Duggars by the Dozen 35: Five Months with no Pregnant Duggars. How much longer will it last?

[SweetJuly]

16 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

I don't have any kids yet, so why are kids expensive? I can see nappies, and later on, after-school activities and a smart phone, but what else? 

Biggest cost for many parents: Daycare. Here in Brussels it's between 450 EUR/month for a spot in a public daycare which is hard to obtain, or around 800 EUR/month (or more...) for a private daycare facility. We haven't even looked into hiring a nanny because I doubt we could afford it. If we want to send LittleJuly to private school, we can expect to pay around 1200 EUR/month from the age they start kindergarden here (2.5 years). These costs will only increase as the child grows up.

We also have to use our savings to allow me to stay home for a bit longer than the official max of 7 months parental leave. It will cost us at least 500 EUR/month as we have fixed expenses (rent, car, etc) and the Belgian state is not very generous.

Other costs: Baby equipment. We really didn't buy every gadget available, but the essentials such as a car seat, carrier, crib, high chair, clothes (they grow so fast!) etc. are expensive enough even if we got some items second-hand. Doctor's appointments and vaccines. Some of them are (partially) reimbursed, others have to be paid privately.

As I am unable to breastfeed fully and LittleJuly has cow milk protein allergy, we had to start using rather expensive specialised formula (120-150 EUR/month) to supplement.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

[Meggo]

9 hours ago, sleepy_doggos said:

I'll throw my Catholic grandma in the mix. She was 1 of 14 kids and only the 2nd girl! Unfortunately a badly burst appendicitis when she was a teenager left her unable to bear children. She and my grandpa adopted 4 kids and I believe my mom was one of almost 50 first cousins from her side alone.

my husband is one of 10 (there likely would have been more - but his mom had a hysterectomy after #10. I forget the age ranges - but I have nieces and nephews ranging from 40 years old to 5 years old. And then there are the great nieces and nephews who range from 10 to... infant. 

My son - granted - he was late to the party - is like Grandkid number 20 or 21? He has a cousin who is a few months younger than he is and those two are the last of that "set". But he regularly gets hand me downs from his actual cousins kids - who are older than he is. 

In my family - people were in age groups. Like there wasn't much of an age spread between all my aunts & uncles so they were all "the grown ups". In Hubs family - I am closer in age to some of the nieces & nephews than I am to most of my sister in laws. 
And it's kind of handy because whereas my parents & hubs mom can't babysit our son really (because they're in their late 70s and a little frail to be dealing with a busy 5 year old) - Hubs older sister has grandkids slightly older than our son so for her it's no big deal to add one more kid into the mix and she dotes on him. (Well - they all do really) 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, SorenaJ said:

I don't have any kids yet, so why are kids expensive? I can see nappies, and later on, after-school activities and a smart phone, but what else? 

Actually, there are cheap diapers brands, and cheap smartphones. Kids are expensive because even if you buy everything second-hand, the most expensive things are not included there. For example, a car seat. It is unsafe to buy second hand or to get an used one, unless you are 100% sure this car seat hasn't being involved in a car crash (even soft car crashes are suppose to damage it). The safest car seats are expensive.

Food. Breastfeeding is free but if it doesn't work, formula is expensive. And teenagers eat A LOT.

Shoes. Second hand ones are not healthy for their feet development. The best shoes are leather ones. Not cheap. And those feet grow fast!

Teeth. Dentist. Braces, treatments, cavities, etc. 

Medical expenses. I know it depends on what country are you living in. But even in my free-healthcare country, a lot of medicines and some treatments are not covered or are poorly covered and you need to pay for extras. 

School. Again, depends on your country. But usually even in public schools they need to purchase books or to pay for excursions, etc.

Daycare is painfully expensive.

Extracurricular activities may be cheap or expensive.

College. 

If you have a special needs child, it gets worse financially speaking.

