows the name, so it’s a private thing for just the two of us.

[Mama Mia]

5 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Probably because the interviewer was weird as hell. This peppy lady alternates between asking them cute, softball questions and then suddenly grilling them about the miscarriage. Yikes. 

That interviewer was awful! I felt so bad for them, you could tell it was hard to talk about, and it seemed they wanted to share their thoughts, reassure people it wasn’t their fault, etc...and that weird ass lady was just bouncing all over the place and creepily smiling. What a nightmare.

 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

A few pages back somebody commented that Lauren looks like a Disney princess. I'm seeing Belle (based on the original animated Belle, not Emma Watson).

Now I'm imagining Duggars as Disney characters.

Jeremy is definitely Gaston (except with books).

Jana could be Rapunzel based on the fact that she's blond, has lots of domestic hobbies, and is *possibly* being held captive by mother Gothel (I'm looking at you, Jichelle).

I'm not up on my Disney viewing, but I bet we can come up with more. Any Disney buffs out there care to thread drift?

Edited February 14, 2019 by VeryNikeSeamstress

[Sky with diamonds]

7 hours ago, bal maiden said:

Weird, robotic interview. They don't seem comfortable with the interview, or each other. 

It strikes me how much Lauren looks like Anna Duggar. 

That was an awful interviewer, no compassion at all. I truly feel bad for Si and Lauren here.