But yes, people manage to do it. You don't need to be rich. All these expenses don't come together! 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Speaking of Canadian's who couldn't stop having babies I refer you to this family which so astounded me I needed to document it on my hard hitting news blog ...

 

[Alisamer]

I think people should choose to have kids when it is right for them. Early, late, oops, never, whatever works for you. You do you.

That said, please please please take a look at the older women in your family! Find out when menopause started for the majority of them. Because in my family, the average age for complete menopause is 38, and often way before that. Both of my younger sisters are in full menopause now, and have been since they were about 34-35. Mine is taking it's sweet time, I'm 44 and just starting to have real symptoms in the past year. 

My sister got married about 10 years ago, very early thirties, and couldn't convince her husband that they needed to start right away trying for kids. So when they did try a couple years in, it was too late, even with fertility help. Their only option at that point would be donated eggs, and be super costly. Now she can't get him to get it together for a home study for adoption, so still no kids. Which honestly I don't think is a bad thing (they've got other issues including medical ones that would make having a young child extremely difficult at the moment), but is sad for them as they did want kids. I think she's still hoping, but as she's 40 that can limit adoption options too.

I know my family is strange, as menopause comes so early for us. But do look at your family history. Waiting may not be an option for everybody. While some women can have babies on into their late 40s, for my family that's really not possible for most of us. Early 30s is about as late as it gets, and even that's iffy.

[singsingsing]

32 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Speaking of Canadian's who couldn't stop having babies I refer you to this family which so astounded me I needed to document it on my hard hitting news blog ...

 

Extreme, but still, so French Canadian. I mean, some of these girls got married at 14 or 15 and if they survived to the age of 45, well... you can guess how many potential babies that is.

[BachelorToTheRapture]

I'm currently 26, and there's no chance I'll be having kids anytime soon. At this point my health problems are bad enough that I couldn't parent, frequently I can't even get myself dinner from a drive through and need my husband to do it for me. Even if my body could handle pregnancy and childbirth, with my pain, fatigue, and vomiting, I couldn't be there for my kid and I would not be okay with that. I hope that I can find answers and feel better and have kids when I'm older, but at this point it's just not something I can do. Given how long even scheduling tests, much less getting answers takes I assume if I'm ever able to have kids I will be at least 30, and I hope that I will be okay as a slightly older parent. 

[AliceInFundyland]

And another note about the hypothetical child I don’t have, and know I couldn’t give up....I’d be doing it on a budget with no hand-me-downs, i don’t have a network of mommy friends or barely anyone to baby shower me. My family is far away. So it would be a huge financial choice for the next twenty odd years. I’d be picking parenting over ....traveling or general self-indulgence most likely.

I think these musings stem more from a midlife crisis then genuine tears over pregnancy. I am certainly getting surgery to avoid cancer. But I when I was with the guy I thought I could marry I contemplated the possibility that we could parent. I really did. And now I don’t know. There is a cap on that window. I suppose that is not “the plan.” I have never been sure what “the plan” was and that is frustrating,

Eh. I’m rambling on and have to be officially back at my job in one hour. Whatever part of the plan this was, I think it’s cooked.

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

5 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

TL;DR: Have kids when you feel ready. And when you do, don't be afraid. You got this

aw, thanks for the little pep talk! haha. honestly mommyhood is such a foreign idea to me, and social media makes it all the stranger - i friggin LOVE squee-ing at my friends' and colleagues' adorable minis, but it reminds me that it's a big "hell. fucking. no." for me for now xD 

[Carm_88]

My Dad has 53 first cousins on his Dad's side of the family. My grandfather had 8 full siblings and 1 half sibling. One of his full siblings didn't have any children and the same with his half sibling. On my grandmother's side of the family, I think he has 15 cousins. My grandmother was one of three girls, all three born in 4 years, there were some complications with my grandmother's birth and my 21 year old great grandmother was unable to have any more children.

I have 34 cousins on my Mom's side and 18 on my Dad's side. Welcome to Newfoundland, big families are common, and even more common is that absolutely everyone is small areas are related, everyone is a cousin, like a cousin, pretty much a family member and so on.

[Cheetah]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Actually, there are cheap diapers brands, and cheap smartphones. Kids are expensive because even if you buy everything second-hand, the most expensive things are not included there. For example, a car seat. It is unsafe to buy second hand or to get an used one, unless you are 100% sure this car seat hasn't being involved in a car crash (even soft car crashes are suppose to damage it). The safest car seats are expensive.

Food. Breastfeeding is free but if it doesn't work, formula is expensive. And teenagers eat A LOT.

Shoes. Second hand ones are not healthy for their feet development. The best shoes are leather ones. Not cheap. And those feet grow fast!

Teeth. Dentist. Braces, treatments, cavities, etc. 

Medical expenses. I know it depends on what country are you living in. But even in my free-healthcare country, a lot of medicines and some treatments are not covered or are poorly covered and you need to pay for extras. 

School. Again, depends on your country. But usually even in public schools they need to purchase books or to pay for excursions, etc.

Daycare is painfully expensive.

Extracurricular activities may be cheap or expensive.

College. 

If you have a special needs child, it gets worse financially speaking.

But yes, people manage to do it. You don't need to be rich. All these expenses don't come together! 

I think Melissa pretty much covered it but let me see if I can add anything -

*if your family likes to eat out,  multiply what you spend at a restaurant by 2 (for 2 teens... less for smaller kids, more if you have more than 2 kids, etc).

*if you like to travel, every admission ticket to everything you need to also purchase for the kids.  Plus you need to get a hotel room big enough.  If you fly you have to pay for their tickets.  

*Things like speech therapy, occupational therapy, counselors, etc - if you are in the US these sorts of things may or may not be covered by your insurance or your school system or they might be partially covered but you still have a co-pay.  My kids are pretty healthy overall but we still needed speech for one kid for a year (that one was covered by the state), OT for one for a year (partially covered by insurance but we had a copay), etc.  Also orthodontia was over $4000/kid even with insurance.

*If you have a child who has more serious needs, it might mean one parent changing their career plan to be able to devote their time to driving them to and helping with therapies.  If your family budget relied on 2 earners this can be difficult.   We have friends whose son now thankfully is in remission from pediatric cancer but they really got socked for a while because one of them kept having to take time off when he was in the hospital. 

*College in the US - I know many parents just opt out of covering this for their kids but if you want to be able to get your kids a college education, it's like $120,000 to $280,000 per kid now for 4 years.  Less if you qualify for financial aid but you can't just say, 'oh, my kid will get a soccer scholarship' and think that will cover it.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I don't have any kids yet, so why are kids expensive? I can see nappies, and later on, after-school activities and a smart phone, but what else? 

“Nappies” gives away that you’re in the UK. In the US, there’s no free healthcare or daycare, not much subsidized housing or transportation, and no free higher education. Babies turn into graduate students. The US middle class finds it hugely expensive to raise children. It’s perhaps not as bad (or differently bad) for families where the mom doesn’t work and the parents don’t expect the children to go to college.

[OyToTheVey]

11 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

People that complain about women becoming older moms whether it be through natural means, fertility treatments, or adoption, are trying to hold women back. The scare tactics and guilt that people throw on a woman for her choices amaze me!!! Many love to scare women with the risks of autism and Downes Syndrome (even twins) of a later pregnancy.

Women are smart enough to understand and read the studies of the facts and the risks of a pregnancy.  Pregnancy -at any age- will always come with risks. I trust the published medical research on Pubmed as well as the opinions of doctors that have done fellowships in fertility based endocrinology and practice as fertility doctors. Many women can get pregnant after 35 and many will need help with fertility treatments. Some women can get pregnant in their 40s but some are using eggs that they’ve had frozen. Women that choose to delay their pregnancies are usually ok with either a natural pregnancy, spending money on fertility treatments & freezing their eggs, or adopting. Adoption is a beautiful thing.

I trust the decision a woman makes on timing her family and let’s not judge women for making the decision of when and how they go about having a family.

If I know I’m not going to have babies until after 35, I will freeze my eggs and plan to pursue IVF (and budget accordingly) along with not being opposed to adopting.

I’d like to have two kids and I can see myself adopting as well. 

I'm not trying to hold anyone down but as a child of older parents, I can honestly say it's very noticeable. My friends worry about themselves, meanwhile, I worry if mine take their meds and take care of themselves. My friends grandparents are my parents age. 

[QuiverDance]

 I had my kids at 35 and 37, so I guess I failed yet another FreeJinger test.  Oh well!  

Seriously though, I don't seem to be significantly older than any other moms I run into.  

[AliceInFundyland]

@luv2laugh I really don’t think anyone is criticizing you for having a personal plan. People are just sharing experiences of all kinds. Like we do about Every Damn Thing on FJ. Sometimes you seem quick to take offense, like we are judging you....like other people in your real world might do? And I don’t think that’s the case. (I’m just thinking about the other day with the Jill/wrinkles/Botox thing).

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On Duggar Pregnancies:

I wonder what kind of bonus JB would get from TLC if ALL the married couples have a baby in the same calendar year?

Another thought:

Or, if the twins marry other twins in a double ceremony?

[Mama Mia]

25 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

 I had my kids at 35 and 37, so I guess I failed yet another FreeJinger test.  Oh well!  

Seriously though, I don't seem to be significantly older than any other moms I run into.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one has remotely implied that anyone failed any sort of “test” by having children at any particular age. The age people have kids varies a great deal. People are simply sharing experiences. 

[Screamapillar]

6 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I don't have any kids yet, so why are kids expensive? I can see nappies, and later on, after-school activities and a smart phone, but what else? 

By the time my two kids reach kindergarten the amount I will have spent on nanny/daycare/preschool will be equal to me having bought each of them a new BMW.

[Rachel333]

Fun? fact: Mick Jagger, who is 75 now, has a great-granddaughter who is older than his youngest child. Jagger became a great-grandfather in 2014 and his youngest child was born in 2016. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm not trying to hold anyone down but as a child of older parents, I can honestly say it's very noticeable. My friends worry about themselves, meanwhile, I worry if mine take their meds and take care of themselves. My friends grandparents are my parents age. 

There is good and bad points to any age you have kids but, the above is valid point of older parents. 

My dad was 45 when I was born and at an age where most of my friends are dealing with their aging parents mine died when I was a young adult and didn’t have them around.

22 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Fun? fact: Mick Jagger, who is 75 now, has a great-granddaughter who is older than his youngest child. Jagger became a great-grandfather in 2014 and his youngest child was born in 2016. 

You beat me, That’s one of my favorite fun facts.   

[AussieKrissy]

12 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@luv2laugh pregnancy is a women issue, but parenthood is (usually) for men and women and it gets harder for both as they got older. You think parenting is the same no matter your age and downvoted me for saying that in my experience (me and my acquitances, already parents) isn't. I'm not against having kids in your forties, I'm only saying energy (even health) is not the same, and it gots worse as they kids approach teen ages. Not for women, but for both men and women.

I'll be 50 when my youngest will be 13. I chose that. And I'm happy with that. But by any means I expect it to be easy. I have also a teenager now and I know I won't be as energetic and focused in a decade, with my menopause and my husband's andropause.

 

I too, will be 50 when my daughter is 13. Holy hell, I am not looking forward to that.

I spent my 'extreme fertile' years, in stupid relationships and single. 

When I got to my early to mid thirties, I could definitely hear my biological clock ticking. 

I gave up my dream of the traditional white picket fence scenario and pursued donor IUI then full IVF, (so i could have some "young" embryos in the bank). 

I had six to work with and got one baby and no 36 year old me embryos left in the bank.

I thought that was a sign to just have one. I want two. So next month two weeks shy of my 40th I am going in to have IUI to try for a second. I am worried about age related defects. The donor is a young age and my doctor says that helps.

Pros on  having a baby later in life. I have lots of life experience. I have gotten all (most) of my travelling out of the way. I am fairly financially settled. Everyone has finished having babies, I got all their stuff.

Cons Yeah I am old and not as spry as I used to be.  Oh puberty and menopause, that is gunna blow. Worrying my daughter wont get me for as long as a young mother would. I lost my Mum at 21. Any age is to soon but i would have liked longer. 

There is a pressure by society to have babies before 35. All of my older friends though have  had doctors tell them that they are less likely to fall after 35 (none wanted to btw) But all of these doctors pushed for birth control until late 40's 50. One just put a rod in my friend that last 5 years (she is 45) and said this should be your last one. 

My friend just fell naturally 6 months shy of 40. I am hopeful I am the same.

I think fertility way back when in older age may have been more likely and frequent in my opinion because Women were generally fitter and ate better. No Maccas back then and  or office jobs. 

I have read articles (possible fear mongering) about how women coming into child bearing ages now are going to need more and more fertility intervention because of the rise in chlamydia. Girls not knowing they have it and it affecting their fertility.

Anyway that is my morning thoughts lol. 

 

[viii]

This thread stresses me the fuck out. I'm 33, and haven't been in a long-term relationship in YEARS. I want children so bad, but at this point in my life... I just don't see it happening. That makes me sad. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

4 minutes ago, viii said:

This thread stresses me the fuck out. I'm 33, and haven't been in a long-term relationship in YEARS. I want children so bad, but at this point in my life... I just don't see it happening. That makes me sad. 

I adopted. Never regretted it. Was married to an asshole, moved on. Would gladly marry again, but did ok raising two great kids on my own.

[HurricaneBells]

5 hours ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

I hope that I can find answers and feel better and have kids when I'm older. I assume if I'm ever able to have kids I will be at least 30, and I hope that I will be okay as a slightly older parent. 

First sending good wishes and vibes your way and hope you regain your good health. Second, I was 33 when I fell, 34 when I gave birth and I am 110% certain I'm not the only one here. Sure it's tiring and I wish I had the energy of my youth but lots of positives to being an older parent too. You will be fine, don't let age worry you in that sense

14 minutes ago, viii said:

This thread stresses me the fuck out. I'm 33, and haven't been in a long-term relationship in YEARS. I want children so bad, but at this point in my life... I just don't see it happening. That makes me sad. 

Don't give up on it. I thought the same thing at 32 and here I am at 37 with a 4 year old and 38 year old. Ha! Just don't let it stop you being a mum if that's what you truly want, look into your options. Xo

[Iamtheway]

Some people on this thread talk like kids will just show up whenever you want them to. And if they don’t you can ”just” do ivf or adopt. 

I think everyone should do exactly what they feel is right for them and their family but there is a point to not waiting too long if you know you want children. Fertility does go down with age and it can be nice to have some time if it doesn’t go to plan. We tried for five years and did five failed ivf:s before we had Miniway. Luckily we live in Sweden and didn’t have to pay much money for all that treatment, but it cost us a lot emotionally and there is nothing ”just” about it. 

It’s amazing that there is ivf and what can be done medically to help people with fertility issues, but ivf is no walk in the park. There is so much medicin, so many, many needles and all come with their own different fun side effects. There are so many exams and so much pain. It is physically and mentally draining and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

I havn’t adopted but I’ve read a lot about it and have friends that have and there is nothing ”just” about that process either. 

I do hope you all get all the children you want when you want them but make sure you give yourself enough time for a plan b and c. ❤️